New weirgen TR - Couple of questions

bendalek

Firstly, I'll just say I'm not totally new to NWO, but this is my first TR so please be gentle ... I've got a 60 of each of the other classes (including HR). And I'm primarily a Solo PvE player ... I've dabbled in PvP, but I either got my ... Sword knots ... cut off, or it was just so pathetic, I must have been playing a bot ... So I'm just doing Campaign Dailies ATM ...


So first off, is the TR really THAT good at damage?!?!?!? I don't consider myself to be anything but an average skill level player, but ... Mother of Torm, 4 or 5 hits to kill an Ogre! when my TR is only lvl 12? using lvl 10 Green Knives ??? I KNOW i'm not that good, but even my GWF couldn't kill an Ogre that quickly.

I thought the HR was pretty good at damage (the Split Shot IS awesome) but ... but ... Is that normal for TR's? And does it continue as you get to higher levels? Mob fighting is a slight problem as i don't (yet) have any real AoE attacks, but still ...

I will say though that she IS a bit squishy ... No more so than the HR, or my GWF, at around the same lvl (I'm not running the CD companion, so I'm a pot addict ATM)

...

Also the first Daily you get, the one where you turn into the flash and zap about slicing and dicing ... It hardly ever works for me! I press the button, but all I hear is some woman laughing and nothing happens except my AP drops to 0, It only seems to work 1 in every 5 tries, am I doing something wrong?

pingconchere

The TR's early damage (and damage throughout leveling) is pretty high. I'm not sure about five hits killing an ogre, but a TR can kill the bigger mobs pretty fast. To balance this, the TR is pretty squishy, so using stealth effectively will help greatly as you level (and at level 60, of course). Also, the GWF's damage is not very strong early on and has a very weak single target at-will. Sly Flourish will scale a lot better and hits pretty hard.

Early on, as long as you use stealth well, leveling will seem very easy and damage very high. When you get to the mid-to-higher levels, it will be a little harder, perhaps. You still hit very hard, but the enemies don't die quite as fast and they hit much, much harder. From my experience, it isn't necessary to use pots and/or a cleric companion, as long as you use stealth effectively. I've leveled many characters, and I can't remember the last time I used a potion/cleric. So, stealth is key for a stronger performance.

Bloodbath is your first daily. You can activate it at any time, but you have to be in range of an enemy for it to really work. It has a small range (I can't remember off the top of my head, but it's not super far). It's good to use when you're afraid you're about to take a lot of damage, as you can't be targeted during the duration of the daily. So, always try to use it when next to an enemy. It will work.

Last tip: you can't do this now, but when you hit lvl 28, start stacking regeneration gear. The grey/common quality "Youth" pieces can be bought on the AH for very, very little, and you will notice a huge improvement in ease of play. Also, that early on, the only real gear factor that impacts your damage is weapon damage, so stacking regen over some crit and power will not really decrease your damage at all, but definitely increase your survivability.

bendalek

Wow thanks pingconchere ... So the TR is really a "Glass Cannon" ... I've read all the 'guides' on these venerable pages so I figured that Regen was going to be a necessary evil at higher levels, I'm just glad it gets harder as you level up ...

The only problem with most of the guides, is that they tend to talk about lvl 60 Powers and Feats and T2 gear, there isn't much info on what/how to level up, so I've had to read between the lines ...

As for Bloodbath, I guess I'll have to figure out the 'range' for the power, either that or use a different daily ...

Thanks again for the info and advice ...

utuwer

Regen is only important if you like to play PvP and it is only noticeable by stacking a lot (1000+) and have big hp pool. Also, regen ticks every 3 seconds. The less missing HP, the smaller each tick would be. Since rogues deal a lot of dmg and in very short time, I would recommend life steal over regen, at least, before lvl 60.

Bloodbath's range has 30' range, just a little further than rogue's at-will. What you described is when you activated it and the target suddenly got out of its range. This will cancel the skill and also drain your AP pool. Weird, but it is how it works currently.

Rogues' 2nd daily is Whirlwind of Blades. This one hits everything within 30' around you and also gives you extra power based on number of targets got hit. This one is much easier to use since it never fails like Bloodbath. It is a very good choice to get rid of swamps of small mobs.

pitshade

Solo PVE starts to get a lot harder around Velosck when you find bosses that do no range AOE attacks, have tons of HP and/or elite adds. It gets better again at lvl 50 when you get smokebomb.

Regen works better while soloing, IMO because while it may only rarely save your life, it's always ticking even when you kiting, waiting for stealth to replenish or what not. It's fairly easy to get 600+ just using green gear at level 40. It won't save your life if you screw up, but it will make everything a lot smoother. At 600 regen, you will start healing enough not to use potions between fights. At 800+ it will start having an effect in combat when you are really hurt, i.e. learn to kite stuff while you heal and rebuild stealth.

Just remember this though. Bait and Switch, Shadowstrike, Smokebomb. Lurker's Assault. Get them all maxed out as soon as you can. You won't need to have them all the same time, but it helps, but you will want them for soloing.

bendalek

pitshade wrote: »

Solo PVE starts to get a lot harder around Velosck when you find bosses that do no range AOE attacks, have tons of HP and/or elite adds. It gets better again at lvl 50 when you get smokebomb.

Regen works better while soloing, IMO because while it may only rarely save your life, it's always ticking even when you kiting, waiting for stealth to replenish or what not. It's fairly easy to get 600+ just using green gear at level 40. It won't save your life if you screw up, but it will make everything a lot smoother. At 600 regen, you will start healing enough not to use potions between fights. At 800+ it will start having an effect in combat when you are really hurt, i.e. learn to kite stuff while you heal and rebuild stealth.

Just remember this though. Bait and Switch, Shadowstrike, Smokebomb. Lurker's Assault. Get them all maxed out as soon as you can. You won't need to have them all the same time, but it helps, but you will want them for soloing.

Yeah, after doing several skirmishes and the Tower Dungeon, it's becoming more obvious ... I still topped the damage dealt charts every time, but the HR's normally beat me on the total number of enemies killed (because of adds <-> Split Shot obviously), plus I had the highest or second highest of points healed ... Oh, and i had to use a life scroll once because I was stewpud and got myself surrounded by about 5 overlapping red circles ...

I got used to kiting with the HR, so now I've got to start practicing the stealth tactics ... It just seems .. well ... Kinda' like cheating ... It's just seems sooo unfair, especially if you camp on spawn points, which I did to get the Orc Slayer and Ogre Slayer Achievements ... I guess I've got to remember I'm playing a Rogue class, so I've got to leave my Paladin/Knightly virtues at the door somewhat ... **** it's fun though, Lolz ...

pitshade

Ogre slayer is easy with any class once you learn to read their movements. Every attack is so slow. Deft Strike+Dazing Strike+Dodge and you'll never need to use stealth on them. Shocktroop Devils/Warlords are the same way. My first rogue won the Devil Hunter contest at level 30 when she first got to Helm's Hold. However, stealth will seem less OP when you start fighting stuff in the higher level maps. Then it's your lifeline, and you'll still be kiting.

The key is not to neglect your defenses unless you're always running with a tank. Offense comes easy to a rogue but you have to work to survive long enough to use it. So don't get overconfident about the low level stuff. When you get to higher levels, it all comes down to skill. A fight will either seem like easy mode or you'll be sweating bullets depending on whether or not you build up good skills now.

bendalek

Oh yeah, that what I'm finding ... After rolling mainly "Paladin" classes in the past, and then a DC and CW, the HR was a BIG learning curve ... Taught me a lot about, firstly how bad a player i was (Lol) but mostly about figuring out tactics to fight different enemies ... You can't just hit them with a bigger, heavier stick like the sword wielding or spell casting classes.

The TR is different again, and I guess the high damage made me sort of feel invincible, because I was killing everything before they really did any damage to me ... Up to Helm's Hold now, and things are getting tougher, which is awesome IMHO, because now I've go to concentrate and really learn the combos and tactics, I love sweating bullets! ...

...

Another quick question ... I saw a TR in PE last night, looked like a Halfling or Dwarf from the size, but, He/She was partially stealthed (you could hear the 'entering stealth' sound effect every couple of seconds) and all covered in black smoke, and was tearing about PE like a crazed energizer bunny from hell ... on a speed + acid trip ... and was travelling at nearly the same speed as a Purple mount! How did they do that?

pitshade

Hmm, sounds like a permastealth build with an armor enchant (not really familiar with those). The Sneak Attack class feature increases your run speed by 30% when stealthed. Skillful Infiltrator adds another 15%. Saboteur feat Expert Sneak is another 10% That's enough already to move faster than a regular mount. I guess it's possible to stack enough movement from gear and boons to go a lot faster. I've never tried much more than the 360 points you can get with Dark 5s in Utility slots but that's not very noticeable.

I'm using Banelorne's build which allows for extended stealth but requires attacking to keep it going. Haven't investigated other builds so I can't really say exactly what they were doing.