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anymrasanymras Member Posts: 23 Arc User
edited February 2014 in The Thieves' Den
Most things have a fairly up-front system to how they function, but there's a couple things that're sort of baffling me. If anybody could help clear these up, it would be greatly appreciated.

1: By what amount does Wicked Reminder lower the target's Damage Resistance? Is it just 1% per stack, or...?

2: As I've just respecced out of a permastealth build, I'm looking for different armor. The Shadewalker set looks interesting for my new Whisperknife Scoundrel build, but I'm not sure what it means by 'Your powers grant you Life Steal and Armor Penetration' - specifically, I'm not sure if that means all powers used by the wearer trigger those buffs, or if it's guaranteed. (If it does mean both of those things, then I think I know what armor to go getting ASAP.)
Post edited by anymras on

Comments

  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    4% per stack, for a total of 20% at 5 stacks.

    5% defense debuff equates to something around 1% increase in damage.

    At full 5 stacks, it will give you roughly 4% more damage.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
  • inthefade462inthefade462 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    kweassa wrote: »
    4% per stack, for a total of 20% at 5 stacks.
    this part is true.

    5 stacks of wicked reminder increase your damage by 20%.
  • anymrasanymras Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Hm. So, it's either a +4% or +20% damage boost.
    Theoretically, could get up to...+34% or +50% damage (Catspaw Style Dazing Strike, Wicked Reminder, and Perfect Terror Enchantment). Might have to try that - Lashing Blade at the tail end of that would be massive.

    Okay, I picked up a pair of Crystal Daggers for testing purposes so I could really figure it out.

    It's either 20% or 17%, but certainly not 4%, though it really depends on how it's looked at. When I divided the base number by the modified number, I got 83% (suggesting a 17% difference), but when I divided the modified number by the base number, I got 120% (suggesting a 20% difference).

    No bloody wonder I had issues in math.
  • f2pnwf2pnw Member Posts: 98
    edited February 2014
    so much work for very low numbers.in the end you are just buffing everyone elses dmg.trust me no one is going to say ty man.they will not invite you again lol.
  • anymrasanymras Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Yep. Because I'm absolutely, incredibly concerned with whether people will invite me to things.
    Oh no, whatever shall I do, people I never talk to anyway might not appreciate/notice that some guy is helping then deal lots of damage.
    What should I do to make them notice me, senpai!?

    Personally, if something I do helps me, I don't worry too much about whether it helps everyone else. An extra 30% damage (at the moment), for me, is pretty nice to have - especially as it means more Lifesteal heals, and more damage to my Dailies, at-wills, and anything else I do.
    (It's also really not that much work. Most things don't live to get 5 stacks of Wicked Reminder.)
  • f2pnwf2pnw Member Posts: 98
    edited February 2014
    anymras wrote: »
    Yep. Because I'm absolutely, incredibly concerned with whether people will invite me to things.
    Oh no, whatever shall I do, people I never talk to anyway might not appreciate/notice that some guy is helping then deal lots of damage.
    What should I do to make them notice me, senpai!?

    Personally, if something I do helps me, I don't worry too much about whether it helps everyone else. An extra 30% damage (at the moment), for me, is pretty nice to have - especially as it means more Lifesteal heals, and more damage to my Dailies, at-wills, and anything else I do.
    (It's also really not that much work. Most things don't live to get 5 stacks of Wicked Reminder.)


    you lost me here:
    "An extra 30% damage (at the moment), for me, is pretty nice to have.

    "It's also really not that much work. Most things don't live to get 5 stacks of Wicked Reminder"

    how do you get 30%if u cant get 5 stack lol.

    tr have realy big problem finding partys coz they are useless in single and aoe dmg.dont remember when was the last time i saw lf tr for cn or mc or whatever.... if that dont concern you
    maybe you are one of those sm guys that like to suffer lol.
  • xyntrynz1axyntrynz1a Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    f2pnw wrote: »
    you lost me here:
    "An extra 30% damage (at the moment), for me, is pretty nice to have.

    "It's also really not that much work. Most things don't live to get 5 stacks of Wicked Reminder"

    how do you get 30%if u cant get 5 stack lol.

    tr have realy big problem finding partys coz they are useless in single and aoe dmg.dont remember when was the last time i saw lf tr for cn or mc or whatever.... if that dont concern you
    maybe you are one of those sm guys that like to suffer lol.

    Naaaaa
    We just like to win in PVP
    Scoundrel Trickster Rogue
    Leaving dead question marks everywhere
  • anymrasanymras Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    f2pnw wrote: »
    you lost me here:
    how do you get 30%if u cant get 5 stack lol.

    tr have realy big problem finding partys coz they are useless in single and aoe dmg.dont remember when was the last time i saw lf tr for cn or mc or whatever.... if that dont concern you
    maybe you are one of those sm guys that like to suffer lol.

    Things usually die first, as a result of the other stacks of Wicked Reminder and/or the Catspaw style thing. Even if they survive, it means a lot of extra lifesteal healing for me - enough that I can facetank some enemies.

    I have a group that I play with, when I feel like playing with a group - but 90% of the time, I honestly just don't bother. Almost all content is PUG/Solo-friendly, aside from dungeons (which I don't like, as they're only challenging because of more/stronger/tougher monsters) and PvP (which is the worst thing about the game, as it throws everyone into the same giant pot, leaving new 60s with blue/green gear to get mauled out-of-hand by people they honestly have no business fighting).
    If you consider 'I don't get invited to groups for bits of the game I don't like anyway' suffering, I...really don't know what to tell you.
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    f2pnw wrote: »
    so much work for very low numbers.in the end you are just buffing everyone elses dmg.trust me no one is going to say ty man.they will not invite you again lol.

    Yes, ignorance has a way of doing that.

    If the teammates are so much clueless as to not notice how they're bringing down elite/boss grade mobs at least 20~30% faster than normal, then **** it. I wouldn't want to play with such ignorant losers either.

    The end-result of a defense-debuff setup allows more than twice~three times the overall damage done to the target at a team level, than, let's say, a Perfect Vorpal crit setup which may spike your own damage, but overall deals less damage to the target on the team-level.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    f2pnw wrote: »
    you lost me here:
    "An extra 30% damage (at the moment), for me, is pretty nice to have.

    "It's also really not that much work. Most things don't live to get 5 stacks of Wicked Reminder"

    how do you get 30%if u cant get 5 stack lol.

    tr have realy big problem finding partys coz they are useless in single and aoe dmg.dont remember when was the last time i saw lf tr for cn or mc or whatever.... if that dont concern you
    maybe you are one of those sm guys that like to suffer lol.

    Getting 5 stacks of WR takes 8 seconds.

    What did you think, that people use WR 5 times straight in a row to get upto 5 stacks by spending 20 whole seconds?
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
  • f2pnwf2pnw Member Posts: 98
    edited February 2014
    anymras wrote: »
    Things usually die first, as a result of the other stacks of Wicked Reminder and/or the Catspaw style thing. Even if they survive, it means a lot of extra lifesteal healing for me - enough that I can facetank some enemies.

    I have a group that I play with, when I feel like playing with a group - but 90% of the time, I honestly just don't bother. Almost all content is PUG/Solo-friendly, aside from dungeons (which I don't like, as they're only challenging because of more/stronger/tougher monsters) and PvP (which is the worst thing about the game, as it throws everyone into the same giant pot, leaving new 60s with blue/green gear to get mauled out-of-hand by people they honestly have no business fighting).
    If you consider 'I don't get invited to groups for bits of the game I don't like anyway' suffering, I...really don't know what to tell you.

    you dont like dungeons in the dungeons and dragons game.
    you dont like to group or talk to people in online game.
    you dont pvp.
    you lost me again
  • f2pnwf2pnw Member Posts: 98
    edited February 2014
    kweassa wrote: »
    Getting 5 stacks of WR takes 8 seconds.

    What did you think, that people use WR 5 times straight in a row to get upto 5 stacks by spending 20 whole seconds?

    i know how it works i have a tr.but i dont get your point?
    if wr is so good why is tr not viable.
  • anymrasanymras Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    f2pnw wrote: »
    you lost me again

    Fine, here, I'll break it down for you. I'm honestly not sure how I've been unclear, but I'll try to explain, despite the sneaking suspicion that you simply skim over things until you think you've found a point to make.
    you dont like dungeons in the dungeons and dragons game.
    The dungeons in this Dungeons and Dragons game kind of suck.
    The only thing that makes them challenging at all is that they're full of extra-tough, extra-strong, extra-numerous mobs. This is what is commonly referred to as 'artificial difficulty,' I believe. For proof of how absolutely rubbish this is: Try going through a dungeon using a permastealth build. Banelorne's with Scavenger was pretty much the one I was using, if you'd like to give it a shot.
    Notice how the challenge suddenly becomes 'don't get too terribly bored' if you're not fighting a few very specific, relatively rare sets of AI (Gloomblades, Shadar-Kai Witches, Hrimnir, Driders, Bristle Spiders, Lesser Broodmothers, that one boss in Spider Queen that also stealths, and the Enhanced Rimefire Golem)?
    I did. I thought it sucked. I suddenly found things so easy that, after my finger hurt from simply holding down the Gloaming Cut button, I respecced out of Master Infiltrator entirely and will likely never return.
    A good alternative to Artificial Difficulty is actually making the player think and use strategy, beyond 'wow, that's a lot of mobs, let's do that thing we always do'. For example, the boss of the Spider Queen dungeon? That schtick she has of draining her minions for HP is a step in the right direction - it's difficult to kill her by just punching her in the face repeatedly, as works on almost any other boss I've fought, and a clear necessitates pruning the adds, if the party isn't powerful enough to simply outdamage the healing.
    you dont like to group or talk to people in online game.
    I have a group of people I play with, that I know from outside the game, when I want to play with people. We even have a guild. By and large, I simply don't care to make friends, so even if I do a Skirmish with a group, I pretty much only get chatty if something's not working and I feel like making light of the situation.

    I enjoy playing the way that I do. The way I do just happens to be primarily solo.

    If the reasons behind this baffle you: Consider the current situation. I ask for information regarding a skill and a suit of armor.
    You come in, and say: "so much work for very low numbers.in the end you are just buffing everyone elses dmg.trust me no one is going to say ty man.they will not invite you again lol."

    In short:
    "How do these things work?" I ask.
    "Like this," says kweassa.
    "No, like this," says inthefade462.
    "Oh, this combination might be cool," says I.
    "Those suck, you won't get thanked or invited," says you, proceeding to seem baffled that I don't especially like talking to people, when I can't even ask a bloody question without this happening.
    you dont pvp.
    The PvP in this game is the worst thing about it, as I said. I hit 60 just recently, and attempted it, figuring that it might be fun. Besides, I needed the diamonds.

    As a new 60, with a gearscore of about 9.5k, I quickly came to realize that I could not have been more wrong. The realization hit me somewhere around three minutes into the first match, when I discovered that I would die to a particularly harsh look from a better-geared player. Skill didn't enter into it in the least - they'd kill me in two hits with quick At-Wills, one with an Encounter, or at least that's how fast it seemed.

    I got face-tanked by Control Wizards, because they simply had good enough gear that I simply could not deal enough damage to make it worthwhile to get out of the way, not when they could just kill me instead and save the stamina.

    Instead, despite my current nearly 12k gearscore, I'm not even going to do it for dailies, not even when I stand to gain 12k Diamonds for simply being present in the matches.
    They're thinking of implementing an Elo system, and I might try it after that, but for now, I think I'll save myself the frustration. My gearscore may have improved, but at this point, either I'll end up putting other players into the position I was in at first - getting squashed, frustrated with an inexplicably terrible decision - or I'll just discover that my gear still isn't good enough to do anything but run.
  • todesfaelletodesfaelle Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Ouch. Was my build that boring?
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Hmm.. maybe I could put it this way.

    I most usually use PvP settings (gear-wise) all-around, unless I really have to switch over to high-powered PvE gear. Hence, my power at PvP settings I am usually at 2,400~2,500 power.

    I don't use the bursty Executioner/Vorpal settings, but rather I use Scoundrel/Plaguefire. For PvE purposes, I switch my Encounters to, [Wicked Remider + DazingStrike/Lashing Blade + Blitz].

    Under very normal conditions, my Lashing Blade deals around 6k damage normal. A 75% crit factor should push it up to 10,500 in theory, but mobs have defenses as well, so usually my damage manifests around 9k at crit.

    Now, this 9k crit damage for Lashing Blade:

    w/ Cat's Paw Style (around 2% damage increase) : ~9,200
    w/ CPS + Cunning Ambusher + Endless Assault + Whirlwind Sneak Attack (around 29% damage increase) : ~11,600
    w/ CPS + CA + EA + WSA + Plaguefire Stacks (around 38% damage increase) : ~12,400
    w/ CPS + CA + EA + WSA + PF + Wicked Reminder Stacks (around 42% damage increase) : ~12,800
    w/ CPS + CA + WSA + PF + WR + Advantageous Position (around 58% damage increase) : ~14,220
    w/ CPS + CA + WSA + PF + WR + AP + Lantern(purple tier) (around 61% damage increase) : ~14,500

    The numbers are not exact, but is empirically close to what I see usually. Of that total 61% damage increase, 18% of it applies to other team members as well. The debuffs you can maintain persistantly without any down time is from Plaguefire and Wicked Reminder amounts upto 13% damage increase.

    So with defense debuff settings, it's like you give ALL of your team members an extra class feature that gives a 15% damage buff.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
  • f2pnwf2pnw Member Posts: 98
    edited February 2014
    anymras wrote: »
    Fine, here, I'll break it down for you. I'm honestly not sure how I've been unclear, but I'll try to explain, despite the sneaking suspicion that you simply skim over things until you think you've found a point to make.


    The dungeons in this Dungeons and Dragons game kind of suck.
    The only thing that makes them challenging at all is that they're full of extra-tough, extra-strong, extra-numerous mobs. This is what is commonly referred to as 'artificial difficulty,' I believe. For proof of how absolutely rubbish this is: Try going through a dungeon using a permastealth build. Banelorne's with Scavenger was pretty much the one I was using, if you'd like to give it a shot.
    Notice how the challenge suddenly becomes 'don't get too terribly bored' if you're not fighting a few very specific, relatively rare sets of AI (Gloomblades, Shadar-Kai Witches, Hrimnir, Driders, Bristle Spiders, Lesser Broodmothers, that one boss in Spider Queen that also stealths, and the Enhanced Rimefire Golem)?
    I did. I thought it sucked. I suddenly found things so easy that, after my finger hurt from simply holding down the Gloaming Cut button, I respecced out of Master Infiltrator entirely and will likely never return.
    A good alternative to Artificial Difficulty is actually making the player think and use strategy, beyond 'wow, that's a lot of mobs, let's do that thing we always do'. For example, the boss of the Spider Queen dungeon? That schtick she has of draining her minions for HP is a step in the right direction - it's difficult to kill her by just punching her in the face repeatedly, as works on almost any other boss I've fought, and a clear necessitates pruning the adds, if the party isn't powerful enough to simply outdamage the healing.


    I have a group of people I play with, that I know from outside the game, when I want to play with people. We even have a guild. By and large, I simply don't care to make friends, so even if I do a Skirmish with a group, I pretty much only get chatty if something's not working and I feel like making light of the situation.

    I enjoy playing the way that I do. The way I do just happens to be primarily solo.

    If the reasons behind this baffle you: Consider the current situation. I ask for information regarding a skill and a suit of armor.
    You come in, and say: "so much work for very low numbers.in the end you are just buffing everyone elses dmg.trust me no one is going to say ty man.they will not invite you again lol."

    In short:
    "How do these things work?" I ask.
    "Like this," says kweassa.
    "No, like this," says inthefade462.
    "Oh, this combination might be cool," says I.
    "Those suck, you won't get thanked or invited," says you, proceeding to seem baffled that I don't especially like talking to people, when I can't even ask a bloody question without this happening.


    The PvP in this game is the worst thing about it, as I said. I hit 60 just recently, and attempted it, figuring that it might be fun. Besides, I needed the diamonds.

    As a new 60, with a gearscore of about 9.5k, I quickly came to realize that I could not have been more wrong. The realization hit me somewhere around three minutes into the first match, when I discovered that I would die to a particularly harsh look from a better-geared player. Skill didn't enter into it in the least - they'd kill me in two hits with quick At-Wills, one with an Encounter, or at least that's how fast it seemed.

    I got face-tanked by Control Wizards, because they simply had good enough gear that I simply could not deal enough damage to make it worthwhile to get out of the way, not when they could just kill me instead and save the stamina.

    Instead, despite my current nearly 12k gearscore, I'm not even going to do it for dailies, not even when I stand to gain 12k Diamonds for simply being present in the matches.
    They're thinking of implementing an Elo system, and I might try it after that, but for now, I think I'll save myself the frustration. My gearscore may have improved, but at this point, either I'll end up putting other players into the position I was in at first - getting squashed, frustrated with an inexplicably terrible decision - or I'll just discover that my gear still isn't good enough to do anything but run.

    i assumed that everyone does pvp and t2,cn what ever.
    i dont care how someone kills redcaps and would never respond to that.
    btw i have 11,5 no enchants but 3 silvery 7 rank. im prety sure i can kill almost any cw,i killed bis gf,most tr,most hr,lower gear sent gwf
    more then enough to have some fun in pugs.i just use snow build(way before he posted lol).
  • anymrasanymras Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Ouch. Was my build that boring?

    Depends on the game mode, honestly.

    See, thing is, it's so incredibly good in PvE, due to the way Stealth is handled, that a good number of dungeons can be done without ever getting so much as touched. The only dungeons that manage to put up a fight against the permastealth build are the ones where certain enemies still attack your position.

    It should never, in my opinion, be easier to do a dungeon alone than with an appropriately-leveled comrade or party, but a permastealth build works best in just such a condition, as most enemies simply won't attack if you spend entire encounters in stealth.
    It should not be a thing that I could literally go make myself a sandwich before most boss fights, come back, and fight the boss while eating said sandwich.

    In PvP, though, it's the only build I've ever been able to have anything resembling a good time with, due to the massive amount of survivability 'they can't see you' gives and the amusement of watching somebody who could squish you like a bug if they could catch you...well, failing to catch you, flailing at the air and trying to figure out where you janked to.

    In short: It's really less that the build itself is boring, as that the state it prolongs is too powerful.
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