4 piece HZ vs 2 piece dread ring 2 piece Illyabruen

fakenameszyx

Alright, so I am finally at the end game doing endgame things. I know the High Vizier set is amazing, you know the High Vizier set is amazing, we all do. However, I am always in groups with at least 1 other cw, and they are almost always wearing 4/4 HZ. Seeing as HZ doesn't stack, should I go for the aforementioned setup?

You lose 450ish recovery, and gain 900 power as well as various slightly improved stats across the board. I really don't think there is a downside to this. What does everyone think?

FYI My ArPen is basically capped and power doesn't stop scaling, I think, so isn't 2/2 and 2/2 the best setup if you have another HZ CW in the group?

hmdq

my opinion is that 2/2 serves only to players who want to increase the GS and it does not mean increasing the percentage of their attributes, even those who use 2/2 loses bonus for the use of 4 pieces that are better or worse but are still better than +300 bonus of some attribute! until they convince me otherwise be one set of gear for which is much better than a mixed set and MAYBE that serve only if the player want to reach a soft cap, just that.

valiadgr

With Augment Pets,Artifacts,Companion active stat bonuses,high level enchantments and some good planning its quite easy to reach arpen hard cap and the rest of the soft caps so yeah power is the way to go and that 2/4 + 2/4 combo is the most appealing choice stat wise.
Can't remember out of scratch (its all in Grimah's bible) but I am not sure if you can keep up 3/3 HV stacks on aoe or single target situations without using very specific spells so a second CW stacking it is not that bad of an idea at first. Given that the rest of your group is at the same gear levels though as you and the fact that you have another HV CW I think yeah the 2+2 idea is the way to go for personal dps increase.
Some time ago when there was an HV CW the other one would go with a Shadow Weaver set since in theory its the most appealing set bonus from all the rest(extra party buffs are great in a strong group) but I think it has a long internal cooldown or something so that too pales in comparison to the raw power you can get from the 2+2 not to mention the fact that if you have geared up around HV set the rest of your gear , SW will waste a load of stats on crit and its diminishing returns. No need to even say anything about the rest of the 4/4 set bonuses they ain't worth it.

vnrenshi

keep in mind that you're also losing a rather significant amount of regen by dropping high vizier for a 2+2 set, and although the lifesteal from the dread legion set would be of some benefit, regen is a much more reliable source of HP returns. If your regen is going to go below 1k, i'd certainly suggest sticking with high vizier

it might also be worthwhile to mention that although the 4 piece set bonus from HV does not stack, there's no guarantee that a single wizard will be able to keep the debuff up 100% of the time on every mob, so for the sake of party dps as a whole, i've found it worthwhile to run my HV set in conjunction with another wizard with the same set, to ensure that everything gets its fair share of debuffing, and group damage as a whole is as high as possible as a result.

vorphied

Split sets are always a bad idea when you have a decent set bonus you can use. Additional stat gains from mixing sets provide miniscule benefit. 2/2 mixed sets provide no "raw power." It takes a HUGE amount of power to make a significant impact on damage numbers; adding a few hundred isn't game-changing by any means.

hmdq

valiadgr wrote: »

With Augment Pets,Artifacts,Companion active stat bonuses,high level enchantments and some good planning its quite easy to reach arpen hard cap and the rest of the soft caps so yeah power is the way to go and that 2/4 + 2/4 combo is the most appealing choice stat wise.
Can't remember out of scratch (its all in Grimah's bible) but I am not sure if you can keep up 3/3 HV stacks on aoe or single target situations without using very specific spells so a second CW stacking it is not that bad of an idea at first. Given that the rest of your group is at the same gear levels though as you and the fact that you have another HV CW I think yeah the 2+2 idea is the way to go for personal dps increase.
Some time ago when there was an HV CW the other one would go with a Shadow Weaver set since in theory its the most appealing set bonus from all the rest(extra party buffs are great in a strong group) but I think it has a long internal cooldown or something so that too pales in comparison to the raw power you can get from the 2+2 not to mention the fact that if you have geared up around HV set the rest of your gear , SW will waste a load of stats on crit and its diminishing returns. No need to even say anything about the rest of the 4/4 set bonuses they ain't worth it.

I agree in part, but still a significant amount to put in power (300-400) in the return will be lower dps debuff that any such set of HV.

hmdq

and another I have observed that there is not much difference between 3500 and 7000 power! though there is no officially a diminishing return the "bonus" of the damage is not as significant as it should be! before it was a percentage damage increase oh yes power would be even more essential for the magician and all other classes!

pers3phone

Actually 900 Power is not bad at all, especially considering boons that increase it further etc. Sure, not game changing, but still something.

However, the HV debuff is short lived, and even with 2 HV CWs, it will still drop off from some mobs. Also you will lose regen and the stolen def. buff.

Overall, a bad idea, especially as it is transparent that the only reason to go 2/2 is to push some more damage. Meh

vorphied

pers3phone wrote: »

Actually 900 Power is not bad at all, especially considering boons that increase it further etc. Sure, not game changing, but still something.

However, the HV debuff is short lived, and even with 2 HV CWs, it will still drop off from some mobs. Also you will lose regen and the stolen def. buff.

Overall, a bad idea, especially as it is transparent that the only reason to go 2/2 is to push some more damage. Meh

When I change augment pets on my DC, I lose 1400 Power, which translates to a teeny-tiny difference on Daunting Light, which has a huge base damage tooltip :P This is why I make a point of saying that Power doesn't do nearly as much as some people seem to think.

pers3phone

vorphied wrote: »

When I change augment pets on my DC, I lose 1400 Power, which translates to a teeny-tiny difference on Daunting Light, which has a huge base damage tooltip :P This is why I make a point of saying that Power doesn't do nearly as much as some people seem to think.

Yeah... you won't see bigger numbers just cause you slot some more Power. But... it accumulates.

However, the true reason to stack Power is that at one point, if you're ArP capped and near softcaps (whatever those might be for anybody) in Crit/Recovery, Power will be the stat that will increase your overall damage more efficiently. I think grimah calculated this for me a few weeks ago, when I was around 2100 Crit and 3100 recovery, and I had a dilemma on what to do - continue stacking crit or go Power. Power ended up the winner, even with its minor gains.

I am now standing at 6150 Power or so and still have no real idea if it's truly significant though :P

kozi001

I think the 2 fabled+2 dread legion is decent with the +900 power. Radiant is expensive nowadays.
More power works with renegade chaos fury decently. Not to mention a GF's knight captain bonus.

However if I see that no HV is around I put back myself. I put back before hard bosses as well.

verilos

If you are farming CN with 3-4 CW it won't hurt for one of them to have that extra 900 power. The rest should be HV.

900 Power will give you a decent DPS increase, it scales differently with different abilities as it will give you a 4-20 % damage increase.
How much actual DPS will depend on too much to calculate.

Try it and see how it deviates from your usual DPS in ACT. If there are less than 2 HV CW though it's a waste of time, you will likely do more damage than them but overall party dps will suffer. At least 2 viziers are a must for any party for any dungeon.

hmdq

pers3phone wrote: »

Yeah... you won't see bigger numbers just cause you slot some more Power. But... it accumulates.

However, the true reason to stack Power is that at one point, if you're ArP capped and near softcaps (whatever those might be for anybody) in Crit/Recovery, Power will be the stat that will increase your overall damage more efficiently. I think grimah calculated this for me a few weeks ago, when I was around 2100 Crit and 3100 recovery, and I had a dilemma on what to do - continue stacking crit or go Power. Power ended up the winner, even with its minor gains.

I am now standing at 6150 Power or so and still have no real idea if it's truly significant though :P

not much because unfortunately the bonus power is not flat but a "bonus on damage" and not a percentage damage increase even indirectly may perceive an increased damage percentage, and yet not be too mean! unless of course if you have already achieved their attributes in soft and hard in some oh yes invest in power, but from my point of view as a last resort!

vnrenshi

verilos wrote: »

If you are farming CN with 3-4 CW it won't hurt for one of them to have that extra 900 power. The rest should be HV.

900 Power will give you a decent DPS increase, it scales differently with different abilities as it will give you a 4-20 % damage increase.
How much actual DPS will depend on too much to calculate.

Try it and see how it deviates from your usual DPS in ACT. If there are less than 2 HV CW though it's a waste of time, you will likely do more damage than them but overall party dps will suffer. At least 2 viziers are a must for any party for any dungeon.

just....no lol

900 power will never, under any circumstances, give you up to a 20% damage increase on any skill. you need to check ACT again

hmdq

20% never, 20 more bonus on the damage maybe, lol

vorphied

vnrenshi wrote: »

just....no lol

900 power will never, under any circumstances, give you up to a 20% damage increase on any skill. you need to check ACT again

If there is a skill out there that scales up 20% in damage with just 900 extra Power, I want to know about it :P

Yeah, I'm not seeing how even a 4% increase is happening, much less a 20% one.

Unfortunately I can't perform this test on my CW, but my DC has two augment pets, so here's an example of the difference Power makes for him:

Power: 3583
Daunting Light tooltip max dmg: 6687

Power: 5104
Daunting Light tooltip max dmg: 7011

Power Difference: 1521 (42.5% more Power)
Damage Difference: +4.8%

Other DC powers I looked at yielded the same % damage increase.

j0shi82

In very specific setup where you run with 3+ CWs that could make sense. But overall, especially in PUGs, you'll be contributing much more with HV.

gankdalf

Two CWs with High Vizier in CN isn't really overkill. Sure it wont stack but u get a better uptime for it since there are alot of adds to cover. But if you run with more than two CWs, maybe changing class would be a better choice. 900 more power on one CW wont be noticeable. The Shadow weaver set is the only set that has a "good" bonus, but as I understand its still bugged..

The rest of the sets are just useless. Dont even understand why they have them in-game. Dont see the point making new sets that nobody will use because it cant compete with HV. I wish they could release gear that can compete with BiS so we get more options. Just feels like a big waste of time for the devs, time that could be used much better.

pers3phone

ejziponken wrote: »

Two CWs with High Vizier in CN isn't really overkill. Sure it wont stack but u get a better uptime for it since there are alot of adds to cover. But if you run with more than two CWs, maybe changing class would be a better choice. 900 more power on one CW wont be noticeable. The Shadow weaver set is the only set that has a "good" bonus, but as I understand its still bugged..

The rest of the sets are just useless. Dont even understand why they have them in-game. Dont see the point making new sets that nobody will use because it cant compete with HV. I wish they could release gear that can compete with BiS so we get more options. Just feels like a big waste of time for the devs, time that could be used much better.

Good post, many of us said exactly the same thing over and over again: new sets useless, no reason to upgrade gear, BiS is almost same as 6 months ago after 2 modules.

What's puzzling me even more is they add these sets that are pure DPS (and bad at it too) and contribute nothing to the party. What the heck are they thinking?

vnrenshi

it seems to me that they're thinking that they overstepped in making the HV bonus as good as it is, and don't want to create anything else nearly as powerful in the future that might broaden the gap between CW and other classes in terms of damage. It leaves me to wonder if the end result will simply be the removal of the HV set bonus entirely, to be replaced by one of equally terrible utility compared with the other available sets in a last ditch effort to stop other classes from complaining about how CW is too overpowered in PvE.

dsolz

pers3phone wrote: »

Yeah... you won't see bigger numbers just cause you slot some more Power. But... it accumulates.

However, the true reason to stack Power is that at one point, if you're ArP capped and near softcaps (whatever those might be for anybody) in Crit/Recovery, Power will be the stat that will increase your overall damage more efficiently. I think grimah calculated this for me a few weeks ago, when I was around 2100 Crit and 3100 recovery, and I had a dilemma on what to do - continue stacking crit or go Power. Power ended up the winner, even with its minor gains.

I am now standing at 6150 Power or so and still have no real idea if it's truly significant though :P

Have a spread sheet to help me optimize crit and power distribution. All i can say is that i am renegade and at or nearly at highest crit severity possible (with pvorpal feats etc )and my spreadsheet says that i shouldn't be distributing more then 2300 to crit strike. Power is a better choice compare to crit.