The promo came out for the ioun stone of radiance and instead of the dev team making it BOP or BOA they made it BOE to begin with. The vendor had no limit on how many times the item could be claimed by each character that transferred the zen to their account either.
And just to clarify, this part is not true. When the Ioun stone was first introduce, it was BoP, one claim only like the rest of the pets. Then one patch (that messed up a bunch of BoP/BoE stuff) changed the stone so it was BoE and infinitely claimable. This is when PE went nuts with people trying to profit off this bug. It's obvious to ANYONE who's been using the Claim Agent that the stuff is NOT intended to be claimed, then traded or sold. It's account or character specific, and any deviation from this is certainly a bug. If your guild mate was "one of the first" to play the game, he should've been acutely aware of this.
Many members of my guild have access to the stone, and as soon as we saw it happening, every single one of us knew it was a bug. I'm glad to see Cryptic is taking action against the worst of these abusers.
And last point, the removal of the income gained isn't a just punishment. It just sends the message that if you see a bug, exploit the hell out of it, because you'll only get your gains removed IF they can't you. If someone wantonly exploits a bug for personal gain, this game doesn't need them here any more. Your guildie should have been smarter about it, and if he genuinely cared so much about the game, he wouldn't have risked his account and everything on it to make some cheap gold utilizing the bug.
That's the way to teach people to report bugs right away, or at least not to exploit them.
0
latnemurtsniMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited March 2014
The only 'victims' are the people that spent $10 dollars for for promotion, and no longer have the benefit over everyone else. I feel bad for them.
Go a step further, next time you see someone selling a stone also check what guild they are in and report it. Hell pretend to 'buy' one so they invite you to it.
My only issue with this is that if this were a larger issue that required court intervention, any half decent lawyer would get this person off based on precedence set by Cryptic for previous events like this.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
My only issue with this is that if this were a larger issue that required court intervention, any half decent lawyer would get this person off based on precedence set by Cryptic for previous events like this.
Moot point. (There's some legal language for you).
As for an attorney "getting the accused 'off'": No they would't because there is no legal tender monetary loss on the part of the person accused. It's Cryptic's House and you are a guest, you are not asked to pay admission fees or anything else. Therefore Cryptic has the right to kick you out of their house for any or no reason (and this is actually in the Terms of Service we ALL agreed to before being allowed into the house to begin with.)
There's some more legal mumbo-jumbo for you. But all of it is moot because legally speaking: there is no legal bounds in this action whatsoever.
Yes, because what this game really needs is fewer paying customers.:rolleyes:
Anyway - I'd take this report with a pinch of salt.
No what this game needs is more action taken against people who obviously take full advantage of an exploit just because they think they can get away with it. When the majority have probably exploited in 1 form or another, then it's a big problem and they have a mesage that it's tolerated. A perma ban may be a bit harsh, but thats only an assumption made by the OP/his friend. I don't think trying to destroy the market should go unpunished. I did manage to get 50 stones myself just to see their stance on it but decided not to profit from it since it was clearly an exploit. I expected my stones to become bop again which they were, but did it just in case :P
My only issue with this is that if this were a larger issue that required court intervention, any half decent lawyer would get this person off based on precedence set by Cryptic for previous events like this.
People think they have so many rights when they really do. Especially but not only America where people sue for anything. When did people become wimps that can't seem fault with themselves =/
People think they have so many rights when they really do. Especially but not only America where people sue for anything. When did people become wimps that can't seem fault with themselves =/
Your comment just shows that you don't understand the law...or rights for that matter. My comment has nothing to do with suing cause someone spilled coffee or being a "wimp" but only with legal precedence. Which as stated has been set by Cryptic in their handling of other similar events.
That being said, this is not something to be handled in a court of law and Cryptic can really handle each event however they please.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
No what this game needs is more action taken against people who obviously take full advantage of an exploit just because they think they can get away with it. When the majority have probably exploited in 1 form or another, then it's a big problem and they have a mesage that it's tolerated. A perma ban may be a bit harsh, but thats only an assumption made by the OP/his friend. I don't think trying to destroy the market should go unpunished. I did manage to get 50 stones myself just to see their stance on it but decided not to profit from it since it was clearly an exploit. I expected my stones to become bop again which they were, but did it just in case :P
I was responding specifically to the suggestion that seeing hundreds of people permabanned would be a good thing, not suggesting that the exploiters should get off scot free. That's a decision for Cryptic and I expect they will balance the potential gains (the message you mention) against potential losses (paying customers leaving one or more PWE games) before deciding on something appropriate.
For clarity, nobody who exploited this bug for large gain can have any complaint if they land a ban or similar. They should have taken that possibility into account at the time.
I expect they will balance the potential gains (the message you mention) against potential losses (paying customers leaving one or more PWE games) before deciding on something appropriate.
Mnn, banning repeat customers which are by far the most profitable players that a F2P can have, or making a few token short-term bans for the worst offenders to appease the rest of the populace. I am sure Cryptic will have a hard time deciding on what (not) to do....
Mnn, banning repeat customers which are by far the most profitable players that a F2P can have, or making a few token short-term bans for the worst offenders to appease the rest of the populace. I am sure Cryptic will have a hard time deciding on what (not) to do....
Precisely. Even if the OP's post is completely accurate and his friend did get banned for the Stone exploit, I doubt very much it is a permaban.
Having said that our old guild leader got perma banned for selling stuff too cheaply on the ah and others for sharandar quest sharing (some only temp banned) but neither should be perma banned even if the latter was still an exploit that I decided not to follow. So I guess you can never know. But yeah, no use making assumptions
Your comment just shows that you don't understand the law...or rights for that matter. My comment has nothing to do with suing cause someone spilled coffee or being a "wimp" but only with legal precedence. Which as stated has been set by Cryptic in their handling of other similar events.
That being said, this is not something to be handled in a court of law and Cryptic can really handle each event however they please.
Well the court is there to protect people being taken advantage of and victims. When you know there's a bug in game and try to exploit it for your own gain as much as you can you're not really the victim. That's probably also why we have no rights to games so that companies don't get sued by people not happy that they don't get their own way. I hear people threatening to sue games all of the time and I just think, grow up. At least in most cases.
That's what he claims they said. It was some way to abuse the salvage mechanic in some way I believe. It was a while ago so details are a little hazy.
Oh okay.
I am guessing he probably exploited some sort of instant-kill or broken buff stacking mechanic to run dungeons very fast, then sold all the crappy gear. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam...
That's what he claims they said. It was some way to abuse the salvage mechanic in some way I believe. It was a while ago so details are a little hazy.
People got banned because they bought cheap items off the AH that could be salvaged for more after the introduction of Mod1. Items like the Brutal Lizardfolk Scimitar were a 3-4k AH buy and a 10k salvage and people were piling them up.
People got banned because they bought cheap items off the AH that could be salvaged for more after the introduction of Mod1. Items like the Brutal Lizardfolk Scimitar were a 3-4k AH buy and a 10k salvage and people were piling up on them.
Are you absolutely sure as that is a ridiculous reason to ban people.
How is that different for any other form of economic actions such as buying low when there is a sale and selling higher later?
People got banned because they bought cheap items off the AH that could be salvaged for more after the introduction of Mod1. Items like the Brutal Lizardfolk Scimitar were a 3-4k AH buy and a 10k salvage and people were piling them up.
It could have been that which makes more sense. I only joined after he was banned and didnt actually know the guy. I thought he said sell them, but buying them would make more sense. Either way it's a completely ridiculous reason to ban someone, let alone permanently. I only recall that he said on raidcall that they mailed him saying about either buying or selling items too cheaply and that he said those items could be salvaged for more. So while exact details are hazy that was the jist of it.
Are you absolutely sure as that is a ridiculous reason to ban people.
How is that different for any other form of economic actions such as buying low when there is a sale and selling higher later?
Yes, absolutely sure. People were banned for "an exploit involving Salvaging" and all they did was salvage gear they bought cheaply. You better never pickpocket Cryptic/PWE directly (rough ADs come from them). Same can be said about the Radiance disaster, because selling the Stone to others who weren't qualified for the offer removed one incentive for the buyer to get ZEN for cash.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited March 2014
If your friend wishes to dispute this ban please have them contact support by filing a support ticket or emailing customerservice@perfectworld.com
Discussions of disciplinary actions are not permitted on the forums and the staff which patrol the forums can not change the decision. The only course of action is to contact support.
Yes, absolutely sure. People were banned for "an exploit involving Salvaging" and all they did was salvage gear they bought cheaply.
That is not against any rules that I know of and when I saw those claims it sounded more like they broke other rules and misplaced the blame either accidentally or to create hype.
Myself and the other mods have bought items from the AH to salvage. That's no different than merchanting as it was called in other games I played. If you could buy items from a shop in an unlimited supply and salvage it, though, that is an obvious exploit as well since at that point it would be an unlimited and non-timegated income source.
EDIT - Pinpointerror looked into this and the exploit involved manufacturing items via quests and/or shops to salvage. It was not for purchasing items from other players and salvaging.
Comments
And just to clarify, this part is not true. When the Ioun stone was first introduce, it was BoP, one claim only like the rest of the pets. Then one patch (that messed up a bunch of BoP/BoE stuff) changed the stone so it was BoE and infinitely claimable. This is when PE went nuts with people trying to profit off this bug. It's obvious to ANYONE who's been using the Claim Agent that the stuff is NOT intended to be claimed, then traded or sold. It's account or character specific, and any deviation from this is certainly a bug. If your guild mate was "one of the first" to play the game, he should've been acutely aware of this.
Many members of my guild have access to the stone, and as soon as we saw it happening, every single one of us knew it was a bug. I'm glad to see Cryptic is taking action against the worst of these abusers.
And last point, the removal of the income gained isn't a just punishment. It just sends the message that if you see a bug, exploit the hell out of it, because you'll only get your gains removed IF they can't you. If someone wantonly exploits a bug for personal gain, this game doesn't need them here any more. Your guildie should have been smarter about it, and if he genuinely cared so much about the game, he wouldn't have risked his account and everything on it to make some cheap gold utilizing the bug.
Go a step further, next time you see someone selling a stone also check what guild they are in and report it. Hell pretend to 'buy' one so they invite you to it.
- JailBreak (in development)
Moot point. (There's some legal language for you).
As for an attorney "getting the accused 'off'": No they would't because there is no legal tender monetary loss on the part of the person accused. It's Cryptic's House and you are a guest, you are not asked to pay admission fees or anything else. Therefore Cryptic has the right to kick you out of their house for any or no reason (and this is actually in the Terms of Service we ALL agreed to before being allowed into the house to begin with.)
There's some more legal mumbo-jumbo for you. But all of it is moot because legally speaking: there is no legal bounds in this action whatsoever.
LOL
No what this game needs is more action taken against people who obviously take full advantage of an exploit just because they think they can get away with it. When the majority have probably exploited in 1 form or another, then it's a big problem and they have a mesage that it's tolerated. A perma ban may be a bit harsh, but thats only an assumption made by the OP/his friend. I don't think trying to destroy the market should go unpunished. I did manage to get 50 stones myself just to see their stance on it but decided not to profit from it since it was clearly an exploit. I expected my stones to become bop again which they were, but did it just in case :P
People think they have so many rights when they really do. Especially but not only America where people sue for anything. When did people become wimps that can't seem fault with themselves =/
Precisely. Even if the OP's post is completely accurate and his friend did get banned for the Stone exploit, I doubt very much it is a permaban.
That being said, this is not something to be handled in a court of law and Cryptic can really handle each event however they please.
- JailBreak (in development)
For clarity, nobody who exploited this bug for large gain can have any complaint if they land a ban or similar. They should have taken that possibility into account at the time.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Mnn, banning repeat customers which are by far the most profitable players that a F2P can have, or making a few token short-term bans for the worst offenders to appease the rest of the populace. I am sure Cryptic will have a hard time deciding on what (not) to do....
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Having said that our old guild leader got perma banned for selling stuff too cheaply on the ah and others for sharandar quest sharing (some only temp banned) but neither should be perma banned even if the latter was still an exploit that I decided not to follow. So I guess you can never know. But yeah, no use making assumptions
Well the court is there to protect people being taken advantage of and victims. When you know there's a bug in game and try to exploit it for your own gain as much as you can you're not really the victim. That's probably also why we have no rights to games so that companies don't get sued by people not happy that they don't get their own way. I hear people threatening to sue games all of the time and I just think, grow up. At least in most cases.
Huh? Is that phrase an euphemism for something or have I got too little sleep recently to properly understand this?
That's what he claims they said. It was some way to abuse the salvage mechanic in some way I believe. It was a while ago so details are a little hazy.
Oh okay.
I am guessing he probably exploited some sort of instant-kill or broken buff stacking mechanic to run dungeons very fast, then sold all the crappy gear. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam...
People got banned because they bought cheap items off the AH that could be salvaged for more after the introduction of Mod1. Items like the Brutal Lizardfolk Scimitar were a 3-4k AH buy and a 10k salvage and people were piling them up.
Are you absolutely sure as that is a ridiculous reason to ban people.
How is that different for any other form of economic actions such as buying low when there is a sale and selling higher later?
It could have been that which makes more sense. I only joined after he was banned and didnt actually know the guy. I thought he said sell them, but buying them would make more sense. Either way it's a completely ridiculous reason to ban someone, let alone permanently. I only recall that he said on raidcall that they mailed him saying about either buying or selling items too cheaply and that he said those items could be salvaged for more. So while exact details are hazy that was the jist of it.
Yes, absolutely sure. People were banned for "an exploit involving Salvaging" and all they did was salvage gear they bought cheaply. You better never pickpocket Cryptic/PWE directly (rough ADs come from them). Same can be said about the Radiance disaster, because selling the Stone to others who weren't qualified for the offer removed one incentive for the buyer to get ZEN for cash.
Discussions of disciplinary actions are not permitted on the forums and the staff which patrol the forums can not change the decision. The only course of action is to contact support.
Myself and the other mods have bought items from the AH to salvage. That's no different than merchanting as it was called in other games I played. If you could buy items from a shop in an unlimited supply and salvage it, though, that is an obvious exploit as well since at that point it would be an unlimited and non-timegated income source.
EDIT - Pinpointerror looked into this and the exploit involved manufacturing items via quests and/or shops to salvage. It was not for purchasing items from other players and salvaging.