Lantern of revelation then quick fanning the flame. Or oppressive force.
Lantern of revelation doesn't always get the TR since they have range attacks, also dat cooldown. As for oppressive force, same problems and you waste your daily just to get the chance to have the TR show up
Lantern of revelation doesn't always get the TR since they have range attacks, also dat cooldown. As for oppressive force, same problems and you waste your daily just to get the chance to have the TR show up
^^ this, and for some reason people seem to think you are the only one with a artifact, what about the TR? I have seen quite a few lately with the **** emblem, then they just do not die.
Also something I noticed since on my CW I run MOF i seem to take reflection damage for every single proc of my dots, that tends to add up even faster than i can damage them. I have literally killed myself by not getting hit just getting reflected and not brought them to even 80%
^^ this, and for some reason people seem to think you are the only one with a artifact, what about the TR? I have seen quite a few lately with the **** emblem, then they just do not die.
Also something I noticed since on my CW I run MOF i seem to take reflection damage for every single proc of my dots, that tends to add up even faster than i can damage them. I have literally killed myself by not getting hit just getting reflected and not brought them to even 80%
people run with the deflection boon from sharandar, and going with good deflection, seeing as the boon has no cd or limit to how many times it procs. ITC gives tr's a 5 second constant deflect even if not activated during stealth.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Don't forget about good HRs though, they can perma CC you to death. I only have lvl 22 HR and take great pleasure in rooting and constricting the hell outta people - especially CWs - and I only have greens. Can't wait for my full skill setup.
Go full combat. MR>BR>FS = dead squishy and severely damaged pretty much anything else. Just respecced my HR to this and it was stupid the number of kills I was getting last night.
Without effective CC the vast majority of CWs are just sitting ducks and die as soon as anyone takes notice of them.
I run a pretty standard Renegade build with a lowish GS (around 10k). Pre patch I could at least kite when an opponent got me 1v1 and had a chance of winning. Now I just get dead. Real fast. EF has such a short duration that I'm seriously considering removing it from my bar, and I already dropped Repel. Sure, I can do a boatload of DPS while I'm alive - but unless my team runs interference I spend more time at the campfire than I do actually fighting.
CW could use something making their CC alittle more viable in pvp.. but they arent worthless.
They are team reliant.
Honestly its become painfully clear at this point the Devs want to move the Control Wizard completely away from control powers. They have been nerfing the HAMSTER out of that side of the class almost since Beta. One has to wonder why they chose "Control" Wizard as the type of Wizard represented at this point.
Soooo... because of this direction, they're going to have to do two things...
Shorten the Casting time on Sudden Strike so it goes off much faster as PvP moves far too fast for it to be used.
Shards of Avalanche needs to be a case where you get the Shardplosion effect immediately and without missing, while the proning part of it has been nerfed, the damage side can be utilized if that happens.
While the Control Wizard obviously will never be about control again. It can be made competitive if its primary damage encounters normally used in PvE after the control side was nerfed there are made viable in PvP.
If they are going to move the Control Wizard away from Control, then those two changes will allow them to be at least a little more competitive in the PvP side. Since they cannot really control anymore, you're going to have to move them to high instant damage, low health class again.
I land choke and repel, i usually land choke BEFORE i try to repel, it helps..
The current state requires incredibly fast reaction time, and no lag. I enjoy pvp on my wiz, and i am quite adept at it. One thing is a must, and thats stamina. You need stam regen, the boon, the arti, and the feat. You have to be able to move ALOT.
making shard prone and explode immediately, is a nerf, I can use shard to prone someone twice, before i explode it if i land it right. Learn to properly use it and youll understand.
The issue with shard, is that it can be erased, by 90% of all CC, choke, repel, all of it wipes out shard.
Thats why i dont use it, and i counter it with a repel.
I played 2 matches to get my dailies as 11k GS CW (no armor/weapon enchantment, a couple of R7s, the rest are R5s, Lantern blue artifact). My damage was laughable, I have 24% arp and I hit HR for 3900 with Icy Rays (Combat Log 3900(9800)), so my arp feels useless now. But still with that laughable damage I could win duels against higher geared players as I could survive long enough to land all my encounter combo 2+ times.
Fighting GWF is a nightmare now, zero chances, absolutely zero chances, I can no longer deal 20k+ burst damage with Icy Rays + Ice Knife to win a duel, I hit them like a wet noodle now (and I'm saying about equally geared players).
This is just my 2 cents, I realize that 11k CW proves nothing, just giving an opinion.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
I played 2 matches to get my dailies as 11k GS CW (no armor/weapon enchantment, a couple of R7s, the rest are R5s, Lantern blue artifact). My damage was laughable, I have 24% arp and I hit HR for 3900 with Icy Rays (Combat Log 3900(9800)), so my arp feels useless now. But still with that laughable damage I could win duels against higher geared players as I could survive long enough to land all my encounter combo 2+ times.
Fighting GWF is a nightmare now, zero chances, absolutely zero chances, I can no longer deal 20k+ burst damage with Icy Rays + Ice Knife to win a duel, I hit them like a wet noodle now (and I'm saying about equally geared players).
This is just my 2 cents, I realize that 11k CW proves nothing, just giving an opinion.
Try fighting a TR or a HR, they will give you more nightmares
Try fighting a TR or a HR, they will give you more nightmares
I did and I won every duel even against permastealth TR. CWvsHR or vsTR seems pretty balanced at that gear lvl, GFs and GWFs are unkillable.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Reliance on team = BIG weakness.
By the way, I have a piece of advice for people that seem to have issues with CWs.
If a certain CW is good, assign a skilled GWF, GF or HR on him. That person 1st responsibility would be to follow CW around as soon as they are on the field.
I guarantee you that this will stop the kills and debuffs and render the CW almost useless, because he will have to kite and run, since facetanking these classes is NOT possible. And after running around, the CW will die. If he has a DC, the DC won't be able to save him either. All you need is similar skilled and geared CW hunter.
If your team has some CWs as adversaries and they prance around throwing spells, your team is bad and not doing their job - simple as that. At this moment, there's no CW in this game that's hard to kill for a skilled HR or GWF. Why not profit from that?
Lantern of revelation doesn't always get the TR since they have range attacks, also dat cooldown. As for oppressive force, same problems and you waste your daily just to get the chance to have the TR show up
Yeah, sure, better run around and scream, you'll kill that rogue for sure. :cool:
With repel, 3 teleports and a horse you should be able to run from any single class indefinitely. Running away all game isn't any fun, but it makes you just as effective to your team as the guy chasing you is to his.
With repel, 3 teleports and a horse you should be able to run from any single class indefinitely. Running away all game isn't any fun, but it makes you just as effective to your team as the guy chasing you is to his.
Repel regularly fails to push an enemy one inch now. It's extremely unreliable.
Other classes have their own gap closers and speed-boosters. You can't run indefinitely from most of them, and as pers3phone said, time spent running for your life is time spent not being able to do much of anything useful.
In one of my matches today on CW, I started the fight at the 2nd node thinking that I was in for a rough ride because the other team's 2 CWs and HR all turned to target me, and I wasn't able to secure any kills before I had to hide behind team mates and run off to regen. However, I noticed that they forgot about me as soon as I disappeared from sight, and no one seemed dedicated to watching for me, so I spent the rest of the match swooping in and cleaning up. At one point I went to back cap them alone, killed their CWs, and successfully withdrew thanks to my team's HR coming in to back me up when he noticed that their whole team was coming for me. By the end I was 26-0 from 1v1/1v2ing their squishies and from jumping into big fights unnoticed.
TL;DR: CW is so dependent on team support and/or the other team being a disorganized mess that it's not even funny. There are no more wham-bam 30k+ Icy Rays or Ice Knife one-shots even on weaker targets. If a CW snowballs that hard in a fight, there's either a huge skill/gear gap or the opposing team allowed it to happen.
By the way, I have a piece of advice for people that seem to have issues with CWs.
If a certain CW is good, assign a skilled GWF, GF or HR on him. That person 1st responsibility would be to follow CW around as soon as they are on the field.
I guarantee you that this will stop the kills and debuffs and render the CW almost useless, because he will have to kite and run, since facetanking these classes is NOT possible. And after running around, the CW will die. If he has a DC, the DC won't be able to save him either. All you need is similar skilled and geared CW hunter.
If your team has some CWs as adversaries and they prance around throwing spells, your team is bad and not doing their job - simple as that. At this moment, there's no CW in this game that's hard to kill for a skilled HR or GWF. Why not profit from that?
Reliance on team is the basis of PVP. All of this 1v1 talk is plain dumb. If you are every 1v1'ing anything for more than a few seconds you are playing PVP wrong as a CW. Yes you need a team or teammate to be truly effective but you cant have the burst dmg of a CW and think you should have the survivablity as well. Team composition is a huge factor more than ever with the recent changes. I know several CW's that are super hard to kill when they play smart and utilize PVP mechanics as the devs intended. Adapt fellow CWs dont give up...
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Reliance on team is the basis of PVP. All of this 1v1 talk is plain dumb. If you are every 1v1'ing anything for more than a few seconds you are playing PVP wrong as a CW. Yes you need a team or teammate to be truly effective but you cant have the burst dmg of a CW and think you should have the survivablity as well. Team composition is a huge factor more than ever with the recent changes. I know several CW's that are super hard to kill when they play smart and utilize PVP mechanics as the devs intended. Adapt fellow CWs dont give up...
You didn't get it
I play support 100%, shamefully so. I even run from fellow CWs if I feel it might end up wrong, return with teammate and kill them 2vs1. I even call for help like a sissy 3 yrs old girl.
However, when you face smart teams, they will single you out, and you will have to deal with people 1vs1 for a while (without having any heroic desire for this...). Sometimes teammates busy, can't help me either.
And nobody asked for plain survivability?!? I personally just want my full regen and CC back. The spike damage nerf is OK, but let me kite as I used to.
And all classes are reliant on team, however CW reliance is exaggerated.
Also... GWF and HR do more spike/overall damage than CW - please log PvP matches and analyze with ACT. And they can hold their own just fine.
I play support 100%, shamefully so. I even run from fellow CWs if I feel it might end up wrong, return with teammate and kill them 2vs1. I even call for help like a sissy 3 yrs old girl.
However, when you face smart teams, they will single you out, and you will have to deal with people 1vs1 for a while (without having any heroic desire for this...). Sometimes teammates busy, can't help me either.
And nobody asked for plain survivability?!? I personally just want my full regen and CC back. The spike damage nerf is OK, but let me kite as I used to.
And all classes are reliant on team, however CW reliance is exaggerated.
Also... GWF and HR do more spike/overall damage than CW - please log PvP matches and analyze with ACT. And they can hold their own just fine.
Smart teams should try to single you out but YOUR team should not let them get to you. Also you should never compare yourself to a GWF.....ever. I will give you the fact that repel is trash now and was one of my favorites.....
By the way, I have a piece of advice for people that seem to have issues with CWs.
If a certain CW is good, assign a skilled GWF, GF or HR on him. That person 1st responsibility would be to follow CW around as soon as they are on the field.
I guarantee you that this will stop the kills and debuffs and render the CW almost useless, because he will have to kite and run, since facetanking these classes is NOT possible. And after running around, the CW will die. If he has a DC, the DC won't be able to save him either. All you need is similar skilled and geared CW hunter.
You don't get it, do you? EVERY CLASS relies on his teammates in pvp. Even the gwf needs a competent enough team. The ranger is a squishy as well, and if theres nobody keeping those multiple cws off him, the best he can do is work on one of them. But the second a ranger gets EF'ed, hes virtually done. Once again, roots are pointless to a wizard, and CA was fixed, so the only thing that an hr has over a cw is now a moot point.
If your team has some CWs as adversaries and they prance around throwing spells, your team is bad and not doing their job - simple as that. At this moment, there's no CW in this game that's hard to kill for a skilled HR or GWF. Why not profit from that?
Youre teams cws should be stopping them from doing this... When I cw my target, first and foremost, are the enemy cws, followed by hrs and dcs. The cw is a crowd controller, which means that our priority is to stop people from doing things, and as such have the most array of abilities to do such. If youre not targeting priority targets its because a) youre getting overrun, or b)youre not targeting them. Bad teammates happen, but if youre not doing your job, don't whine if your frontlines(gwf/gf/tr) are getting overrun due to cws/hrs stopping them, its part of team play.
In a perfect world(heh), the gfs/gwfs node cap with dcs either on node with or slightly behind, the cws/hrs sit in the back pinging people/nullifying enemy hrs/cws, and trs sneak past to upset either hrs & cws, or backattack melees. Then again, that's in a perfect situation... it doesn't always work like that.
By the way, you RUN from enemy cws?! Even if theyre better than me, I go to keep their butts occupied, because that allows either my guys to come behind them, or in the least keep them occupied. 1 less cw controlling your teammates is 1 less person working on overrunning you.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
I land choke and repel, i usually land choke BEFORE i try to repel, it helps..
Thats cute, except that in the top-end of PVP, all you run into are perma-stealth TRs who are immune to CC when they pop out and GWF with unstoppable who are....IMMUNE TO CC and are tanky as hell.
Good advice for those starting in PVP, but against premades, better follow HAMSTER's advice and just stick to a support role ALWAYS running away and hiding behind your teammates
Comments
Lantern of revelation then quick fanning the flame. Or oppressive force.
It's possible, if you debuff the GWF, use shard, and your encounters crit - 2 rotations.
Or 1 rotation with Ice Knife crit.
However.
This requires the GWF to stay still :P And not chase after you&prone you to hell and back.
...and after that 6 seconds, if the TR's still alive and well...
...then wut?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
for me its like this
(ice rays on tab)
entangle > RoE > chill strike > ice rays > at will spam
( RoE on tab )
entangle > RoE > chill strike > RoE > ice ray > at will spam
still not used to using shard but will get to it soon
SENT IV GWF - PVP
Lantern of revelation doesn't always get the TR since they have range attacks, also dat cooldown. As for oppressive force, same problems and you waste your daily just to get the chance to have the TR show up
^^ this, and for some reason people seem to think you are the only one with a artifact, what about the TR? I have seen quite a few lately with the **** emblem, then they just do not die.
Also something I noticed since on my CW I run MOF i seem to take reflection damage for every single proc of my dots, that tends to add up even faster than i can damage them. I have literally killed myself by not getting hit just getting reflected and not brought them to even 80%
people run with the deflection boon from sharandar, and going with good deflection, seeing as the boon has no cd or limit to how many times it procs. ITC gives tr's a 5 second constant deflect even if not activated during stealth.
We're reliant on CC and it was heavily nerfed.
Without effective CC the vast majority of CWs are just sitting ducks and die as soon as anyone takes notice of them.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
They are team reliant.
Honestly its become painfully clear at this point the Devs want to move the Control Wizard completely away from control powers. They have been nerfing the HAMSTER out of that side of the class almost since Beta. One has to wonder why they chose "Control" Wizard as the type of Wizard represented at this point.
Soooo... because of this direction, they're going to have to do two things...
Shorten the Casting time on Sudden Strike so it goes off much faster as PvP moves far too fast for it to be used.
Shards of Avalanche needs to be a case where you get the Shardplosion effect immediately and without missing, while the proning part of it has been nerfed, the damage side can be utilized if that happens.
While the Control Wizard obviously will never be about control again. It can be made competitive if its primary damage encounters normally used in PvE after the control side was nerfed there are made viable in PvP.
If they are going to move the Control Wizard away from Control, then those two changes will allow them to be at least a little more competitive in the PvP side. Since they cannot really control anymore, you're going to have to move them to high instant damage, low health class again.
The current state requires incredibly fast reaction time, and no lag. I enjoy pvp on my wiz, and i am quite adept at it. One thing is a must, and thats stamina. You need stam regen, the boon, the arti, and the feat. You have to be able to move ALOT.
making shard prone and explode immediately, is a nerf, I can use shard to prone someone twice, before i explode it if i land it right. Learn to properly use it and youll understand.
The issue with shard, is that it can be erased, by 90% of all CC, choke, repel, all of it wipes out shard.
Thats why i dont use it, and i counter it with a repel.
Fighting GWF is a nightmare now, zero chances, absolutely zero chances, I can no longer deal 20k+ burst damage with Icy Rays + Ice Knife to win a duel, I hit them like a wet noodle now (and I'm saying about equally geared players).
This is just my 2 cents, I realize that 11k CW proves nothing, just giving an opinion.
Try fighting a TR or a HR, they will give you more nightmares
I did and I won every duel even against permastealth TR. CWvsHR or vsTR seems pretty balanced at that gear lvl, GFs and GWFs are unkillable.
By the way, I have a piece of advice for people that seem to have issues with CWs.
If a certain CW is good, assign a skilled GWF, GF or HR on him. That person 1st responsibility would be to follow CW around as soon as they are on the field.
I guarantee you that this will stop the kills and debuffs and render the CW almost useless, because he will have to kite and run, since facetanking these classes is NOT possible. And after running around, the CW will die. If he has a DC, the DC won't be able to save him either. All you need is similar skilled and geared CW hunter.
If your team has some CWs as adversaries and they prance around throwing spells, your team is bad and not doing their job - simple as that. At this moment, there's no CW in this game that's hard to kill for a skilled HR or GWF. Why not profit from that?
Shard on mastery, CoI, the laser beam, fanning the flame. Works extremely well.
Yeah, sure, better run around and scream, you'll kill that rogue for sure. :cool:
Repel regularly fails to push an enemy one inch now. It's extremely unreliable.
Other classes have their own gap closers and speed-boosters. You can't run indefinitely from most of them, and as pers3phone said, time spent running for your life is time spent not being able to do much of anything useful.
In one of my matches today on CW, I started the fight at the 2nd node thinking that I was in for a rough ride because the other team's 2 CWs and HR all turned to target me, and I wasn't able to secure any kills before I had to hide behind team mates and run off to regen. However, I noticed that they forgot about me as soon as I disappeared from sight, and no one seemed dedicated to watching for me, so I spent the rest of the match swooping in and cleaning up. At one point I went to back cap them alone, killed their CWs, and successfully withdrew thanks to my team's HR coming in to back me up when he noticed that their whole team was coming for me. By the end I was 26-0 from 1v1/1v2ing their squishies and from jumping into big fights unnoticed.
TL;DR: CW is so dependent on team support and/or the other team being a disorganized mess that it's not even funny. There are no more wham-bam 30k+ Icy Rays or Ice Knife one-shots even on weaker targets. If a CW snowballs that hard in a fight, there's either a huge skill/gear gap or the opposing team allowed it to happen.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Reliance on team is the basis of PVP. All of this 1v1 talk is plain dumb. If you are every 1v1'ing anything for more than a few seconds you are playing PVP wrong as a CW. Yes you need a team or teammate to be truly effective but you cant have the burst dmg of a CW and think you should have the survivablity as well. Team composition is a huge factor more than ever with the recent changes. I know several CW's that are super hard to kill when they play smart and utilize PVP mechanics as the devs intended. Adapt fellow CWs dont give up...
You didn't get it
I play support 100%, shamefully so. I even run from fellow CWs if I feel it might end up wrong, return with teammate and kill them 2vs1. I even call for help like a sissy 3 yrs old girl.
However, when you face smart teams, they will single you out, and you will have to deal with people 1vs1 for a while (without having any heroic desire for this...). Sometimes teammates busy, can't help me either.
And nobody asked for plain survivability?!? I personally just want my full regen and CC back. The spike damage nerf is OK, but let me kite as I used to.
And all classes are reliant on team, however CW reliance is exaggerated.
Also... GWF and HR do more spike/overall damage than CW - please log PvP matches and analyze with ACT. And they can hold their own just fine.
Smart teams should try to single you out but YOUR team should not let them get to you. Also you should never compare yourself to a GWF.....ever. I will give you the fact that repel is trash now and was one of my favorites.....
You don't get it, do you? EVERY CLASS relies on his teammates in pvp. Even the gwf needs a competent enough team. The ranger is a squishy as well, and if theres nobody keeping those multiple cws off him, the best he can do is work on one of them. But the second a ranger gets EF'ed, hes virtually done. Once again, roots are pointless to a wizard, and CA was fixed, so the only thing that an hr has over a cw is now a moot point.
Youre teams cws should be stopping them from doing this... When I cw my target, first and foremost, are the enemy cws, followed by hrs and dcs. The cw is a crowd controller, which means that our priority is to stop people from doing things, and as such have the most array of abilities to do such. If youre not targeting priority targets its because a) youre getting overrun, or b)youre not targeting them. Bad teammates happen, but if youre not doing your job, don't whine if your frontlines(gwf/gf/tr) are getting overrun due to cws/hrs stopping them, its part of team play.
In a perfect world(heh), the gfs/gwfs node cap with dcs either on node with or slightly behind, the cws/hrs sit in the back pinging people/nullifying enemy hrs/cws, and trs sneak past to upset either hrs & cws, or backattack melees. Then again, that's in a perfect situation... it doesn't always work like that.
By the way, you RUN from enemy cws?! Even if theyre better than me, I go to keep their butts occupied, because that allows either my guys to come behind them, or in the least keep them occupied. 1 less cw controlling your teammates is 1 less person working on overrunning you.
Thats cute, except that in the top-end of PVP, all you run into are perma-stealth TRs who are immune to CC when they pop out and GWF with unstoppable who are....IMMUNE TO CC and are tanky as hell.
Good advice for those starting in PVP, but against premades, better follow HAMSTER's advice and just stick to a support role ALWAYS running away and hiding behind your teammates