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TR PvE - is it possible to top the charts?

enjyaenjya Member Posts: 23 Arc User
edited April 2014 in The Thieves' Den
yo all

i am playing as TR for some time now and i have read some of builds posted here.

My question is why can't i dps more than gwf? I understand that on trash TR's are worthless but why cant i even top gwf on boss fights? It's really noticable on DK where medicore gwf's have more dmg on chart than me xd. So if anyone has a build that tops gwf's then i wuould like to test it.

in short my build is http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=pa3:27bm0g:15ycb0,13j3k3k:100000:150000:1uu5z1&h=1&p=min

on DK boss i use
enc: SS, LB, ITC/B&S
daily: LA
and duelist flurry
passives are skillful and invisible infiltrator
i stay almost all the time in stealth for CA and feat bonus

MY atributes:
19 str
12 con
26 dex
12 int
10 wis
15 cha

MY stats are:
5,3k power
4k crit
2,7k ArP
2k Rec
280 CA bonus from artifact

MY main set is old GG set with longer stealth and +5% dmg in stealth
i also have femorian weapon set with p. vorpal

My pets:
blinkdog +5% CA
fire archont +5% dmg when mob has lower than 30% hp
sword +5% crit severity

my best hits were 350k continous crits and 124k LB but still behind 2 gwfs xd
Post edited by enjya on
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Comments

  • trippysmurf1trippysmurf1 Member Posts: 188 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2014
    Because deep gash is bugged on GWF. Esteena's TR build is about as good as it gets for PVE.
  • dysillusiondysillusion Banned Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    DK isn't a purely single-target fight. even with broken deep gash, on a pure 1-target fight TR's are definitely better.

    GG set sucks for PvE, it's an outdated PvP set, hence it has no power but instead has lifesteal as a set bonus. get swashbuckling captains ideally, or maybe master assassin's if you want even bigger lashing crits following your dailies. could afford to chop 1k crit rating out as well, as it yields crit % at a weaker rate past 3,000 (though given that your recovery and armor pen are already high, i don't know what you would switch it into - power?).

    our styles are pretty different though anyway.. i stealth no more than 20% of most fights, and in the boss fights that threaten my survival, more like 50-60% at most; remember that in groups you will almost always be getting combat advantage anyway due to being able to stand on the opposite side of the boss from other players.
  • enjyaenjya Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    i am not so sure about power since i tested it versus my gg set but it was a long time ago
    if i remember correctly i had 2k power on my gg set and banelorne build then i changed to pve build + swash and i had something like 5k power but my hits were weaker with ArP capped and crit +50%
    i tested it on the same party and same boss (DK) did 4-5 runs with gg set then on next gg switched for swash and changed build did 4-5 runs with the same party and saw lower hits or almost the same

    but as u sugested i will try it again so i guess i need to revisit T2 dungeons :P

    i also heard that deep gash is fixed from guild gwf
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The paingiver chart lists all damage done, so AOE classes pretty much own it. If you do 100 damage to one target and someone else does 50 damage each to three targets, they get 150 damage on the paingiver chart while you get 100. There isn't a separate tracker for single target damage.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    really a max DPS build -

    Paingiver is severely overrated.

    Last time i won Paingiver with my TR was in MC. Every other dungeon is very AoE based, that said I think i was running with opressors and sentinels :D

    just don't worry about it. Stack WR and dump DF into a target and it will die amazingly quickly.
  • evxlonewolfevxlonewolf Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I believe they should imply a ranking system!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Forsaken Angels Veteran Scorpion
  • ralexinorralexinor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It's possible to top DPS charts in overall dungeon vs lesser geared characters (or lesser skilled to an extent, but gear plays a bigger factor here). Any decently geared CW or GWF (probably HR too) will outdps you regardless of skill. I've gone 12mil vs 15mil against a pvorp CW but I'm pretty sure that CW was really bad. And no one should be outdpsing you in single target DPS if you play right, not even GWFs, even though it might look it because of burst damage.

    Running these skills -

    Trash clearing:
    Blitz
    Wicked Reminder
    Dazing Strike/Smoke Bomb/Lashing Blade (prefer dazing but you need high crit chance to be outdpsing LB, and it isn't easy to land the AoE on all 3 targets)
    Class features: Invisible Infiltrator, Tactics
    Dailies: Lurker's Assault, Whirlwind of Blades

    Single target (boss):
    Wicked Reminder
    Lashing Blade
    ITC/Shadow Strike

    Stats:
    6k power (swash buff 7k)
    50% critical chance
    24.1% armor penetration
    2k recovery (swash buff 3k, still pointless though)

    Gear:
    Fomorian weapons
    Swashbuckling Captain
    Cat (would go ioun stone if I had one or could be bothered to care about my TR, for more power, recov is trash here)
    Ancient Excorcist's Necklace of Blessings
    Pyrotechnic Bands x2
    Smiting Nefarious Belt
    Rank 7-8 Radiants and Darks
    Perfect Vorpal and Soulforged

    Attributes and race (not optimal, was **** when I rolled this):
    22 str
    24 dex
    Race: elf (lewl that crit so op, not)
    everything else is irrelevant (maybe was different, can't remember my rolls atm)

    Feats: basically every damage feat, in last tier, Disciple of Strength maxed and 2 points in Scoundrel Training

    Your damage will rely on CWs using singularity.

    On singularity:
    1) WB for II and power buff (LA works too), WR, Dazing Strike, (smoke bomb from stealth), WR, DF to aoe bleed, WR, hope someone can pull the mobs together again, repeat, blitz after WR is at 5 stacks and you have the OC buff or when it's on cd
    2) WB for II and power buff (LA works too), WR from stealth, Dazing Strike, DF bleed as much as possible, WR spam, blitz spam once mobs split

    There's some other rotations but that's the basics of it, WR has some incredible damage IF used right. I'll be honest here and say that WR has the possibility to be one of the strongest AoEs in the game due to its low cd (3 seconds) and lack of target cap. With perfect vorpal and a few debuffs, you will average 10-15k crits on WR (higher or lower depending on debuffs and buffs), every 3 seconds IDEALLY on a 15 mob singularity. 150k damage if you crit everything every 3 seconds, theoretically if you had more mobs bunched in the 3' cone then you could get up to 1mil per 3 seconds in theory (will never happen probably though). Compared to other classes it's not much, especially when you look at how situational it is, but it has potential and it's a good debuff for the party.

    However, one of the other issues TR is so bad in pve (apart from abysmal aoe damage and nothing needing single target), is that we're a "damage per second" class, not burst, when it comes to aoe because of blitz, dazing and wr, our only aoe skills. Things are going to die before you have a chance to put noticeable DF bleeds on everything, and before you can build up your WR damage. Also because people generally suck (esp pugs) at keeping mobs together and all your damage (except blitz) relies on mobs being together.

    Also I'm not particularly fond of WB because of the target cap and the low damage. It's depressing when it does a lot less damage than a CW encounter lol (you'll average 20k crits unless you're very good at checking situational stuff like OC). It's pretty much a free encounter, and still relatively more useful than LA since you're using encounters which have cooldowns, but LA is far better for boss fights.

    At any rate, the conditions for you to top DPS charts:

    1. vs lesser geared people.
    2. vs abysmally skilled people (and even then you still won't outdps CWs/GWFs of similar gear)
  • kuyabaykuyabay Member Posts: 56
    edited March 2014
    I have to concur with the above posts. Our pve damage is subpar due to the way dungeons are designed. I regularly run VT on my Gwf, cw, and tr. While they're similarly geared, my gwf and cw often top the paingiver chart, while my tr is usually an embarrassing last. I don't mean close last, I mean like almost half of whoever is #1 on the chart. Most of the time I feel like I'm being carried.

    This is the reason why no one wants a tr on their dungeon runs unless you're running with guildies or friends. Most people just look at the charts and say we're useless. The sad reality is until we get to the last boss, this is true. Our aoe is abysmal, and the scenario described above, using our pathetic aoes in a sing, is much more difficult due to kb and aoe damage dish out by the mobs.

    Suggestion: Increase the range of our aoe skills. Make dr and ds have a bigger range and able to hit more targets, make blitz no target cap. I don't see how this affects pvp, but it would put us in the same range as other dps classes and not make people bail when the see a tr in the group.
  • willsommerswillsommers Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 103
    edited March 2014
    enc: SS, LB, ITC/B&S

    Why are you not using wicked reminder? Any TR in PVE should always be using wicked reminder on boss. It's really the only thing you bring to the party and even that isn't all that much. The difference between being slightly useful or an anchor. TR will never top overall DPS in dungeons given similar gear/experience group. What you can do, is in a fight like valindra, or MC, look at damage done after getting to the boss. You should be top damage from the time you get to the boss until the boss is down. If not you were a wasted slot in the dungeon. Also your recovery is low and you should take the AP gain class feature. Bleeds in stealth and lurkers are most of your damage. Getting into lurkers as much as possible will increase your overall damage. It's a story of the tortoise and hare. You are trying to be hare (lol 124k max deeps!) when you want to be the tortoise.

    In say VT, unless you are really trying to farm the dungeon super fast, it really doesn't matter what you take to get to the boss. A single TR is a nice addition there given they can stack wicked reminder and keep bleeds on boss. Also in that particular instance a TRs mobility can come in handy with an inexperienced group or in case mistakes are made.

    Even a 17k GS TR will not outdps a 14k CW or HR that knows what they are doing (or maybe even not) through a dungeon. You could probably lower that to 12-13k if they had a perfect vorpal, but that is uncommon to have such a high level enchant with that low of a GS. Even if you are constantly using wicked reminder, dazing on singularities, and constantly keeping bleeds up it just isn't possible. Right after beta? Sure, but because of PVP TR damage hasn't gotten nerfed into oblivion. GG cryptic, GG.

    But short answer - TR sucks thanks to PVP and the inability of Cryptic to balance classes for different content.
  • enjyaenjya Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    i didnt use WR because i didnt see any difference in dmg when applied 5 stacks of this also its hard to have wr x 5 on boss + bleed from DF since i would have to WR after every DF without pause and i still need to position myself and dodge attacks. In most boss fights if i dont have SS for stealth refill then i only have it one per 30 sec or so and with this i lose stealth bonus. Also i didnt make any large scale tests about WR so i relied on LB for info about it. Thats why i decieded to make stealth oriented pve build. But after reading all your replies i am eager to test your advice since it wont cost me anything but can increase my pve experience.

    If anyone has anything to add just post your thoughts and i will be sure to read them, thx
  • ralexinorralexinor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It's not that hard unless the boss teleports a lot - also you use ITC to avoid said damage (unless knockbacks). WR has a cooldown of 3-4 seconds and the debuff duration is 6 seconds, so yes, you pretty much should be using it off cooldown/after every DF. Time your dodges, time your WRs, time your ITCs and you should not have any problems with keeping up WR stacks.

    Also - as a piece of advice, keep track of your DF bleeds. If you have a good crit bleed at 10 stacks, you can weave in a few Sly Flourishes instead of doing DF again and resetting the bleed. While DF isn't as good as it used to be, this way you can increase your DPS since most of your ST damage will come from the DF bleed.
  • malphaeousmalphaeous Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 88
    edited March 2014
    best way to know what you are really doing is DL ACT and the NW client. barring that in a boss fight the only one who should be able to pull boss aggro off you is the GF, if another class initiates a kite they make you useless, we aren't designed to chase mobs. However if you get aggro you should be able to hold it against all DPS based aggro. Threat generation for a GF works differently and is not based on DPS. so a good GF should be able to take/hold a mob even with a good TR. but a good GF also increases your DPS by allowing you to stand on the target and burn it down. you don't have to dodge as much if you aren't the primary target and you can maintain combat advantage even when your stealth is gone. if your CWS are throwing mobs off cliffs and bridges their damage goes even higher than normal 3 mobs off the edge at up to 100k each and you might be taken over with them so now you have to run back... I dont even engage trash when the CWS are throwing.
    they should add a single target category on the end of dungeon charts, I've seen a lot of talk in chat about the lack of usefulness of the TR and I believe a single target DPS category would eliminate that.
    its hard to explain to an AOE player that they aren't out DPSing you single target. but if you watch she speed at which the bosses health bar drops with you on it as opposed to without you. and when you have no tank watch the bosses aggro stay on you, youll see it yourself.
    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Did I mention, I do not have good intentions?
  • reddevilbsreddevilbs Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited March 2014

    Even a 17k GS TR will not outdps a 14k CW or HR that knows what they are doing (or maybe even not) through a dungeon.....

    Not agree! OK Im 18k dps TR and I can tell that all depends on the playing stile - positioning, calculating right time to start your encounters. I outbeat alot of 15k+ CW at all kind of dungeons.
    In my guild party, i play with 16k+ CW and if we play focused, I make 5-15% less dmg (depends of the dungeon).
    For example at Karru, until the area of first small dragons (i forgot their names) i usually make more dmg. At ToS and VT i make more or less than 5% dmg than him.
    Something about my character - Drow / -10% of target defense/
    At boss fights i use ItC, LB, Smoke bomb OR Wicked reminder OR Delf Strike-(only at VT and rarely at MC)
    Dailies - SE and Lurker's Assault.
    Some stats unbuf: 7k+ power, 3,9k+ crit, 2,9k+ AP, 2,6k+ recovery, 2,4k defense, 1,5k LS.
    I play with full set of swash = 1000 power and 1000 recovery more in every battle.
    Stealth is used only to positioning at the right place for combat advantage.
  • ralexinorralexinor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    reddevilbs wrote: »
    Not agree! OK Im 18k dps TR and I can tell that all depends on the playing stile - positioning, calculating right time to start your encounters. I outbeat alot of 15k+ CW at all kind of dungeons.

    GS honestly means nothing. Note that willsommers said a "14k CW or HR that knows what they are doing". I've outdps'd CWs quite easily on my 14.1k GS TR (even before the shard nerf, when CWs did even more damage), but said CWs were (imo) scrubs that sucked at their class. Or at the very least, I outgeared them by a lot.

    You will never outdps a GWF, HR, or CW with similar skill and gear. Not even close. TR damage just isn't enough.
  • enjyaenjya Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Then i guess i need to improve my dps since even if i attacked boss first i would lose agro at some point to my guild gwf :/
    I also noticed yesterday on VT runs that i was second in dps after gwf, he had 18 mil and me 10 mil if i remmember good. But that only means that cw's on that runs were so-so since i usually am higher only than dc xD.

    I finally got full swash set and full best pvp set for testing. First i will go with swash + dps build like u advised then after a week i will change to pvp set + my present build and of course i will compare them. But now i ask myself how am i going to compare them? Should i only look and LB highest crits? Or maybe look at charts and see if i do more dmg overall? Or maybe combat log? Are there any plugins or programs to monitor my dps on dungeons?
  • malphaeousmalphaeous Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 88
    edited March 2014
    enjya wrote: »
    Or maybe combat log? Are there any plugins or programs to monitor my dps on dungeons?

    you can download ACT ( Advanced Combat Tracker) and the NW client for it. it works as an external dmg meter and parses the combat log for you. there is no real way to know your personal DPS either single target or AoE without it. The biggest thing to remember is that the burst damage helps but your sustained damage is king in a boss fight, things like DF that fill the screen with numbers. some bosses will stay on you when stealthed others will not, the ones that do can be held while maintaining combat advantage for a good part of the fight. I have yet to play with a GWF who can tank for me, that does not mean they arent out there, GWFs do have skills like GFs that generate high threat but most of those seem to be AoE threat generation. IDK if they can generate high single target aggro without being top Damage on that mob or not. I do know however that a good GF can hold a mob and even take it from me if I attack first without doing a lot of damage, that is their job.
    we have one job in this game, kill bosses we have to excel at it or others with more versatility will take it from us. if there were more real boss fights ( where the boss is more than the adds) or more large single target trash mobs we might top the meters, but the devs here have seen fit to throw a ton of trash at us rather than make the boss harder.
    its getting better since the introduction of MC and VT and I hope IWD holds more real boss fights in store for us, but in all honesty until the need for high single target DPS becomes more apparent our class will not be seen as a necessity.
    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Did I mention, I do not have good intentions?
  • karakla1karakla1 Member Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Does the bonus (if you have all 4 parts) of the swashbuckle activate by ALL your powers or only red or only the green ones?
    plat.png
    Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
  • enjyaenjya Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    swash bonus activates when u use ur powers like at-wills or encounters so after just one DF u have all 3 stacks of this.

    thx malphaeous for info on ATC
  • rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ralexinor wrote: »
    I've outdps'd CWs quite easily on my 14.1k GS TR (even before the shard nerf, when CWs did even more damage), but said CWs were (imo) scrubs that sucked at their class....

    Few CW know how to play their class properly, most don't. CW is not a weak class. It's just...complicated. When they do know their asses from their heads, they are REALLY INCREDIBLY GOOD YOU CAN'T EVEN HOPE TO BEAT 'EM. Just my two cents.

    CW requires a massive amount of brains to figure.
    TR requires excellent timing and hand-eye coordination.
  • malphaeousmalphaeous Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 88
    edited March 2014
    it doesnt take a good CW to top the meter, all it takes is good AoE, and knowing when to throw mobs over the edge, If the TR does 3k points to one target and the CW does 1k points each to 10 targets the CW is ahead. when mobs are thrown over the side I have seen numbers as high as 100k on my GF, CWs can throw large groups over the side and in such a case the TR doesn't even get to hit a mob or in some cases can be taken over the edge with them, which means you are running back and the CWs are still DPSing while you run. this doesnt take a lot of brains for them to accomplish, in fact failure to top the charts as an AoE class in a game this AoE heavy is truly an epic fail. in places that are less trash heavy and where boss fights are in fact boss fights we can compete with the AoE classes.
    they seem to have been moving towards this since MC. but topping the meter doesnt make a CW really incredibly good or even smart. it makes them an AOE class who knows they are an AoE class.
    In WoW the rogue was also the king of single target DPS, but as the dungeons got more trash mob dependent the rogue saw lower spots on the meters in places like Molten Core and BWL the rogue could top the charts because even the trash was big and had a lot of HP and you seldom got them in large quantities. The truth is that if you read the class descriptions the CW isnt even a DPS class they are a controller which means that their job is primarily CC. but given the games current 5 man dungeon template and the great amount of trash in the dungeons we need the CWS to do big damage.
    The meters also show damage above and beyond actual damage taken by the mob. Most of the small trash mobs in epic dungeons have around 5-10k HP and can be one shoted by almost anyone, if you do 25k with LB on a mob with 5k HP you really only did 5k. now multiply this by all the mobs in the AOE radius, or all the mobs being thrown over the side taking massive amounts of damage. this means the meters are in fact inaccurate. and they will always be this way.
    the truth is the devs did their best to make the dungeons less dependent on group dynamic than other games and to a large extent succeeded but the end result was that one class became more desirable than others and the other classes became more of a fill out the group because you don't have enough CWs kind of thing.
    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Did I mention, I do not have good intentions?
  • enjyaenjya Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ok i have my first outlook on some things u suggested at 3 runs of CN

    i now have full swash with esteena build
    6,5k power
    3,3k crit
    2,5k ArP
    1,9k Recovery

    Skills on mobs:
    enc: WR, LB, Blitz / passive: tactics, S.I. / wirlwind for daily
    Skills on boss:
    enc: WR, LB, ITC / passive: I.I. , S.I. / lurker for daily

    I tried doing what u wrote about WR and i guess this only works for random pt made from lfg since almost noone in my guild uses sing on mobs xd they prefer to use oppressive force since it makes bigger dmg but when they did use sing by mistake i could hit all mobs with WR. Also 1-3 boss fights are soo quick that i dont have the time to stack 5 WR on boss even used in stealth. Another thing to note is that its impossible to have 5 stacks of WR on last boss there all the time. Most of the time on boss i didnt even have the time to use LB or even daily if i wanted to have WR on him thanks to DF "auto move to boss breath attack" animation. Gennerally i think i am too pessimistic right now to this new style so i will have to play with it for a while also i think i had more dmg on charts with this new build.
    this 3 runs i was dead last but oh well might as well post results
    run 1 / 2 / 3
    my 10,6 mil / 11,2 mil / 12,4 mil
    nr 1 in party 26 mil / 24 mil / 22 mil
    in pt was 1 tr, 1 gwf, 2 cw and 1 dc so i was on 4 place all the time
  • malphaeousmalphaeous Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 88
    edited March 2014
    with WR everybody gets a damage buff because the mobs get a def debuff so overall this will increase the CWs DPS as well however if it closes the gap between you it might threaten their feelings of superiority;)
    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Did I mention, I do not have good intentions?
  • reddevilbsreddevilbs Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    WR works perfect, but if u have permanent party, better to discuss with them which skill is more valuable.
    For example, my usual party members are 2xCW, 1xGF, 1xGWF. Their opinion is that better to use Smoke Bomb at Karru, ToS and SP, and WR at FH, CN, VT and Malabog. In this manner (SB + CW's Steal Time) we manage to make almost perma stun on controlled mobs. Smoke bomb works perfect at first and second boss fights, when spawning lot of mobs ( exception VT and MC-malabog king )
    At final boss fights, I use bomb only at ToS ( we have too much dps, so better to stun those ninjas and spiders cuz they make huge dmg to CWs).
  • enjyaenjya Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Early bosses go down in less than 10 sec so i dont even bother to change my skill set for them anymore since by the time i would do so the boss would be dead already xd i think it would be better to change their rank to elite mobs rather than boss class. Any other trash than from CN/VT dies in few seconds. I just go near mobs try to use at least all skills once and pray for critics. I think i need to change my party xd since i wont test anything like that.

    Smoke Bomb? sry but if trash dies in few sec the same with bosses exept last and for the last i use ITC then i dont think i need it :P.

    Another issue is perma controll on mobs and i ask who needs this? There is nothing more boring than clearing dungeon without any kind of fun actions like agroing all mobs to next boss and haveing fun killing them in all that chaos where u can laugh at ur guildies for dieing like randoms xD. But i also understand that perfect control on mobs is a must for maxing dps or fast runs for AD.
  • willsommerswillsommers Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 103
    edited March 2014
    in pt was 1 tr, 1 gwf, 2 cw and 1 dc so i was on 4 place all the time

    Expect to be below AOE DPS classes always on overall damage. You should beat them on bosses. By bosses I don't mean silly little "elite mobs", but real ones like in MC/VT/etc. This wasn't the case during Beta (where TRs would regularly top DPS charts), but TRs were nerfed into the ground due to PVP QQ. If you got into other threads you'll see PVP whiners asking for more TR nerfs in damage, stealth, who knows everything. Yet that same CW can go into PVE and be the best class. Devs balance this game solely off PVP and it's getting old.

    Dazing strike is another one to keep in during trash clears. doesn't have the downtime of lashing blade and even without sing you should be able to hit 3+ mobs with it. With your setup (assuming pvorpal) you should get crit of 25k-30k+ on each dazing strike/mob.

    I run a lot of DK runs with sub-par class compositions and other dungeons. No CW, no DC, smokebomb can be nice to have. Roll 2 HR, 2 GWF, and TR in T2 can get interesting. No faceroll CW+DC groups.
  • enjyaenjya Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Pt without cw or dc? sounds like fun :D and yes i have p.vorpal

    Another difference to my build is almost no stealth throu the fight and i mean last boss CN. In my build i had stealth almost all the time so i had only crits in LB but right now i only have it on start of battle witch is annoying xd. on boss fights i get small dmg all the time so my stealth metter fills up very slowly so my question is should i wait for stealth with LB? or just use it when not on cd? I thought about doing tab -> DF -> LB combo but then my LB is just wasting time waiting for stealth to fill up xd and useing it without crit hurts my dps :<

    Another thing i have noted but offtopic LA can actually be a means of defence since it can teleport u behind or near target espescially good when tanking boss and he makes a swing attack then u just use LA and u stand a bit inside a boss and he doesnt hit u :P
  • malphaeousmalphaeous Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 88
    edited March 2014
    I love WR regardless of the situation, WR is not a high dmg skill in itself and ST for trash it doesn't buff your DPS much (Although in large groups with Sing it definitely does) but its fast. im truly not worried about trash mobs anywhere. Trash is not my job and the only reason I engage them at all is so im not just on AF chasing the CWs through the dungeon. if they aren't using Sing ( which the ones in my guild do) I pick the biggest mob pull him out of the AoE and kill him. I dont have anything for added stealth but I do use it every time its lit, hard to beat free Combat Advantage, and besides its fun to see the little purple question marks over dead bodies. as far as changing skills, I enter a dungeon with the skills I intend to use on the bosses. We usually have a GF with us so I don't have to tank except the beholder in CN, we've found rogue tanking is the best way to go on that fight. ands I use ITC on every boss or high AoE group, so I don't have to dodge out of the self centered AoE as much, this is a huge boost to my DPS. If I do have to boss tank I still use ITC this allows me to pretty much face tank them and dodge a lot less. As I said in a previous post some bosses go crazy when you stealth others don't, if the boss stays on you when stealthed then stealth liberally and use LA. If the boss goes crazy don't stealth you lose DPS chasing them down, and use SE. and that's the way, uh huh uh huh I like it!

    as far as LB use it when not on CD but Don't interrupt your DF with it, DF is your biggest dmg spam WR between DFs keep a full 5 stacks on the boss you dont hurt your DPS with LB if it is between flurries esp if you have around 50% crit and yeah LA does work as a mini teleport the only place ive found that to be bad is on the brain at the end of DV IDK if they have fixed this or not because here I point at the ground to LA but I've been teleported inside the brain ( Which means in the acid) and been unable to get out... you can also use BB as a defensive, I used to do this when I first started playing BB when my pot timer is down by time its over I can pot, but I onlt suggest that if you are having trouble staying alive, the boss goes crazy even though you are still on him and might kill someone else or move to a place that you don't want him ( like in the middle of all the trash mob AoE) I do play with BB in T1s because its fun , and I love the evil laugh. but any place I have to be at my best I keep LB, ITC and WR for encounters, LA and SE for Dailies and DF with CoS for at wills. COS isn't a lot but it lets me do some DMg while waiting for the red circle to go away if ITC is down.


    as far as balancing based on PvP its common practice, once a game gets going , people start QQing and the devs listen, happened in WoW too. the funny thing is , the majority of this game is PVE, like in WoW but the bad players whine and the devs listen. I guess you cant expect much more. BTW it wasnt just in Beta , i started at launch and when I hit 60 it was rare that I didn't top the meters, even with my build being slightly off and a lower dmg choice of powers. now its rare that I DO top the meters, occasionally I will, I assume I had a good run while the CWs had a bad one. but there again my CWs tend to kill everything and throw nothing over the edge ( more fun that way, and more loot).
    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Did I mention, I do not have good intentions?
  • kozi001kozi001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I hope after that now that the bugged deep gash was fixed TRs will be back to wanted on dungeons as melee.

    W/o deep gash TR will do the highest single target dmg again and "TR on boss" and "LF TR" phrases may go back to chat like in mod1...
  • willsommerswillsommers Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 103
    edited March 2014
    TRs will be back to wanted on dungeons as melee.

    Destroyer GWF getting damage buff. Deep gash change aimed at crappy sent builds. Even still, if TR did a few % more damage no one would take a TR over a GWF, because 90% of dungeon is not the boss. So shave a few minutes off a boss fight (maybe), or save much more time clearing to the boss?
  • kozi001kozi001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Idk
    Maybe in short dungeons like DK or in dungeons where boss fight is taking a significant part of the whole run like in VT maybe TRs shall be wanted again over Gwfs.
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