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PTR - Tenacity testing on GWF
ayroux
Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
I am trying to give sincere feedback about all the testing/min/maxing on the PTR regarding the GWF class.
Quick background for those who dont know, I have been playing this game for almost a year now (since OB). I have 5 lvl 60s, 2 GWFs 2 GFs and a TR. I "main" GWF and GF. Chracter names are: Tempirius, Heimdall, Curse, Mjolnir, WTFproned for those that care.
This is written from my GWF perspective regarding the class balance.
So far I have really enjoyed the tenacity stat. As my GWF I feel that a major part of what makes the GWF so powerful is not just the massive DR but in truth the synergy Unstoppable/regen/HP all have together. On the PTR not only is my unstoppable heal cut in half but the temp HP I get is also. The regen is cut in half as well severely diminishing my ability to regen to significant HP, I enjoy this because it is no longer just a face tank regen battle, its a "slowly watch you HP dwindle" battle.
My only concern is that the DR on the GWF class is just too high, I just want to lay this out.
I am wearing 4/4 of the new T2.5 and 2/4 of the GG setup, so my tenacity is very high (22%) including neck/rings/belt.
I dont even have much defense (around 2400-2600) but my DR from that defense is about 42%. Sents have "Sentinel Aegis" at the end of their tree which says it increases the effectiveness of the defense stat by 20%. Im not sure exactly what this does but I know when I go get attacked by a mob, the math shows I have about 54-55% DR, thats NO buffs, NO unstoppable or anything. So the true "buff" from Sent Aegis is around 12%.
Then again, I have 22% from Tenacity meaning an additional DR in PVP, Lets assume 54% *1.22% = 65.88% total DR. Thats without ANY buffs.
Now, this is really high damage resist but its actually not the issue I have with the class, maybe slightly but not the main issue.
On my Sentinel GWF I can also deal out massive amount of damage. The typical "Tank versus damage" game where traditionally the more tanky you are the less damage you deal doesnt seem to apply. Here is why:
With the gear mentioned above, I dont have to use ANY azure enchants and I sit around the 2500 crit rating, no boons there either. Combined with a 21 Dex roll I have an innate ~34-35% Crit. Then adding weapon master stacks I gain a potential (but almost 100% up time) 10% MORE crit meaning Im normally rocking atleast 40% crit if not up towards 44-45%. For a Sentinel with Perfect vorpal thats a pretty big deal.
Not only that, As you know there is an ability called student of the sword -with 5 points in that, each time I crit (again very high crit chance) I reduce my opponents defense up to 45%!
Not only that! But I have 24 Con 25 with fire buff which gives GWF armor pen. I also have 2100 armor pen stat through Dark enchants. When you total all of that I am sitting at 37% armor penetration which is alot higher than I think any class can really get besides a HR (my GF slightly lags at around 35%).
So lets recap where we are to this point.
65.88% DR, has an ability to become CC immune ever few seconds (and gets 20%+ DR from unstoppable, has 38k HP, 40%+ crit chance, 37% armor pen. Sounds beefy right? But wait! There is more!!!
Typically with Melee classes they normally have pros and cons, the PRO is they deal nasty damage up close the CON is that they are melee range so they can often get kited around making it hard to deal any damage.
Well why does that not apply to Sentinels?
Well for starters every few seconds you get unstoppable which makes you immune to CC/slow and anything really. Ontop of THAT GWFs stamina is a sprint meter for a nice gap closer - this seems fairly balanced actually as its consumed fast, but ontop of already which was a seemingly fair game, GWFs were given two new abilities in Mod 2 that really changed the game.
1) Frontline surge. This ability is a ranged prone meaning that its a great opener for alot of people since its hard to tell exactly when its coming, the range is very long so its hard to out run it, AND now on the PTR it has increased width as well making it harder to miss.
- This alone isnt that OP but combined with alot of the points mentioned above it makes staying IN melee range pretty easy to do.
2) Threatening Rush. Not this ability really changed the game for multiple reasons, I wont get into animation cancelling here. But this is an AT WILL that is a gap closer. So now when you have ANY class try and kite you, you have ANOTHER way to close the gap.
- Say a CW teleports away from you, normally this would be detrimental but NOW you have three choices. 1) Sprint towards them. 2) Frontline Surge to prone them 3) Threat rush.
The second issue with threat rush is it applies a mark, this is big because mark = a -8% DR debuff, as does the GF mark. The issue isnt just the 8% debuff but Sentinels ALSO get a talent in which you deal MORE damage (15% more) to "marked targets". So not only is the ability that is an INFINITE gap closer clutch in never being able to be kited around, it also gives a 23% damage boost. Combine that with SotS with the 45% defense reduction and 37% armor pen, you can see how IBS crits deal massive damage.
I would really suggest a few options to the DEVs here and please dont flame about the PVE rammifications of this because I dont think this will really change much for PVE.
Option 1) Make Unstoppable/determination gained not as just damage taken, but as a % of HP lost. What this would mean is that instead of only having to lose about 8-9% of my HP on my Sent now, It would be something like 20% of your HP lost for half a determination bar.
What this solves is the ultra tankiness of the class and the amazing CC immunity it gives. This also helps lesser HP/DR GWFs since they will be able to go unstoppable MORE than they could now. So this only really hurts Sent GWFs and actually buffs other GWF specs.
Option 2) Put Threat Rush on a 3-4 sec CD. Much like "cloud of steel" TR has a 3 second recharge, I think Threat Rush should have a similar CD. The ability to spam this ability and close gaps with it with NO cd or no "consumable resource" really makes it impossible to play against. Again with unstoppible CC immunity, prones, sprint and dont forget CC resist now too! GWF is like a juggernaut that cant be stopped that just runs through almost all classes like butter. The only exceptions are GF now with the block meter and perma TRs who can hide in stealth.
Option 3) Remove some of the damage a Sentinel can dish out, like the mark feat INSTEAD of giving 15% more damage to marked targets, offer 20% more threat to marked targets. This still assists in tanking without making the TANK gwf dish out really high damage. Also look at weapon master as that single feat gives AC/deflect/Crit just attacking. Maybe this needs a small tone-down from 5 stacks to say 3 stacks, so 6% more crit/6% more deflect and still 5AC. This would cut my deflect/crit down 4% each.
I am really being sincere here since the Sent GWF seems to still be the best 1v1 class and the most PROs with almost no CONs... Most classes have these tradeoffs but this class seems to really take the cake.
I hope this gets the DEVs attention....
Quick background for those who dont know, I have been playing this game for almost a year now (since OB). I have 5 lvl 60s, 2 GWFs 2 GFs and a TR. I "main" GWF and GF. Chracter names are: Tempirius, Heimdall, Curse, Mjolnir, WTFproned for those that care.
This is written from my GWF perspective regarding the class balance.
So far I have really enjoyed the tenacity stat. As my GWF I feel that a major part of what makes the GWF so powerful is not just the massive DR but in truth the synergy Unstoppable/regen/HP all have together. On the PTR not only is my unstoppable heal cut in half but the temp HP I get is also. The regen is cut in half as well severely diminishing my ability to regen to significant HP, I enjoy this because it is no longer just a face tank regen battle, its a "slowly watch you HP dwindle" battle.
My only concern is that the DR on the GWF class is just too high, I just want to lay this out.
I am wearing 4/4 of the new T2.5 and 2/4 of the GG setup, so my tenacity is very high (22%) including neck/rings/belt.
I dont even have much defense (around 2400-2600) but my DR from that defense is about 42%. Sents have "Sentinel Aegis" at the end of their tree which says it increases the effectiveness of the defense stat by 20%. Im not sure exactly what this does but I know when I go get attacked by a mob, the math shows I have about 54-55% DR, thats NO buffs, NO unstoppable or anything. So the true "buff" from Sent Aegis is around 12%.
Then again, I have 22% from Tenacity meaning an additional DR in PVP, Lets assume 54% *1.22% = 65.88% total DR. Thats without ANY buffs.
Now, this is really high damage resist but its actually not the issue I have with the class, maybe slightly but not the main issue.
On my Sentinel GWF I can also deal out massive amount of damage. The typical "Tank versus damage" game where traditionally the more tanky you are the less damage you deal doesnt seem to apply. Here is why:
With the gear mentioned above, I dont have to use ANY azure enchants and I sit around the 2500 crit rating, no boons there either. Combined with a 21 Dex roll I have an innate ~34-35% Crit. Then adding weapon master stacks I gain a potential (but almost 100% up time) 10% MORE crit meaning Im normally rocking atleast 40% crit if not up towards 44-45%. For a Sentinel with Perfect vorpal thats a pretty big deal.
Not only that, As you know there is an ability called student of the sword -with 5 points in that, each time I crit (again very high crit chance) I reduce my opponents defense up to 45%!
Not only that! But I have 24 Con 25 with fire buff which gives GWF armor pen. I also have 2100 armor pen stat through Dark enchants. When you total all of that I am sitting at 37% armor penetration which is alot higher than I think any class can really get besides a HR (my GF slightly lags at around 35%).
So lets recap where we are to this point.
65.88% DR, has an ability to become CC immune ever few seconds (and gets 20%+ DR from unstoppable, has 38k HP, 40%+ crit chance, 37% armor pen. Sounds beefy right? But wait! There is more!!!
Typically with Melee classes they normally have pros and cons, the PRO is they deal nasty damage up close the CON is that they are melee range so they can often get kited around making it hard to deal any damage.
Well why does that not apply to Sentinels?
Well for starters every few seconds you get unstoppable which makes you immune to CC/slow and anything really. Ontop of THAT GWFs stamina is a sprint meter for a nice gap closer - this seems fairly balanced actually as its consumed fast, but ontop of already which was a seemingly fair game, GWFs were given two new abilities in Mod 2 that really changed the game.
1) Frontline surge. This ability is a ranged prone meaning that its a great opener for alot of people since its hard to tell exactly when its coming, the range is very long so its hard to out run it, AND now on the PTR it has increased width as well making it harder to miss.
- This alone isnt that OP but combined with alot of the points mentioned above it makes staying IN melee range pretty easy to do.
2) Threatening Rush. Not this ability really changed the game for multiple reasons, I wont get into animation cancelling here. But this is an AT WILL that is a gap closer. So now when you have ANY class try and kite you, you have ANOTHER way to close the gap.
- Say a CW teleports away from you, normally this would be detrimental but NOW you have three choices. 1) Sprint towards them. 2) Frontline Surge to prone them 3) Threat rush.
The second issue with threat rush is it applies a mark, this is big because mark = a -8% DR debuff, as does the GF mark. The issue isnt just the 8% debuff but Sentinels ALSO get a talent in which you deal MORE damage (15% more) to "marked targets". So not only is the ability that is an INFINITE gap closer clutch in never being able to be kited around, it also gives a 23% damage boost. Combine that with SotS with the 45% defense reduction and 37% armor pen, you can see how IBS crits deal massive damage.
I would really suggest a few options to the DEVs here and please dont flame about the PVE rammifications of this because I dont think this will really change much for PVE.
Option 1) Make Unstoppable/determination gained not as just damage taken, but as a % of HP lost. What this would mean is that instead of only having to lose about 8-9% of my HP on my Sent now, It would be something like 20% of your HP lost for half a determination bar.
What this solves is the ultra tankiness of the class and the amazing CC immunity it gives. This also helps lesser HP/DR GWFs since they will be able to go unstoppable MORE than they could now. So this only really hurts Sent GWFs and actually buffs other GWF specs.
Option 2) Put Threat Rush on a 3-4 sec CD. Much like "cloud of steel" TR has a 3 second recharge, I think Threat Rush should have a similar CD. The ability to spam this ability and close gaps with it with NO cd or no "consumable resource" really makes it impossible to play against. Again with unstoppible CC immunity, prones, sprint and dont forget CC resist now too! GWF is like a juggernaut that cant be stopped that just runs through almost all classes like butter. The only exceptions are GF now with the block meter and perma TRs who can hide in stealth.
Option 3) Remove some of the damage a Sentinel can dish out, like the mark feat INSTEAD of giving 15% more damage to marked targets, offer 20% more threat to marked targets. This still assists in tanking without making the TANK gwf dish out really high damage. Also look at weapon master as that single feat gives AC/deflect/Crit just attacking. Maybe this needs a small tone-down from 5 stacks to say 3 stacks, so 6% more crit/6% more deflect and still 5AC. This would cut my deflect/crit down 4% each.
I am really being sincere here since the Sent GWF seems to still be the best 1v1 class and the most PROs with almost no CONs... Most classes have these tradeoffs but this class seems to really take the cake.
I hope this gets the DEVs attention....
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Comments
so u would ruin weapon master to other gwf builds to?if u ask me they should move arp bonus from con to dex so there is easy 10%+ less damage on sentin so dose mark feat need to change to thread from damage and frontline should not prone targets or have its damage a lot more reduced and sent would be a lot less op then
The Weapon Master is just ONE idea because Sents have a feat that give deflect AND AC when you use it as well. Also yes the mark adding more threat instead of damage I think would be a balance.
Notice I didnt say anything about Deep Gash which was a huge damage boost in PVE for GWFs and Most GWFs who build right are pretty capable of getting 50% + Crit in PVE, so even a small 4% nerf wouldnt be that big.
I am more hoping about the first few options as potential instead but something needs to be done...
I really like this idea as well for the same reasons. Also it doesnt really require any other changes for the class.
And please ignore anyone who says GWFs are "balanced" we all know they are not and im not trying to nerf them down the toilet, just make the balanced as its gotten to the point I dont even like playing my GWF because it just seems like im cheating...
Second: Remove mark from TR already. Yes it will hurt us GF first, but when the dev give it to other skills like Aggraving strike it will benefit the GF class very, especially the unbalance within the three trees. This will remove the problem of mark given to GWF easy.
The problem with Sentinel is, that they gain to defensive stats with offstats! WM is the perfect example. Man really? +15% Deflect chance and +5 AC with 7,5% Crit chance?! Remove the WM from this feat and give it to another non-offensive passive like Steel defense or Steel grace or Bravery.
@ayroux: What's the problem with Destroyer/Instigator GWFs? Does the com complain about them being indestructible?
But no. Don't move the Arpen from Con to dex. I hate when offensive get easy achievable. First yes it's plain stupid, that defensive get this, but a GWF that have all +damage + crit + Arp + resistances to AoE/DoT is false! You MUST choose your right stat to gain good builds. Achieving this without a restriction is so wrong!
Building determination with lost % HP is in a way false. You can have it up 24/7 in epic dungeon. And that is stupid for me. If they increase the needed damage income, then it will be right, because Destroyer has a very good feat+skill to build extrem determination. Second the Destroyer capstone need a tweak to build really determination based on damage dealt(5% determination for a 9k crit IBS and 2 Sure strike hits with 800 build the same?!). Then they will decrease the gap between unstoppable phases near to sentinel. Only Instigator is harmed in this way, but then we can find another way.
This is my opinion to the broken balance within the GWF.
it is wrong to have tank atribute to boost dps by 15% so i realy think it is not place of arp on con atribute
as for Building determination it should have been as sugested before on many other threads it should be changed to % of hp lost to recharge it instead of fixed value of damage taken from which benfits the sent the most since it can have more then 4 pops before die while instigator/destoryer only one
Highly defensive tanks would be able to pop Unstoppable less often, and it would offer them less in the way of Defense except for it's already existing Control immunity and as a means to extend their HP bar.
GWF who don't invest in their defenses will be able to use it more often and gain significant DR from it, but the Temp HP they gained wouldn't be enough to turn the odds in 2v1 scenarios (where a Tank could use this HP to last into another encounter rotation).
Funny. Do you really think CON is so strong? Even Sentinel haven't a really benefit from it. What matter if i have 8 points more in Con? +16% health. That's about 4,2k or so in Health you would loose. Okay give it to Dex. Now the sentinel has the choice. +8% damage increase, +8% stamina regeneration and +8% DoT resistance against the +4,2k Health. Do you think that's a big difference? For healing it's only 260 health/tick difference, but the +damage is maybe more than that! So giving sentinel MORE damage with a little tweaking health isn't fair or? And if they choose strength over dex as second one, they will gain +8% crit, +4% deflect and +8% AoE resistance. Now explain me how the sentinel path will hurt SO much?
It's been stated multiple times that this is not, in fact, the way Tenacity DR stacks.
Can you explain how Tenecity work then? I haven't played on testserver, so this part is really important for me.
Tenacity Only gives you extra defense in PvP here let me show you all my armor has tenacity and my accesorys are all full t2 the only thing i dont have tenacitys on are my weapoons and thats about 300 or more extra tenacitys i am missing but with that i get a extra 21% wurth of resistances in PvP it actualy makes my job as HR easy Tenacity has nothing to do at least from my testing with the debuffs you get when you attack a player in PvP currect me if i am wroung it dosent seem to directly stack with base dmg resistance also
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have done tests on the sentinel final feat before, the way is works is simple: 1.2 coefficient to the defense-mitigation curve.
Use this good resource for the curve: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj
As for those new PvP bonuses, are they additive? That would be HUGE. Multiplicative? If so, the more DR the greater the benefit, doesn't seem fair. Is there a floor value below which the bonus can not go? Is it 10% additive minimum? Who knows?
If you have the time do the tests because the devs won't tell us anything we need to know.
Ask a sentinel or HR to stay after the PVP battle is over. Ask him about his stats to find out the full mitigation value and hit him a couple of times, observe the log. Watch out for deflects.
Guy, sorry, but all your words explain 0. On test i see myself with 10% Tenecity resistance for PvP. But this explain nothing. What's the case:
C1
TDR = Tenecity DR 10%
ODR = Own DR 15%
Arpen = 20%
Arpen-TDR = new Arpen 10%
ODR - NArpen = 5%
Damage*(1-0,05) = Damage received(95%)
OR C2:
TDR = 20%
ODR = 20%
Arpen = 15%
Arpen - TDR = -5%
Damage*(1-0,2-0,05) = Damage received(75%)
OR C3:
TDR = 20%
ODR = 15%
Arpen = 15%
Arpen -TDR = -5%
Damage*(1-0,15) = Damage received(85%)
So what's the case? Only Arpen Counter or really DR additive or even DR multiplication?
My apologies, I corrected the OP with the proper math. Its still the same result GWF > all.
Actually this makes things even MORE broken. YOu take a GWF/GF with even say 50% DR and having it multiply another 1.22% on there is a WAY bigger buff then having 20% DR getting a boost of 22% tenacity = 20*1.22 = 24.4%
So on the LESS squishy target (GWF) you gain like 10% MORE DR where as on the super squishy target you gain 4%?
Or am I doing that wrong?
Has anyone tested to see if tenacity calculates before or after armor pen as well?
I mostly agree with what ayroux wrote, but would like to add that in addition to the 54% or so DR you already have, you then on top get a ton of deflect chance (not rating, so no diminishing returns) as Sentinel (Scale Agility, Master at Arms) which you don't as another flavor of GWF.
Honestly, my feeling is that the Master at Arms feat needs to be looked at and toned down (for example by linking it to a different feature that is underused, such as Steadfast Determination or removing the Deflect Chance from it altogether) and Aegis could increase Restoring Strike Healing by 100% instead of 50% but instead only make Defense Stat 5% more effective (considering we already get a 15% bonus from Heroic Feat Armor Specialization), which would bring it on par with the other GWF capstone feats which are currently significantly weaker in comparison.
As for Determination gain based on Damage taken - I'm relatively certain that already happens. I get a lot less Determination with higher Defense/DR and when I deflect attacks.
Yes I didnt factor in deflect. Without Bravery I have 28-29% With bravery well its high 30s. Its a pretty massive difference...
I wouldnt be opposed to linking it to another feat for diversity, I feel like its SO good right now you cant NOT use it. I mean AC/crit/deflect? OP....
I also proposed Aegis being nerfed, Maybe even just a flat 5% DR or something.... I mean it gives like 12% ish right now...
On my GWF with <2.4k defense on PTR I have HIGHER DR than my GF who has 5k defense.... that makes no sense to me.... Just because of Sent Aegis + other feats. Seems far too OP imo.
Some great ideas in this thread overall!
One of the OPs talking points touches on Student of the Sword. This feat is currently reducing mitigation by 5% per stack in pve. We know that 15% defence reduction is 3% mitigation in pve because of greater plaguefire. This means that the feat is increasing damage even more than the OP has noted.
- Defense is high and DR is high, but again, we are taking damage 100% of the time and being debuffed 100% of the time. I think it's good if we can be tanky but not immortal regenerating walls.
- Frontline is hard to avoid cause you can't say when it will be used. But it applies also the opposite. Frontline is a 19 seconds CD power. You need to use it very carefully, cause you too don't know when the CW/TR/GF/DC/HR will immune teleport/ dodge roll/ shift/ block, nullifying your frontline and forcing you to wait 19 seconds to prone someone. And, considering our best damage power (IBS) can connect only on proned targets (else it can be dodge easily, even with just a small sprint), i think it's fair. The enemy don't know when we will use it, and takes a risk. But using it, we also take the risk to have it dodged. Which would put us in a big disadvantage.
- Threat rush...i would not put a 4 seconds cooldown. Just fix the animation issue and make it connect properly (on a moving target it usually bugs out). If you have to wait for the animation to end before you can use an encounter, it is not a big advantage. You also have to consider that now we have HRs in PVP, and they can root you a lot, through unstoppable too. Which means it's not considered CC, which means tenacity does not apply to root effects. Without threat rush, you would never reach a HR before he can kill you. Not with healing depression greatly decreasing your ability to regenerate/ heal against ranged classes. If a CD has to be applied, anyway, i would make it 2 seconds, not 4. 2 seconds is enough, if you ask me.
- The way to fix sentinel tanks damage is simple, if you ask me. I already made a post in the general discussion section. This is my idea:
switch ArP to STR, and move DoT resistance or stamina regeneration to CON. Before these PvP changes, with regeneration healing us a lot, this change would lead to overkill tankyness on tank builds. But now, it would:
- make full tank builds a but more tanky, but at the cost of a real loss in damage
- make STR based, DPS builds viable for PvP, cause now you would have a REAL damage advantage compared to the tank builds
- make STR good for PvP too. So far, CON was the best stat for PvP: best HP plus best ArP, which is, hands down, the best offensive stat for PvP: it stack MUCH better than any other stat and while for PvE you just need 24% Resistance ignored, for PvP it's the best way to increase your damage against anyone. STR is the primary attribute for a GWF, and i think it would be better to have it be the primary attribute for both PvE and PvP.
As i said in the other topics, if i got it well, GFs are now way more tanky than GWFs. So, most lilkely, they will be the best node-holders, replacing sentinels in this role. GWFs will, then, probably be better at fighting on point 2, brawling and dealing damage. With ArP on STR, we could see destroyer builds doing their job in PvP too, and people would have a reason to go destroyer/ DPS in PvP.
Right now, everyone goes sentinel CON tank cause it gives the best defensive and offensive power in PvP.
First thing i want to tell y this is a P.V.E GAME .
Called Dungeons And Dragons Neverwinter ......
And not calling Player VS Player WINTER...(my suggestion if y all want more pvp go play other games )
First thing i want to tell y about swordmaster is the best melee class in D&D second is paladin what we have not ...
But if y want realy nerf& destroy Sentinel paragon path & buff destro or insigniator my suggestion is this:
Change Unstoppable to Berzerker or Fenzy skill half determination -12.5% to Dmg resist +12.5% more Dmg full bar 25% still immune to cc and we can get the temp hit points too ..
This will hurt more sentinel path and make Destro and Insigniator more powerfull ...
All your suggestions are destroying the class in pve and this is PVE game..
I payed much more then all of y ever payed for this game or the op, I play whit my friends and beat dung for fun , and i only do pvp for the daly 4 k ad..
But ppl how want always nerf somthing in pvp complite ruin class-s in pve & ppl like me will leave the game cuz of the population 90% do more pve the pvp ,and how do only pvp will play in empty desert or better play alone.
In the Preview Shard. The sets are there now and you can enjoy them too.
As for the topic, I still believe that most of the problems we encounter against IV Sents can be fixed by simply moving Deep Gash to T4 Destroyer, and removing the Temp. HP that Unstoppable provides GWF's. High Damage Reduction and deflect in conjunction with the Temp. HP they get from Unstoppable completely staunches whatever damage we can deal to them whenever they are under the Unstoppable Mechanic. This will allow us to retain the current Unstoppable mechanic without killing the GWF's survival or offensive capabilities. They'll still be able to pop it often, giving them the offensive capabilities associated with Unstoppable, without completely staunching the DPS their opponents throw at them via the use of their Temp. HP.
In order to make up for the loss in Temp. HP, I've been theorizing that giving GWF's a 15% - 30% slower Stamina Loss and a 15% - 30% extra Movement Speed (based on the amount of Determination they have when using Unstoppable) while under Unstoppable would provide them with the extra survivability they need in PVE and PVP (escaping Red Zones) while adding further utility to their Unstoppable mechanic in PVP. It can be used as an escape mechanic or a way to start combat against a faraway foe. Of course GWF's will still be able to keep their extra Damage Reduction whenever they use Unstoppable, it's just the Temp. HP that synergizes too well with DR and Deflect that will be going away.
Does this sound acceptable or is it overkill? I tried putting every detail of a battle I can imagine into consideration and this is basically what I think would be one of the simplest solutions the devs can do in order to allow the GWF's to keep the current state of their mechanic without completely destroying how Unstoppable works.
Here was just one of the times I tested the PTR pvp before they removed ARP Supression.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x697kT8hDYs
And here is one I recorded only a few days ago AFTER they removed ARP supression. I have been on the PTR more than LIVE and have played many matches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-danZ5aY40
I clipped all the footage and put it into nice little 1v1s, I had alot of actual match footage but frankly was boring as its me running around and every 30 seconds - 1min killing 1 person.
Enjoy!
Id honestly like to see Determination gained based upon % of HP lost AND Threat Rush getting a 3-4 second CD. Or maybe even a "charge" animation. I mean you could even have threat rush consume stamina so its not spammable. GFs get the benefit of no stamina so it doesnt consume stamina but hey, thats how the class was all along, GWFs getting IV is what provided them with threat rush which changed the game.
I see, that does make sense and I guess that would be a better solution overall. I honestly thought about these things before the PVP patch was announced so they may not be as relevant as they were before thanks to Healing Depression. :-?