I cant understand the problem here... i started playing pvp 3 days ago and im sitting at 16k glory playing maybe 4 hours of pvp total...i had about 4k of previous GG events... so 12k in 4 hours... i feel its more than fair.
Also, once you get enough glory to get all the rewards... you will be again in the "what do i do with the glory now?" you were before...
in 45 mins you can get decent glory if you win, but... losing a bunch straight getting enough points to get glory, is FASTER
Quests aside, since they dont net ANYTHING more than once.
the point is, they reduced the glory per match, they made the matches almost 5x as long.
Thats kinda crappy.
Agreed. Glory is a highly sought after currency now. Farmers will play PVP for a few minutes, get their points, and sit in the spawn for the match to be over quickly.
I cant understand the problem here... i started playing pvp 3 days ago and im sitting at 16k glory playing maybe 4 hours of pvp total...i had about 4k of previous GG events... so 12k in 4 hours... i feel its more than fair.
Also, once you get enough glory to get all the rewards... you will be again in the "what do i do with the glory now?" you were before...
That's a very solid rate. 3k per hour even with both dailies is not easy to do, especially outside the event hours.
I don't mind the decreased glory but so much, largely because I'm not much of a pvper and with the more balanced matchs I'm actually winning some which means even with the lower glory I'm getting a lot more then I used to.
So you mean pvp should be designed around people playing it 6h a day? Well, that kind of posts ruins the entire thread imo. This isn't gonna happen. Ever.
what really ruins the thread is that the op himself says that the most efficient glory gain is in matches that don't last 15+ min and it's true.
also, nobody said 6h of matches. what i meant was that the actual good matches are being penalized for doing exactly what everyone wants in pvp, a good hard fight where everyone can respect each other for their skill instead of just glory/artifact farming.
If they gave more glory for the longer matches sure, it might be worth it. Since they both decreased the glory you gain AND over doubled the match time its really <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> trying to get glory now. if your both fighting tooth and nail and the game ends 1000 to 999 why the hell does the loosing team get 100 glory for a 1 hour fight? ohh yay that's right i have 2 pitiful quests for a whopping 500 glory each that i can do ONCE a day.... Pre patch i would get that in what 4-7 fights? so if you do more than 7 matches you are now being penalized by lower rewards AND those pathetic rewards are taking 2x- 4x as long to get? Pre patch i could farm up 24k in a day no problem post im lucky to get around 6-8k in a day between wait times, cant leave garbage matches to find a better one (and yes its a garbage match if either 1 player drops or your entire team is worthless and gets stomped into the ground) match times, and nerfed glory gains.... sure this is rewarding the casual scrub who only wants to get the 1k glory a day so they do 4 quick matches and dont care if they win or lose they just want the free glory. Sadly though this kills anyone that used to farm up glory to get items.
So the most efficient method of gaining glory would be now.... farming gg coins and exchanging them?
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hadrieleMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited March 2014
Sure my team lost, but it's not like I was in the bottom 5. After more than 20 minutes of fighting and more than 9000 points in this match, I was expecting to get maybe a little more than 292 Glory.
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
Agreed. Glory is a highly sought after currency now. Farmers will play PVP for a few minutes, get their points, and sit in the spawn for the match to be over quickly.
Sounds shockingly familiar, almost as if people claimed that this would happen when a leaver penalty was instituted. I've seen people get their points and sit in camp, get their points and hide behind the pillars in the top section of Riven, or get their points and just run around/hide in the other map.
Why?
When you seek to control their behavior by punishing them in an attempt to get them to stay in the game, they will do just the bare minimum to get what they want. Just like I said they would. Penalties for sitting in camp won't help either.
Solution?
Base the Glory reward off of several things, including indicators that show a player was active and trying throughout the match. For the losing team, things like these should be taken into account for the score:
Time spent fighting on point
Time spent fighting in general
Damage Taken
Damage Given
Along with the normal point scoring opportunities. Also take into account the GS differences (admittedly this is less important now with matchmaking in place). Base the losing reward on these and/or other measures that show a player was actively participating in the battle. Reward them more for close matches. Remove the Glory portion of the daily reward. Finally, remove the penalty for leaving, until such time as the main reason people leave is to exploit the system. Track these changes to see the impact they have on PvP matches, to see how they change the rate of people leaving matches. This would be a great indicator of the success of the PvP changes if you weren't penalizing people for it.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited March 2014
At this time the amount of individual points plays a minor role in the glory return.
Due to the new matchmaking system many players have suggested re-evaluating glory return to at least be based more on team points and time played. I suggest finding a thread like that and expressing your opinions.
hadrieleMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited March 2014
Base the Glory reward off of several things, including indicators that show a player was active and trying throughout the match. For the losing team, things like these should be taken into account for the score:
Time spent fighting on point
Time spent fighting in general
Damage Taken
Damage Given
Pretty solid ideas. Individual performance should have more weight on Glory rewards. I just lost a game where my entire team was top 5, winning team was bottom 5. I had more than 9000 points and got less than 300 Glory. Not really encouraging, is it? Lose a few more games in a row that way and you probably will just quit playing until your head cools off. I doubt that's the kind of player experience the devs want, so they should at least give rewards where rewards are due.
If I lost a game where I afk'd most of the time, then sure, punish me with a measly amount of glory. If I lost gloriously like the 300 Spartans did against Xerxes' army, then I think I should be compensated for my efforts accordingly.
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howitzer001Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 65Arc User
edited March 2014
I suggest you make as many threads about this as possible because consolidating your opinion into a single one on this forum doesn't get anyone's attention at Cryptic - ever.
I agree wholeheartedly that the amount of glory gain for the effort involved is absolutely asinine.
Sounds shockingly familiar, almost as if people claimed that this would happen when a leaver penalty was instituted. I've seen people get their points and sit in camp, get their points and hide behind the pillars in the top section of Riven, or get their points and just run around/hide in the other map.
Why?
When you seek to control their behavior by punishing them in an attempt to get them to stay in the game, they will do just the bare minimum to get what they want. Just like I said they would. Penalties for sitting in camp won't help either.
Solution?
Base the Glory reward off of several things, including indicators that show a player was active and trying throughout the match. For the losing team, things like these should be taken into account for the score:
Time spent fighting on point
Time spent fighting in general
Damage Taken
Damage Given
Along with the normal point scoring opportunities. Also take into account the GS differences (admittedly this is less important now with matchmaking in place). Base the losing reward on these and/or other measures that show a player was actively participating in the battle. Reward them more for close matches. Remove the Glory portion of the daily reward. Finally, remove the penalty for leaving, until such time as the main reason people leave is to exploit the system. Track these changes to see the impact they have on PvP matches, to see how they change the rate of people leaving matches. This would be a great indicator of the success of the PvP changes if you weren't penalizing people for it.
I have been thinking about something like this for a while now, but for actually fighting/killing/healing
At-wills: 1 glory (if it hits and not interrupted, only counts once each time it is used)
Encounters: 3 glory (if it hits and not interrupted, only counts once each time it is used)
Dailies: 5 glory (if it hits and not interrupted, only counts once each time it is used)
Buffs: 2 glory (per buff every 10 seconds)
Debuffs: 2 glory (per debuff every 10 seconds)
Kills: 10 glory (double if done on-node)
Revives: 10 glory (double if done on-node)
Capture: 10 glory
short matches will probably award around the same amount of glory, but at least it will scale for longer matches.
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howitzer001Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 65Arc User
It is faster way to gain glory by giving up at the begining and losing the match in 5 min, than actually fighting for 20+ and wining. I can see ppl in PvP who just as soon as they get 500 points, hide somewhere or run in circles and wait for pvp to end (Especialy when theres like 2 gwfs in other team).
Sadly, you are correct. I've fought matches that go for 30 minutes and gain diddly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for glory (less than 200). It's a total joke.
I suggest you make as many threads about this as possible because consolidating your opinion into a single one on this forum doesn't get anyone's attention at Cryptic - ever.
Completely incorrect.
In fact you have it backwards. The more discussion in one or two threads the better as it transcends single posts into an actual discussion with various view points. The more active one thread is the more the developers take note.
Let's not spread false information.
Especially information which makes my life more aggravating than it needs to be.
I have been thinking about something like this for a while now, but for actually fighting/killing/healing
At-wills: 1 glory (if it hits and not interrupted, only counts once each time it is used)
Encounters: 3 glory (if it hits and not interrupted, only counts once each time it is used)
Dailies: 5 glory (if it hits and not interrupted, only counts once each time it is used)
Buffs: 2 glory (per buff every 10 seconds)
Debuffs: 2 glory (per debuff every 10 seconds)
Kills: 10 glory (double if done on-node)
Revives: 10 glory (double if done on-node)
Capture: 10 glory
short matches will probably award around the same amount of glory, but at least it will scale for longer matches.
This would be FAR too easy to game.
Admittedly the current system of awarding points heavily favours certain classes, but I haven't see any much better suggestions.
Admittedly the current system of awarding points heavily favours certain classes, but I haven't see any much better suggestions.
i figured that scoring system would bring glory gain (at least for winning) close to what we have now and pre-update for the 15 min and less matches except that it will actually scale for longer matches, but this might make it too easy for botters.
Jesus people! Do both PVP dailies, do the GG PVP daily, farm T1 GG, trade then for glory... How easy do you want it to be to get the new gear? Just work with what you have or shhhh.
i figured that scoring system would bring glory gain (at least for winning) close to what we have now and pre-update for the 15 min and less matches except that it will actually scale for longer matches, but this might make it too easy for botters.
It was a good try, but it is really hard to come up with a system that is both fair and can't be (easily) exploited. Do post any ideas because even if they don't work then it might inspire someone else.
They hopefully reduced it to maybe add more things to buy with glory. Sure it might be a grind for newcomers, but it'll give other players something to work for. I speculate and hope.
Jesus people! Do both PVP dailies, do the GG PVP daily, farm T1 GG, trade then for glory... How easy do you want it to be to get the new gear? Just work with what you have or shhhh.
Who's Jesus? Anyway the GG trader is not permanent. It works well now, but won't be there forever.
Comments
Also, once you get enough glory to get all the rewards... you will be again in the "what do i do with the glory now?" you were before...
This absolutely. The problem isn't new though, but I like it's getting more attention now.
Agreed. Glory is a highly sought after currency now. Farmers will play PVP for a few minutes, get their points, and sit in the spawn for the match to be over quickly.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
That's a very solid rate. 3k per hour even with both dailies is not easy to do, especially outside the event hours.
what really ruins the thread is that the op himself says that the most efficient glory gain is in matches that don't last 15+ min and it's true.
also, nobody said 6h of matches. what i meant was that the actual good matches are being penalized for doing exactly what everyone wants in pvp, a good hard fight where everyone can respect each other for their skill instead of just glory/artifact farming.
Actually, exactly 15-minute wins are the most efficient. And the quicker the loss, the better.
Sounds shockingly familiar, almost as if people claimed that this would happen when a leaver penalty was instituted. I've seen people get their points and sit in camp, get their points and hide behind the pillars in the top section of Riven, or get their points and just run around/hide in the other map.
Why?
When you seek to control their behavior by punishing them in an attempt to get them to stay in the game, they will do just the bare minimum to get what they want. Just like I said they would. Penalties for sitting in camp won't help either.
Solution?
Base the Glory reward off of several things, including indicators that show a player was active and trying throughout the match. For the losing team, things like these should be taken into account for the score:
Time spent fighting on point
Time spent fighting in general
Damage Taken
Damage Given
Along with the normal point scoring opportunities. Also take into account the GS differences (admittedly this is less important now with matchmaking in place). Base the losing reward on these and/or other measures that show a player was actively participating in the battle. Reward them more for close matches. Remove the Glory portion of the daily reward. Finally, remove the penalty for leaving, until such time as the main reason people leave is to exploit the system. Track these changes to see the impact they have on PvP matches, to see how they change the rate of people leaving matches. This would be a great indicator of the success of the PvP changes if you weren't penalizing people for it.
Due to the new matchmaking system many players have suggested re-evaluating glory return to at least be based more on team points and time played. I suggest finding a thread like that and expressing your opinions.
Pretty solid ideas. Individual performance should have more weight on Glory rewards. I just lost a game where my entire team was top 5, winning team was bottom 5. I had more than 9000 points and got less than 300 Glory. Not really encouraging, is it? Lose a few more games in a row that way and you probably will just quit playing until your head cools off. I doubt that's the kind of player experience the devs want, so they should at least give rewards where rewards are due.
If I lost a game where I afk'd most of the time, then sure, punish me with a measly amount of glory. If I lost gloriously like the 300 Spartans did against Xerxes' army, then I think I should be compensated for my efforts accordingly.
I agree wholeheartedly that the amount of glory gain for the effort involved is absolutely asinine.
www.fusion-guild.org
Sir Howitzer - GF | Howitzer - HR
I have been thinking about something like this for a while now, but for actually fighting/killing/healing
At-wills: 1 glory (if it hits and not interrupted, only counts once each time it is used)
Encounters: 3 glory (if it hits and not interrupted, only counts once each time it is used)
Dailies: 5 glory (if it hits and not interrupted, only counts once each time it is used)
Buffs: 2 glory (per buff every 10 seconds)
Debuffs: 2 glory (per debuff every 10 seconds)
Kills: 10 glory (double if done on-node)
Revives: 10 glory (double if done on-node)
Capture: 10 glory
short matches will probably award around the same amount of glory, but at least it will scale for longer matches.
Sadly, you are correct. I've fought matches that go for 30 minutes and gain diddly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for glory (less than 200). It's a total joke.
www.fusion-guild.org
Sir Howitzer - GF | Howitzer - HR
Completely incorrect.
In fact you have it backwards. The more discussion in one or two threads the better as it transcends single posts into an actual discussion with various view points. The more active one thread is the more the developers take note.
Let's not spread false information.
Especially information which makes my life more aggravating than it needs to be.
This would be FAR too easy to game.
Admittedly the current system of awarding points heavily favours certain classes, but I haven't see any much better suggestions.
i figured that scoring system would bring glory gain (at least for winning) close to what we have now and pre-update for the 15 min and less matches except that it will actually scale for longer matches, but this might make it too easy for botters.
It was a good try, but it is really hard to come up with a system that is both fair and can't be (easily) exploited. Do post any ideas because even if they don't work then it might inspire someone else.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Who's Jesus? Anyway the GG trader is not permanent. It works well now, but won't be there forever.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
I think that the ability to trade in your old GG gear is temporary, but that the ability to trade GG coins for glory is permanent.