you pop smoke bomb i go itc and spam is on u how is that decent replacement.
Well IDK man, by using Smoke Bomb at the right time? I could have sworn at least that much would have been obvious since we're talking about a theoretical WK perma. Anyway, ITC is indeed superior. But if you're a WK, you don't have ITC, so SB is your next best bet. Best not to be picky and play with what you have is what I like to say.
^Considering that rogues have the worst CC in the game ITC is the best thing they have going for them.
I don't think that's true. Rogues have an assortment of dazes and stuns, and even a wide AoE daze/slow Smokebomb, which is one of the best CC in the game when used tactically.
I think the reason why we feel rogues have bad CCs, is that most CCs are to be used up close and personal to take advantage of. Like, you can stun someone with an Impact Shot, but to land something else within the duration, you have to be close... since obviously you're not going to walk 20~30feet afterwards and hope you can land a guaranteed LB on him. Same with Dazing Strike -- difficult to land.
When your whole build is about throwing knives from a range, you don't have any gap-closer to cut the distance short. Most MI build choices would use ITC, SS or B&S, and have 1 slot for the main attack, usually LB or Impact Shot. It's quite obvious why people don't see much worth in Smokebomb with this setup as well. Smokebomb requires a tactical placement smack in the middle of enemy formation, and it require to be used in stealth for maximum effect. However, when you don't have any sudden gap-closers to utilize, you have to just walk in the middle of 4~5 enemies and hope you aren't noticed before you deploy smoke. If there's one thing WK can do better than a MI build, that would be making use of CCs given to rogues. Heck, the main showcase power Vengeance's Pursuit, is by itself a gap-closer stun.
What I think, is that the "rogues have poor CCs" bit, is actually a conscious choice from us rogues. We gave up on all the CC powers willingly, to fight in some other manner that does not require CCs. I don't think rogues have bad CCs.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
This is a bit off topic, and I might make a thread about things like this later tonight. But it seems that itc is a crutch for most rogues. Almost as if people would prefer to get rid of stealth before they ever thought of losing itc. Should that one ability be so paramount to a class?
Very, very frankly speaking, I do think ITC will probably be up for redesign when the developers have time.
For a power that grants total immunity from everything (a "God-mode" if you will), the recharge time is way too short. Rogues with high recharge values can bring down the cooldown from default 18secs to under 15secs, and considering ITC is itself 5 secs in duration, it means basically every 10 seconds you are immune.
Effectively, a rogue is in ITC mode when he is visible, and he is in stealth when ITC is in cooldown. This is a prime mechanic for current MI based builds and something very fun for the user, but in terms of balance, although being a rogue myself (and I've also used it in the past), with good conscience I really cannot say this does not cause a problem in balance.
Everyone hates GWFs since the Unstoppable mechanic is like, bullshi*, in the frequency it allows them to go into Unstoppable, almost back-to-back. But to other classes, they'll probably feel the same way about ITC and us rogues. People boast that they can hold a node forever against 2~3 people and still survive -- but I think the way that is possible, is actually a tell-tale sign that something's not right. Empirically speaking, when you are outnumbered by 2~3 people, being pushed into a corner and getting KOd, that's what should be normal in PvP. What GWFs and ITC rogues are doing, frankly, is abnormal in my opinion.
I think we have it coming *shudders*.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I don't think that's true. Rogues have an assortment of dazes and stuns, and even a wide AoE daze/slow Smokebomb, which is one of the best CC in the game when used tactically.
All of which are garbage when compared to the CC abilities of every other class and SB is the weakest of the AoE CC effects.
Here's a clip of a 1vs1 vs. a Great Weapon Fighter. clearly a bit higher gear than mine (judging by how he survives a 3vs1 gank for a bit of a time). I was holding my own, clearly on the advantage and nearing a kill, but the fight lasted a bit too long and my teammates interfered.
This is the technique I dubbed, "Rope-a-Dope" Its basically using the WK's mobility to maximum, the "Rolling Slash" technique particularly useful since 5 points into "Determined Pursuit" will apply a slow to VP -- so with the Rolling Slash, you slow the GWF, and at the same time move out of the way. The key is to engage with VP, and then use the Rolling Slash to move to the opposite direction the GWF is facing.
The basics are simple but very difficult: You try to approach and land smokebombs, and get free hits in while Unstoppable is down. If it is up, disengage and buy time. Repeat the process as much as possible until Action Rush grants you enough AP to use Courage Breaker. Engage in CB and go all-out.. and then break away. Alternately, activating Bloodbath while Unstoppable is up is also very good. As a matter of fact, even better in some cases.
Admittedly, it takes way longer time than the standard stealth/knife-throwing/impact shot builds. Also, zero error tolerance -- meticulous planning and execution required. Also, a standard MI build with ITC would have actually held that node. You can't do that with a WK build. It's not meant for that. Frankly speaking, the build itself is not for a "killing machine" enthusiasts. Like mentioned countless times, the WK PvP build has a different role. Its team support and harassment, not back-door node holding or outright killing people in 1v1.
Another problem, is that it requires a huge space to maneuver in. A much narrower terrain, and then it becomes impossible. Ranged knocks be damned.
However, considering the fact that my gear/stats are for team support, it would be safe to assume that the fight would have ended to my favor a lot more quickly. For instance, what if I had perfect Vorpal instead of my current perfect Plaguefire? What if my armor-penetration enchantments were not all blue and were at least rank 7~8? What if my HP was not mere 23k?
Ofcourse, the GWF I've faced didn't seem to be top of the line. He was way too conservative with the use of sprint, so one may argue that I didn't face a real top-end GWF. But then again, I'm not a top-end rogue with a top-end gear either. The conditions started with a slight HP disadvantage to me. I've also entered the fight in a really bad manner, a mistake straight-out. Fortunately, high deflection saved my bottom.
The important thing is this: Its possible. It depends on your wits, and practice.
All of which are garbage when compared to the CC abilities of every other class and SB is the weakest of the AoE CC effects.
That's a bit extreme statement, trap.
Imagine a CW that has, and can pop in and out of stealth at will. If our CCs are to be on exact same grounds as others, that's undoubtably and simply gamebreakingly OP. Hence, there's a natural penalty of shorter duration, and melee-execution requirement. The majority MI builds have trouble mostly in landing those CCs, while WK builds have less... and I certainly can say it won't feel like garbage to those who have been on its receiving end.
Also, not to repeat myself, Smokebomb is simply as weak as the person using it. Its all about timing, and not just dumping it blindly. Its just a matter of how experienced you are with it, nothing more, nothing less.
We'll never be able to have as strong CCs as those other classes, but frankly, what we have is more than enough -- if you can use it well.
(ps) On that grounds, I've said it before and I'll say it again, fighter-class knock-prones that have an AoE range.. that's just BS. It should have as much strict requirements in melee range as any power, or, at least for GWFs. I can understand the slowpoke GFs needing ranged prones, but a GWF already one of the fastest in movement, just swinging at any general direction and knocking someone down from ranged... that's just BS.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
OT: Np bro. I highlighted the part where you said "If I had a good pvp equipment" etc. Anyway, the meaning of what I said is that you can be sure of something only when there are no ifs or buts (that's a flipper --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu1bRYpcDgs ... In italian we call it "flipper" but maybe in english it's "pinball"
I'm a newbie there, I'd like to know whether it is possible or not to have a perma stealth build WK. Do I have to put some points in INT or can I reach the right amount of recovery just through the equipment? Is it possible with a Drow (as of now I'm 15 with 11 INT)?
I try to take a logical view in arguments like this, so I shall take a logical view in this one. Hopefully, I'm not taking a dumpster-dive into a mangled mess.
Question: Why do we play this game?
Answer: To have entertainment and social interaction in the form of a video game (aka to have fun). At least, that should be the motivation.
Question: Is the optimal way to play the only way worth playing?
Answer: No, it is not. However, the more competitive you get, the more optimally you should spec.
With these thoughts in mind, I argue that playing a WK in PvP is fine. Now, before I present my case, I will admit that MI is better for PvP than WK (at least for the current meta). The MI, to me, is more flexible and survivable than the WK, and in the current health/regen/survive meta, that by itself would make the MI better. However, this does not make the WK poor to the point where it would be an offense to the community to post positive feedback on the WK.
I think playing a WK would be pretty fun and different. I have two MI TRs right now (PvE and PvP) and I wanted to try the new path simply because I thought it would be fun. I made a TR a few days ago and am currently leveling her. Now, I am in a great guild, though it isn't huge or incredibly competitive, so trying to make a top-end TR would only suit my purposes to a point. Therefore, I have no need to make the best TR. I can still have fun in pug PvP without being able to 1v5 the whole team on their point, and I can still be effective.
Here's the main question: is the WK viable enough to use in PvP? I don't see why not. Sure, the video in the OP was not demonstrative of potential for organized premades vs. premades, but I can see the WK being viable. For example, kweassa has been trying (diligently) to find ways that would make the WK competitive with the MI. Instead of just letting the WK fall into complete obscurity, kweassa has continued to look for new techniques and builds. Sure, while it was on the Preview, other players (like yourselves, I'm sure) tested it and were not impressed, but that doesn't merit banning the posting of WK posts on the forums.
What are the differences between a WK and MI? In reality, the only differences people seem to care about are ITC vs. VP and Shocking vs. HK. Let's not forget that Disheartening Strike is actually a nice at-will, and Gloaming is good for certain builds, so I consider them almost equal for PvP. I will discuss each case below.
ITC vs. VP
ITC is superior, in my opinion. Sure, I bet we could almost all agree on that. However, VP does have its own unique perks. The loss in survivability in PvP is pretty large without ITC, but not unlivable for non-premade matches. With VP, the enemy will not get away. With VP, you can teleport to someone and queue an ability to possibly do a double hit almost instantly. I would imagine that VP and Dazing followed by SS would be pretty cool and fun to use. The problem with this is how it fares in organized premades vs. premades. It is far less useful in the current meta for the TR, where backcapping and being invisible is the thing. Why would I want to teleport to my enemy when I'm supposed to be hiding and hitting hard at the same time? Plus, if I do get caught out, I still have ITC to give me time to SS into stealth again. So, ITC is better. However, this doesn't make VP bad. So, why would I tell someone who is testing all sorts of techniques on it to not post anything? That's called a blackout, a shutout, of experimentation, and that is not what a community should do.
Shocking vs. HK
Shocking is superior for obvious reasons. It hits like a truck, goes through defenses, doesn't miss, is ranged (sort of) and can annihilate an opponent at almost any time. HK is a prone with far less damage and some stealth utility on the side if feated. Now, it is pretty clear to me why Shocking is way better, but that doesn't make HK bad. In fact, though I use it, I do not like Shocking. When I use it, I feel like I'm just hitting the I-win button, since it's so strong. So, I typically opt for Whirlwind, despite the fact it isn't as powerful. It still hits very hard, can be hard to dodge (hard to predict in a fast-paced battle) and is AoE, so it can hit multiple opponents. HK, while not as executioner-like, has a lot of utility, like a prone and steath refill. So, why would I suggest anyone coming to the forums (not just high-end players, but those 'casuals' without the same knowledge) to not try the WK?
At-wills
Both are nice. DS has a strong DoT and is ranged. Gloaming can hit pretty hard and, if feated, can really restore a lot of stealth for permas.
Passives
I don't see a lot of discussion on the passives, mainly since these don't make as big a difference as the above. So, no point to blackout WK here.
ITC is better, Shocking is better. VP is nifty, HK has utility. At-wills and passives are simply up for preference. So, the only real contention here is between two skills. Or so it should be. Instead, this is not what the current debate on the thread is about. kweassa showed a video of a rotation that the community (not the whole, but you understand what I mean) did not support. That is fine. Make constructive criticisms, point out flaws, and explain the position of the WK. I highly encourage that. However, saying the WK is essentially useless and not worth playing in PvP and therefore not worth writing anything about for the whole community of players in Neverwinter Online is wrong. I am not a high-end player, yet I visit the forums. I still post. I would love to see more on the WK, even if it isn't the best, because I don't need the best to enjoy the game and still be effective. If kweassa made a thread titled, "WK build that is the best for PvP" then I might have a qualm or two about that, but this is not the case. I want to play a WK because it's different, and I would like to see information regarding the WK on the forums to help me understand the path better.
Of course, MI is optimal. I would know; I have a PvP MI (probably not as geared as everyone here, but not everyone in the game gears their toons to the max). But if the only big difference between MI and WK is two abilities, why hail one and discard the other? The rotation in the video may not the best for a PvP WK. No one knows what it is yet because there hasn't been enough testing on it. Because it's considered bad. So no one tests for it. Because it's bad. It's sort of like a cycle. If someone playing NW wants to play a WK (casually, since the majority of players are not high-end/competitive) there should be guides and information for them to read. Also, there should be more testing to find out what the best rotation is for the WK, since this may not necessarily be it.
Let me end with a quote (because I like quotes and quotes are awesome):
"The only certain barrier to the truth is the assumption you already have it."
So, I like writing long posts. Also, I am just waiting to see someone post "I disagree with everything Ping said". If I see that, I might actually go dumpster-diving. Who can argue that Shocking isn't better than HK?
Feel free to discuss or rebuttal what I posted. I will be waiting, and I will be reasonable.
Respect. I've just begun to play and I decided I like the WK. I don't give a **** if MI is stronger or whatsoever. I just think it is going to be a pretty funny class and therefore I decided to give it a try. Kwaessa is the only one who's trying to really understand all pros and cons of this path and I can't actually understand why so many people criticize him. If you choose the easiest and strongest class or path in every game you play... Bro, you're doing it wrong!
I d like to make a point that actually helps people (without saying that you are not dedicated or closed-minded) since we are comparing two tr
Lets say that the same setting is for both teams in pvp a tr, a twf, def and 2 other(im not mentioning everything because to write a full tactics guide is not what i hope for) , in the end what matters is who caps the center, right? (don't argue about that , just try to see the point made)
So... the two opposing fighters(def,twf) the tank and the damage dealer tactically should take firstly the opposing damage dealer, correct ?
now , if they are incapacitated for a moderate amount of time then , its all over
there's where wk comes into plot . if one uses vp and smoke bomb while stealthed , (remember the other rogue is still running to get to the point) , ur team wins , not to mention that spamming -5% to damage , stacking up to a total -15% (FROM A DISTANCE!!!) is not to be trifled with, same goes for HK vs SE and if I might add the name (hatefull knives) is very thought of (just ask a defender what he hates most in the beginning of the battle when he has entrenched himself - fully healthed. SE or HK? )
vp also can get you near an ally , or is everybody too distracted by thinking about damage dealing
Well i guess i too believe that the video was one of a kind and it is not the rule in this situation. however i think that when playing with good players wk can turn the tide easily .
NO he cant 1 vs 1 anyone, but there is no 1vs1 setting in pvp.There is always 5v5 .... unless i missed something
I also have a mi and i enjoy playing him in the dungeons.I think he must be OP too because i deal more than half the damage cw deal
NO he cant 1 vs 1 anyone, but there is no 1vs1 setting in pvp.There is always 5v5 .... unless i missed something
Er.. actually I can.
I think about now would be safe to assume that any GWF a MI TR can take down, I can do so with WK as well. The WK build I bring into light is still in the state of evolvement, and my latest incarnation makes extensive use of VP stuns and Dazing strike.
Therefore, any GWF that is "invincible" in 1vs1 scenarios, which even the perma/semi-perma/ITC-rotation MI builds cannot take down -- those I cannot take down as well. Frickin' near impossible. But any GWF that is one notch below it, whether in gear, or in skill, or both, now I can take them down with a WK build, and quite reliably.
...
The "team build" aspect, IMO, would probably have to do more with the general concept of PvP the TR player has, rather than a true "WK vs. MI" comparison. MI builds IMO can just as easily build for team support, and if I may venture an opinion, its usually the versatility and ease of running MI builds which usually tend to make TR players too focused on oneself, rather than the whole team. If the TR player thinks its more important for the team to generally ignore the combat around him and go for back-nodes, then he uses the (currently) popular power selection.
If he thinks its more important for him to stay and assist in major battles at mid, then he may use something different. I don't think there's a "correct answer" here, so to speak. PvP is afterall, dynamic.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I agree with u in most ,its just that , I was talking with two teams in mind in which the players were of the same skill and the only difference was in the path the rogue had chosen , thats all . Plus im not talking aboutpre 60 lvl . And yes , u might be a fantastic player (I'm not being ironic) But u cant seriously think that dazing strike could be the turn in tide because a skilled opponent can easily avoid it.
MI is more damage oriented , its true (and i dont think u could argue with me on that) BUT as I before mentioned when one is looking for damage TR is just ... potato chips in front of a TWF.
Oh , and in addition the survivability of a WK when played right , is staggering
MI>WK always theres no discussing that, its a fact. If you don't believe me try bringing a wk to a premade against any decent guild, you will just flop over every time somebody decides to attack you.
MI>WK always theres no discussing that, its a fact. If you don't believe me try bringing a wk to a premade against any decent guild, you will just flop over every time somebody decides to attack you.
Flopping usually happens with inexperienced WK players in PuGs. No mutual cover/teamwork and all.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Comments
Well IDK man, by using Smoke Bomb at the right time? I could have sworn at least that much would have been obvious since we're talking about a theoretical WK perma. Anyway, ITC is indeed superior. But if you're a WK, you don't have ITC, so SB is your next best bet. Best not to be picky and play with what you have is what I like to say.
I don't think that's true. Rogues have an assortment of dazes and stuns, and even a wide AoE daze/slow Smokebomb, which is one of the best CC in the game when used tactically.
I think the reason why we feel rogues have bad CCs, is that most CCs are to be used up close and personal to take advantage of. Like, you can stun someone with an Impact Shot, but to land something else within the duration, you have to be close... since obviously you're not going to walk 20~30feet afterwards and hope you can land a guaranteed LB on him. Same with Dazing Strike -- difficult to land.
When your whole build is about throwing knives from a range, you don't have any gap-closer to cut the distance short. Most MI build choices would use ITC, SS or B&S, and have 1 slot for the main attack, usually LB or Impact Shot. It's quite obvious why people don't see much worth in Smokebomb with this setup as well. Smokebomb requires a tactical placement smack in the middle of enemy formation, and it require to be used in stealth for maximum effect. However, when you don't have any sudden gap-closers to utilize, you have to just walk in the middle of 4~5 enemies and hope you aren't noticed before you deploy smoke. If there's one thing WK can do better than a MI build, that would be making use of CCs given to rogues. Heck, the main showcase power Vengeance's Pursuit, is by itself a gap-closer stun.
What I think, is that the "rogues have poor CCs" bit, is actually a conscious choice from us rogues. We gave up on all the CC powers willingly, to fight in some other manner that does not require CCs. I don't think rogues have bad CCs.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Very, very frankly speaking, I do think ITC will probably be up for redesign when the developers have time.
For a power that grants total immunity from everything (a "God-mode" if you will), the recharge time is way too short. Rogues with high recharge values can bring down the cooldown from default 18secs to under 15secs, and considering ITC is itself 5 secs in duration, it means basically every 10 seconds you are immune.
Effectively, a rogue is in ITC mode when he is visible, and he is in stealth when ITC is in cooldown. This is a prime mechanic for current MI based builds and something very fun for the user, but in terms of balance, although being a rogue myself (and I've also used it in the past), with good conscience I really cannot say this does not cause a problem in balance.
Everyone hates GWFs since the Unstoppable mechanic is like, bullshi*, in the frequency it allows them to go into Unstoppable, almost back-to-back. But to other classes, they'll probably feel the same way about ITC and us rogues. People boast that they can hold a node forever against 2~3 people and still survive -- but I think the way that is possible, is actually a tell-tale sign that something's not right. Empirically speaking, when you are outnumbered by 2~3 people, being pushed into a corner and getting KOd, that's what should be normal in PvP. What GWFs and ITC rogues are doing, frankly, is abnormal in my opinion.
I think we have it coming *shudders*.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
All of which are garbage when compared to the CC abilities of every other class and SB is the weakest of the AoE CC effects.
So what if my grandfather had three balls??
He would have been a flipper.
But sorry man, you're not a flipper
That's a bit extreme statement, trap.
Imagine a CW that has, and can pop in and out of stealth at will. If our CCs are to be on exact same grounds as others, that's undoubtably and simply gamebreakingly OP. Hence, there's a natural penalty of shorter duration, and melee-execution requirement. The majority MI builds have trouble mostly in landing those CCs, while WK builds have less... and I certainly can say it won't feel like garbage to those who have been on its receiving end.
Also, not to repeat myself, Smokebomb is simply as weak as the person using it. Its all about timing, and not just dumping it blindly. Its just a matter of how experienced you are with it, nothing more, nothing less.
We'll never be able to have as strong CCs as those other classes, but frankly, what we have is more than enough -- if you can use it well.
(ps) On that grounds, I've said it before and I'll say it again, fighter-class knock-prones that have an AoE range.. that's just BS. It should have as much strict requirements in melee range as any power, or, at least for GWFs. I can understand the slowpoke GFs needing ranged prones, but a GWF already one of the fastest in movement, just swinging at any general direction and knocking someone down from ranged... that's just BS.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I honestly have no idea what you're saying
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
OT: Np bro. I highlighted the part where you said "If I had a good pvp equipment" etc. Anyway, the meaning of what I said is that you can be sure of something only when there are no ifs or buts
I'm a newbie there, I'd like to know whether it is possible or not to have a perma stealth build WK. Do I have to put some points in INT or can I reach the right amount of recovery just through the equipment? Is it possible with a Drow (as of now I'm 15 with 11 INT)?
Respect. I've just begun to play and I decided I like the WK. I don't give a **** if MI is stronger or whatsoever. I just think it is going to be a pretty funny class and therefore I decided to give it a try. Kwaessa is the only one who's trying to really understand all pros and cons of this path and I can't actually understand why so many people criticize him. If you choose the easiest and strongest class or path in every game you play... Bro, you're doing it wrong!
Lets say that the same setting is for both teams in pvp a tr, a twf, def and 2 other(im not mentioning everything because to write a full tactics guide is not what i hope for) , in the end what matters is who caps the center, right? (don't argue about that , just try to see the point made)
So... the two opposing fighters(def,twf) the tank and the damage dealer tactically should take firstly the opposing damage dealer, correct ?
now , if they are incapacitated for a moderate amount of time then , its all over
there's where wk comes into plot . if one uses vp and smoke bomb while stealthed , (remember the other rogue is still running to get to the point) , ur team wins , not to mention that spamming -5% to damage , stacking up to a total -15% (FROM A DISTANCE!!!) is not to be trifled with, same goes for HK vs SE and if I might add the name (hatefull knives) is very thought of (just ask a defender what he hates most in the beginning of the battle when he has entrenched himself - fully healthed. SE or HK? )
vp also can get you near an ally , or is everybody too distracted by thinking about damage dealing
Well i guess i too believe that the video was one of a kind and it is not the rule in this situation. however i think that when playing with good players wk can turn the tide easily .
NO he cant 1 vs 1 anyone, but there is no 1vs1 setting in pvp.There is always 5v5 .... unless i missed something
I also have a mi and i enjoy playing him in the dungeons.I think he must be OP too because i deal more than half the damage cw deal
I will be waiting for your input about my view
Er.. actually I can.
I think about now would be safe to assume that any GWF a MI TR can take down, I can do so with WK as well. The WK build I bring into light is still in the state of evolvement, and my latest incarnation makes extensive use of VP stuns and Dazing strike.
Therefore, any GWF that is "invincible" in 1vs1 scenarios, which even the perma/semi-perma/ITC-rotation MI builds cannot take down -- those I cannot take down as well. Frickin' near impossible. But any GWF that is one notch below it, whether in gear, or in skill, or both, now I can take them down with a WK build, and quite reliably.
...
The "team build" aspect, IMO, would probably have to do more with the general concept of PvP the TR player has, rather than a true "WK vs. MI" comparison. MI builds IMO can just as easily build for team support, and if I may venture an opinion, its usually the versatility and ease of running MI builds which usually tend to make TR players too focused on oneself, rather than the whole team. If the TR player thinks its more important for the team to generally ignore the combat around him and go for back-nodes, then he uses the (currently) popular power selection.
If he thinks its more important for him to stay and assist in major battles at mid, then he may use something different. I don't think there's a "correct answer" here, so to speak. PvP is afterall, dynamic.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
MI is more damage oriented , its true (and i dont think u could argue with me on that) BUT as I before mentioned when one is looking for damage TR is just ... potato chips in front of a TWF.
Oh , and in addition the survivability of a WK when played right , is staggering
Flopping usually happens with inexperienced WK players in PuGs. No mutual cover/teamwork and all.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'