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Compilation of Guardian Fighter Feedback/Suggestions
ranncore
Member, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 2,508
This feedback and these suggestions are based on a couple of general assumptions. Primarily, that
A.) This is a team game featuring dungeons with many enemies, and Guardian Fighters do not have enough AoE, whether it be buffs for the team or attacks against the enemy, to be of great value to the party
and that
B.) Threat should not be the only tool - or even the primary tool - Guardian Fighters have to mitigate damage for their party. This is largely because bosses and many of their adds are immune to threat, because it would be silly (and boring) if GF were capable of being the single target of enemy attacks, and because of the telegraphed attack system, even when GF DO have threat, their team is still in danger of AoE attacks.
C.) The only two roles in the game are DPS and support, neither of which roles the Guardian Fighter is capable of performing on his own (as a side note, it is ridiculous that CW are simultaneously the best support and best damage class).
So, many of the changes here will be focused on making Guardian Fighter buffs affect his party in addition to or instead of himself, as well as increasing his own and, more importantly, his party's potential damage output, alongside providing methods of mitigating damage the party takes by methods other than holding aggro.
So without further ado, here is a list bugs, as well as of changes to skills and feats proposed by either myself or various members of the community, many of which have been talked about since launch.
Powers
Tide of Iron
Smash your shield into foes in a short, wide arc in front of you and reduce their Damage Resistance. Recovers 10% of guard meter plus an additional .5/1/1.5% for each enemy beyond the first that is struck (animation speed slightly increased from live).
Lunging Strike
While this skill is animating, you dodge incoming attacks.
Shield Talent
Increases your guard meter by 5/10/15%. When your guard meter is broken, it regenerates 5/10/15% faster.
Shield Slam
Animation speed increased.
Enhanced Mark
Marked targets now build Threat while marked, and you generate 33/66/100% more Threat when striking them. Marked targets take an additional 1/2/3% damage from you and your party.
Guarded Assault
While Guarding, reflect 1/2/3% of incoming damage to your attacker. If an attack results in your Guard being broken, the attacker suffers 11/22/33% of the damage of the strike that caused your shield to fall.
Knight's Challenge
Reverted to old cooldown (please see bug report section, this was posted repeatedly on preview before the skill was subsequently ruined on live).
Frontline Surge
You Knock back your enemies, sending them prone, allowing you and your allies to seize new ground. Allies caught in the area of affect have +3/4/5% increased damage resistance.
Into the Fray
Temporary Hit Points gained by party increased to 10% of Guardian Fighter's maximum HP.
Iron Warrior
(in addition to already existing affects) nearby allies recieve 25% of these benefits as well (akin to GWF Battle Fury).
Knight's Valor
This skill has been seriously bugged in many ways since launch. Besides its well known tendency to enter cooldown which never expires, it afflicts the Guardian Fighter with any debuff he would normally put on his enemies (such as the Iron Guard debuff from the Protector Tree), and it also occasionally reflects damage to the Guardian Fighter that was actually dodged by his teammates. This is why occasionally your GF will be 1-shotted while the entire party remains visibly safe. Ask me for instructions on how to easily reproduce this if you wish.
Because nearly every function of the skill is broken and has been broken since launch, I suggest changing it entirely, but in keeping with the "spirit" of its intended function. Its new description would read:
You immediately lose 50% of your remaining HP. Nearby allies gain 50% of your remaining health as special Temporary Hit Points that fade away over time (ala Raven Skull, so a GF with 30k HP max but only 20k HP remaining would then go down to 10k HP, and nearby allies would gain 5k Temp Hp that drained quickly).
Unless it is tended to, this version of the skill would still apply a debuff such as Iron Guard to the user.
Bull Charge
Rush your foe, violently Knocking them back, leaving them Prone, and dealing damage to enemies along the way (small AoE akin to GWF Punishing Charge).
Enduring Warrior
When you kill an enemy, you regain Hit Points equal to 3/4/5% of your max Hit Points. When you kill an enemy, your allies gain 1/2/3% of your max Hit Points.
Feats
Shieldmaster
How much your Guard meter is consumed is reduced by 2/4/6/8/10%. When blocking, you reflect .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% of the damage back to your attacker.
Iron Guard
With every melee hit on an enemy, you reduce its damage reduction by 2%, maximum 10%. Every time an enemy strikes you, its damage is reduced by 2%, maximum 10%.
Daunting Challenge
Marked tarets now deal 2/4/6/8/10% less damage to your allies, but still deal full damage to you. You deal 2/4/6/8/10% more damage to marked targets.
Inspiring Leader
Into the Fray increases your party's damage and critical strike rating by 1/2/3/4/5%.
Tab
A.) The new Tab mark is by no means permanent. It seems to be disrupted by marking additional targets via Threatening Rush, but I can't pin exactly what makes the mark expire early in all cases.
B.) It didn't need to be permanent. Marking targets is efficient enough with Threatening Rush. The only enemies with enough HP for this to be useful are bosses, who's aggro is largely randomized and tend to attack other party members with AoE regardless.
C.) It is still by far the weakest and least impressive Tab ability in the game.
Honestly, there should be a meeting at Cryptic about how this is fixed. It should be completely overhauled into an exciting ability that players enjoy using and that is useful for every encounter. It would be hard to come up with any ability less useful and less gratifying to use than the one we have now. My suggestion is this:
You place a strong Mark on your target, that your team can easily see. This target has decreased damage resistance (10%) and control resistance (5%). You build twice as much threat against this target, and every time this target deals damage to a target that is not you, it's damage resistance and control resistance is further reduced by 1%, up to an additional 5% maximum. This mark lasts until you place a strong Mark on a different target.
A word on existing and future gear
The Knight Captain set is the most desirable for GF right now for 2 reasons.
A.) Because it increases the potential damage and defense of useful party members instead of buffing the weakest link (the GF).
B.) Because the people who wear it want to play a support class, and this is achieved better by this single set of gear than by every ability the GF actually has.
I would recommend altering existing gear, or at least introducing new gear, that replicates this function. For instance, a small buff to High General's group buff might be in order (although the aforementioned change to Inspiring Leader by itself would make this set more desirable), or other gear like Timeless Hero would instead read "Your encounter powers grant 450 critical strike to you and your party for 6 seconds. This effect stacks up to 3 times."
Thanks for reading.
A.) This is a team game featuring dungeons with many enemies, and Guardian Fighters do not have enough AoE, whether it be buffs for the team or attacks against the enemy, to be of great value to the party
and that
B.) Threat should not be the only tool - or even the primary tool - Guardian Fighters have to mitigate damage for their party. This is largely because bosses and many of their adds are immune to threat, because it would be silly (and boring) if GF were capable of being the single target of enemy attacks, and because of the telegraphed attack system, even when GF DO have threat, their team is still in danger of AoE attacks.
C.) The only two roles in the game are DPS and support, neither of which roles the Guardian Fighter is capable of performing on his own (as a side note, it is ridiculous that CW are simultaneously the best support and best damage class).
So, many of the changes here will be focused on making Guardian Fighter buffs affect his party in addition to or instead of himself, as well as increasing his own and, more importantly, his party's potential damage output, alongside providing methods of mitigating damage the party takes by methods other than holding aggro.
So without further ado, here is a list bugs, as well as of changes to skills and feats proposed by either myself or various members of the community, many of which have been talked about since launch.
Powers
Tide of Iron
Smash your shield into foes in a short, wide arc in front of you and reduce their Damage Resistance. Recovers 10% of guard meter plus an additional .5/1/1.5% for each enemy beyond the first that is struck (animation speed slightly increased from live).
Lunging Strike
While this skill is animating, you dodge incoming attacks.
Shield Talent
Increases your guard meter by 5/10/15%. When your guard meter is broken, it regenerates 5/10/15% faster.
Shield Slam
Animation speed increased.
Enhanced Mark
Marked targets now build Threat while marked, and you generate 33/66/100% more Threat when striking them. Marked targets take an additional 1/2/3% damage from you and your party.
Guarded Assault
While Guarding, reflect 1/2/3% of incoming damage to your attacker. If an attack results in your Guard being broken, the attacker suffers 11/22/33% of the damage of the strike that caused your shield to fall.
Knight's Challenge
Reverted to old cooldown (please see bug report section, this was posted repeatedly on preview before the skill was subsequently ruined on live).
Frontline Surge
You Knock back your enemies, sending them prone, allowing you and your allies to seize new ground. Allies caught in the area of affect have +3/4/5% increased damage resistance.
Into the Fray
Temporary Hit Points gained by party increased to 10% of Guardian Fighter's maximum HP.
Iron Warrior
(in addition to already existing affects) nearby allies recieve 25% of these benefits as well (akin to GWF Battle Fury).
Knight's Valor
This skill has been seriously bugged in many ways since launch. Besides its well known tendency to enter cooldown which never expires, it afflicts the Guardian Fighter with any debuff he would normally put on his enemies (such as the Iron Guard debuff from the Protector Tree), and it also occasionally reflects damage to the Guardian Fighter that was actually dodged by his teammates. This is why occasionally your GF will be 1-shotted while the entire party remains visibly safe. Ask me for instructions on how to easily reproduce this if you wish.
Because nearly every function of the skill is broken and has been broken since launch, I suggest changing it entirely, but in keeping with the "spirit" of its intended function. Its new description would read:
You immediately lose 50% of your remaining HP. Nearby allies gain 50% of your remaining health as special Temporary Hit Points that fade away over time (ala Raven Skull, so a GF with 30k HP max but only 20k HP remaining would then go down to 10k HP, and nearby allies would gain 5k Temp Hp that drained quickly).
Unless it is tended to, this version of the skill would still apply a debuff such as Iron Guard to the user.
Bull Charge
Rush your foe, violently Knocking them back, leaving them Prone, and dealing damage to enemies along the way (small AoE akin to GWF Punishing Charge).
Enduring Warrior
When you kill an enemy, you regain Hit Points equal to 3/4/5% of your max Hit Points. When you kill an enemy, your allies gain 1/2/3% of your max Hit Points.
Feats
Shieldmaster
How much your Guard meter is consumed is reduced by 2/4/6/8/10%. When blocking, you reflect .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% of the damage back to your attacker.
Iron Guard
With every melee hit on an enemy, you reduce its damage reduction by 2%, maximum 10%. Every time an enemy strikes you, its damage is reduced by 2%, maximum 10%.
Daunting Challenge
Marked tarets now deal 2/4/6/8/10% less damage to your allies, but still deal full damage to you. You deal 2/4/6/8/10% more damage to marked targets.
Inspiring Leader
Into the Fray increases your party's damage and critical strike rating by 1/2/3/4/5%.
Tab
A.) The new Tab mark is by no means permanent. It seems to be disrupted by marking additional targets via Threatening Rush, but I can't pin exactly what makes the mark expire early in all cases.
B.) It didn't need to be permanent. Marking targets is efficient enough with Threatening Rush. The only enemies with enough HP for this to be useful are bosses, who's aggro is largely randomized and tend to attack other party members with AoE regardless.
C.) It is still by far the weakest and least impressive Tab ability in the game.
Honestly, there should be a meeting at Cryptic about how this is fixed. It should be completely overhauled into an exciting ability that players enjoy using and that is useful for every encounter. It would be hard to come up with any ability less useful and less gratifying to use than the one we have now. My suggestion is this:
You place a strong Mark on your target, that your team can easily see. This target has decreased damage resistance (10%) and control resistance (5%). You build twice as much threat against this target, and every time this target deals damage to a target that is not you, it's damage resistance and control resistance is further reduced by 1%, up to an additional 5% maximum. This mark lasts until you place a strong Mark on a different target.
A word on existing and future gear
The Knight Captain set is the most desirable for GF right now for 2 reasons.
A.) Because it increases the potential damage and defense of useful party members instead of buffing the weakest link (the GF).
B.) Because the people who wear it want to play a support class, and this is achieved better by this single set of gear than by every ability the GF actually has.
I would recommend altering existing gear, or at least introducing new gear, that replicates this function. For instance, a small buff to High General's group buff might be in order (although the aforementioned change to Inspiring Leader by itself would make this set more desirable), or other gear like Timeless Hero would instead read "Your encounter powers grant 450 critical strike to you and your party for 6 seconds. This effect stacks up to 3 times."
Thanks for reading.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
It's pretty silly that a tier 1 armor set is the most useful for PvE unless the team is weak. They should definitely boost the other armors and/or allow them to give team support. I can't imagine they would do something so profoundly stupid as nerf the Knight Captain's set.
See, the idea is that developers have to find ways to boost the Guardian Fighter in PvE without boosting them in PvP. GFs are doing just fine against other players. So the first change I'd wanna see is a power boost to all the PvE armors (except Knight Captain, which is good enough as is).
There are plenty of ways of modifying skills so that they are more useful in PvE without making them too strong in PvP. I think Lunging Strike granting temporary immunity/dodge might actually be a little OP. I think both it and Bull Rush should damage targets along the way, which makes more sense in my mind an would greatly enhance these powers for PvE while having almost no effect on PvP. No one uses Enforced Taunt for PvP, so increasing its power and/or increasing the target cap shouldn't have much of an effect either. Raising the target cap for Frontline Surge would be nice too, and again, would have no effect on PvP.
I think another problem is the developers don't want people to rely on specific skills and not try out the others. They want to encourage variety and creativity. What I don't understand is why they can't simply fix it so that Guardian Fighters do bonus damage to NPCs. Another thing they could do is have Guardian Fighters gain some sort of buff for their threat, an inherent ability that, for instance, increases their damage depending on how much aggro they have (something like Arcane Mastery, but aggro based). Since other players can't aggro, this would effectively increase their powers in PvE only. They could also just have it so that all Guardian Fighter skills generate some extra aggro, to help maintain balance between the skills.
Like I said, as long as they give them a boost in PvE without overboosting them in PvP, everything should be fine.
MY suggestion is to make Tab ability like Scorion movement "come over here" nice addition and if your enemy is CC immune you go to your enemy + they are marked or build up instant agro like enforced treath this is common in all mmo games and look realy cool and also i dont think its hard to make it .
Sorry for scribe failure i write from mobile.
however let's be realistic.With the current dungeon design even if these nice changes were implamented,still GF will luck much aggro skill , and damage.
So im a little bit HERETIC BUT ALSO REALISTIC and i say that the only way to make Gf viable is to increase its dps.
The current problem of GFs in NW is that are surpassed as a class overall and totally by GWFs.There is nothing that a GF can do that GWF can't do better.
The only thing that lucks a GWf is aggro with mobs.But with the current design and aggro influenced by dmg,that is not a big problem for exp perties afterall.
In summary GWFs are 20-100% better dps than any paragon and path GF while have almost(if not better) same survivability.
Whatever the mark changes etc...this will not help the poor GF.It will be outclassed by GWF in his designed role.
So for me the only solution to make Gf viable is to increae its dps.In order to be desirable by parties.And it is really the simplest and quicker solution.No design changes no new animations nothing.Change the encounter damage multiplier raise it by 15-20%.Still the GWf will be better dps but a Gf that tanks and can AT LEAST KILL one **** thing will be ...more desirable in groups.
Increase Griffon's Wrath,cleave,tide of iron etc dmg multipliers.And THE ANIMATIONS TOO!!
IT IS RIDICOULOUS A GWF TO MOVE A HUGE GREATSWORD WITH LIGHTING SPEED WHILE one hand GRIFFON'S WRATH IS IN SLOW MOTION!!!
GF needs some care and in pvp.Why not?? All classes whine and cry and we are noble "no we do not changes in pvp we r fine".
For months people are complaining about OP unstoppable enc by GWFS and GWfs protect it and distract forum discussion in order to keep their lever.Like Smigol in LOTR."MY PRECIOUS!!!UNSTOPABLE IS MY PRECIOUS!"
And we are noble?No.We want changes in pvp also.
Also i filled a bug report about elven resolve.In stats G regeneration is still 0.Guys our survival depends solely on our guard meter.I ask you all.
Do anyone of you know our exact guard meter??Do we know that our feats that increase it work properly??
NO.SINCE WE DO NOT KNOW ITS EXACT NUMBER !!
There is a feat that makes you lose 10% GM less.And???How i am suppose to know if it works???I have no clue.It moght work IT MIGHT NOT EVEN WORKED EVER!!SINCE BETA!!!How we suppose to know???The ravenskull artifact gives you +166 GM.And???How i am suppose to know if it give it to us?It might not!!
We are so few.The GWFs are in droves in forums protecting thier classes.TR ,HR etc the same.And we probably have the most bugged class and we are silent!
griffons wrath has been sped up to the point im actually using two charges when i only meant to use 1 and ive hit the first boss of frozen heart 47k with knights challange and 1 charge of griffons wrath.
and sometimes the easiest and simplest solutions are the worst solutions. i agree however that there does need to be more done to the gf in regards to some of thier team buffs but besides the cleric and the nature hr the GF is the only class that has any team support.
and the cw just has lots of debuffs thats not support thats debilitation which is also part of the reason they have so much dps well that and heavy aoe that all stacks.
we all need to calm down and be reasonable we do that and we may see something come of this im not saying dont defend the class far from it but we need to be civilized in order to get what we want we need to ask; or come up with real solutions, not demand them.
they dont answer to demands infact they actually delete messages and threads that demand trust me they know they need to do something about it but they dont really know what yet.
for instance we could say that the grand regent doesnt have enough power or crit stats to be useful to a gf in pve. they might respond to something like that obviously we would need to have more actual info than that to change it but screaming and demanding is more likely going to make them ignore than to change anything.
i happen to think that the tab skill could have mark.... or house a slot for mark that also allows any team buffs that currently reside in our 3 encounters thusly making us lose out on stuns knocks or aggro generating abilites but with this idea those 3 encounters can still be offensive or buffing while contributing to the teams survival through buffs slotted in tab using tab if marking is not needed which it usually isnt excepting boss fights.
"griffons wrath has been sped up to the point"
GW is still so slow i miss HR CW and TR in pvp.They have time to dodge it(move i mean) left or right.Even worst GW applies a very short stun yet the second charge sometimes misses them.We are talking about such big slow.For PVE GW is fine.Monsters are virtually in slow motion.PVP is another story.To hit 2 times while you want one,either your keyboard has problem or you pressed 2 times the button.That is not an excuse.
"ive hit the first boss of frozen heart 47k with knights challange and 1 charge of griffons wrath."
Are you correct?i have 6,6k power and the pvp t2 sword with SP enchant.I hit for 4,4-5 k each charge.With KC you might hit for 10k damage.47???? Not suure.Don't trust the numbers you see floating around.They are not precise.try hiting a troll in sharandar.The anarmored ones.You will see just with cleave 5,6,8k damage.Then check your log.The damage is 1,2-1,3k .
Even if it happened some chains of buffs took place irrelevant with the skill.Even if dc was hitting he would score a crazy hit.That is still irrelevant with our demands.
GW needs dmg and speed boost.We must use it if we like ,in very short succesion.
"and sometimes the easiest and simplest solutions are the worst solutions. i agree however that there does need to be more done to the gf in regards to some of thier team buffs but besides the cleric and the nature hr the GF is the only class that has any team support."
NW combat does not need team support.it needs 2 things.CC to hold mobs and DPS to finish them.Simple as that.
All the other Into the fray etc all these is just for show.Whoever says otherwise has to play since beta or go only in T1 dungs.That is ofcourse my personal subjective hypothesis and nothing mersonal fellow guardian
"we all need to calm down and be reasonable we do that and we may see something come of this"
GF community calmed down and was reasonable.result.Continous GF nerfs.CW community shouted about tenacity in pvp.They heared them and made their cc ignore 66% of tenacity.
had you ever see a moderator or a dev posting ANYTHING in a Gf related thread??No.
Now just check todays forum when they posted about GWFs.
Being polite is not always good.Sometimes it does not work.You have to shout and to fight for your rights sometimes.In our case our class
"for instance we could say that the grand regent doesnt have enough power or crit stats to be useful to a gf in pve"
Crit??Even if it had our general crit are so low that is useless anyway.I did not see a GF surpassing 21-22% crit ever.Do you know how much crits the other clases have?the double.
"i happen to think that the tab skill could have mark.... "
if the GF community sticks to the "hold aggro" "improve mark" "enhance threat generation" GF is doomed.Cause NW is an action MMO that threat is based upon damage.With out more damage GFs cannot hold threat .
"or house a slot for mark that also allows any team buffs"
this is not our class shoes to fill.This is CWs DCs job.our main job is to tank ,absorb heavy damage and light dps helping the party clearing the insane number of adds that spawn in NW dungs.
Whoever tried to do otherwise with diferent sophisticated builds and spent huge amount of money in the end deleted his char and left for other MMos.if you ask me i can point you to a thread 2 weeks before here that a 21gs GF said the following.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?628731-Too-much-GF-Nerfing
offcourse the tread is locked now but give it a try.
And masterjewstar if my tone feels agressive or something i like that i ask sorry and apologize
i am just so fed up by all these i hear about GF role.All speak about us except us.Today in separate threads 2 GWFs made the following "suggestions" for GFs.
1.Main role for Gf is to "kite" (!)
2.Guard meter must have 5 sec max duration.....