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Double debuff makes PvP DC's unviable
lazuree
Member Posts: 52 Arc User
In addition to this new stat we are also reducing the ability of very defensive builds to sustain themselves indefinitely by introducing Healing Depression in PVP combat. In PvP matches, players will receive a debuff that reduces incoming healing and the effectiveness of Temporary Hit Points. This means that while fights will last longer, players will not be able to survive forever with the right combination of healing and regenerative effects.
Hi, I'm Sephine/Sepia a cleric who has been pvping since July and I have tried my best to fit the role of dc in pvp. This is hard with the 40% righteousness and just in general, dc's always have a target over their head from the enemy team. While I feel like I've made a survivable cleric, I feel like this new patch will make it extremely difficult for any dc to be useful in a competitive pvp setting.
1) reduced healing will negate the need for a dc in pvp, why bring a class which has a constant debuff on it when there's regen and lifesteal has been buffed by dread ring boons
2)reduced healing+righteousness will lead to self healing being impossible for a cleric to live on; we already barely get by vs a cw with the "senti" build stacking regen, deflect, etc
3) resilience only comes with pvp sets which include lifesteal, a waste of a stat for dc's because we do not do enough dmg for it to be significant
I have never had an issue with Righteousness alone, I understand it'd be OP if we just constantly healed ourselves.... but two debuffs is too much
we already had reduced healing from those boons (ie enraged regrowth, elven tranquility) while other classes had normal healing; after this patch it would not even be worthwhile grabbing these boons and instead everyone would grab shadowtouch further reducing healing...
I'm glad the Devs are working on PvP balance, but I really wish PvP DC's didn't end up being collateral damage.
My suggestions:
1) reduce righteousness or do not add that new debuff on all DC's
2)change the GG DC set so the stats have some more regen/power/defense/deflect/ac so that we can be survive
Anyways, I hope the Devs read this... I have 3 DC's so I'm kind of an enthusiast for DCs. If you went through with this patch I'd be greatly saddened by the time I spent into making my PvP DC Sepia as strong as a character as it is.
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I have already invested a lot of time and energy into both my pve and pvp sets. Now I will have to farm a third set as I believe my current pvp set will not be viable.
Then to my dismay I find out we will be receiving a healing debuff during pvp combat. This just makes me very upset. I really hope they find a way to balance it. Because even with a very tanky build, pefects and r10 gear, and skill. Every pvp DC knows that a cw can mean your immenent death.
I also hate the idea that I might be forced into DPSing as a DC just to be able to be considered into pvp.
Anyways, this news is a bit disheartening so hopefully it is not as bad as it seems on paper. We shall see.
In mean time I guess I will be farming my t2 gear (again! thanks old xmog) so I can be ready for this upcomming patch.
Issue with regen is with tanky classes that can stack huge HP and huge regen and can reset fights, regen, return, or last lots of time against multiple opponents...
... while also dealing serious damage.
This is a huge no-no to me: survivability AND DPS, both very good. Should never happen.
Healing Depression will affect however everybody.
So why gimp DCs with Healing Depression? They only have pro healing, they cannot also dish huge damage, so all is fine, good survivability trade off resulting in lack of damage - tanky DCs won't kill anyone.
Why even gimp CWs with Healing Depression either? CWs good DPS, but low survivability, all good, again tradeoff. Why gimp us further by making removing whatever crutches we have: some regen, some life steal, soulforge, a DC to keep us alive.
So it seems a good initiative to tweak the survivability of some troll builds that also dish godly damage... but please do it in a selective way, no need to also affect people that are not "guilty" of being good at both DPS and survivability.
You're funny. There's no protecting someone that is being focused fired by multiple people especially if this healing nerf goes through.
The only ones that come out ahead with these changes are GFs and GWFs.
But they fixed forgemaster's!
Which they broke in the first place!
That's where you'd be wrong. There are plenty of ways.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
But, you begin to ask, why would anyone bother: why spend all that effort to protect the DC when the heals now count for even less, when you could simply leave and join a DC-free match where you won't need to constantly worry about a pointlessly vulnerable team member?
DCs in anything short of "BiS everything" already stack regen like crazy for PvP because self heals are gimped and heals in general are insufficient for PvP spiking, so making our heals even less useful isn't gonna stop everyone continuing to stack regen.
DC doesn't have any other build. The used to be the DPS burst build, but that gets hit by the nerfhammer due to the proposed damager nerf and defense buff from Tenacity.
I don't try to be immortal. I'm just helping my team to stay alive and they help me getting rid off rogues and GWFs. A team focused game style in pvp is viable. You won't die more than others, but yes, sometimes you're on resapwn timer. Who cares, everyone experiences that in pvp.
Now if your concern is that you're being killed because you have a very solo build in 5vs5 pvp, well, who's to blame? :rolleyes:
And if you think lifesteal is useless then i suggest you adapt to your pvp gear and build a more offensive DC, doing some damage (incredible!) or control, and share it with others via linked spirit.
It favours classes with lots of HP anyway (especially if they pop unstoppable all the time).
And they seem to be targeting this by making healing weaker, which is bizarre. TempHP I can understand, but healing?
They're removing a lot of damage and CC, so scaling down heals (from the DC, regen, life steal) to a more reasonable level doesn't seem illegitimate, especially if no one has made real tests on the preview servers.
I bet that no one complaining here has bothered logging in on preview. I have and the pvp queue popped. It's not that terrible, but people love to moan especially when they don't know what they're talking about.
the damage coming at you is now next to nothing now. Your healing is worse but the damage coming at it is maybe half as much
You're wrong, see this post of mine. Clerics are useless currently on the PTR in my opinion. I don't know if regneration/lifesteal is bugged on the PTR and it's supposed to be reduced by 50% also (i asked the devs to confirm this but they haven't yet), but currently both are healing for the full amount. Regeneration right now does more healing than the cleric class can even do. That is broken. A dedicated 'healing' class gets out-healed by a stat on people's gear.
Right now there's absolutely no reason to have a cleric in PvP when any of the DPS classes stacking regen are virtually immortal and do tons of damage and have tons of control (clerics have no damage and no control, and extremely weak healing).
it's not next to nothing... but your response still disregards the fact that in a competitive setting what good is a dc that cannot heal:/
This is my concern as well. I've refrained from commenting in the official feedback thread because I haven't had the chance to actually play matches on Preview, but I seriously question the incentive to play DC in PvP if Healing Depression continues to affect DC heals since we're talking about a major function of an entire character class.
There are some huge fans of DPS DCs on these boards, and it's great that players enjoy all kinds of builds and playstyles, but I have yet to meet a DPS DC who didn't die horribly against strong competition. The BiS ones can usually grab a few kills in the process, but toss in one comparable CW and it's game-over for the poor things. Besides, I can't imagine DPS DCs being much happier about some of these changes than the TRs seem to be; when you have 3 encounters and maybe 1 decently damaging power out of those 3 (Daunting, which requires Divine Glow for maximum punch), losing burst potential is going to make securing kills even more difficult. If that's truly where things go, one would be better off playing CW instead.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
The problem is the change would force people to go into PVP set which kills different build style. It is less fun that way.
The only thing that is well done here is the GF buff everything else are just bs. It makes no sense to give palyer so much extra defensive stats, it just seems like they are too lazy to work on each class's problem so they just decide to fk every one up and make sure you got nerfed.
I found my expectations to be completely founded:/
I have a Perfect Vorpal, 4000 power, and 23 wisdom. I used maxed out healer's lore (+15% healing) and annointed armor... yet the HR could take me down to half hp quite quickly.
shadowtouched effects:
[Combat (Self)] ExPierce deals 145 (250) Necrotic to you with Shadowtouched.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Healing Word gives 510 (1700) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] ExPierce deals 145 (250) Necrotic to you with Shadowtouched.
[Combat (Self)] Your Seeker's Beacon gives 1442 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] ExPierce deals 145 (250) Necrotic to you with Shadowtouched.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Healing Word gives 510 (1700) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] ExPierce deals 145 (250) Necrotic to you with Shadowtouched.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Healing Word gives 408 (1700) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Healing Word gives 408 (1700) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Healing Word gives 408 (1700) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Healing Word gives 408 (1700) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Seeker's Beacon gives 1442 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Healing Word gives 408 (1700) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Healing Word gives 408 (1700) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Seeker's Beacon gives 1442 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Healing Word gives 408 (1700) Hit Points to you.
Shadowtouched now gone...
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Healing Word gives 1020 (1700) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Healing Word gives 1020 (1700) Hit Points to you.
With shadowtouched, I heal for 30% of what the heal should be. The 1700 tick is already reduced to 1020 by righteousness. This is a critical heal as well, with divinity... imagine if it was either w/o divinity or a crit...
I'm curious why it dropped from 500ish to 408ish... if someone could enlighten me that'd be great
On a bright side, it seems repurpose soul and Miracle healer's heals are left intact, but those rare heals do not make up for how much healing is lost.
Papa Smurf
Santa Claus --GF
Gargamel --CW
510 (1700) = Healing Depression only.
408 (1700) = 20% further reduction from the above. Shadowtouched tooltip indicates that this should be 25% less, so the number is a little funky unless I'm missing an explanation.
Bottom line appears to be that Healing Depression is a serious issue for which we will all need to seek professional help.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH