When I first done this dung there was the one big devil guy spawned at the end. I was on my CW (can't remember the GS it was ages ago) I do remember we've done it without a wipe but we were lead by an experienced CW there.
When I entered this hell hole again, final boss spawns were changed (no big guy at the end) but it still was some challenge (I was on a overgeared GF).
I agree that it is challenging at low GS, but mostly because players entering the dungeon, probably still, don't know their class very well.
Of course gear helps, let's you live over your mistakes, but some skill & minor tactic is still good to have
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
This fight used to be harder in open beta actually, there were more mage spawns iirc. I believe I first did it with a 9k party. It's not a hard fight, but it does require people to know what they are doing.
Yes, if u got even one not working together or doing what he is supposed to (which happens a lot due to language barrier and stuff), it doesnt matter what GS u have.
I can carry 10 - 11ks through a place like Karrundax with my tank because I can meat shield things long enough for the boss to die. The first two boss fights are incredibly messy and we will likely wipe a few times, but the point is I will drag a party home.
I cannot carry sub 10ks past Chartillifax with my tank.
This is only because a magus can prone stupid players who don't move out of a tiny red circle (it's VERY tiny) once every 4-5s, provided they don't kill these npcs. That makes two mistakes in one run. Two mistakes are enough for a wipe, and that's not completely illegitimate. People keep asking for bosses requiring strats. Here, you have one. It's not a big deal you may have to kill at most 8 npcs to make the boss fight smooth and easy.
I always say I can't heal stupid with my cleric. While it's not completely true anymore (with 15k+ you can heal stupid), a GF is in no way a class able to carry people either. I have one, I know it. If you want to carry people in MD you may want to roll a GWF (aoe dps), a CW (aoe dps) or a DC (with a pure healbot spec and a very high amount of power to carry ingorance). I've already seen a smart TR clearing adds with me/cleric when the rest of the team was mindlessly attacking the boss, including the GWF I was more or less asking repeatedly to do his job.
You want bosses with strats? You have one. And it's clearly not the harder one. It's definitely not an adds fest so many people seem to hate. It's also the first dungeon which isn't "ZERG ZERG RUN AHEAD LIKE MAD KILL KILL ASAP OMG DD IS RUNNING SMASH BUTTONS", like the rest of the game. Before the boss, you may use the chat to make sure others understand how it works! That's insane! At some point you guys will have to know what you want... :rolleyes:
This is only because a magus can prone stupid players who don't move out of a tiny red circle (it's VERY tiny) once every 4-5s, provided they don't kill these npcs. That makes two mistakes in one run. Two mistakes are enough for a wipe, and that's not completely illegitimate. People keep asking for bosses requiring strats. Here, you have one. It's not a big deal you may have to kill at most 8 npcs to make the boss fight smooth and easy.
I always say I can't heal stupid with my cleric. While it's not completely true anymore (with 15k+ you can heal stupid), a GF is in no way a class able to carry people either. I have one, I know it. If you want to carry people in MD you may want to roll a GWF (aoe dps), a CW (aoe dps) or a DC (with a pure healbot spec and a very high amount of power to carry ingorance). I've already seen a smart TR clearing adds with me/cleric when the rest of the team was mindlessly attacking the boss, including the GWF I was more or less asking repeatedly to do his job.
You want bosses with strats? You have one. And it's clearly not the harder one. It's definitely not an adds fest so many people seem to hate. At some point you guys will have to know what you want... :rolleyes:
actually, there r times when there are 2 maguses alive and combined with the aoe stun from dragon.....that's instant death since they tend to spam their flame pillar consecutively
This is only because a magus can prone stupid players who don't move out of a tiny red circle (it's VERY tiny) once every 4-5s, provided they don't kill these npcs. That makes two mistakes in one run. Two mistakes are enough for a wipe, and that's not completely illegitimate. People keep asking for bosses requiring strats. Here, you have one. It's not a big deal you may have to kill at most 8 npcs to make the boss fight smooth and easy.
I always say I can't heal stupid with my cleric. While it's not completely true anymore (with 15k+ you can heal stupid), a GF is in no way a class able to carry people either. I have one, I know it. If you want to carry people in MD you may want to roll a GWF (aoe dps), a CW (aoe dps) or a DC (with a pure healbot spec and a very high amount of power to carry ingorance). I've already seen a smart TR clearing adds with me/cleric when the rest of the team was mindlessly attacking the boss, including the GWF I was more or less asking repeatedly to do his job.
You want bosses with strats? You have one. And it's clearly not the harder one. It's definitely not an adds fest so many people seem to hate. At some point you guys will have to know what you want... :rolleyes:
COMPLETELY missed the point.
Strategy is good. BUT, when a dungeon that has the strategy requirements of a T2 is supposedly set for people in mostly blues, something is not right.
And of course a GF is a class capable of carrying people. By design that is exactly what it is intended to do. Provide combat advantage by holding aggro and shielding the rest of the team from damage.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
actually, there r times when there are 2 maguses alive and combined with the aoe stun from dragon.....that's instant death since they tend to spam their flame pillar consecutively
Add in the poison that slows you down (because the inexperienced guy tanking the dragon is panicking and turning it onto the group) and the Imps and you have yourself a real party.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
You want bosses with strats? You have one. And it's clearly not the harder one. It's definitely not an adds fest so many people seem to hate. It's also the first dungeon which isn't "ZERG ZERG RUN AHEAD LIKE MAD KILL KILL ASAP OMG DD IS RUNNING SMASH BUTTONS", like the rest of the game. Before the boss, you may use the chat to make sure others understand how it works! That's insane! At some point you guys will have to know what you want... :rolleyes:
I don't think that's the issue. Bosses being hard and requiring strategy is fine. The issue is with how the dungeon is classified: it's a T1, so low GS entry criterion, HAMSTER loot, lots of idiots in pugs.
Compare to say CT, CC or Idris, where ZOMG ZERG is an entirely acceptable strategy, this dungeon is a pretty large step in difficulty, team communication and tactics.
However when you get to PK, (a T2) zomg zerg becomes viable again, FH has basically one, fairly easily-implemented strategy, Karrundax is simply "zomg zerg, hope your deeps are high enough" and so on.
It's simply odd that a tactically-challenging dungeon is sitting there amongst the T1 facerolls, while a lot of equally facerolly dungeons are T2. Challenge curve is good, challenge rollercoaster is less good.
(I've left GWD out of this discussion coz I haven't been there more than once since I hit 60, but I'd put it up there with MD in 'stumbling block' territory)
I'd take the stakes even further and say that "ZOMG ZERG" isn't just viable, but rather a DESIRABLE "strategy" in most T2. Certainly it is a winner in PK, FH, and ToS, even if in that one, people just can not get the idea of how to properly do it...
EDIT: I'd also argue that in Karrundax, it doesn't work, not at least at the DPS levels I have been played. May become good later on when you can burn pyraphenya in 30s.
EDIT: I'd also argue that in Karrundax, it doesn't work, not at least at the DPS levels I have been played. May become good later on when you can burn pyraphenya in 30s.
You can zerg her, you just can't zerg her with minimal gear.
Zomg zerg! is the best strategy in 99% of the boss fights on this game... only exceptions: Fulminorax, VT, SC last boss and DV last boss... and since 5xGWF is a thing... fulminorax and VT dont count anymore.
Zomg zerg! is the best strategy in 99% of the boss fights on this game... only exceptions: Fulminorax, VT, SC last boss and DV last boss... and since 5xGWF is a thing... fulminorax and VT dont count anymore.
Agreed, although 5 CW is even better almost everywhere ....
I'd take the stakes even further and say that "ZOMG ZERG" isn't just viable, but rather a DESIRABLE "strategy" in most T2. Certainly it is a winner in PK, FH, and ToS, even if in that one, people just can not get the idea of how to properly do it...
EDIT: I'd also argue that in Karrundax, it doesn't work, not at least at the DPS levels I have been played. May become good later on when you can burn pyraphenya in 30s.
Since Flamespikers can't prone anymore, Karrundax has become a zerg/faceroll/walk through a park with occasional aoe damage to do. You can walk past all of the big guys except the couple of magma brutes before the first respawn. It's not even cheating, just follow the glitter trail, walk on the edges, they don't see you, you may aggro some small NPCs and you can keep walking...
And I'm not even mentionning how pathetics the bosses are in Karrundax. Basically, any T2 dungeon boss without hard stunlock mechanics coming from multiple sources offers no challenge, and that's not counting the absurd damage multipliers you may get from stacking debuffs (see my thread on page 2 or 3 for that).
Comments
When I entered this hell hole again, final boss spawns were changed (no big guy at the end) but it still was some challenge (I was on a overgeared GF).
I agree that it is challenging at low GS, but mostly because players entering the dungeon, probably still, don't know their class very well.
Of course gear helps, let's you live over your mistakes, but some skill & minor tactic is still good to have
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Yes, if u got even one not working together or doing what he is supposed to (which happens a lot due to language barrier and stuff), it doesnt matter what GS u have.
This is only because a magus can prone stupid players who don't move out of a tiny red circle (it's VERY tiny) once every 4-5s, provided they don't kill these npcs. That makes two mistakes in one run. Two mistakes are enough for a wipe, and that's not completely illegitimate. People keep asking for bosses requiring strats. Here, you have one. It's not a big deal you may have to kill at most 8 npcs to make the boss fight smooth and easy.
I always say I can't heal stupid with my cleric. While it's not completely true anymore (with 15k+ you can heal stupid), a GF is in no way a class able to carry people either. I have one, I know it. If you want to carry people in MD you may want to roll a GWF (aoe dps), a CW (aoe dps) or a DC (with a pure healbot spec and a very high amount of power to carry ingorance). I've already seen a smart TR clearing adds with me/cleric when the rest of the team was mindlessly attacking the boss, including the GWF I was more or less asking repeatedly to do his job.
You want bosses with strats? You have one. And it's clearly not the harder one. It's definitely not an adds fest so many people seem to hate. It's also the first dungeon which isn't "ZERG ZERG RUN AHEAD LIKE MAD KILL KILL ASAP OMG DD IS RUNNING SMASH BUTTONS", like the rest of the game. Before the boss, you may use the chat to make sure others understand how it works! That's insane! At some point you guys will have to know what you want... :rolleyes:
actually, there r times when there are 2 maguses alive and combined with the aoe stun from dragon.....that's instant death since they tend to spam their flame pillar consecutively
COMPLETELY missed the point.
Strategy is good. BUT, when a dungeon that has the strategy requirements of a T2 is supposedly set for people in mostly blues, something is not right.
And of course a GF is a class capable of carrying people. By design that is exactly what it is intended to do. Provide combat advantage by holding aggro and shielding the rest of the team from damage.
Add in the poison that slows you down (because the inexperienced guy tanking the dragon is panicking and turning it onto the group) and the Imps and you have yourself a real party.
I don't think that's the issue. Bosses being hard and requiring strategy is fine. The issue is with how the dungeon is classified: it's a T1, so low GS entry criterion, HAMSTER loot, lots of idiots in pugs.
Compare to say CT, CC or Idris, where ZOMG ZERG is an entirely acceptable strategy, this dungeon is a pretty large step in difficulty, team communication and tactics.
However when you get to PK, (a T2) zomg zerg becomes viable again, FH has basically one, fairly easily-implemented strategy, Karrundax is simply "zomg zerg, hope your deeps are high enough" and so on.
It's simply odd that a tactically-challenging dungeon is sitting there amongst the T1 facerolls, while a lot of equally facerolly dungeons are T2. Challenge curve is good, challenge rollercoaster is less good.
(I've left GWD out of this discussion coz I haven't been there more than once since I hit 60, but I'd put it up there with MD in 'stumbling block' territory)
EDIT: also, ninja'd. :-/
EDIT: I'd also argue that in Karrundax, it doesn't work, not at least at the DPS levels I have been played. May become good later on when you can burn pyraphenya in 30s.
You can zerg her, you just can't zerg her with minimal gear.
Agreed, although 5 CW is even better almost everywhere ....
Since Flamespikers can't prone anymore, Karrundax has become a zerg/faceroll/walk through a park with occasional aoe damage to do. You can walk past all of the big guys except the couple of magma brutes before the first respawn. It's not even cheating, just follow the glitter trail, walk on the edges, they don't see you, you may aggro some small NPCs and you can keep walking...
And I'm not even mentionning how pathetics the bosses are in Karrundax. Basically, any T2 dungeon boss without hard stunlock mechanics coming from multiple sources offers no challenge, and that's not counting the absurd damage multipliers you may get from stacking debuffs (see my thread on page 2 or 3 for that).