Any changes to PVP score points for clerics?

nwswans

With the next module being PVP focused, I'd just like to bring this topic up. Waaaay back in beta and just shortly before the live date, this change was implemented:

Players no longer get points for Assists if they do not deal damage to the target player.
* We are aware that this puts healers at a point disadvantage; we are looking into solutions for a future update.

The patch notes with the above sentence can be found here : http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=913661
-> scroll down to the PVP section.

While the game has certainly changed since then, I'd like to point out that heal-based clerics may still be at a disadvantage. For the sake of discussion, let's list out what most clerics do in PVP.

Actions that tag opponent(s) for assist points:
+ Clerics attack with at-wills to build divinity, or buff/debuffs (BotS, SF, BB, ASeal).
+ Sunburst, to build divinity, knock opponent off points, and heal/dps.
+ Heals may trigger Burning Guidance, dealing damage.
+ Or any DPS encounters that a cleric built for damage will have.

Actions that do not tag opponent(s) for assist points:
- Direct heals on allies such as Healing Word, Bastion of Health, Exaltation.
- Mitigation for allies, via Astral Shield, Divine Armor, etc.

Based on my limited experience in PVP, the majority of clerics I have encountered seem to focus on staying alive and healing or buffing allies. These clerics, with lower DPS overall, seldom land the killing blow and thus have lower chances for kill points (and without kills, no "Tower Rush" / "Tower Defender" point bonuses). Sure, they may get lots of +25 points for assists due to spamming at-wills, but less points are available for non-DPS clerics whom are often stunned/proned/dazed thanks to being the focus of fire.

So are the developers still looking into solutions to aid clerics with PVP score points, or is this no longer on their list of things to do?

If this is still on their list, I'd like to offer some suggestions (numbers can be changed for balance of course):
> Savior (+50 points) - heal an ally (that has less than 10% hp) for over 5k in 2 second.
> Heal Bot (+25 points) - heal a total of 10k hp in 10 seconds among allies.
> Borderline (+25 points) - stay alive at under 15% hp for over 10 seconds (like that under 50% hp mechanic during the Challenge of the Gods event)

Nothing like more incentives for clerics to perform better, and recognition for the already awesome clerics. Thank you for reading, post your suggestions or your thoughts on whether this is unnecessary or not

jazzfong

We got a BG that help to hit an enemy nearby when we heal in combat but we still lack some point awards for healing a pre-/post-combat half hp allies. Your point is valid but the "borderline" award is confusing, whether the award is to us or to the tank, and who need to stay alive? It is the DC or his teammate? And if this works in pvp, then 25 points is too less as under 15% hp is extremely dangerous, to farm more points you let your tank exposed to 10% hp for 10 secs!!! Hanging his hp under 15% for 10 seconds for 25 points??? I not recommended DC to get points by this. Why not changing it to higher % like 30% or 40%??

tricksterknight

OK, I think you better wake up and smell the coffee there. The DC is being pushed out of PVP all together.

1st off assists are the least of your worries, you have that 50% healing reduction and tenacity to worry about.
with these changes, you arent node holders , your damage will be useless ,, moreso than now. Assists, yep out of the question cause you arent even gonna get any damage in maybe with your daily, but thats it (if that)
it's sad, but the fact is ,, DCs are going to be the completely forgotten class when that patch comes out , you wont even see them in pve situations. because of how PVP effect what classes people go for.

jaotut

Anyone who's played this game long enough knows there's no love for DCs here.

They have useless PvP sets, they're not as useful in PvE anymore as their debuffs aren't as good since it's been nerfed, they even get a toothpick looking thing as an event item for their symbol to transmute once.

jazzfong

Not so serious dude. Just play. We can always find a way to play even with tons of nerfs on us. I just hope they are not destroying this class 100%, tune down DC abilities for 50% is ok for me, at least we still can contribute something by healing, although its healing amount is maybe 20% of a normal regen tick, still increase the healing amount of someone by a little isn't it? I scared they silently nerf our astral shield but i will post this issue on another post, kindly support that post in gameplay and pvp forum.

morsitans

Yes... but it does take an age longer to get glory for anything, because so little of our contributions to matches count for points. You could basically run out and take 2, hold 2 against absolutely everyone on the other team for long enough for your own team to come stomp them, then heal up your own team and continue holding 2 for the entire match, get 86 assists, and you'd end up with maybe 230 glory. A TR can just roam the outskirts ganking people and never standing on point at all and end up with FAR more glory.

You're essentially much better off capping and leaving so you can recap, better off following allies and stealing their kills, etc.

Playing in a fashion that's actually useful to the team does not, sadly, equate to any significant reward at the end.

And now they're making us worse. So..yeah.

thestaggy

nwswans wrote: »

So are the developers still looking into solutions to aid clerics with PVP score points, or is this no longer on their list of things to do?

If this is still on their list, I'd like to offer some suggestions (numbers can be changed for balance of course):
> Savior (+50 points) - heal an ally (that has less than 10% hp) for over 5k in 2 second.
> Heal Bot (+25 points) - heal a total of 10k hp in 10 seconds among allies.
> Borderline (+25 points) - stay alive at under 15% hp for over 10 seconds (like that under 50% hp mechanic during the Challenge of the Gods event)

Nothing like more incentives for clerics to perform better, and recognition for the already awesome clerics. Thank you for reading, post your suggestions or your thoughts on whether this is unnecessary or not

That would be fantastic. I always hit node 2 first, never even try and get free points by charging to node 1 with the other 2/3/4 selfish glory hunters. I hit the node, hold out long enough (at least most of the time) to weather the opening s*hit storm and then just sit there all game, healing allies, earning assists and the occasional kill by blasting someone with my blue laser when they are low on health, but that's it. Always at the bottom of my team points-wise yet I usually die the least (unless I am focused and chain-proned/CCd into oblivion) and spend the entire match holding or fighting for 2 while people run past and occasionally stop and shout ''HEAL!''. If the match is just about won I'll then try and rush off to 3 and try and get myself a few extra points.

nwswans

jazzfong wrote: »

Your point is valid but the "borderline" award is confusing, whether the award is to us or to the tank, and who need to stay alive? It is the DC or his teammate?

It's just a suggestion/idea on what kind of new bonus points can be given based on certain "healing" criteria. Yes, it should be awarded to the cleric, as a bonus for staying alive under focused fire during PVP matches.

Anyway, I suggested 15% (and as I mentioned in my original post, the numbers should be changed for balancing purposes) because any higher % will make this award a little to easy to get. I'm sure you notice clerics in PVP matches always hover between 25-50% hp during matches as there is always someone hitting the cleric, or damage from AOE in the thick of battle. Yes, this award can be abused, as a cleric can deliberately stay under that 15% repeatedly, so it's up to the devs to implement a timer-based mechanic to this, or just make it a "once-per-match" award.

tricksterknight wrote: »

OK, I think you better wake up and smell the coffee there. The DC is being pushed out of PVP all together.

While I agree with you that clerics have gotten no love lately (seriously devs, where is that Hammer of Fate buff you promised us after you nerfed it to the ground!?), there will still be players that enjoy playing it, or gurus that figure out new ways to make miracles work. Hence my suggestion to reward clerics with more points. Especially when the devs have said they would since that beta patch.

nurmood

Well with all the new Dr increases the role of the Debuffer/Buffer may become important as a DC (same as in PvE)

Skillsetups like Exaltation Break the spirit and Divine Glow become may become viable?! would be a way to to keep up but still doesnt solve the original problem of this thread - you get no points for buffing and Debuffing either

slushpsycho

There is not much room for healer in PVP content.

Current Patch DC is wanted cause it is strong.

In new patch after the nerf DC would require more effort to play. But that is for high end. In low end I can see DC benefit from the Tenacity because most DC show up with 22k-25k hp + little defensive stat and usually get jibbed in 3s before even doing much.