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STOP claiming that you're giving them more glory...
blureel
Member Posts: 163 Arc User
I'd like to address a big fallacy that's been perpetuated for a long time.
I hear this a lot when players are defeated in an obviously lopsided match - "Don't waste your time fighting anymore. You're only giving them more glory." And variations of this. It's a "reasonable" excuse to just sit at the campfire because the belief is at least you can "fight back" against the other team by not giving them more glory.
I would support this concept if it were in fact true because I can relate to being utterly frustrated playing against players who are clearly in a whole different "playing level" than me. I use playing level because I'm also frustrated with the overused and too broadly used term "gear score".
But back to "giving glory"...
First of all, glory "earned" in PvP is based first on which team wins or loses. Consider it the winners bracket and the losers bracket. Winners' bracket means you can get 500 glory and losers bracket means you can get 167 glory.
The second factor in determining the amount of glory a player receives is their final rank on the leaderboard. 1st place gets the most glory, 2nd is less, and 3rd is less than 2nd, etc. On the losers bracket, the same thing with the other possibility of not getting any glory.
The number of kills a player gets does NOT directly affect how much glory that player gets at the end of the match. There is no 500 glory bonus for having the most kills or 10 glory bonus for each kill you get.
What is true is that the new PvP system does adjust the total glory gained in the system based on the overall skill level of the players in the match. You ARE not giving them glory simply by having "less skill" than them in the skill matching system.
So, instead of sitting at the campfire to "not give them any more glory", how about go cap bases and knock the rankings of the lower players on the opposing team down more. That will actually give them LESS glory!
I hear this a lot when players are defeated in an obviously lopsided match - "Don't waste your time fighting anymore. You're only giving them more glory." And variations of this. It's a "reasonable" excuse to just sit at the campfire because the belief is at least you can "fight back" against the other team by not giving them more glory.
I would support this concept if it were in fact true because I can relate to being utterly frustrated playing against players who are clearly in a whole different "playing level" than me. I use playing level because I'm also frustrated with the overused and too broadly used term "gear score".
But back to "giving glory"...
First of all, glory "earned" in PvP is based first on which team wins or loses. Consider it the winners bracket and the losers bracket. Winners' bracket means you can get 500 glory and losers bracket means you can get 167 glory.
The second factor in determining the amount of glory a player receives is their final rank on the leaderboard. 1st place gets the most glory, 2nd is less, and 3rd is less than 2nd, etc. On the losers bracket, the same thing with the other possibility of not getting any glory.
The number of kills a player gets does NOT directly affect how much glory that player gets at the end of the match. There is no 500 glory bonus for having the most kills or 10 glory bonus for each kill you get.
What is true is that the new PvP system does adjust the total glory gained in the system based on the overall skill level of the players in the match. You ARE not giving them glory simply by having "less skill" than them in the skill matching system.
So, instead of sitting at the campfire to "not give them any more glory", how about go cap bases and knock the rankings of the lower players on the opposing team down more. That will actually give them LESS glory!
Post edited by blureel on
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You make some valid points but still not being farmed when there is only three of us and as soon as we jump down chain prone dead because they are right at our spawn point and the only way to get to a base is to jump down and get insta death. So yeah do not feel like spending my time laying on my back with a box counting down the seconds till I am rezzed prefer to just sit up at the campfire.
The other team wants to be a ****** and farm you why would you give them what they want all because they outnumber you. On that note leaver penalty did nothing really. As people who drop connection or have a bad connection or quit match are not being replaced which still makes it a farming situation and not a pvp situation.
Certain times of days it is almost unbearable because of people playing in countries with bad internet connection. It is not there fault nor is it mine so why should everyone be punished?I am being punished cause I have less team mates. They are being punished because there country the internet is bad and the only person winning is the other team. These people usually join with there friend or friends and when one goes the other goes and that leaves you with 3 and here comes the other team to think they are pro to farm you for the next 10 minutes.
No thanks I will take the campfire in these situations. Your give more glory maybe correct but your general idea of jumping down for insta death is a bad one.
I feel your pain. Been there many times. But you're just raising only one scenario (to which there is a solution now after the skill level patch was instituted) and this scenario is not about feeding the other team glory. This scenario is about having a chance to even play which you're not able to.
First, did you know the leaver penalty doesn't apply when 2(?) or more people have already left the team? I don't remember if it's 2 or 3. I know when I was last to leave yesterday, I did not get the leaver penalty.
Second, the many scenarios that I'm referring to is when there is a sudden and decisive change in momentum of the match, like going from being ahead of the red team to falling behind the red team. Red team isn't camping your spawn base yet. Or, someone is tired of getting owned at cap 2 or frustrated at not being able to cap the point. Tells the party "it's hopeless. stop giving them glory." And sits at the campfire. This is while the other team mates are still out on the cap points and fighting...and waiting for help to come from the team mates that just died. I've seen players even leave a match, not disconnect, out right leave a match from their personal inability to cap a point while their team is in the lead of the match or because the match is a close fight and it's slow match.
Also as an FYI, there are some players who purposely "camp" the opposing spawn point just to discourage players into thinking that it's a hopeless match so they don't come out of spawn and spread the demoralizing gloom to the rest of the team mates.
Believe I'm well aware of all the mismatches that Neverwinter's PvP brings about. I've been on both sides and fairly often and very recently so yes I'm just as frustrated as you facing teams which are clearly outclassing my team that I got stuck on.
But it bothers me more when I'm out trying to cap a base or fighting an opposing team to see a teammate say in party chat that it's hopeless and you're just giving them more glory.
I get people get frustrated and I can understand why you want to sit afk at the campsite. BUT I can NOT stand listening to inaccurate sayings purporting to be factual as a justification for doing so. If you personally, don't feel like fighting anymore, that's fine. Just don't claim it's a fact that you're giving them glory by fighting a "hopeless" match because IT IS NOT the fact.
I say this because yes even I do get frustrated enough some times to sit afk at the spawn site when as you pointed out in your scenario that the opposing team is sitting at the base camp waiting to destroy anyone who leaves the camp. But my choice to stay afk isn't based anything on a belief in erroneous "facts".
You bet we gave it 210 percent and we literally DOMINATED 4 versus 5. I can also say it was one of the funnest matches I was in for a long long time.
Yet I agree with you. Call it like it is. You ain't feeling like getting rolfstomped just say hey guys gonna sit here this seems to be just a pointless beating.
Yes, and jump down and get ganked by the 5 bloodthirsty people waiting for you, CC'd the moment your feet touch the ground and killed within 5 seconds?
Also, glory aside, I ain't dishing out free kills.
Except it's often not an option. When you sit at campfire and give up, you usually tried a few times. When you get camped at spawn, it's for 2 factors:
1) The opposing team is way overgeared/coordinated/better classes vs your pug.
2) The map is poorly designed.
One of the PVP maps IIRC is particularly flawed as it offers one exit only, thus allows "camping". When you have 5 players ready to permastun/knock/cc you to oblivion as soon as you touch ground, you know you're doomed.
Having more exit options would offer better chances to fight back to an "underdog" party though.
I don't mind losing.
I don't mind facing a more geared opponent and lose.
The main reason i can just sit in spawn and wait is when there's no way to fight back and the enemy team is a "rabid dogs pack" type of team.
PvP TEAM, RABID DOGS TYPE: this kind of team don't give a fk if the enemy team lost 1-2 players and is fighting 4-3v5, or if the enemy team is made of 7-8-9k GS newbies, or if the enemy team is gimped by 1-2 weak players. They keep swarming 5v1 every single enemy that tries to get off the spawn area. No matter if they are winning 800-50 and 2-3 of the enemies already gave up and sit in spawn. If the others come out and they see them, they will be all on them. No matter if they have all 3 points capped and the enemy is just fooling around the map. They swarm. If the enemy manage to do not get killed and escape, they will chase him through all the map, all 5 of them, to get that one kill. They will be there, like a pack of rabid dogs, running all together after the lone enemy, cause they want that kill so badly.
The best ones are obviously the teams that go camping under the enemy spawn, like "ok, we won, now want to make sure you can't move from your spawn. You're under siege".
Amongst these amazingly sad groups, there are the true Champions of sadness: the players that come spawn camping and then try to find a way to reach your campfire. They are winning 800-50, their entire team put your spawn under siege to prevent you from moving freely on the map, but they still want to exploit the map to come up there and kill some enemy sitting by the campfire. You see them desperately jumping against the wall, sometimes on their Mount, to find a way up there.
Such a sorry sight. Now you are pretty much forced to stay there cause of the penalty. But it's just a few minutes, so who cares. You can laugh at the dogs.