Might want to try things without the insults. I'm not 12 year old, I'm 33, but guess what, I don't like the foundry. There is almost zero character progression, zero loot (outside of fey blessing farms), and zero challenge. I'll put this out to the authors now. If you can kill me with something other than putting your entire encounter limit in the smallest room possible so no one has a way to move I will find a way to tip you 100,000 ad. You will not be able to do it and I will never pay this out.
This means I get no reward, while reading (mostly) badly done fan fiction level stories, while experiencing no challenge, what part of that is suppossed to be fun for me?
Guitarzan wasn't being insulting. Nor was he saying any of us are the 12yr old player. Game companies market to them, and pre-teens generally are the majority of a games population. You can argue that maybe they focus on 12-30yr olds but I would bet that since the age range is below 18 it has to be centered around the highest population of the underage demographic. Can't have lewd stuff if you want under 18 and 21 players. So cater to the lowest standard. I played on NWN servers for nearly 10yrs. I can't believe people are still there, pod casts still. New content... Oblivion/Skyrim has truly made me a graphics snob. Dang you Bethesda!!!!!
Most D&D players are in their 50's. I'm 36. I came here looking for the old NWN players that got tired of the birds eye view.
Since the Foundry is still a great tool, I don't see why an oldschool RP community can't still thrive. If we could assign tags to our foundries like RP low-combat as they do to us in a review, we could make some tough mentally challenging RP-friendly missions/adventures to play through with friends. But with Inns that are instanced it is hard to meet up with people in this game. It does almost seem like they took extra effort to push RP'ers out that might sit and chat in one place. Not having an Or logic anywhere in the foundry. But, they gave us the Foundry. (go to your corner you imaginative realist!)
Then again, I think back to day one. After learning about pnp D&D and the books of stories. I had always looked forward to a movie, or video game just as good. Every time one came out, besides one short lived cartoon, I was always disappointed on how far away from D&D it really was. Almost just more of a mockery than a tribute.
Might want to try things without the insults. I'm not 12 year old, I'm 33, but guess what, I don't like the foundry. There is almost zero character progression, zero loot (outside of fey blessing farms), and zero challenge. I'll put this out to the authors now. If you can kill me with something other than putting your entire encounter limit in the smallest room possible so no one has a way to move I will find a way to tip you 100,000 ad. You will not be able to do it and I will never pay this out.
This means I get no reward, while reading (mostly) badly done fan fiction level stories, while experiencing no challenge, what part of that is supposed to be fun for me?
The Foundry is not, and will never be for you then.
Foundry is not about loot, its not about uber challenge, and yes there are a lot of ****ty stories out there, but this is because people don't like to read and only want loot, an uber challenge and could care less about a crafted story experience and most authors know this is the best way to get tons of plays so they ignore the story and RP elements of D&D and throw as much standard MMO drivel in that they can. Not getting loot could get worked on, but that is a subject that can be exploited so many ways if not done right. If people are playing ONLY for loot, then D&D was never their genre to begin with.
Honestly, try as much as I can to not be insulting, but I am confused as to why your even roaming the Foundry forums.
This could be the sword that kills the Foundry. I do not seeing the console version release with the Foundry. I think that would be a big technical issue, and if NWO starts to profits too much from the Console edition, without any help from the Foundry, they might see that as a sign and just dump the Foundry all together, and then another innovative gaming feature that needed some TLC will just get thrown out in favor of flooding the market with clone and clone of unoriginal ****.
This could be the sword that kills the Foundry. I do not seeing the console version release with the Foundry. I think that would be a big technical issue, and if NWO starts to profits too much from the Console edition, without any help from the Foundry, they might see that as a sign and just dump the Foundry all together, and then another innovative gaming feature that needed some TLC will just get thrown out in favor of flooding the market with clone and clone of unoriginal ****.
I could imagine 1/3 things happening to this game's Foundry.
1. If the "super secret project" that relocated STO's EP is simply the console stuff, then I highly doubt that the Foundry would be in the port. Maybe it's possible, but porting it is probably one of the lowest priorities. They developed the thing for NW. STO was the trial and listening to all of our feedback before shipping it off to a different game and gifting the STO responsibilities to devs who had never been trained as part of the team.
When PWE took over, NW had a much earlier launch date. They extended by like a year, iirc. I suspect a lot of that had to do with too much emphasis on player-created content. That doesn't sell shinies. F2P games need to generate $$$. The Foundry might fascinate PWE, but they don't see it as a revenue source.
So, in this scenario, the future of Cryptic and the Foundry have already parted ways.
2. The secret project might be related to a new game in development that includes ugc. If that is the case, then it probably won't be long before history repeats itself. Maybe that will be good for the Foundry as an evolving tool. But, it won't be good for your Foundry if you're not a fan of that new game. Nobody at STO is in charge of the thing, except the EP. Apparently, our game has to beg for programmers who know how to update it, according to a recent dev interview.
If that's the case, then whatever state your Foundry is in right now will probably be permanent, albeit with minor quality of life improvements. They might add a few things here and there, but expect each big update to break things.
3. The Foundry team isn't going anywhere. But, think about it from an EP and PWE perspective. They'll look at the numbers. They'll look at revenue. They'll look at how the majority of players are playing the game. They'll invest resources accordingly. You probably have a better sense of your community. But, at STO, probably less than 5% of the players love and play Foundry stories. Other use it to farm until they figure out better ways to farm. Of course, others exploit the heck out of it. The percentage of passionate story-tellers compared to general players is probably less than 1% of the game's population. It's probably more like .03%.
So, maybe you'll still have your Foundry devs, if they don't get reassigned to more important jobs.
Bottom line is this: When PWE took over, F2P became the model. If Foundry play is not tied into the revenue stream (or only indirectly keeps 5% of players logging in), then it's incompatible with the F2P model. They invested heavily in it for NW, thinking that UGC would be such a huge part of NW given the history.
If it's not being played, they're going to write it off as a bad investment. That's what STO did, although we have a community manager who tries to compensate for that in various ways.
Might want to try things without the insults. I'm not 12 year old, I'm 33, but guess what, I don't like the foundry. There is almost zero character progression, zero loot (outside of fey blessing farms), and zero challenge. I'll put this out to the authors now. If you can kill me with something other than putting your entire encounter limit in the smallest room possible so no one has a way to move I will find a way to tip you 100,000 ad. You will not be able to do it and I will never pay this out.
This means I get no reward, while reading (mostly) badly done fan fiction level stories, while experiencing no challenge, what part of that is suppossed to be fun for me?
No offense or insult intended.. I was just trying to be real. IMHO it seems that the foundry is really the best part of this game... that is just my own opinion. I just have a hard time understanding why this company would attach such a great tool to their game and yet tie our hands behind our backs (so to speak) by limiting what we can effectively do with it. Let me see... hmmmm.. exploits. Yep. exploits. I understand that there will always be those players that will try to 'beat the system', it even happened in the pnp versions. But, don't they have a room full of people just thinkin' stuff up? I'm sure they do. Timers, or logic, bosses, rewards, so many things missing from this tool set. As far as what is fun for you? By allowing the author to tag their own creations and having a working search function, the players should be able to find the adventures that are 'fun' for them. I do apologize if I offended you... it was not my intention. It is my hunch that you are the type of player that prefers the PVP arena ... and of course if you don't win, someone must have cheated.
As far as your challenge is concerned... well.. let me put it this way: when I was a younger man, I lived in a city that had a very popular gaming hall. They sold all the books and supplies for all the rpg's on the market. They also rented tables for game play. There was always a game going on there. The most popular game, by far, was DM'ed by a friend of mine. Any character, of any level, was welcome to join in the play. The DM of course had to deal with players that had their super-character and wanted to play in this game. No problem.... the game would begin like this (or something like it): You wake slowly to find yourself hanging in chains from a wall... in some sort of a cell. All of your belonging are gone.. you are covered in blood and you hurt everywhere. [the DM would then ask for their character sheet and begin crossing off stuff with his pencil]. This was the most challenging and fun game most of us had ever been involved with. It was not about the rewards. It was about fun.. and challenge.. and survival. I know it may not sound like fun for today's gamers but trust me, it was.
In my own humble opinion, to limit the tool set AND not give us any rewards to speak of.. is a double whammy. That was my point. No insult intended.
So much "Stop liking what I don't like!" from authors here.
As kirksplat showed already, maybe 1% of foundry players are in it for the story. This is in line with what Cryptic's CEO publicly spoke about (the gdc presentation by him on UGC is out the there, and the video has been directly linked in these types of discussions by posters like kamaliicious on these forums before). Cryptic's CEO pointed out that most ugc is released within a month or two of the tool being available, eg they already have all the ugc they need.
So major improvments to Foundry? Adding all those things people request? I don't see those coming, the dev cost versus $ reward to Cryptic is not there. Lead Producer The Squez already publicly said in an interview linked from the news forum that that is the metric he uses to assign resources to things.
If foundry authors want peoe to appreciate their work, they need to look for a player community that appreciates the type of ugc they want to create. Sorry, but Neverwinter Online is not designed by Cryptic as a RP lovefest, its designed as an action game.
Authors, find somewhere that has a player population looking for the type of story content you want to deliver. NWO is nearing a year from when the public first saw it during betas, its not suddenly going to become a different game with a different playerbase.
Say1o: nwn1 has first person mods, and 2 has "shoulder perched" camera mod.
If foundry authors want peoe to appreciate their work, they need to look for a player community that appreciates the type of ugc they want to create. Sorry, but Neverwinter Online is not designed by Cryptic as a RP lovefest, its designed as an action game.
Authors, find somewhere that has a player population looking for the type of story content you want to deliver. .
This is the only reason why there is a Foundry community left at STO. We created Starbase UGC as a hub for what is a very small community of storytellers who are essentially writing missions for an entirely different type of game. We've been a good little community that supports the Foundry in a way that compensates for the lack of dev support.
We created Tavern UGC for NW authors to do the same thing, but it's been nearly impossible recruiting NW authors who want to make something of the site. The domain is paid for the next two years. We need people to do something with it. As you can see, there are no advertisements, which should indicate that we were essentially gifting a sister site to a related Foundry community, but nobody here took notice, it seems.
And very few of us STO authors care about NW, so the site is now dead.
If Foundry play is not tied into the revenue stream (or only indirectly keeps 5% of players logging in), then it's incompatible with the F2P model. They invested heavily in it for NW, thinking that UGC would be such a huge part of NW given the history.
Easily done. Tie it in to the Zen store - let Foundry Authors use Zen assets in UGC and provide a "Zen Assets Seen in this Quest..." linkage:
I pitched almost the exactly the same kind of idea for 2 years, before I simply gave up. Our team has been getting better about adding in new ships and mobs. Costumes are another story. Our art team is far removed from our Foundry, so generally any request that involves an artist gets ignored. Right now, one of our devs mentioned that they were looking for "Skunk work" ways of maybe convincing an artist to come in on a weekend for a few hours to throw us a few bones.
Anyway, I like the idea, but just getting a programmer to fix broken maps has been a challenge. Besides, there is probably someone thinking, "If players aren't playing Foundry, then why invest in ways to promote Zen items, especially when we can put those things on the launcher that everyone sees."
No offense or insult intended.. I was just trying to be real. IMHO it seems that the foundry is really the best part of this game... that is just my own opinion. I just have a hard time understanding why this company would attach such a great tool to their game and yet tie our hands behind our backs (so to speak) by limiting what we can effectively do with it. Let me see... hmmmm.. exploits. Yep. exploits. I understand that there will always be those players that will try to 'beat the system', it even happened in the pnp versions. But, don't they have a room full of people just thinkin' stuff up? I'm sure they do. Timers, or logic, bosses, rewards, so many things missing from this tool set. As far as what is fun for you? By allowing the author to tag their own creations and having a working search function, the players should be able to find the adventures that are 'fun' for them. I do apologize if I offended you... it was not my intention. It is my hunch that you are the type of player that prefers the PVP arena ... and of course if you don't win, someone must have cheated.
And you insult me again. Nice. I'm not a pvp'er for the most part. Most games I'm a raider, I'm just forced into pvp as a time sink. And no I've never been one of the crybabies you are calling me.
As far as your challenge is concerned... well.. let me put it this way: when I was a younger man, I lived in a city that had a very popular gaming hall. They sold all the books and supplies for all the rpg's on the market. They also rented tables for game play. There was always a game going on there. The most popular game, by far, was DM'ed by a friend of mine. Any character, of any level, was welcome to join in the play. The DM of course had to deal with players that had their super-character and wanted to play in this game. No problem.... the game would begin like this (or something like it): You wake slowly to find yourself hanging in chains from a wall... in some sort of a cell. All of your belonging are gone.. you are covered in blood and you hurt everywhere. [the DM would then ask for their character sheet and begin crossing off stuff with his pencil]. This was the most challenging and fun game most of us had ever been involved with. It was not about the rewards. It was about fun.. and challenge.. and survival. I know it may not sound like fun for today's gamers but trust me, it was.
Sitting with people at a table provides a very different form of fun than a game. It's an action mmo, it's not pnp. PnP is great but this is not pnp. They need to make traps lethal for foundries, scale every mobs hp, dr, and dps x100 for level 60's in foundries. They need to give you options for bosses. Right now my method of running foundries when I get in the mood to for some reason is to do it while watching tv as I know that there will be nothing that can challenge me in them.
In my own humble opinion, to limit the tool set AND not give us any rewards to speak of.. is a double whammy. That was my point. No insult intended.
No offense or insult intended.. I do apologize if I offended you... it was not my intention. It is my hunch that you are the type of player that prefers the PVP arena ... and of course if you don't win, someone must have cheated.
Some things you just have to laugh at. :rolleyes:
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to kill her... my knife just accidently plundged into her 71 times. Honest!!
Comments
Guitarzan wasn't being insulting. Nor was he saying any of us are the 12yr old player. Game companies market to them, and pre-teens generally are the majority of a games population. You can argue that maybe they focus on 12-30yr olds but I would bet that since the age range is below 18 it has to be centered around the highest population of the underage demographic. Can't have lewd stuff if you want under 18 and 21 players. So cater to the lowest standard. I played on NWN servers for nearly 10yrs. I can't believe people are still there, pod casts still. New content... Oblivion/Skyrim has truly made me a graphics snob. Dang you Bethesda!!!!!
Most D&D players are in their 50's. I'm 36. I came here looking for the old NWN players that got tired of the birds eye view.
Since the Foundry is still a great tool, I don't see why an oldschool RP community can't still thrive. If we could assign tags to our foundries like RP low-combat as they do to us in a review, we could make some tough mentally challenging RP-friendly missions/adventures to play through with friends. But with Inns that are instanced it is hard to meet up with people in this game. It does almost seem like they took extra effort to push RP'ers out that might sit and chat in one place. Not having an Or logic anywhere in the foundry. But, they gave us the Foundry. (go to your corner you imaginative realist!)
Then again, I think back to day one. After learning about pnp D&D and the books of stories. I had always looked forward to a movie, or video game just as good. Every time one came out, besides one short lived cartoon, I was always disappointed on how far away from D&D it really was. Almost just more of a mockery than a tribute.
The Foundry is not, and will never be for you then.
Foundry is not about loot, its not about uber challenge, and yes there are a lot of ****ty stories out there, but this is because people don't like to read and only want loot, an uber challenge and could care less about a crafted story experience and most authors know this is the best way to get tons of plays so they ignore the story and RP elements of D&D and throw as much standard MMO drivel in that they can. Not getting loot could get worked on, but that is a subject that can be exploited so many ways if not done right. If people are playing ONLY for loot, then D&D was never their genre to begin with.
Honestly, try as much as I can to not be insulting, but I am confused as to why your even roaming the Foundry forums.
This could be the sword that kills the Foundry. I do not seeing the console version release with the Foundry. I think that would be a big technical issue, and if NWO starts to profits too much from the Console edition, without any help from the Foundry, they might see that as a sign and just dump the Foundry all together, and then another innovative gaming feature that needed some TLC will just get thrown out in favor of flooding the market with clone and clone of unoriginal ****.
I could imagine 1/3 things happening to this game's Foundry.
1. If the "super secret project" that relocated STO's EP is simply the console stuff, then I highly doubt that the Foundry would be in the port. Maybe it's possible, but porting it is probably one of the lowest priorities. They developed the thing for NW. STO was the trial and listening to all of our feedback before shipping it off to a different game and gifting the STO responsibilities to devs who had never been trained as part of the team.
When PWE took over, NW had a much earlier launch date. They extended by like a year, iirc. I suspect a lot of that had to do with too much emphasis on player-created content. That doesn't sell shinies. F2P games need to generate $$$. The Foundry might fascinate PWE, but they don't see it as a revenue source.
So, in this scenario, the future of Cryptic and the Foundry have already parted ways.
2. The secret project might be related to a new game in development that includes ugc. If that is the case, then it probably won't be long before history repeats itself. Maybe that will be good for the Foundry as an evolving tool. But, it won't be good for your Foundry if you're not a fan of that new game. Nobody at STO is in charge of the thing, except the EP. Apparently, our game has to beg for programmers who know how to update it, according to a recent dev interview.
If that's the case, then whatever state your Foundry is in right now will probably be permanent, albeit with minor quality of life improvements. They might add a few things here and there, but expect each big update to break things.
3. The Foundry team isn't going anywhere. But, think about it from an EP and PWE perspective. They'll look at the numbers. They'll look at revenue. They'll look at how the majority of players are playing the game. They'll invest resources accordingly. You probably have a better sense of your community. But, at STO, probably less than 5% of the players love and play Foundry stories. Other use it to farm until they figure out better ways to farm. Of course, others exploit the heck out of it. The percentage of passionate story-tellers compared to general players is probably less than 1% of the game's population. It's probably more like .03%.
So, maybe you'll still have your Foundry devs, if they don't get reassigned to more important jobs.
Bottom line is this: When PWE took over, F2P became the model. If Foundry play is not tied into the revenue stream (or only indirectly keeps 5% of players logging in), then it's incompatible with the F2P model. They invested heavily in it for NW, thinking that UGC would be such a huge part of NW given the history.
If it's not being played, they're going to write it off as a bad investment. That's what STO did, although we have a community manager who tries to compensate for that in various ways.
No offense or insult intended.. I was just trying to be real. IMHO it seems that the foundry is really the best part of this game... that is just my own opinion. I just have a hard time understanding why this company would attach such a great tool to their game and yet tie our hands behind our backs (so to speak) by limiting what we can effectively do with it. Let me see... hmmmm.. exploits. Yep. exploits. I understand that there will always be those players that will try to 'beat the system', it even happened in the pnp versions. But, don't they have a room full of people just thinkin' stuff up? I'm sure they do. Timers, or logic, bosses, rewards, so many things missing from this tool set. As far as what is fun for you? By allowing the author to tag their own creations and having a working search function, the players should be able to find the adventures that are 'fun' for them. I do apologize if I offended you... it was not my intention. It is my hunch that you are the type of player that prefers the PVP arena ... and of course if you don't win, someone must have cheated.
As far as your challenge is concerned... well.. let me put it this way: when I was a younger man, I lived in a city that had a very popular gaming hall. They sold all the books and supplies for all the rpg's on the market. They also rented tables for game play. There was always a game going on there. The most popular game, by far, was DM'ed by a friend of mine. Any character, of any level, was welcome to join in the play. The DM of course had to deal with players that had their super-character and wanted to play in this game. No problem.... the game would begin like this (or something like it): You wake slowly to find yourself hanging in chains from a wall... in some sort of a cell. All of your belonging are gone.. you are covered in blood and you hurt everywhere. [the DM would then ask for their character sheet and begin crossing off stuff with his pencil]. This was the most challenging and fun game most of us had ever been involved with. It was not about the rewards. It was about fun.. and challenge.. and survival. I know it may not sound like fun for today's gamers but trust me, it was.
In my own humble opinion, to limit the tool set AND not give us any rewards to speak of.. is a double whammy. That was my point. No insult intended.
As kirksplat showed already, maybe 1% of foundry players are in it for the story. This is in line with what Cryptic's CEO publicly spoke about (the gdc presentation by him on UGC is out the there, and the video has been directly linked in these types of discussions by posters like kamaliicious on these forums before). Cryptic's CEO pointed out that most ugc is released within a month or two of the tool being available, eg they already have all the ugc they need.
So major improvments to Foundry? Adding all those things people request? I don't see those coming, the dev cost versus $ reward to Cryptic is not there. Lead Producer The Squez already publicly said in an interview linked from the news forum that that is the metric he uses to assign resources to things.
If foundry authors want peoe to appreciate their work, they need to look for a player community that appreciates the type of ugc they want to create. Sorry, but Neverwinter Online is not designed by Cryptic as a RP lovefest, its designed as an action game.
Authors, find somewhere that has a player population looking for the type of story content you want to deliver. NWO is nearing a year from when the public first saw it during betas, its not suddenly going to become a different game with a different playerbase.
Say1o: nwn1 has first person mods, and 2 has "shoulder perched" camera mod.
This is the only reason why there is a Foundry community left at STO. We created Starbase UGC as a hub for what is a very small community of storytellers who are essentially writing missions for an entirely different type of game. We've been a good little community that supports the Foundry in a way that compensates for the lack of dev support.
We created Tavern UGC for NW authors to do the same thing, but it's been nearly impossible recruiting NW authors who want to make something of the site. The domain is paid for the next two years. We need people to do something with it. As you can see, there are no advertisements, which should indicate that we were essentially gifting a sister site to a related Foundry community, but nobody here took notice, it seems.
And very few of us STO authors care about NW, so the site is now dead.
Easily done. Tie it in to the Zen store - let Foundry Authors use Zen assets in UGC and provide a "Zen Assets Seen in this Quest..." linkage:
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
I pitched almost the exactly the same kind of idea for 2 years, before I simply gave up. Our team has been getting better about adding in new ships and mobs. Costumes are another story. Our art team is far removed from our Foundry, so generally any request that involves an artist gets ignored. Right now, one of our devs mentioned that they were looking for "Skunk work" ways of maybe convincing an artist to come in on a weekend for a few hours to throw us a few bones.
Anyway, I like the idea, but just getting a programmer to fix broken maps has been a challenge. Besides, there is probably someone thinking, "If players aren't playing Foundry, then why invest in ways to promote Zen items, especially when we can put those things on the launcher that everyone sees."
Some things you just have to laugh at. :rolleyes:
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to kill her... my knife just accidently plundged into her 71 times. Honest!!