Which is why most people refuse to do greed runs. I know I do. And there'll always be ninjas breaking the agreement. To fight those a greed only or need only option would be welcome. I prefer the 2nd option.
A better idea would be to get rid of the Greed option all together. Only have Need and Pass and automatically pass when it cannot be used it.
There is no need to support greed when most cultures see it as a bad and immoral attitude.
Oh greed can stay. It's a good setting when you play with guildies/friends who already have BiS gear and are just there to sell the drops. And I'm not in favor of pass when it can't be used. That's where someone can make money or save for an alt. So I'd prefer roll instead of pass. Other than that, I agree.
Or use for a companion (like any non-DC with an Ioun Stone).
It's been a while since I last bothered doing a Dungeon, but an item won with Need should become Bound to the winning character. That would probably reduce (Ninja)Needing for profit, as 4-6k Unrefined AD from Salvage is likely not worth getting kicked for anyone who would otherwise Need for profit during a Greed run.
I'm with those who suggest getting rid of the two options. Everybody gets roll/pass, and if you win you take the item. "But what if I *needed* that item and you can't use it?" Tough. It's mine now and it's none of your business what I plan to do with it. You will also win things you don't need which you can sell to buy the things you do need. That's the free market at work. Try again, better luck next time. The evolution of Roll/Pass into Need/Greed/Pass was fomented by one thing only: whining.
The end result is that now there is no end of confusion, you can't assume anything anymore. "Greed run" means like 3 or 4 different things to different people, and they all expect you to know what they think it means without telling you. And in such cases the Need button is simply a way to take advantage of others who have agreed to click Greed on everything precisely so that everyone gets a fair shot at every piece of loot.
The only other solution is individual drops--obviating the need for any sort of roll/pass system and putting an end to the whining and the cheating. I think this will simply lead to a flood of items on the AH and make things far too cheap. If *every* wizard gets a Formorian Talisman from Malabog Castle, the prices will be driven through the floor in no time and then nobody will have to do Malabog Castle. If they adopt such a system, the drops would have to become far less frequent... maybe you do Valindra's Tower 3 or 4 times for 1 drop.
I think bind-on-need is silly, it's just more BS to hamstring a system designed to appease crybabies in the first place. Ditch it and go back to Roll/Pass, and if you don't get the bow you really needed, put on your big boy pants and try again.
What if someone actually NEEDS that item, it may not occur to you but people often go in dungeons to get gear for their characters.
It was already suggested to make "need" rolls bind the item.
They can leave or not join in the first place, an agreed greed run is what we are asking for
To clear things up, if greed is agreed upon, most ppl I know greed on epic boss loot with need option for one class. The rest is fair game.
Why not need if you can? Because if you stack GWFs or CWs, to make speedruns they are screwed. CW item drops, 2, 3 or 4 ppl with need option, you are the DC, you get the item. Fair? No. And please dont try the argument screw CWs/ GWFs, they are OP, because thats just lame.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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lolssi83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 51
edited March 2014
Fine if they wanna add greed run option. Personally I wouldn't ever join.
I like to have chance to upgrade my gear if I'm gonna endure dungeon run. And so far it seems gear is last thing I'm gonna use money on auction house. Then again I've just been playing few weeks maybe I'll grow bitter later on ( so far only good experiences).
Do people really run dungeons to gear up from boss drops? I'm honestly curious, I've never seen anything drop for my class (HR) from a boss, all my gear came from dungeon delve chests. I can't imagine how many runs you would have to do to get your set from boss drops, with DD I've mostly gotten the set piece from the first run, most runs I've had to do for the piece is 4.
Do people really run dungeons to gear up from boss drops? I'm honestly curious, I've never seen anything drop for my class (HR) from a boss, all my gear came from dungeon delve chests. I can't imagine how many runs you would have to do to get your set from boss drops, with DD I've mostly gotten the set piece from the first run, most runs I've had to do for the piece is 4.
No. It is all about greed and how greedy players can get more. Best ignore the topic. It is fine that players who need an item get to go first.
No. It is all about greed and how greedy players can get more. Best ignore the topic. It is fine that players who need an item get to go first.
So if a few full equiped CWs run T 2 multiple times to help a guildmember or a friend and ask for a greedrun, so they might get something out of this exept some gear for their collection system, they are greedy. If I want to make AD I do GG DK, CN, VT 2/2 or something like that. If greedrun is agreed upon and you need, you get kicked, because you are the greedy person.
No. It is all about greed and how greedy players can get more. Best ignore the topic. It is fine that players who need an item get to go first.
Okay, well I "need" that T2 set piece for the AD. So, I'll just click on "Need" the next time it drops. Thanks for clearing that up! (Some people think like this...)
The need/greed/pass system is completely HAMSTER. There only needs to be greed and pass and nothing else.
I can think of something else that's HAMSTER here.
The need/greed system EVOLVED, player actions LED to the creation of this system. Back when i started MMOs there wasn't such system and when a piece of loot dropped people were typing in chat "n" or "g" before rolling and yes, this was with pugs.
There was a time when saying you "need an item to sell it" was the most HAMSTER thing possible and you were laughed at by the whole server, here is just the norm.
Ofc in order for such a system to succeed your playerbase must understand the difference between these 2 words, neverwinter isn't ready for this.
In other MMOs a raid is normal for T2 dungeons, so ppl had various loot systems to gear up their raidmembers equaly, but in PUGs you take what you can get, if nothing else is agreed upon. Exeption BOP gear, you cant use at all. I play MMOs for years and I never heared, that it is usual to run PUG, to gear up randoms, sorry.
What is to stop a 17k CW from needing on that High Vizier because he wants an extra 500k diamonds?
Isn't that why this topic came up? Because too many people need on items they won't use and just try and ninja?
So let's assume that this 17k CW is a bad and evil player who just wants to have your stuff. Well, can he press Need when it is an item for another class? No, he cannot. So there you go! He got stopped. That bad and evil CW is unable to get his filthy hands on what other classes may need.
If it all was just Greed then this bad and evil CW could press Greed any time and take away what other classes may need. Unless you are both CWs, but then you still have an equal chance to get filthy rich and both be bad and evil.
Stay frosty.
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
edited April 2014
When I was gearing up my CW, prior to joining my guild, I would always ask ahead of time, before we kicked off a greed run:
"Hey guys, I'm trying to gear up and looking for item "x", if it drops, do you mind if I "Need"? If they say yes, great, if no, I decide quickly if I want to run with them anyway, and abide by the wishes of the group. I never really had much of an issue to be honest. You can kind of tell right off, by asking something like that, the type of people you are running with, and that often makes the choice to stick it out or find another group pretty easy. After all, I'm there to gear up my character, why shouldn't I "Need" if I need the item. What I won't do is "Need" just because I can. Though, when people start picking up items mid fight, and they've been asked not to do that any more, I might need out of spite.
Now I run with my guild so it's never an issue, we Need on any enchants, materials etc. Greed on all gear, unless it's an upgrade for you. Honestly, I try to run DD runs with newer members that need gear, so I typically just "Pass" on all gear anyway, figuring they either need the gear, or the AD they can get from it. Now, if something drops that is worth a significant amount of AD, and no one actually needs it, we'll sell it on the AH and split the profit.
The amusing thing here is that the dungeon itself decides who wins. If you're just running content for AD, just roll need wherever you can and let the dungeon decide who gets the AD.
The fact that certain classes gear is worth way, way more than other classes is the problem. Compare the prices for a High Vizier's chest piece to, say, any GF T2 chest piece. THAT is the overarching issue. If every class was equally value added their gear would all cost roughly the same. Since that is not the case, you should probably just play the class who's gear is the most valuable to secure a need roll on that gear if it drops.
Unsurprisingly, this is one more reason why everyone should play a CW. 5x CW can clear 100% of the content with ease, and any drops that appear are by definition greed unless it's CW gear. At that point, everyone could hit need and it would be identical to hitting greed.
And you wonder why the meta game is what it is. Play CW or go home is the take away lesson of Neverwinter PvE.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Fixed that for you. First time is free. And reading through this thread only strengthens my resolve never to do greed runs. Once upon a time it was normal to let the person that could use the drop have it. But this community is all about greed. Me, Me, Me and screw everyone else. Bah. Thank Ao I don't need any of you greed runners to complete my dungeons. And I'd quit before being forced to run with 'ya.
No, it's the game. The community believes what it believes because it's the truth.
I, for one, completely advocate hitting Need any time you can. The dungeons are needlessly RNG with a gateway requirement to get a chest that may, or may not, contain anything remotely useful.
CN's last chest dropping T1 garbage is such a joke that no one even bothers to run it during DD, especially with widely known exploits in that dungeon. (Ever wonder why during DD you see hundreds of people entering and leaving CN? Yeah.)
And guess what the best players do to clear CN the fastest for the only reliable way to get a drop? You guessed correctly if you said 5x CW.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
This is ridiculous, the party modes has such options : "Round-Robin", "FFA", "Need or Greed", "Party-leader decides". I don't see how hard it could be if they add 1 more option to give the item to a random player.
Comments
A better idea would be to get rid of the Greed option all together. Only have Need and Pass and automatically pass when it cannot be used it.
There is no need to support greed when most cultures see it as a bad and immoral attitude.
It's been a while since I last bothered doing a Dungeon, but an item won with Need should become Bound to the winning character. That would probably reduce (Ninja)Needing for profit, as 4-6k Unrefined AD from Salvage is likely not worth getting kicked for anyone who would otherwise Need for profit during a Greed run.
The end result is that now there is no end of confusion, you can't assume anything anymore. "Greed run" means like 3 or 4 different things to different people, and they all expect you to know what they think it means without telling you. And in such cases the Need button is simply a way to take advantage of others who have agreed to click Greed on everything precisely so that everyone gets a fair shot at every piece of loot.
The only other solution is individual drops--obviating the need for any sort of roll/pass system and putting an end to the whining and the cheating. I think this will simply lead to a flood of items on the AH and make things far too cheap. If *every* wizard gets a Formorian Talisman from Malabog Castle, the prices will be driven through the floor in no time and then nobody will have to do Malabog Castle. If they adopt such a system, the drops would have to become far less frequent... maybe you do Valindra's Tower 3 or 4 times for 1 drop.
I think bind-on-need is silly, it's just more BS to hamstring a system designed to appease crybabies in the first place. Ditch it and go back to Roll/Pass, and if you don't get the bow you really needed, put on your big boy pants and try again.
They can leave or not join in the first place, an agreed greed run is what we are asking for
Why not need if you can? Because if you stack GWFs or CWs, to make speedruns they are screwed. CW item drops, 2, 3 or 4 ppl with need option, you are the DC, you get the item. Fair? No. And please dont try the argument screw CWs/ GWFs, they are OP, because thats just lame.
I like to have chance to upgrade my gear if I'm gonna endure dungeon run. And so far it seems gear is last thing I'm gonna use money on auction house. Then again I've just been playing few weeks maybe I'll grow bitter later on ( so far only good experiences).
So if a few full equiped CWs run T 2 multiple times to help a guildmember or a friend and ask for a greedrun, so they might get something out of this exept some gear for their collection system, they are greedy. If I want to make AD I do GG DK, CN, VT 2/2 or something like that. If greedrun is agreed upon and you need, you get kicked, because you are the greedy person.
The need/greed/pass system is completely HAMSTER. There only needs to be greed and pass and nothing else.
What is to stop a 17k CW from needing on that High Vizier because he wants an extra 500k diamonds?
Isn't that why this topic came up? Because too many people need on items they won't use and just try and ninja?
Okay, well I "need" that T2 set piece for the AD. So, I'll just click on "Need" the next time it drops. Thanks for clearing that up! (Some people think like this...)
I can think of something else that's HAMSTER here.
The need/greed system EVOLVED, player actions LED to the creation of this system. Back when i started MMOs there wasn't such system and when a piece of loot dropped people were typing in chat "n" or "g" before rolling and yes, this was with pugs.
There was a time when saying you "need an item to sell it" was the most HAMSTER thing possible and you were laughed at by the whole server, here is just the norm.
Ofc in order for such a system to succeed your playerbase must understand the difference between these 2 words, neverwinter isn't ready for this.
Initially and ideally, it is not HAMSTER. A horrible community (which most MMO has) makes it so.
If it all was just Greed then this bad and evil CW could press Greed any time and take away what other classes may need. Unless you are both CWs, but then you still have an equal chance to get filthy rich and both be bad and evil.
"Hey guys, I'm trying to gear up and looking for item "x", if it drops, do you mind if I "Need"? If they say yes, great, if no, I decide quickly if I want to run with them anyway, and abide by the wishes of the group. I never really had much of an issue to be honest. You can kind of tell right off, by asking something like that, the type of people you are running with, and that often makes the choice to stick it out or find another group pretty easy. After all, I'm there to gear up my character, why shouldn't I "Need" if I need the item. What I won't do is "Need" just because I can. Though, when people start picking up items mid fight, and they've been asked not to do that any more, I might need out of spite.
Now I run with my guild so it's never an issue, we Need on any enchants, materials etc. Greed on all gear, unless it's an upgrade for you. Honestly, I try to run DD runs with newer members that need gear, so I typically just "Pass" on all gear anyway, figuring they either need the gear, or the AD they can get from it. Now, if something drops that is worth a significant amount of AD, and no one actually needs it, we'll sell it on the AH and split the profit.
The fact that certain classes gear is worth way, way more than other classes is the problem. Compare the prices for a High Vizier's chest piece to, say, any GF T2 chest piece. THAT is the overarching issue. If every class was equally value added their gear would all cost roughly the same. Since that is not the case, you should probably just play the class who's gear is the most valuable to secure a need roll on that gear if it drops.
Unsurprisingly, this is one more reason why everyone should play a CW. 5x CW can clear 100% of the content with ease, and any drops that appear are by definition greed unless it's CW gear. At that point, everyone could hit need and it would be identical to hitting greed.
And you wonder why the meta game is what it is. Play CW or go home is the take away lesson of Neverwinter PvE.
No, it's the game. The community believes what it believes because it's the truth.
I, for one, completely advocate hitting Need any time you can. The dungeons are needlessly RNG with a gateway requirement to get a chest that may, or may not, contain anything remotely useful.
CN's last chest dropping T1 garbage is such a joke that no one even bothers to run it during DD, especially with widely known exploits in that dungeon. (Ever wonder why during DD you see hundreds of people entering and leaving CN? Yeah.)
And guess what the best players do to clear CN the fastest for the only reliable way to get a drop? You guessed correctly if you said 5x CW.