I might be wrong here, but no one really answered the op's question. He's asking why not do a full Need run, instead of a Greed run, so no one can ninja stuff. If everyone selects need, it prevents ninjaing, so why not do Need runs?
I've wondered the same thing as the op. What's the difference between a full need vs greed run? I might be missing something here, but a need run would prevent ninjas, but has the same results as a greed run?
I might be wrong here, but no one really answered the op's question. He's asking why not do a full Need run, instead of a Greed run, so no one can ninja stuff. If everyone selects need, it prevents ninjaing, so why not do Need runs?
I've wondered the same thing as the op. What's the difference between a full need vs greed run? I might be missing something here, but a need run would prevent ninjas, but has the same results as a greed run?
We're talking about for profit runs right?
That is the whole thing.
Greed run = allows ninjaing to happen.
Need run = impossible to ninja anything.
Quite simple really. Now you see why some people like to do greed runs. I prefer not to fall for it.
The whole issue about this boils down to one thing... the word "NEED" Some people may get confused and think...Well the guy does not really NEED the item because he is wearing it already BUT maybe he NEEDS to sell it. Maybe a better way to clarify the meaning behind this little word that throws people off.
No, rolling need to sell in any game, at any time, is the rudest most despicable party behavior you can do.
edit*
when someone does it they get squelched, I will never play with that person again as it shows they care about their own pixels more than fair play and a good time. Such people aren't worth my time anymore. I also warn guildies of their name and @handles so they can squelch.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
That is the whole thing.
Greed run = allows ninjaing to happen.
Need run = impossible to ninja anything.
Quite simple really. Now you see why some people like to do greed runs. I prefer not to fall for it.
You are missing an important component to why people do "greed only runs" - namely that everyone can't choose need on every item - you used to be able to, but the devs made it so you can't choose need on non-class items.
People who adhere to a "greed only" run do so because they want all on the team to have equal chance at any item - even those they can't directly equip.
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hi everyone.
what about the ninja looters ? i just did a karrundux run and someone took everything from the begining till the end, even what we'd "need" .
And the worst is that the others members were his allies , so all what they'v said when i claimed, is "he is lucky" .
From now on i'll record the loot scene but , how can we eliminate this kind of dishonest players ?
I might be wrong here, but no one really answered the op's question. He's asking why not do a full Need run, instead of a Greed run, so no one can ninja stuff. If everyone selects need, it prevents ninjaing, so why not do Need runs?
I've wondered the same thing as the op. What's the difference between a full need vs greed run?
In an evenly distributed party a all need run would be fair.
If you have a party consisting of 1 DC, 1 GWF and 3 CW a "all need" run puts the CWs on a disadvantage.
The GWF and DC will get their class item certainly, but any CW would still only get 1/3 of their class item drops - or have low chance of getting it.
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maerwinMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I might be wrong here, but no one really answered the op's question. He's asking why not do a full Need run, instead of a Greed run, so no one can ninja stuff. If everyone selects need, it prevents ninjaing, so why not do Need runs?
I've wondered the same thing as the op. What's the difference between a full need vs greed run? I might be missing something here, but a need run would prevent ninjas, but has the same results as a greed run?
We're talking about for profit runs right?
Because if there is only 1 rogue (for example), they have 1/6 chance for a rogue item drop
If there are two wizards, they have 1/6 chance for a wizard drop and then 1/2 chance to win it -> 1/12
If there is a ranger, he also has 1/6 chance for a ranger drop... that is worth about 2-3x the price of items the others get.
All greed is fair to everyone in the party, but unfortunately doesn't work when there's someone who breaks their word for a bunch of pixel money
Because many people need on gear to sell and ninja it. It's why running with pugs is always a horrible experience.
True, a lot people are morons. But what I mean is that the whole need/greed-thing isn't hard to understand at all. The only difficult thing for some is to care, and to come up with silly excuses to justify why they need on something they don't need.
I might be wrong here, but no one really answered the op's question. He's asking why not do a full Need run, instead of a Greed run, so no one can ninja stuff. If everyone selects need, it prevents ninjaing, so why not do Need runs?
I think someone already replied to this, but I thought I saw people agreeing with you after words as well.
There is no longer the option to need on items you can't equip. This was removed because people are greedy f#$%'s and were needing everything and jacking loot from people with the appropriate class.
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rlrobrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Greed only is good for parties with more than one of the same class. People think that greed only is somehow more fair to everyone, but it only makes a difference if there are two or more of the same class in one party. Since everyone likes to stack CW/GWF to fast clear access, that's why premade groups insist on greed only. And everyone else follows along without understanding why.
Not only this: I have 6 level 60 characters and thus I can play any class (except the HR, for the moment). Often I play a DC or a GF because they are the most demanded classes, however, DC and GF gear are the least valuable. If the run is need instead of greed, I wouldn't accept to play a DC or GF, simply because I could make more money playing a CW or TR.
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gillman58Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited January 2014
Worth repeating, If you NEED it, need it. If anyone in the group is upset with you doing that its obvious what their problem is.
They wanted it. They don't know what "need" means.
They are playing Dad's computer when they should be getting ready for school.
I am amazed how this always has so much of a debate - DCUO had the same system and i never saw this level of contorversy over loot (but DCUO did not have an AD concept, but you could refine epic gear for crafting items)
I know people are saying in a group of 3 cws they have less chance than the dc at an item so there should be a greed only to make it fair, but in a need situation, they get a shot at an item that will be worth more than an item that drops for the dc. I still think it is 1 in 5 chance because one of the 5 players will get it, i know mathematically, it is slightly different, but seriously it is not a huge difference. you have a random chance that the item drops for your class, it is still random while slightly less random... random is random.
The thing is i think the system has not matured and people are still so ad starved they are overly greedy. I have been burned by plenty of accidents in greed only runs, also, I have been there as the one class that needs an item, actually needs it and watched someone beat me on the greed only roll - 3 runs in a row with the same group, the same item dropped each time and I never got it one time... in a need run, i would have needed the first time and greeded or passed on the second and 3rd run. Again in DCUO it was understood (discussed and agreed but a fairly common practice to say need-pass) once you won a need roll, you would pass on epics until everyone in the group got one for that run/runs. I do not see that here, greed runs are greed greed greed and you see the same person walk away with most the loot while others get nothing because the RND. I hear people say we greed all to be fair, but in practice it looks like they greed all to be greedy.
I have no issue with folks talking about it before the group forms, but hate when i get in a instance and 3 people say 'greed only' and get all upset when you do not want to participate. I have heard the 'go with the majority' speech from groups where 4 of them are in the same guild, do a greed roll and follow the win with a 'it will be in the guild bank' to the other players.
I have played both methods and still feel greed only is only for the greedy who want a shot at loot that would fall to another class. it you want a shot at the expensive CW loot, run a CW. May not be a popular opinion, but i imaging when everyone has a few maxed toons, they will be running these quests and feeding the less geared. If you are going to sell something, you should never need. never. however, some of us do not have a planned build and done all the number crunching. It may not be obvious that certain items are needed or not, or perhaps an item is going to be good situational. i swap gear and my powers based on what is coming up, so if i do not immediately equip an item, it does not mean I do not need it.
if people did a greed all run and folks would pass after they won the first epic, till everyone got one, i would have not issue. That would be more fair to me.
No, rolling need to sell in any game, at any time, is the rudest most despicable party behavior you can do.
edit*
when someone does it they get squelched, I will never play with that person again as it shows they care about their own pixels more than fair play and a good time. Such people aren't worth my time anymore. I also warn guildies of their name and @handles so they can squelch.
Well to each their own. I know when I join a pug instance on Dungeon Delve event everyone who gets a drop for their class rolls need on it regardless if its an upgrade or not. You will be @squelching about 95% of people if you pug. Why you blacklist people and spread the word that they are thieves if they roll need (a fair mechanic in the game ) is beyond me. Someone was saying that everyone could need on a item even if it was not their class at one time, why do you think they changed that?.... basically is that not the same as a "all greed run"?
I will continue to loot under need rolls and the game allows it. You are ONLINE in a computer game, Do you really expect everyone to be honest and trustworthy and agree to greed only rules in a pug? That is CRAZY. In my opinion screw the loot, let the luck of the drop decide who gets what... and move on complete the dungeon and have fun. Why is pixel GREED so strong in online games I dont get it? You have the same chance of getting loot that I do.
What incentive to people have after they are geared up to do dungeons? Are they supposed to stay out of them because they do not need anything? They worked for the party too...if they win a drop and they want to sell it in AH...by all means...its a free game to do so.
Rolling need on everything is the closest thing will get to a fair loot sharing system, unless OMG you have REALLY bad luck and something drops that you cannot roll on... *cry*
Again this is just my opinion and seems to be the way things roll ingame. When people in a pug ask everyone to "greed only" then I know something is fishy because chances are there is a ninja in the group licking his chops after everyone hits greed. I usually just leave the party, not worth the time to fight over loot like that...sometimes i'll stay just to see if I was right, and usually I am.
I roll need and dont look back, I just move on to work towards the next boss so we can ALL roll again. If you stop all the sudden in a group, whine about it, stop contributing to the team moving forward, start kicking players, ignoring them / blacklisting them and griefing them, then that is your issue not mine. Kinda would remind me of a 5 year old having a fit because he didnt get that chocolate bar from the store.
Now if there was an actual setting for joining a dungeon que that was greed only, I would probably give it a shot. but they must disable the need option completely. On second thought that is excatly what they should do is add that feature..."Greed only Que" seperate from regular que. I bet you would be waiting alot longer for a group though...(well ya never know)
What if there was a drop (like a artifact) that allowed everyone to roll? Should you all roll greed on it too? Why not everyone roll need on it? What is the difference? Do you think that the game detects who can actually use it and fixes the rolls or something? Is there a trust issue goin on?
NOTHING ingame is more important then having fun and being entertained! NOTHING! I say *BLECH* to need or greed drama! Need em ALL and let god sort em out!
After playing WoW for like 5 years or whatever it was you start to catch on to things regarding need/greed. At first I used to get upset when people rolled need on things they do not need escpecially in Raids. Then I just gave up and realized, it is just a game and who cares as long as I am being entertained. Takes a while to change your thought process on that issue...but eventually it does. Then you realize that you cannot control what people do, all you can do is control what you do.
Good luck! and again...this is just my opinion, dont be mad.
Thanks to those who clarified the need vs. greed runs. I think the above posts are arguing about two completely different things. In a "normal" run where no prior rules are established, a need for your class is perfectly fine. In a profit run where everyone has agreed to greed, then a need would be ninjaing.
Anyway, I agree with the poster who mentioned that most people in this game are so ad starved that they would "accidentally" need an item on a greed only run.
No, rolling need to sell in any game, at any time, is the rudest most despicable party behavior you can do.
edit*
when someone does it they get squelched, I will never play with that person again as it shows they care about their own pixels more than fair play and a good time. Such people aren't worth my time anymore. I also warn guildies of their name and @handles so they can squelch.
How is them rolling need so they can sell the item any different from you wanting to get it through greed to sell?
I generally need if I can, greed if I can't.
Of course, I am guildless and only group with whoever the queue puts me with, so it's pretty much a free-for-all anyway.
If I were to join a group for a run that was specified as being greed only then I would go greed only, but count on me having my chat options set to tell me who chose what loot mode.
I'm not hard to get along with, really. I just can't stand liars.
I don't care what dropped. You aren't special, contrary to what your mother may have told you. If the group agreed on greed only then don't hit need on anything. It isn't that hard.
Oh, that sword that you have been looking for dropped? So what? If you didn't want to do a greed only run then you could have waited for another group.
I fully support the devs allowing for the group leader to set a greed only loot option, but as with all loot modes, I only support it if the leader can not later change the loot mode without the rest of the party receiving clear notification or even requiring at least majority consent.
By the time someone decides to cheat the group on some loot roll, they may well have gotten the one and only thing that they cared about and would end up quitting, anyway, so kicking them is hardly a solution.
After the wizard already got the ranger's armor and the rogue's boots, it's not suddenly okay for them to decide to hit need on the orb because the other players are only being greedy by wanting it to sell.
They cold have hit need but decided to abide by the rules agreed upon in advance. It's not unreasonable to expect everyone else to do the same.
I use the highest available option, mostly since most stuff is pure vendor material and the only useful stuff (shards, enchantments) is something everyone can and will need anyways.
For purple stuff, I don't expect PUGs to ever greed so I don't either, and as it is common behavior i have no issues with that. If you drop something for your class, keep it, I don't care and 5k rAD won't change my life. If I'm running a dungeon I'm after seals or T2 stuff I actually need, everything else is a bonus.
What many people always seem to forget about is that you can trade items at the end of the dungeon. If you noticed that some one else got something you could actually use for your character why not ask them to trade. This works even on full greed runs. Unfortunately to often everyone departs as soon as they have looted the chest or killed the final boss.
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ladymythosMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 637Bounty Hunter
edited January 2014
Why do we have to wait until the end of the dungeon before trading? If someone get something I need, I usually ask right there and then. And 90% of the time, I get it free of charge - and I haven't been in a guild in years. It's called common decency. The idea is simply that you might not get something in return from me now, but when you are the one asking for something from me, I'll hand it to you free of charge. Expand that into the rest of the community, and I don't see the problem with a Need/Greed even in PUGs.
Too long, didn't read: A stranger is a friend you haven't met. Think about that for a bit.
I have come to the conclusion that "greed runs" are BS. Everyone has a chance that something will drop for their class and they can need on it. And I would rather compete in a "need" with someone of my same class then even hope that in a greed run everyone would be honest and not ninja. And yes if something for my class drops that I already have I would need on it. it's the same as a greed run and greeding on something your class cant use....you are gunna sell it. We all "NEED" AD.
No more greed runs.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2014
I'm surprised so many people have such bad experiences. I've never had a problem with people doing greed on epics, need on whatever else runs and that seems to be the default behaviour even when I pug. Admittedly I never pug via queue but via the /lfg channel.
The only issue I see with need or greed is that only certain items (epic loot) for certain classes seem to drop off the bosses. Am I correct?..If so that is kind of an issue for alot of reasons and should be changed so each boss has an equal chance at dropping an item of each class.
I think this is why people like to run greed runs because they know this. 6 classes should mean each boss has a 16.6% chance to drop an item of each class. Thus no more greed runs needed am I right?
Otherwise people just start figuring out what loot tables are on the bosses and they just farm the heck out the place over and over...which is excatly what is happening.
The system is fine. Just RNG, if you guys haven't accepted RNG yet; you are on the wrong boat and should move away from F2P. Greed runs just open the possibility to be ninja'd (even in a static group).
Comments
I've wondered the same thing as the op. What's the difference between a full need vs greed run? I might be missing something here, but a need run would prevent ninjas, but has the same results as a greed run?
We're talking about for profit runs right?
That is the whole thing.
Greed run = allows ninjaing to happen.
Need run = impossible to ninja anything.
Quite simple really. Now you see why some people like to do greed runs. I prefer not to fall for it.
No, rolling need to sell in any game, at any time, is the rudest most despicable party behavior you can do.
edit*
when someone does it they get squelched, I will never play with that person again as it shows they care about their own pixels more than fair play and a good time. Such people aren't worth my time anymore. I also warn guildies of their name and @handles so they can squelch.
You are missing an important component to why people do "greed only runs" - namely that everyone can't choose need on every item - you used to be able to, but the devs made it so you can't choose need on non-class items.
People who adhere to a "greed only" run do so because they want all on the team to have equal chance at any item - even those they can't directly equip.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
what about the ninja looters ? i just did a karrundux run and someone took everything from the begining till the end, even what we'd "need" .
And the worst is that the others members were his allies , so all what they'v said when i claimed, is "he is lucky" .
From now on i'll record the loot scene but , how can we eliminate this kind of dishonest players ?
+1
This option would be great! We need that!
In an evenly distributed party a all need run would be fair.
If you have a party consisting of 1 DC, 1 GWF and 3 CW a "all need" run puts the CWs on a disadvantage.
The GWF and DC will get their class item certainly, but any CW would still only get 1/3 of their class item drops - or have low chance of getting it.
If there are two wizards, they have 1/6 chance for a wizard drop and then 1/2 chance to win it -> 1/12
If there is a ranger, he also has 1/6 chance for a ranger drop... that is worth about 2-3x the price of items the others get.
All greed is fair to everyone in the party, but unfortunately doesn't work when there's someone who breaks their word for a bunch of pixel money
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Would ease the pain a lot, and people would only need if they really need it.
There is no longer the option to need on items you can't equip. This was removed because people are greedy f#$%'s and were needing everything and jacking loot from people with the appropriate class.
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Not only this: I have 6 level 60 characters and thus I can play any class (except the HR, for the moment). Often I play a DC or a GF because they are the most demanded classes, however, DC and GF gear are the least valuable. If the run is need instead of greed, I wouldn't accept to play a DC or GF, simply because I could make more money playing a CW or TR.
They wanted it. They don't know what "need" means.
They are playing Dad's computer when they should be getting ready for school.
I know people are saying in a group of 3 cws they have less chance than the dc at an item so there should be a greed only to make it fair, but in a need situation, they get a shot at an item that will be worth more than an item that drops for the dc. I still think it is 1 in 5 chance because one of the 5 players will get it, i know mathematically, it is slightly different, but seriously it is not a huge difference. you have a random chance that the item drops for your class, it is still random while slightly less random... random is random.
The thing is i think the system has not matured and people are still so ad starved they are overly greedy. I have been burned by plenty of accidents in greed only runs, also, I have been there as the one class that needs an item, actually needs it and watched someone beat me on the greed only roll - 3 runs in a row with the same group, the same item dropped each time and I never got it one time... in a need run, i would have needed the first time and greeded or passed on the second and 3rd run. Again in DCUO it was understood (discussed and agreed but a fairly common practice to say need-pass) once you won a need roll, you would pass on epics until everyone in the group got one for that run/runs. I do not see that here, greed runs are greed greed greed and you see the same person walk away with most the loot while others get nothing because the RND. I hear people say we greed all to be fair, but in practice it looks like they greed all to be greedy.
I have no issue with folks talking about it before the group forms, but hate when i get in a instance and 3 people say 'greed only' and get all upset when you do not want to participate. I have heard the 'go with the majority' speech from groups where 4 of them are in the same guild, do a greed roll and follow the win with a 'it will be in the guild bank' to the other players.
I have played both methods and still feel greed only is only for the greedy who want a shot at loot that would fall to another class. it you want a shot at the expensive CW loot, run a CW. May not be a popular opinion, but i imaging when everyone has a few maxed toons, they will be running these quests and feeding the less geared. If you are going to sell something, you should never need. never. however, some of us do not have a planned build and done all the number crunching. It may not be obvious that certain items are needed or not, or perhaps an item is going to be good situational. i swap gear and my powers based on what is coming up, so if i do not immediately equip an item, it does not mean I do not need it.
if people did a greed all run and folks would pass after they won the first epic, till everyone got one, i would have not issue. That would be more fair to me.
Well to each their own. I know when I join a pug instance on Dungeon Delve event everyone who gets a drop for their class rolls need on it regardless if its an upgrade or not. You will be @squelching about 95% of people if you pug. Why you blacklist people and spread the word that they are thieves if they roll need (a fair mechanic in the game ) is beyond me. Someone was saying that everyone could need on a item even if it was not their class at one time, why do you think they changed that?.... basically is that not the same as a "all greed run"?
I will continue to loot under need rolls and the game allows it. You are ONLINE in a computer game, Do you really expect everyone to be honest and trustworthy and agree to greed only rules in a pug? That is CRAZY. In my opinion screw the loot, let the luck of the drop decide who gets what... and move on complete the dungeon and have fun. Why is pixel GREED so strong in online games I dont get it? You have the same chance of getting loot that I do.
What incentive to people have after they are geared up to do dungeons? Are they supposed to stay out of them because they do not need anything? They worked for the party too...if they win a drop and they want to sell it in AH...by all means...its a free game to do so.
Rolling need on everything is the closest thing will get to a fair loot sharing system, unless OMG you have REALLY bad luck and something drops that you cannot roll on... *cry*
Again this is just my opinion and seems to be the way things roll ingame. When people in a pug ask everyone to "greed only" then I know something is fishy because chances are there is a ninja in the group licking his chops after everyone hits greed. I usually just leave the party, not worth the time to fight over loot like that...sometimes i'll stay just to see if I was right, and usually I am.
I roll need and dont look back, I just move on to work towards the next boss so we can ALL roll again. If you stop all the sudden in a group, whine about it, stop contributing to the team moving forward, start kicking players, ignoring them / blacklisting them and griefing them, then that is your issue not mine. Kinda would remind me of a 5 year old having a fit because he didnt get that chocolate bar from the store.
Now if there was an actual setting for joining a dungeon que that was greed only, I would probably give it a shot. but they must disable the need option completely. On second thought that is excatly what they should do is add that feature..."Greed only Que" seperate from regular que. I bet you would be waiting alot longer for a group though...(well ya never know)
What if there was a drop (like a artifact) that allowed everyone to roll? Should you all roll greed on it too? Why not everyone roll need on it? What is the difference? Do you think that the game detects who can actually use it and fixes the rolls or something? Is there a trust issue goin on?
NOTHING ingame is more important then having fun and being entertained! NOTHING! I say *BLECH* to need or greed drama! Need em ALL and let god sort em out!
After playing WoW for like 5 years or whatever it was you start to catch on to things regarding need/greed. At first I used to get upset when people rolled need on things they do not need escpecially in Raids. Then I just gave up and realized, it is just a game and who cares as long as I am being entertained. Takes a while to change your thought process on that issue...but eventually it does. Then you realize that you cannot control what people do, all you can do is control what you do.
Good luck!
Anyway, I agree with the poster who mentioned that most people in this game are so ad starved that they would "accidentally" need an item on a greed only run.
How is them rolling need so they can sell the item any different from you wanting to get it through greed to sell?
Because if everyone is greeding, when someone actually needs a drop for use on their character they can hit need.
VERY good point!
Of course, I am guildless and only group with whoever the queue puts me with, so it's pretty much a free-for-all anyway.
If I were to join a group for a run that was specified as being greed only then I would go greed only, but count on me having my chat options set to tell me who chose what loot mode.
I'm not hard to get along with, really. I just can't stand liars.
I don't care what dropped. You aren't special, contrary to what your mother may have told you. If the group agreed on greed only then don't hit need on anything. It isn't that hard.
Oh, that sword that you have been looking for dropped? So what? If you didn't want to do a greed only run then you could have waited for another group.
I fully support the devs allowing for the group leader to set a greed only loot option, but as with all loot modes, I only support it if the leader can not later change the loot mode without the rest of the party receiving clear notification or even requiring at least majority consent.
By the time someone decides to cheat the group on some loot roll, they may well have gotten the one and only thing that they cared about and would end up quitting, anyway, so kicking them is hardly a solution.
Not really.
After the wizard already got the ranger's armor and the rogue's boots, it's not suddenly okay for them to decide to hit need on the orb because the other players are only being greedy by wanting it to sell.
They cold have hit need but decided to abide by the rules agreed upon in advance. It's not unreasonable to expect everyone else to do the same.
For purple stuff, I don't expect PUGs to ever greed so I don't either, and as it is common behavior i have no issues with that. If you drop something for your class, keep it, I don't care and 5k rAD won't change my life. If I'm running a dungeon I'm after seals or T2 stuff I actually need, everything else is a bonus.
Too long, didn't read: A stranger is a friend you haven't met. Think about that for a bit.
I have come to the conclusion that "greed runs" are BS. Everyone has a chance that something will drop for their class and they can need on it. And I would rather compete in a "need" with someone of my same class then even hope that in a greed run everyone would be honest and not ninja. And yes if something for my class drops that I already have I would need on it. it's the same as a greed run and greeding on something your class cant use....you are gunna sell it. We all "NEED" AD.
No more greed runs.
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I think this is why people like to run greed runs because they know this. 6 classes should mean each boss has a 16.6% chance to drop an item of each class. Thus no more greed runs needed am I right?
Otherwise people just start figuring out what loot tables are on the bosses and they just farm the heck out the place over and over...which is excatly what is happening.
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Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas