I mean not other class who buff your DR, it is their skill who buff themselves (unstoppable etc). So in this way, additional DR will be useless for them unless the opposite one stacked arp over 40%. I am always squishy, cuz i care about my team survivability more than myself. (42% DR, 20% deflect, near 29k hp, 12k gs)
CC is our bane as DC's.
I'd love to have more CC resist or ways to break out of it but that would probably be too powerful seeing as we already have high DR, decent deflect and regen and can heal and drastically buff DR.
Cleric has one of the worst deflect of all classes, below avg regen, and above avg DR (with forsight). Nothing to speak of actually.
Heals (quite weak) and buffs (quite powerful) - yep. But u hardly can heal and buff being permacc'd to death and having absolutely no means to do anything about that. While EVERY other class - has such (multiple) means.
I'm not sure why do you think every other class deserves to have the means against CC and cleric - definitely the weakest class in pvp atm - doesnt, cause that would be too powerful
I mean not other class who buff your DR, it is their skill who buff themselves (unstoppable etc). So in this way, additional DR will be useless for them unless the opposite one stacked arp over 40%. I am always squishy, cuz i care about my team survivability more than myself. (42% DR, 20% deflect, near 29k hp, 12k gs)
Doesn't sound too squishy. I rock just around 40% DR, 21.5% deflect and 32k HP. Besides being squishy to be able to heal a little more doesn't cut it, you spend too much time dead which makes not very helpful to your team. If you can stay alive you can keep trickling in heals on people, proving buffs and debuffs and absorbing dmg. Otherwise it's just run to cap point, die, run to cap point, die >.<
Cleric has one of the worst deflect of all classes, below avg regen, and above avg DR (with forsight). Nothing to speak of actually.
Heals (quite weak) and buffs (quite powerful) - yep. But u hardly can heal and buff being permacc'd to death and having absolutely no means to do anything about that. While EVERY other class - has such (multiple) means.
I'm not sure why do you think every other class deserves to have the means against CC and cleric - definitely the weakest class in pvp atm - doesnt, cause that would be too powerful
Well if we had 50% deflect that'd be rediculous. You can still stack deflect to nice leves especially if you had a high dex roll to start with and we do have two shifts to avoid dmg which are of upmost important if your going to be good in PVP. We can avoid damage with good timing so you can't give us just drastic amounts of DR on top of all the DR buffs we have, we'd be DR capped all the time. You can stack either deflect or regen to very nice levels, but not really both. The stats on the black ice gear look like they should help with that maxhp, deflect, defense, regen. You get more DR as AC class than as a DO
Heals only appear weak on the surface, you have to realize that in real PVP people aren't zerging all over the place, sometimes they'll group up and zerg a cap point to take it quick and then go back to the other cap points before you can capture them. But in general you're likely to be in 2 v 1, 2 v 2, 3 v 2 type scenarios more than anything so with other people own abilities to mitigate dmg, sustain themsevles etc plus you there you can keep people up. Of course if your squishy they'll just target you down. This also makes it less likely that you will be perma cc'd, of course if your in a 2 v 3 type scenario against an HR, CW and something else that's just a bad match up because of the amount of hard to/ unavoidable cc from those two classes.
We're just not a class that thats like omg faceroll, you're not going to carry a team most likely. We simply make everybody vastly stronger and increase sustain dramatically which gives you a big advantage. Our job is to move around and support nodes that need help and counter the other teams rotations or take advantage of your team killing a player or two to help somebody cap a node. Granted, in pug matches where you might out gear people by a bit and/or are just simply better than other players you can do thing like go 1 v 3 or even 1 v 4 sometimes and survive for extended periods of time until your team finally shows up. In pugs I often go to the backcap and end up drawing 3 to 4 of the enemy there trying to kill me. Often times they do but in the meantime we usually grab the other 2 cap points and seriously outscore them for a while. Pugs are so much more zerg all over the place, people refusing to fight on enemy cap points, chasing almost dead players all over the match blah blah blah, not exactly where the DC shines getting zerged down by 5 people, that's just hard to handle for anybody unless you seriously outgear them. Also in pugs your more likely to run into PVE specced/geared people which are really worse for a DC if they have comparable/better gear than you because they just do that much more dmg to you and you're not going to kill them. Of course thats when fighting with a team member or two and not trying to go at it solo makes a lot of sense since the enemy will simply die quickly since they're so squishy.
Honestly we're a very powerful class, one of the most powerful in PVP atm, it's mandatory to have a DC in any good premade. With that said we're not an easy class to play at all and we're not an enjoyable class for casual PVP
People can try to justify it all they want, but really the only reason for Righteousness is other classes crying. I can come up with several solutions, because honestly I refuse to bring heals into pvp as it is. Other classes can cry all they want. If they want to be healed, they can start campaigning with those of us that have an issue with this gimp "ability".
1. Remove Righteousness and reduce all healing by 40%. If we don't need healing then the other classes don't need it either. There is still a benefit for everyone else ... They'll die a little slower just like us. Plus the cleric will get killed first, so they get at least double the time to unleash their fury as they'll be the #2 target. Have an issue with this? You shouldn't if you don't think clerics should... You one of those epic clerics who thinks everything is fine but this would break the game? There is that challenge you've been missing... If you can't handle the change in your epicness, then I guess some bosses need some damage nerfing. When I can be hit for half my hp by the GF "tank" class, my willingness to listen about how clerics need a self heal nerf is limited. I guarantee I can come nowhere close to healing half my hp... And that is the other supposedly light damage class.
2. Righteousness now in addition to -40% self healing gives 40% base control resist. I think this would be interesting to see. Shouldn't be a problem anyways since we have the self heal reduction. Would be nice to actually move once reaching a point instead of stunlock death. Now the power is a tradeoff instead of classism.
3. Spread the wealth. Every class gets encouragement to help others... How you ask...
A. Guardian block now only blocks 60% of damage prior to guard drop. Anyone behind guardian still gets the full block. No one should have an issue with this. I mean a blocking guardian can still cause a lot of damage.
B. Do rogues even have a movement reduction when stealthed? Lets make it have 60% speed with one power that gives 2.5% per rank. Not the 5% that healing gets unless we make the healing power only affect self heals. They can use movement to move faster like anyone else.
C. Wizards and hunters? How about something along the lines of +40% damage taken for duration of the control effect they throw out...
D. GWF? Getting rid of the damage reduction while control immunity invoked and replacing with +40% damage taken sounds good. Or could do -40% to movement for the duration...
Sound horrifying? I agree, but it's nothing more than what you're asking of clerics. We have no interest in being your little healing chumps...
This needs to be fixed. Don't care how it 's done, but its very class prejudiced. That should be immediately obvious . I mean this isn't even WOW where heals have twice the strength of DD abilities.
Along those lines... AS should never have stacked, but I'm hoping that debuffs from other abilities like slows or armor pens from same ability aren't stacking... They shouldn't be as it would be imbalanced.
from what i can tell, healing others is not something that is needed except in rare cases like dual-clerics or someone was deeper in the enemy lines. 99% of the time, everyone is at full hp and the cleric is the only person being hit. for both pve and pvp, the only person in need of healing is the cleric as everyone else can survive just fine on their own for a while.
the real benefits from a cleric is just buffs/debuffs
from what i can tell, healing others is not something that is needed except in rare cases like dual-clerics or someone was deeper in the enemy lines. 99% of the time, everyone is at full hp and the cleric is the only person being hit. for both pve and pvp, the only person in need of healing is the cleric as everyone else can survive just fine on their own for a while.
the real benefits from a cleric is just buffs/debuffs
Great! So we should just be able to do away with Righteousness altogether or reduce all healing by 40%. No impact...
Comments
Cleric has one of the worst deflect of all classes, below avg regen, and above avg DR (with forsight). Nothing to speak of actually.
Heals (quite weak) and buffs (quite powerful) - yep. But u hardly can heal and buff being permacc'd to death and having absolutely no means to do anything about that. While EVERY other class - has such (multiple) means.
I'm not sure why do you think every other class deserves to have the means against CC and cleric - definitely the weakest class in pvp atm - doesnt, cause that would be too powerful
Doesn't sound too squishy. I rock just around 40% DR, 21.5% deflect and 32k HP. Besides being squishy to be able to heal a little more doesn't cut it, you spend too much time dead which makes not very helpful to your team. If you can stay alive you can keep trickling in heals on people, proving buffs and debuffs and absorbing dmg. Otherwise it's just run to cap point, die, run to cap point, die >.<
Well if we had 50% deflect that'd be rediculous. You can still stack deflect to nice leves especially if you had a high dex roll to start with and we do have two shifts to avoid dmg which are of upmost important if your going to be good in PVP. We can avoid damage with good timing so you can't give us just drastic amounts of DR on top of all the DR buffs we have, we'd be DR capped all the time. You can stack either deflect or regen to very nice levels, but not really both. The stats on the black ice gear look like they should help with that maxhp, deflect, defense, regen. You get more DR as AC class than as a DO
Heals only appear weak on the surface, you have to realize that in real PVP people aren't zerging all over the place, sometimes they'll group up and zerg a cap point to take it quick and then go back to the other cap points before you can capture them. But in general you're likely to be in 2 v 1, 2 v 2, 3 v 2 type scenarios more than anything so with other people own abilities to mitigate dmg, sustain themsevles etc plus you there you can keep people up. Of course if your squishy they'll just target you down. This also makes it less likely that you will be perma cc'd, of course if your in a 2 v 3 type scenario against an HR, CW and something else that's just a bad match up because of the amount of hard to/ unavoidable cc from those two classes.
We're just not a class that thats like omg faceroll, you're not going to carry a team most likely. We simply make everybody vastly stronger and increase sustain dramatically which gives you a big advantage. Our job is to move around and support nodes that need help and counter the other teams rotations or take advantage of your team killing a player or two to help somebody cap a node. Granted, in pug matches where you might out gear people by a bit and/or are just simply better than other players you can do thing like go 1 v 3 or even 1 v 4 sometimes and survive for extended periods of time until your team finally shows up. In pugs I often go to the backcap and end up drawing 3 to 4 of the enemy there trying to kill me. Often times they do but in the meantime we usually grab the other 2 cap points and seriously outscore them for a while. Pugs are so much more zerg all over the place, people refusing to fight on enemy cap points, chasing almost dead players all over the match blah blah blah, not exactly where the DC shines getting zerged down by 5 people, that's just hard to handle for anybody unless you seriously outgear them. Also in pugs your more likely to run into PVE specced/geared people which are really worse for a DC if they have comparable/better gear than you because they just do that much more dmg to you and you're not going to kill them. Of course thats when fighting with a team member or two and not trying to go at it solo makes a lot of sense since the enemy will simply die quickly since they're so squishy.
Honestly we're a very powerful class, one of the most powerful in PVP atm, it's mandatory to have a DC in any good premade. With that said we're not an easy class to play at all and we're not an enjoyable class for casual PVP
1. Remove Righteousness and reduce all healing by 40%. If we don't need healing then the other classes don't need it either. There is still a benefit for everyone else ... They'll die a little slower just like us. Plus the cleric will get killed first, so they get at least double the time to unleash their fury as they'll be the #2 target. Have an issue with this? You shouldn't if you don't think clerics should... You one of those epic clerics who thinks everything is fine but this would break the game? There is that challenge you've been missing... If you can't handle the change in your epicness, then I guess some bosses need some damage nerfing. When I can be hit for half my hp by the GF "tank" class, my willingness to listen about how clerics need a self heal nerf is limited. I guarantee I can come nowhere close to healing half my hp... And that is the other supposedly light damage class.
2. Righteousness now in addition to -40% self healing gives 40% base control resist. I think this would be interesting to see. Shouldn't be a problem anyways since we have the self heal reduction. Would be nice to actually move once reaching a point instead of stunlock death. Now the power is a tradeoff instead of classism.
3. Spread the wealth. Every class gets encouragement to help others... How you ask...
A. Guardian block now only blocks 60% of damage prior to guard drop. Anyone behind guardian still gets the full block. No one should have an issue with this. I mean a blocking guardian can still cause a lot of damage.
B. Do rogues even have a movement reduction when stealthed? Lets make it have 60% speed with one power that gives 2.5% per rank. Not the 5% that healing gets unless we make the healing power only affect self heals. They can use movement to move faster like anyone else.
C. Wizards and hunters? How about something along the lines of +40% damage taken for duration of the control effect they throw out...
D. GWF? Getting rid of the damage reduction while control immunity invoked and replacing with +40% damage taken sounds good. Or could do -40% to movement for the duration...
Sound horrifying? I agree, but it's nothing more than what you're asking of clerics. We have no interest in being your little healing chumps...
This needs to be fixed. Don't care how it 's done, but its very class prejudiced. That should be immediately obvious . I mean this isn't even WOW where heals have twice the strength of DD abilities.
Along those lines... AS should never have stacked, but I'm hoping that debuffs from other abilities like slows or armor pens from same ability aren't stacking... They shouldn't be as it would be imbalanced.
Anyway, enough said...
Mauz
the real benefits from a cleric is just buffs/debuffs
Great! So we should just be able to do away with Righteousness altogether or reduce all healing by 40%. No impact...