Class Reglementation for Party Composition

neopreen

Now that we have 6 classes already but need 5 ppl to create a party, why do we still have ppl who only creat "3 CW +2" parties?!

Well... cause they can.

I always get a party with my DC and also with my CW but with my other classes I ve to wait hours when I really wanna do a run. There r specific dungeons where other classes like the GFs r needed, not for the dungeons itself but for the kiting... thats really sad.

How about a class regulation for party composition so that u only can create parties with 5 different classes?
(I already can hear the crying of those 3 CW +2 party players... but its about the game and the gameplay.)
What will the game b when the next class(es) will b released... Paladin etc.?
Will there still b 3 CW +2 parties? Well... if they still can...

thx, gl n tc^^

PS: dunno if there s already a thread about it and havent found yet...

wentris

I think you approach the problem from the wrong side. Instead of forcing people to take other classes than cws/dcs you should make them WANT to have other classes except these 2 and with the current balance its hard... Well gwf is often wanted too, but others not really

charononus

A few things.

First I think the word you used means regulation in english. However a better word in english would be requirement from the context of what you wrote.

Second I disagree completely. For one, people should be allowed to form however they want.

Overall I'd say a better solution is to get out of lfg, join a good guild and channel and run with people that run similar to you.

morsitans

Also of course, unless you know that the average queue is neatly distributed between the classes, you're going to have bottlenecks. And it totally isn't, as exemplified by queueing for pugs as:
>a TR/CW (go make a cup of tea, do some dailies, derive a new proof for fermat's last theorem),
>a DC (put the kettle on if there's time), or as
>a GF (pops before you've closed the queue screen).

overddrive

neopreen wrote: »

Now that we have 6 classes already but need 5 ppl to create a party, why do we still have ppl who only creat "3 CW +2" parties?!

Well... cause they can.

I always get a party with my DC and also with my CW but with my other classes I ve to wait hours when I really wanna do a run. There r specific dungeons where other classes like the GFs r needed, not for the dungeons itself but for the kiting... thats really sad.

How about a class reglementation for party composition so that u only can create parties with 5 different classes?
(I already can hear the crying of those 3 CW +2 party players... but its about the game and the gameplay.)
What will the game b when the next class(es) will b released... Paladin etc.?
Will there still b 3 CW +2 parties? Well... if they still can...

thx, gl n tc^^

PS: dunno if there s already a thread about it and havent found yet...

Epic word there, Reglementation. I would say "no" to forcing party composition of specific classes and "yes" to forced composition of specific "roles". Control, heal, dps, tank, dps. You could q as whatever "role" you want but you can also be kicked if you q as a tank when your playing a hr (for example). A better que system would show who was filling what role before you even hit "accept". There is enough flexibility in the classes that almost all of them can serve more than one role.

froszzt

No but a maximum of 2 would be fine IMO.

ryugasirius

wentris wrote: »

I think you approach the problem from the wrong side. Instead of forcing people to take other classes than cws/dcs you should make them WANT to have other classes except these 2 and with the current balance its hard... Well gwf is often wanted too, but others not really

Yep. If i.e. dungeons had less mobs and they were a bit stronger and more CC immune, CWs wouldn't be a must, and you'd want a tank and a TR for those.

zacazu

Ok , we have a problem here:

I have a cw and solve run with other cw: what your ranger has it ? I need to have my freedom to choose who I want to run with . The question is : why is it better to run with my friend cw than your ranger ?

The blessed success cw pve synergy is due to the class. " I'm a guy who , to compensate for my weakness , explodes / control things ." A second cw the party but will not let me 2x more fragile , but double the capacity of blast / control .

The first solution : If the cw A caused an effect X on the enemy , it will be partially immunized the same effect for the cw B. and the same goes for critical skills from other classes ( bleed , stealth , etc. ) .

Ok , zacazu : you changed 6 per half dozen . No! This would be the preventive change of something bigger . It is important that power values ​​of different classes gather together among themselves .

For example : I did slam my gwf and stuns enemies . If cw use avalanch , we have a bowling alley that will earn you 20 % more damage . And so on .

If a group of brave cw want to run anyway , just to prove they can. Okay If you share the video on youtube , will my like . But the point is that a mixed party needs to be more profitable than multiple cw (or ranger / tr / etc ) .

ps:imagine a damage boost of this +

jenisyde

The problem is incompetent players who think 3CW > Multi class composition. I think a good start to fixing this is to let GWF with IV tank spec be considered a "tank" in lieu of just GF. That way queue makes more sense.

twstdecho

Why try to force things you want by regulating other people's groups and force them to act in a way you find acceptable? That only breeds resentment.

Instead, try using incentives to encourage different behavior without forcing people, or taking away options. Zacazu is on the right track.

twstdecho

An idea I had, that is floating around the forum somewhere, to help with this is to assign a character weight to each group member, and a capped max group character weight. Design the weighting system so that as you add like classes, their weight increases exponentially. You end up with a system where you have some incentive to run with a more diverse group, so you can have more members in your party (6 total), you can have 2 like members of 2 different classes while still running a 5 man group, but if you want 3 members of any one class, you are limited to 4 total party members.

twstdecho

ryugasirius wrote: »

Yep. If i.e. dungeons had less mobs and they were a bit stronger and more CC immune, CWs wouldn't be a must, and you'd want a tank and a TR for those.

This isn't too bad, but I would be careful about mobs, in general, being used to make particular classes or abilities useless more so than they already are. You already have an end boss full of CC immune adds (FH) and the answer there is just to let one character kite all the adds while everyone else burns down the boss.

I think the answer is in mechanics, particularly in boss fights, and in damage types. Arcane, Divine, Piercing, Bludgeoning and Slashing damage could all come into play to help even things out and make other types of classes more useful.

morsitans

Cross-class synergy (a la guild wars, or perhaps dragon age) might be interesting: make status effects and powers feed off each other in cross-class specific fashion, so power X does more damage/provides additional effect while targets are affected by status Y which you can only get by inviting class Z, and so on. It'd also reward more skill, since you could factor in stacking effects and timing (wait till the CW does A and then the GF uses B, wait for the DC to stick C on you, THEN hit the boss with D).

zacazu

morsitans wrote: »

Cross-class synergy (a la guild wars, or perhaps dragon age) might be interesting: make status effects and powers feed off each other in cross-class specific fashion, so power X does more damage/provides additional effect while targets are affected by status Y which you can only get by inviting class Z, and so on. It'd also reward more skill, since you could factor in stacking effects and timing (wait till the CW does A and then the GF uses B, wait for the DC to stick C on you, THEN hit the boss with D).

ok, my experience with mmo restricted to nwo and ddo, I swear I based on Chrono Trigger ... haha

but as the game itself is famous, well, is to unite the useful with the agreeable.

chemboy613

Oh man, i'd love a chrono trigger system, but what about all the combos into sing?

That said, i do often run 3 CW parties. Why is a good reason.

First of all I know probably 30+ good CWs, 20+ good GWF, 15+ good DCs, maybe 5-10 good TR, something like 2-3 good HRs and i know almost no good GFs (except myself, and i'm not exceptional at GF). So if i want to find a CW or a GWF it is very very easy for me.

Secondly, people want to play their CWs. I know many players who made TR first, switched to CW/GWF/HR and they all like the CW/GWF/HR better. By sheer player choice, people don't really want to play TR/DC/GF.

Thirdly, I like to clear quickly, burn the mobs down, and not wipe. In terms of AOE DPS, HR is most, then CW and GWF are good, then GF/TR and DC DPS (limited but not insignificant). In terms of control CW is most, then GF/TR, HR/GWF, and DC (what control)? Smoke bomb by TR is amazing, and GF is amazing at controling one powerful mob. In terms of Buff/Debuff a good DC is most, then CW, then GWF, then TR/GF/HR. Yes i know the TR/GF/HR have some great buff/debuff abilities, but many CW/GWF do it as they do other things, rather than slotting fray (amazing) or wicked reminder (amazing), or aspect of pack (amazing.

So how to clear efficently? you pull as much as you can, you buff/debuff as much as you can, and then you AOE DPS as much as you can. So if I want to pull 20+ mobs, that makes CW/GWF very good and TR/GF very bad. (DC and HR are great too, but they need CW to control to be effective).

what about the bosses? how to not wipe? Well, most bosses, while they might have tons of HP and do insane damage, their attacks are slow and easy to dodge. Take the adds out of the fight and almost any fight is now easy. So the problem isn't how do we kill the boss, that's an after thought. It's how do we control/DPS the adds most effectively? so then bring more CW, sing, shard, blow it up, and then GWF with wicked strike and student of the sword, take a terror and plaguefire, and you can kill draco in 3 minutes or so.

Now, if we were playing the game as intended, one encounter at a time, then GF draws aggro, TR kill high priority mobs, CW controls the annoying ones, DC heals - yes that would be great, however 1) we are so powerful we simply don't have to and 2) that is very slow and would take forever.

So as long as the goal is to maximize AD/seal/DD chests/whatever per hour, just stack CW and GWF.

I must say though, this DOESN'T hold true for MC, where there are bigger, stronger, uncontrollable mobs. If there were a set of T3 dungeons with encounters more like mini-bosses, wouldn't we all love it? i think we would.