chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited February 2014
Actually Draco is quite annoying with a fighter in him to stabilize his posistion...
Many people I know either didn't spend a money or bought fey pack or something like that that wasn't a mountain of diamonds. Most of us are 15k gs+ (My cw is 15721 as if this writing)
As for tanks, they can be useful if played well. In low end dps groups gf can kite amazingly well, that's awesome.
In high dps groups, tank the boss and let the team aoe the adds, also works great and makes the fight easy.
Gf has utility that doesn't show up in paingiver.. Same as dc, a good dc can help group, just at the moment no class is necessary except cw, though I know some people that do all gwf cn:D
Actually Draco is quite annoying with a fighter in him to stabilize his posistion...
Many people I know either didn't spend a money or bought fey pack or something like that that wasn't a mountain of diamonds. Most of us are 15k gs+ (My cw is 15721 as if this writing)
As for tanks, they can be useful if played well. In low end dps groups gf can kite amazingly well, that's awesome.
In high dps groups, tank the boss and let the team aoe the adds, also works great and makes the fight easy.
Gf has utility that doesn't show up in paingiver.. Same as dc, a good dc can help group, just at the moment no class is necessary except cw, though I know some people that do all gwf cn:D
Nothing like Kiteing should even exist, we should be able to TANK adds.
It is ironic. The guy with the heaviest armour spends his time running away from monsters. :rolleyes:
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I haven't played a TR, so no clue wether they are good at kiting or not. But I'll tell you one thing: At least a TR kiting isn't a threat to my sanity. A GF kiting:
MUAHHAHAA YOU EVIL MONSTERS!! I HAVE A STRATEGY!! I WILL USE MY 50 POUNDS ARMOR AND MY HEAVY SHIELD TO RUN CIRCLES AROUND YOU AND YOU WILL NEVER CATCH ME!!
GF has the worst survival of any class except for HR.
GWF, 25-50% of max hp as temporary hp from unstoppable
CW, stun the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of everything
DC self heal 4k+ hp per second
TR, impossible to catch
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2014
The problem stems from Neverwinter dump of the holy trinity and all the mechanics other MMOs employ and encounters that revolve around it. In other MMOs they usually have Raids, small groups, 3mans or such and sometimes the 3 mans they set up so everyone can run.. but there IS no way you are running raids and small groups without at least one tank and dedicated healer.. becuase ANY class other then a full tank is one shotted on unavoidable boss shots.
The only class that is really needed to run most DDs here is CWs , you can get around that , but it makes for longer runs and everything is harder. Just stack more of them and you can do all dds. No reason to have any other class really. Tanks , Healers are redundant, even if you stack as pure DPS buffer as a DC, you have to convince them its worth it. (High prophet + plaguefire will give 35% decrease of defense , this "should extrapolate" to more dps then adding one more CW, with a heavy empahsis on should, plus mitigation, and increase of buffs. It doesnt help that alot of DCs would rather "look" cool with T2 sets that do not add to what is really needed in Neverwinter and that is buffing DPS is the only thing that matters. So people stop running with DCs, stop running with GFs ect...
I think eventually I will get tired of this and move on to another game, but I want to get through every DD first.
Uh...I'm not sure what that DC is using, but a 4k selfheal per second is pretty rare. I'm guessing either a lucky crit forgemasters or..uh...maybe a lucky crit HW (which comes with a free -40% bonus!).
Also, you forgot HRs. They die all the time (enter dungeon, pull all aggro, die).
GFs in my experience are pretty tanky unless you really try to push it. Plus fighters recovery is the most ridonkulous spike heal ever.
The chief problem with survivability to my mind is mobility: every class except the GF has a get out of jail free card (dodge, teleport, roll, etc) whereas GFs just have to sit there and decide whether to take the hit or block. Lunge and threatening help with shifting around, though they do require someone elsewhere to hit (and a lunge toward a dude that just got CW-punted off a cliff is...never fun).
GF has the worst survival of any class except for HR.
GWF, 25-50% of max hp as temporary hp from unstoppable
CW, stun the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of everything
DC self heal 4k+ hp per second
TR, impossible to catch
Shield blocking, furious reaction, lots of knockbacks/prones. GF's are an exceptionally survivable class.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited February 2014
What annoys me most are the red attacks the GF's shield can't protect him from. You block the attack, but you still get launched into the air to be torn apart afterwards. Unless you keep your charge saved up to dash to another attack you're not going to get out of it.
Uh...I'm not sure what that DC is using, but a 4k selfheal per second is pretty rare. I'm guessing either a lucky crit forgemasters or..uh...maybe a lucky crit HW (which comes with a free -40% bonus!).
Also, you forgot HRs. They die all the time (enter dungeon, pull all aggro, die).
GFs in my experience are pretty tanky unless you really try to push it. Plus fighters recovery is the most ridonkulous spike heal ever.
The chief problem with survivability to my mind is mobility: every class except the GF has a get out of jail free card (dodge, teleport, roll, etc) whereas GFs just have to sit there and decide whether to take the hit or block. Lunge and threatening help with shifting around, though they do require someone elsewhere to hit (and a lunge toward a dude that just got CW-punted off a cliff is...never fun).
Sure sometimes I'd trade anything for a dodge but my GF is very mobile. Lunge and threatening indeed. Though yes never ever lunge anything near a cliff unless you know the CW very well. A couple of people here seem to just run when kiting. Why? Throw frontline to clear a row and you can get in a cleave or two before moving again. That, your lunge/ threatening, enforced, and some blocking builds AP. If CC heavy mobs use a pot and menace. If no cc then recovery. You won't make paingiver but it's better than running the whole time.
What annoys me most are the red attacks the GF's shield can't protect him from. You block the attack, but you still get launched into the air to be torn apart afterwards. Unless you keep your charge saved up to dash to another attack you're not going to get out of it.
I've noticed something in Frozen Heart when tanking Grast the Gut Cruncher. When he launches his frontal attack (the one with the row of red circles) if I block and stay still I both block the attack and keep my footing. However, if I raise my shield and continue to stab him over the top of it when he launches his attack I block the attack but get knocked into the air.
In a way it makes sense. If I raise my shield and brace for the hit I will stand my ground, but if I raise my shield and continue to attack I may block the attack but I could still lose my balance from the impact.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Sure sometimes I'd trade anything for a dodge but my GF is very mobile. Lunge and threatening indeed. Though yes never ever lunge anything near a cliff unless you know the CW very well. A couple of people here seem to just run when kiting. Why? Throw frontline to clear a row and you can get in a cleave or two before moving again. That, your lunge/ threatening, enforced, and some blocking builds AP. If CC heavy mobs use a pot and menace. If no cc then recovery. You won't make paingiver but it's better than running the whole time.
Isn't Frontline limited in the amount of targets it can prone and some elites are immune to the prone. Like hell am I going to try and pop Frontline into 6 Golems & 10 trolls in the Hrimnir fight while I am taking arrows in the back and knee as well. I've tried that and it is called chain proned to death. All I do is loop around, Threatening Rush and Frontline the archers if the DPS crew is in full burn boss mode, pop Enforced Threat and then Into the Fray and carry on. Rinse, repeat till boss dies.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Wow we are on totally different pages here. I was actually doing this exact tactic in FH yesterday. Frontline knocks back the first 3 trolls, the golems have a long animation on all their attacks and they stop and stand still to let you know it is coming you don't even need a dodge you can walk away from it with darks in your utilities. I actually kind of want some of the archers in the back of the room to be alive. because it turns lunging into a teleport, again often using frontline to make sure I can target the right thing. I assure you it is quite feasible. A few days ago gearing a new CW did that with 4 because the GWF DCed. Trust me when you are finishing Hrim with a Dc, a CW, and a TR of moderate GS you get more than 16 chasing you! This is really where the GF shines imho. If something goes wrong (someone DCs or gets burned at the beginning of a fight) GF can prevent a wipe, like an insurance policy...
Comments
Many people I know either didn't spend a money or bought fey pack or something like that that wasn't a mountain of diamonds. Most of us are 15k gs+ (My cw is 15721 as if this writing)
As for tanks, they can be useful if played well. In low end dps groups gf can kite amazingly well, that's awesome.
In high dps groups, tank the boss and let the team aoe the adds, also works great and makes the fight easy.
Gf has utility that doesn't show up in paingiver.. Same as dc, a good dc can help group, just at the moment no class is necessary except cw, though I know some people that do all gwf cn:D
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Nothing like Kiteing should even exist, we should be able to TANK adds.
The Guardian Fighter should be the ONLY class that can do this!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
It is ironic. The guy with the heaviest armour spends his time running away from monsters. :rolleyes:
I haven't played a TR, so no clue wether they are good at kiting or not. But I'll tell you one thing: At least a TR kiting isn't a threat to my sanity. A GF kiting:
MUAHHAHAA YOU EVIL MONSTERS!! I HAVE A STRATEGY!! I WILL USE MY 50 POUNDS ARMOR AND MY HEAVY SHIELD TO RUN CIRCLES AROUND YOU AND YOU WILL NEVER CATCH ME!!
Only for solo play! Kiting was never an intended mechanic for boss fights. All MMOs have a tank class who's entire purpose is to meat shield the boss!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
GWF, 25-50% of max hp as temporary hp from unstoppable
CW, stun the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of everything
DC self heal 4k+ hp per second
TR, impossible to catch
The only class that is really needed to run most DDs here is CWs , you can get around that , but it makes for longer runs and everything is harder. Just stack more of them and you can do all dds. No reason to have any other class really. Tanks , Healers are redundant, even if you stack as pure DPS buffer as a DC, you have to convince them its worth it. (High prophet + plaguefire will give 35% decrease of defense , this "should extrapolate" to more dps then adding one more CW, with a heavy empahsis on should, plus mitigation, and increase of buffs. It doesnt help that alot of DCs would rather "look" cool with T2 sets that do not add to what is really needed in Neverwinter and that is buffing DPS is the only thing that matters. So people stop running with DCs, stop running with GFs ect...
I think eventually I will get tired of this and move on to another game, but I want to get through every DD first.
Also, you forgot HRs. They die all the time (enter dungeon, pull all aggro, die).
GFs in my experience are pretty tanky unless you really try to push it. Plus fighters recovery is the most ridonkulous spike heal ever.
The chief problem with survivability to my mind is mobility: every class except the GF has a get out of jail free card (dodge, teleport, roll, etc) whereas GFs just have to sit there and decide whether to take the hit or block. Lunge and threatening help with shifting around, though they do require someone elsewhere to hit (and a lunge toward a dude that just got CW-punted off a cliff is...never fun).
Shield blocking, furious reaction, lots of knockbacks/prones. GF's are an exceptionally survivable class.
Sure sometimes I'd trade anything for a dodge but my GF is very mobile. Lunge and threatening indeed. Though yes never ever lunge anything near a cliff unless you know the CW very well. A couple of people here seem to just run when kiting. Why? Throw frontline to clear a row and you can get in a cleave or two before moving again. That, your lunge/ threatening, enforced, and some blocking builds AP. If CC heavy mobs use a pot and menace. If no cc then recovery. You won't make paingiver but it's better than running the whole time.
I've noticed something in Frozen Heart when tanking Grast the Gut Cruncher. When he launches his frontal attack (the one with the row of red circles) if I block and stay still I both block the attack and keep my footing. However, if I raise my shield and continue to stab him over the top of it when he launches his attack I block the attack but get knocked into the air.
In a way it makes sense. If I raise my shield and brace for the hit I will stand my ground, but if I raise my shield and continue to attack I may block the attack but I could still lose my balance from the impact.
Isn't Frontline limited in the amount of targets it can prone and some elites are immune to the prone. Like hell am I going to try and pop Frontline into 6 Golems & 10 trolls in the Hrimnir fight while I am taking arrows in the back and knee as well. I've tried that and it is called chain proned to death. All I do is loop around, Threatening Rush and Frontline the archers if the DPS crew is in full burn boss mode, pop Enforced Threat and then Into the Fray and carry on. Rinse, repeat till boss dies.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!