Nature Build HR ?

sigreg

Hello,

What do you think about nature build HR ? Once i asked about that in zone chat and got quite interresting answer:
"Consider other HR builds as glass cannons. If you chose Naure build you wont be cannon anymore, just the glass". Interesting answer, i must admit, but im curious how much truth is in this statement.
I would like to roll new HR just to try it out, but if its really SO BAD, maybe i would do better saving my time for something more practical. Lets say "archery" based HR brings to dungeon party some DPS (i know, other classes are better in that, but still), is anything special what Nature Build HR gives for the party what makes it worth to give a try ?

obsidiancran3

You can find my Nature HR build guide here.

I'm currently level 40 following my own guide and its working very well thanks.

What it brings is; damage reduction (temps/mitigation/dodges), solid DPS (you will not top the table, but you will do significant damage), a bit more healing (not enough to sack the DC, but its there) and some other effects (interrupts, debuffs, rooting).

You can bring all of those things with the other specs as well, but they do all the things that are not DPS less well to gain more DPS, while the Nature build is more about filling the cracks in a party and making everyone else's job easier. (Which is why Terror or Plaguefire are better enchants for it.)

You will be contributing in a meaningful way to the party's success, though many players will not realize that because you will not top any of the tables..so you must be useless....

xcessiveforce40

First, a lot of folks whine because a good ranger will out DPS most in a dungeon run. It seems to hurt the feelings of others that have spent lots of time and/or money on their toons that a new class comes along and out performs them in DPS. Whining is constant in this game so you have to ignore it. I would create a HR that you have FUN playing. I have respec'd my HR 2 times now. I went ranged in the level process and when I first reached level 60. It was fun but it was pretty much split arrow spam, rain, vines, etc...
Then I respec'd melee and had some fun. Its a lot of work to be honest utilizing both ranged encounters like rain, sky, etc.. while also hitting your melee encounters in the boss area. In the end you still are much lower dps than Ranged. I respec'd back to ranged HR 2 days ago and I am enjoying the easy peasy dps. If I get bored I may switch back. the Nature build hasn't interested me so far. The buffs are nice I guess but unless your in a guild many parties may not even give you a chance if you make the mistake and tell them your "nature" before a dungeon run starts.

Just choose a build and play style that you enjoy. I do try to help others that are new once they reach level 60 so give a shout if you need any assistance.
Good Luck and Have Fun.

hiddenfate

I'm currently in the 40's range with my HR and being a nature build is quite good.

Do I have as much damage as a melee or Archery or Hybrid Snake build? Gods no. But I can apply 10% mitigation defense with Boar's hide and Bonus damage reduction + Regeneration with Oak Skin. Whatever healer we have loves me by the end of every dungeon and skirmish because I'm making their job easy as hell. Just wait till I get stag's heart, they'll get extra damage reduction due to feats on top of all the other bonuses.

Unfortunately you'll have to rely heavily on your at wills and class features to boost your damage with this type of build.

leillanna

Until you are lvl 60 and attempting T2's you really can't say your ranger is fine. We bring absolutely jack and **** to a T2 run. There is no reason to have a ranger in your group. Thankfully my guild is full of nice people and they carry my gimped *** through dungeons.
Nature builds need a hell of a lot more buffing and debuffing potential before they're worth a a slot in a t2 group. Archery and combat need huge DPS boosts to be worth a slot. That said, it's still the most fun I've had with any class.

sirjesto

leillanna wrote: »

Until you are lvl 60 and attempting T2's you really can't say your ranger is fine. We bring absolutely jack and **** to a T2 run. There is no reason to have a ranger in your group. Thankfully my guild is full of nice people and they carry my gimped *** through dungeons.
Nature builds need a hell of a lot more buffing and debuffing potential before they're worth a a slot in a t2 group. Archery and combat need huge DPS boosts to be worth a slot. That said, it's still the most fun I've had with any class.

Not sure where you're coming from but I have never not been 1st or 2nd damage done in any T2 with my archer.

jaotut

I'm a 15K GS Nature spec HR, focusing on pvp, but I still run VT (still need my fallen dragon offland), and I do quite fine, and also planning to do a run without a DC soon, we did a run up to 1st boss while DC was afk. Of course, my CW will be a lot more useful and better for all other dungeons, but you can basically run any dungeon with 4 CWs.

If you're levelling or grinding dungeons for gear, I would recommend sticking to archery build, with vorpal being your weapon enchant. Make sure you have commanding shot, split the sky, thorn ward to help the party out as well.

I have also considered respec back into archery, or spec into combat, but after doing a very close 4v5 pvp match (after 1 of our party member dc'ed), I'm loving how my nature build helps the whole party out to stay alive, and still being able to kill.

elminster

Well I was going to post a nice chunk of text praising Nature Rangers, but then the forum glitched and I lost the whole thing and can't remember what I typed. So instead I'll keep it short and simple: Nature Ranger is great and I love having them. Anybody that says they don't contribute to a fight doesn't understand the concept of offensive support. If you decide that's the route you want to go then know you'll always have a spot in my parties

jaotut

just did a full VT run with no DC, it was me (Nature HR), destroyer GWF, and 3 CWs, fastest VT run ever, we just skipped getting the caskets after the 2nd laser phase

I ran stag heart, and oak skin throughout the whole run whenever I could and no one died

obsidiancran3

leillanna wrote: »

Until you are lvl 60 and attempting T2's you really can't say your ranger is fine. We bring absolutely jack and **** to a T2 run. There is no reason to have a ranger in your group. Thankfully my guild is full of nice people and they carry my gimped *** through dungeons.
Nature builds need a hell of a lot more buffing and debuffing potential before they're worth a a slot in a t2 group. Archery and combat need huge DPS boosts to be worth a slot. That said, it's still the most fun I've had with any class.

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion. I'm sorry your HR is not meeting your expectations for Epic play. My own experience is remarkably different & my archery spec is a strong contributor in all dungeon runs especially when with similarly geared characters.

I'm very confident in the Nature spec's ability to contribute based on having played the HR to 60 multiple times already and having done a lot of testing, both straight up testing and informal observations during game play. As a result I have a strong understanding of the underlying mechanics of the class, & while I do not claim mastery of the class I am confident that I am knowledgable enough to offer sound advice.

umaeko

Even though it's very hard to get into groups, I've gotten a good deal of praise for my nature-tree ranger. The people that mainly seem to notice it are the clerics. I'm a bit self-conscious of how useful people consider me since I usually rank 4th place in the Paingiver rankings, but it takes a lot of effort to cycle my buffs around and make sure they're always applied/timely applied.

When people ask me what I'm good for, I tell them "I won't make you clear the dungeon faster, but I will make it easier". As in, with me around, parties tend to stay full up a lot more. Clerics aren't nearly so harried. And I greatly help in recovering from mishaps.

The class features is use for my HR are Aspect of the Pack and Stormstep Action. My dailies are Disruptive Shot and Forest Meditation.

The powers I run are:

Commanding Shot/Stag Heart
- The attack debuffs enemy damage and damage resistance for 6 seconds after the strike.
- Grant +12% temporary hitpoints, +10% Damage Resistance (indefinite, while tempHP are not damaged); +10% movement speed (10sec)

Binding Shot/Oak Skin
Increased Damage Resistance and Health Regeneration for the whole party for 15 seconds, +10% movement bonus (10sec)

Fox's Cunning/Fox Shift
Free dodge for each members of my party every 11 seconds.

...so.

I make people faster, tougher, give them temporary hitpoints which I can 17 seconds later resplenish, and that buffer of TempHP gives me buff's very fast health regen time to help my ailing party members recuperate; and on top of that I can make them escape one attack for free - even a red attack zone (though it doesn't spare them from knockback/knockdown); I can fire a debuff helping make more damage...

This seems absurdly bard-like for a Ranger, but it does seem like it's a pretty good contribution. Now, if only the people in /LFG would understand this when I mention "strong party buffer" in my request to join Malabog Castle parties during DDs...

munkey81

I'm curious how much your Oak Skin heals for with the nature build.

I'm assuming yours works the same way, but my Oak Skin is deflected by myself, and party members. At best I think I seen a 200 tick.

obsidiancran3

That's what it does, plus grant some mitigation. So with the Nature build with Oak Skin buffed with its feat you are looking at 2-3k of healing each time it concludes. So about 10% of most characters HP. Combined with them taking less damage (Fox's and Stag) in the first place you are going to make a big difference to overall party health.

vengefulfury

I'm actually making my own "hybrid" so to say but I'm only lvl17 so i need to fine tune it to be honest. So far it seems to be working though, I've only died once and that's because i was stupid enough not to buy any health potions xD

xthebluespiritx

i go for nature too, and more of a defensive build, but all the endgame gear seems to reduce defense and deflection for crits and such, any good HR defense gear?

masterjewstar

I actually really like the NHR just as much as archery people around me just don't seem to want to die unless absolutely overwhelmed i.e. 40 on 1. I still find myself lol a lot when people are still able to be hit and not even really feel it. but I just got to 60, 3 days ago 11k gs which isn't even truly important for the NHR either.

It makes clerics need to be less of a healbot so they can switch at least one heal for attack thus even there we help contribute damage.

"Consider other HR builds as glass cannons. If you chose Naure build you won't be cannon anymore, just the glass"

This is garbage pure and unadulterated and probably said without even playing or cracking the binding on one; sure I'm no cannon but thats what CW's and TR's are for;

I can hit just as fast and use many of the same moves as the cannon ranger just to a lesser 10% degree of damage; 10% being in midrange for their usual distance the only thing other than that is the crit boosts they get and stacked to 30% the crit boost barely matters.

I'm just as tanky as melee spec and just fast as any other HR and I make allies just as tanky as me even more so for actual tanks, even CW's don't sustain that much damage due to the T.hp and various mitigation boosts.

My buffs are almost an anti-stupidity button too especially with a cleric.

obsidiancran3

On the "not a cannon" thing my experience is that if I'm focussing on buffs my dps goes down noticeably, but if I'm balanced in buffs and dps I do ok in dps, or there is a good DC and I can drop all buffs but Fox's then I do well in dps.

Just need to get the Glade Stalker helm now and then I can start on t2s in ernest with her (mainly PK because I badly need AD/Drakes to sort a bow upgrade out).

masterjewstar

Yeah I can agree on that, only because I'm not attacking for 1 second per buff and I don't have my archers set up on while buffing; but I still can drop most of the buffs and be almost as effective damage-wise like you said; but I don't truly have to dodge absolutely everything like an archer does because my buffs and t.hp (up-to 3k now from my 25.6k hp) protect me from most attacks so no time wasted there.

Point is I can do both. An archer or melee can't buff for the party as well as NHR can but they still can do it at the very basic level as well for themselves minus the boosts from nature feats too.

The simple fact that I also end up reducing enemy defense doesn't hurt damage either.

And when I use stag heart they notice; 12% max hp as stackable t.hp every so often is pretty hard to miss.

Anyway most don't invite natures to lfg DD's because first look at ranger without playing one, all they see is a damage dealer no more, no less. And saying you are nature automatically; to them means less damage which is only barely a quarter truth and in my opinion this is wrong.

I have hit in dungeon on Idris 8k on two targets (one of them Idris herself) with binding arrow but no-one but me saw that.

And honestly in protectors enclave 1 hr before dd everyone is spamming lfg chat anyway so party buffer doesn't sound as good to them as 17k GWF or 14k CW does or at the very least hard to pinpoint that particular chat due to everyone firing them out at once multiple times every 5 seconds.

obsidiancran3

Absolutely.

I was just being clear about my experience. The cool thing is you can adjust like that and meet the needs of the party you are with, the other two builds have a lot more trouble doing that.

ximae

Yeah its true that for lower end parties all those buffs are a pretty big asset but once the party starts to be overgeared all what truly matters is dps, hell u can even run most dungeons without a dc.

So if ur not a healer (when needed) u better be able to dish out some good dps or u wont make it in twice.

nature builds dont only loose out on damage buff feats and the crit feats, which is already quite big, its the skills used too as mentioned, as ull be missing out on the bigger hitting encounters like rain of arrows, split the sky (throw caution!).... and if u slot them they are going to be less effective( say fox is gona hit like 30% less) because all those feats which are doing nothing in your rotation coz ur specced for buffing and are not doing so.

but its only my opinion....

obsidiancran3

*sigh*

Fox's never leaves my bar in Nature spec (& rarely in Archery) and its effectiveness is never changed by what other powers I have slotted.

If the party needs you to run Rain/Split or better Split/Thorn you can do that just fine and while its not maximising your feats it is maximising what the party needs you to do.

That said there are reasons my standard selection is Commanding/Binding, Thorn, Fox's; heals/temps and a defense buff and a dodge with strong melee attack combined with either good single target damage or debuffs that stack with ArP (ie force defense negative) thus boosting DPS for stronger dps builds.

The fact most people don't know what a HR does is probably more of a problem than what it does...

masterjewstar

^ Pretty much this.

ximae

Fox's never leaves my bar in Nature spec (& rarely in Archery) and its effectiveness is never changed by what other powers I have slotted.

well its not the powers slotted, well maybe throw caution, its the feats uve taken. Ur fox is gona hit for around 15-30% less than an hybrids depending on how he is specced or 15% less than an archer if he took bloodthirsty and 15% less than a melee.

That said there are reasons my standard selection is Commanding/Binding, Thorn, Fox's; heals/temps and a defense buff and a dodge with strong melee attack combined with either good single target damage or debuffs that stack with ArP (ie force defense negative) thus boosting DPS for stronger dps builds.

What i meant is that high end parties dont need those defensive buffs and any ranger can debuff the same as long as he took the skills. What i didnt consider when i wrote that is that u can use offensive buffs like throw caution (does the buff apply the defense debuff on everyone?) on the party which might compensate ur personal loss of dps, so ill leave it at that.

doomsday22k

With the pvp changes coming and adding tenacity, I am starting to think the buffing role of a nature based HR might come in very handy to give a boost/edge for the team. With damage and regen being significantly reduced the abilities that the nature based HR has, might help to compensate for some of the loss.

I haven't actually run any tests to validate this yet, but I was just theorising on it.

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?582751-Cryptic-OFFICIAL-Tenacity-Feedback-Thread