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Suggestions for new Foundry authors from a D&D veteran
thylbanus
Member Posts: 21 Arc User
Since you are looking at this, you have shown concern for improving your authoring skills and I applaud that. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope you find it beneficial. I recently went on a bender with some Foundry titles (including suggested ones for the astral diamonds) and 9 out of 10 were nothing more than meat grinders. In that I mean it was just one long Kobayashi Maru, with wave after wave of monsters that often times couldn't stand to be near each other, let alone fight as a group.
And that allows me to segway right into my first rule when crafting an adventure.
UNDERSTAND YOUR MATERIAL
It sounds a bit odd to say, but many do not understand the material. For example, free willed undead do not care for the living or daylight (something that the opening cinematic also missed). They wouldn't be hanging out on a sunny path with gnolls and orcs waiting to ambush you. Also, be immersed in the lore of D&D and the Forgotten Realms. Red Wizards of Thay are cool, but they are no more enemies as allies to anyone. The coup of Szass Tam ended the rule of the Magiocracy and now are no more good nor evil than any other. As a matter of fact, Red Wizards are a loose association of mages who traffic in magical goods. Magic merchants, basically. They are no longer associated with Thay nor do they shave their heads anymore. There are many cool enemies out there and you would love to put them ALL in your adventure, but realize, they have to have motivation to be there. Which brings me to my next rule:
EVERY CHARACTER HAS MOTIVATION
From the orc scout to the scheming necromancer lord each has some reason to be where they are. The reason we love fantasy titles is because the writers understand that without motivation, why would the enemy be doing what they are doing. It's not always as simple as "Because they are monsters and hate humans/civilization" That is what dooms movies, books, and D&D adventures: No motivation or two-dimensional motivation. In the Lord of the Ring series, primary motivation is that Sauron wishes to rule all of Middle Earth. Each motivation for each subgroup differs. Gollum can switch from pitiable, cautious ally to evil, sadistic murderer because of his motivations (and mental instability). The Witch King is bound to Sauron's will because of the Ring of Power he so readily accepted and now hates everything because he cannot rest. He seeks out the living to destroy them because they remind him of what his greed made him sacrifice. Players hardly ever think, "Hrmmm... I didn't like that because I didn't understand Grolf the Lich King's motivation." It is more of a feeling than anything most can express, but it is there.
MAKE IT DIGESTIBLE
Usually at this point I have a grand epic that is so massive that to tell it would require everyone to quit their jobs to play in my campaign. Since most of us don't have that luxury, it needs to be broken up into smaller parts. To eat this elephant, it must be done in stages. Like the Star Wars series, it started off as one story that turned into 9 movies. Each movie has a discernible start, build up, and climax (even when that climax is a cliffhanger).
Making things digestible means many things. The story must be digestible. You don't want to have one character expounding upon the history and lore of your campaign. You will lose interest and all you wrote was for naught as it becomes TL:DR. Give different parts of your story to different NPCs. Each with a snippet of information that will be brought together to form the whole. Remember, you don't have voice overs, so keep it simple.
Encounters need to also be digestible. You should never have "Kill 20 waves" or "Find 10 secrets" If it is a mission step, it should be two or three, never more than five. The finale can be a boss fight, but that is not always required. Name EVERY boss. It's part of understanding motivation for the player. It also pays to bring those bosses names up later in other ways. The enemy tells you that they fight to avenge Grolf or the scheming manipulator thanks you for cleaning up after Grolf so that he didn't have to expend the resources to do so.
Maps must be digestible. Sure you want to have a feeling of going deep, deep, deep into the Underdark, but you don't have to make them walk the whole way. Transportation devices with little snippets that state, "It will be a long trek to our destination. Maybe as long as a week..." Then upon arriving at said destination, "After many days of uneventful travel..." Or even break it up with a mini-sidequest, "After six days of travel, the caravan sets up for another uneventful night. Or so it seems..." and have a break-out where you have swarms of enemies (here is where you can have unrelated content. Anyone can raid a caravan) and you have to get someone of import to safety. Maybe even rescue the caravanners left behind. And for all that is within you, DO NOT MAKE THEM WALK ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE BEGINNING. Nothing is more aggravating that having to walk all the way back after a long trek into a cave or castle.
DON'T BE TYPICAL
Actually, it's more of a suggestion than a rule. You kind of have to go with stereotypical characters and archetypes. Otherwise going against the grain ALL the time, makes it not against the grain and your players will always expect a twist. It's why M. Night Shyamalan has gone out of favor. When you twist everything, it becomes typical and expected. That actually detracts from the story. Never have more than two twists in any given storyline. No more than three during an entire campaign. The size can matter as well. There is only one real BIG twist in Star Wars: Darth Vader is Luke's Father. Yoda being Yoda and Leia being his sister are really minor twists. (Sorry Yoda, size matters in plot twists). Remember that while Archlichs and Baelorn exist, count them among your twists. Just because they are cannon, doesn't mean that they are not twists.
These are some really basic suggestions, but they will help craft a better scenario. Writing things out in outline before even jumping into the Foundry is suggested, but not required. It just help to maintain a cohesive story and make sure it doesn't ramble. Thanks for taking the time to read. I hope you found it beneficial.
Visit Forgotten Realms Wiki and Neverwinter Wiki for help in lore and background.
And that allows me to segway right into my first rule when crafting an adventure.
UNDERSTAND YOUR MATERIAL
It sounds a bit odd to say, but many do not understand the material. For example, free willed undead do not care for the living or daylight (something that the opening cinematic also missed). They wouldn't be hanging out on a sunny path with gnolls and orcs waiting to ambush you. Also, be immersed in the lore of D&D and the Forgotten Realms. Red Wizards of Thay are cool, but they are no more enemies as allies to anyone. The coup of Szass Tam ended the rule of the Magiocracy and now are no more good nor evil than any other. As a matter of fact, Red Wizards are a loose association of mages who traffic in magical goods. Magic merchants, basically. They are no longer associated with Thay nor do they shave their heads anymore. There are many cool enemies out there and you would love to put them ALL in your adventure, but realize, they have to have motivation to be there. Which brings me to my next rule:
EVERY CHARACTER HAS MOTIVATION
From the orc scout to the scheming necromancer lord each has some reason to be where they are. The reason we love fantasy titles is because the writers understand that without motivation, why would the enemy be doing what they are doing. It's not always as simple as "Because they are monsters and hate humans/civilization" That is what dooms movies, books, and D&D adventures: No motivation or two-dimensional motivation. In the Lord of the Ring series, primary motivation is that Sauron wishes to rule all of Middle Earth. Each motivation for each subgroup differs. Gollum can switch from pitiable, cautious ally to evil, sadistic murderer because of his motivations (and mental instability). The Witch King is bound to Sauron's will because of the Ring of Power he so readily accepted and now hates everything because he cannot rest. He seeks out the living to destroy them because they remind him of what his greed made him sacrifice. Players hardly ever think, "Hrmmm... I didn't like that because I didn't understand Grolf the Lich King's motivation." It is more of a feeling than anything most can express, but it is there.
MAKE IT DIGESTIBLE
Usually at this point I have a grand epic that is so massive that to tell it would require everyone to quit their jobs to play in my campaign. Since most of us don't have that luxury, it needs to be broken up into smaller parts. To eat this elephant, it must be done in stages. Like the Star Wars series, it started off as one story that turned into 9 movies. Each movie has a discernible start, build up, and climax (even when that climax is a cliffhanger).
Making things digestible means many things. The story must be digestible. You don't want to have one character expounding upon the history and lore of your campaign. You will lose interest and all you wrote was for naught as it becomes TL:DR. Give different parts of your story to different NPCs. Each with a snippet of information that will be brought together to form the whole. Remember, you don't have voice overs, so keep it simple.
Encounters need to also be digestible. You should never have "Kill 20 waves" or "Find 10 secrets" If it is a mission step, it should be two or three, never more than five. The finale can be a boss fight, but that is not always required. Name EVERY boss. It's part of understanding motivation for the player. It also pays to bring those bosses names up later in other ways. The enemy tells you that they fight to avenge Grolf or the scheming manipulator thanks you for cleaning up after Grolf so that he didn't have to expend the resources to do so.
Maps must be digestible. Sure you want to have a feeling of going deep, deep, deep into the Underdark, but you don't have to make them walk the whole way. Transportation devices with little snippets that state, "It will be a long trek to our destination. Maybe as long as a week..." Then upon arriving at said destination, "After many days of uneventful travel..." Or even break it up with a mini-sidequest, "After six days of travel, the caravan sets up for another uneventful night. Or so it seems..." and have a break-out where you have swarms of enemies (here is where you can have unrelated content. Anyone can raid a caravan) and you have to get someone of import to safety. Maybe even rescue the caravanners left behind. And for all that is within you, DO NOT MAKE THEM WALK ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE BEGINNING. Nothing is more aggravating that having to walk all the way back after a long trek into a cave or castle.
DON'T BE TYPICAL
Actually, it's more of a suggestion than a rule. You kind of have to go with stereotypical characters and archetypes. Otherwise going against the grain ALL the time, makes it not against the grain and your players will always expect a twist. It's why M. Night Shyamalan has gone out of favor. When you twist everything, it becomes typical and expected. That actually detracts from the story. Never have more than two twists in any given storyline. No more than three during an entire campaign. The size can matter as well. There is only one real BIG twist in Star Wars: Darth Vader is Luke's Father. Yoda being Yoda and Leia being his sister are really minor twists. (Sorry Yoda, size matters in plot twists). Remember that while Archlichs and Baelorn exist, count them among your twists. Just because they are cannon, doesn't mean that they are not twists.
These are some really basic suggestions, but they will help craft a better scenario. Writing things out in outline before even jumping into the Foundry is suggested, but not required. It just help to maintain a cohesive story and make sure it doesn't ramble. Thanks for taking the time to read. I hope you found it beneficial.
Visit Forgotten Realms Wiki and Neverwinter Wiki for help in lore and background.
Post edited by thylbanus on
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Comments
I can't start a thread so I will ask you....
While I am new to this Foundry/Game, I have built entire PW's in Neverwinter Nights. And well, i find myself constricted to simple mind numbing tasks lead by a beam of light allowing one to not read or think. While my crativity is working around that, i have some questions for you. So far i have built one mini quest, and starting a second. I haven't published any yet. Neither of them are hack n slash, though i did sneak some. I am still looking for a list of dialog commands. Like [playername] the nickname thing doesn't work?
Does a campaign offer more choices and options in your build?
Is it possible to truly fail something? So it goes away from objective as failed.....
Is there really no game given OR?
On point two though, understand your materiel some leniency should be afforded. I came to Neverwinter from an mmo background rather than a D&D background. The Lore is huge and although I have done much in the way of reading I have still only scratched the service.
I put some Devil's into my Into the underworld quest. I now know, or at least think that they belong in the Astral Sea, but I wasn't to know and it seemed logical to me. I think many authors are in the same boat as me.
To be honest I have enjoyed reading the Lore as much as I have making the quests I only wish I could make quests as fast as I can read and ideas pop into my head.
Solid advice!
We do have a good amount of very good foundries that subscribe to your ideals, though not all are cut from the same cloth.
I'm in your boat - I love a good story (twists and all) with good villains and plot.
In the sea of players though, quite a few just like to mash and kill, so there will forever be the (as you say) Kobayashi Maru variety.
The key is finding the appropriate audience. Maybe in your own searches, try looking for the Story tags ... I know, not ideal right now. The searches are alright (I can find mine by doing a search for "character development") as long as the authors are specific enough in the quest descriptions.
That said, I love your advice, and do hope that some aspiring authors take it in.
Thanks.
Then to add to the good advice..... I stay away from long paragraphs and lengthy speeches. Break it up into a conversation or distribute the info across several NPC's. Flow of the story is just as important as the story.
Now, the only question is how to deal with: Pit of Spiders, Pit of Imps, Pit of Ogres, Pit of ...
And, there "can be" OR conditionals, as well as multi-sourced AND conditionals...
How to handle OR:
At an undisclosed, secret location below ground (within 256' of the PC of course)...
AorB - Single Drow Assassin, Appear When Immediately
A - Friendly Adventurer Fighter, Appear When Condition "A" (Reach marker, dialog reached, killed objective, etc)
B - Friendly Adventurer Fighter, Appear When Condition "B" (...as needed like "A").
OR Trigger = AorB Encounter Complete
Cost: 1 mob for OR trigger, 2+ mobs for conditionals
How to handle multiple different AND events:
AandBandC - Single Drow Assassin, Appear When Immediately
WallA - Appear When Immediately, Disappear When Condition "A" (...as above, any complete condition)
WallB - Appear When Immediately, Disappear When Condition "B" (...as above, any complete condition)
WallC - Appear When Immediately, Disappear When Condition "C" (...as above, any complete condition)
KillZone - Hard Friendly Mob, Appear When Immediately
Cost: 1 mob for AND trigger, 2+ wall separators for conditional completions.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Actually, the OR I am looking for is to help this man, Or help that man. Solve the situation this way Or this other way, and OR do both.
The bothersome aspect is if the player chooses path A the quest stream negates the other options or points them out as must completes. There is no positive fail. So to have a conversation with a thievery avenue and a good avenue, or a Magic user response vs a sword user response.
The OR workaround I described above allows you to do that -- you have to make the OR Trigger "AorB" encounter complete be the story objective however. The other tricky thing to know about story objectives is that any encounter tied to them spawns immediately when the objective is in progress.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
noun: verisimilitude 1. the appearance of being true or real.
Both Dungeon Ecology and Verisimilitude are concepts covered in my version of the DM's guide. Both dungeon ecology and verisimilitude are like the bass line of a song. You only notice them if they're bad.
Don't be a Dr. Evil. Is you antagonist simply sitting at the end of labyrinth of traps and monsters whose sole purpose is to be killed by the protagonist? If so, you have made a mistake.
You have a massive underground dungeon? How do it's inhabitants eat? breath? sleep? If you have not considered these things, you have made a mistake.
The first NPC in your quest has four full pages of unbroken text with one player response each? You have made a mistake. Think of how people speak in reality, do they make grand proclamations in eloquent flowery speech? Think of each NPC speech bubble as a tweet and remember, brevity is the soul of wit. Give your players more than one response.
The OP mentions motivation, and rightly so. But motivation is bound to character. NPC = non player CHARACTER. Google character development or writing in character.
In writing this I realize Cryptic has made some "mistakes" in the original campaign. They have done so because they know their customers. People who play MMOs are NOT role players in the traditional sense. They like to grind for gear, collect vanity items and trash talk in general chat. They do not sit around and pretend they are the outcast son of an Eshpurta merchant who wants to be a magic user, or a nature loving druid who is trying to curb the destruction of an ancient grove of elm trees.
Regardless, if you consider Dungeon Ecology and Verisimilitude during your quest construction, that brand of player will enjoy those things without being aware of them and the more traditional brand of Role Player will appreciate it too.
1. Nature of the beast: pure story and logic with multiple mocks with own motivation.
2. Tears of Selune: lore friendly well constructed.
3. And Justice for All: mine with heavy use of lore final chapter almost complete.
4. Lands of Mirent Tusk: smart dungeons that make sense
5. The path of silver. This is buried but a great trip to chult really great maps.
6. Bride of ygguloi: lore based unreal maps that make every other author step up their game.
7. Campaign: Tales from Baldurs Gate: another great campaign that deserves tons of plays.
These are just a few of the great ones that deserve some time and followed your well stated rules. Give them a shot and you'll see the real hard workers in the foundry author community.
Very true. There are 2 forms of Role play. Most MMO players are familiar with Tank, Healer, Mage, and Mezzer roles. All playing their role a formidable foe can be vanquished. And the other old school form of Role play, staying in character and acting out the role of your character's personality as well as his honed abilities.
While all the above may sound like we are saying you should cater to the old school role player style, utilizing the basics is using simple story writing rules learned in English class. A good module plays like a good movie or good book. Ups and downs, action and drama, with a climax and resolution near the end. And a good twist at the end where they all fall into a pit of monsters and have 48hrs to fight their way out... with the proper introduction and lead in, could be fun. LOL
Us authors can cater to one or both. I hope none reading this are thinking we are saying build like me, we are not. A good foundation is universal to all styles of building. For the builders of the "Pits of..." and "Mr. Show's Gauntlet Extravaganza" one could improve upon such simple styles of building by just taking into account combat rolls and tactical positioning. If you don't want to spend much time in story and lore, make up for it in the combat presentations. Realistic reasons for the fight, interesting battlefields, etc... as mentioned by the OP and others. Spend more time in setting up patrols and wandering encounters and the lay out of the battlefield.
Learn new tricks from each build and improve on the next. If its not fun to build, it wont be fun to play.
The points on dungeon ecology and verisimilitude are good points and play into my topics quite well. As for the lore, I posted links for anyone to hop in and enjoy. While there is a MASSIVE amount to digest, at least you can pull up what you want to write about and how each interact. I also agree that we CAN play to both the purist as well as the casual gamer who has NO CLUE about D&D or Forgotten Realm lore. That's the cool part, actually. We will seem so much cooler IF we use all that lore to flesh out the world that Perfect World failed to cover. The layman players will just be floored by how much we "developed" for our adventures.
We don't have to do it all at once (digestible, after all), but if we all do a little better, some of the 4 stars that people are getting for really HAMSTER adventures will start getting the lower ratings they should be getting. I've now played 17 4+ star rated adventures (many Foundry features) and scored one a 3 (it was kinda funny. A LOT of 80's movies innuendo) and another a 4 (plus tipped), the rest all 1s (and 1 reported for a violation). Either they were just meat grinders without any point, or they were just ridiculous. I thought one was attempting humor, but it was nothing more than a diatribe that I ended up reporting.
A well written adventure will appeal to EVERY player. The lessons learned on the table top directly translate to the electronic media we have now. The media may change, but the rules stay the same. Like any other study, artist still have the same rules that guide them from the time of Michealangelo to today's visual artists using computers. The concepts laid out by Mozart are used by Metallica. Sun Tzu is STILL required reading at almost every military academy in the world. Use the knowledge of the past to build upon. It's how we advance our craft.
Just remember the foundry has its limits. You cannot branch your story arc without using dialogue scripting. You have one story line so if your trying to give players options use reach points, item acquire objectives and play with multiple dialogue branches.
You seem like a gifted author, but many players frankly skip the text, so keep your story mission playable if possible without reading everything.
Most important enjoy the process and be patient about getting plays.
Good luck
Diversity
Yes try to be aware of beastial/racial traits and habits but be aware that most of the great characters in stories broke the mould and the greatest foes usually did something surprising (tho baddies tend to be predictable and follow the tired old pattern of engineering their own downfall *sigh*).
Digestable doesn't mean scattergun
Yes, don't deliver lore (or story or advice or...) through one fixed mechanism but that doesn't exclude having 1 npc as the gotoguy on lore. A wizard has better control; a loregiver gives better.....
The campaign I'm working on looks like it will be 9 adventures and has at its core 3 support npcs: a bard who provides the motivation and advice; a sage who provides lore or as I would prefer to put it 'meaning'; and a cleric who provides the glue for the group. By half-way through adventure 2 those roles should be clear and those observant players that notice them and want to use them can. (Ofc they are more complex but....)
Remember, unlike a book the foundry can't be picked up and a page skipped to to check a detail....that's why I'll always have an optional 'summary' npc at the beginning and end of an adventure to recap.
Know when to shut up ;p
For me the story is king but if someone wants to skip it I'll let them - its not failure. And if they go deeper in dialogue than they wanted I'll leave them an opt-out too. Some heros are heros because they don't stop to smell the flowers they just *wield weapon* *remove head* and *pocket reward*. Just because my bard has a 6 verse poem before the action starts doesn't mean everyone (or anyone) has to stand around and hear it. It was him who wasted his time writing it not me. ;p
Don't be rigid
When you develop a character don't stop. As the story proceeds they might further develop. Just because an action seems out of character it might just be that you don't know them as well as you thought. I've only part done 2 adventures and although my sage and cleric have been mostly true to plan my bard is almost unrecognisable to the one I thought I started with. (THis could equally lead back to diversity.)
I learned a Mechanic now how can I use it?
I've seen quite a few foundries lately that seem to have developed a story to use a new mechanic rather than the other way round. Most of those I didn't finish - I'm the show-off hero player not the author.
Audience
As a speech writer irl I'll bring one more thing to the discussion that I consider a major omission. Know your audience - speak to them. This game has more (and less) than pnp. More because its a graphical environment so no need to always spoon feed the mood or story to unwilling subjects, try to let the environment speak too rather than the DM. But you can't be reactive either so you need to be more accommodating, by design, to those that enter your world.
Rules were made by people who had none.
Edit: nearly forgot. If I was allowed only one request for what authors should not do its this - don't give my toon a history: no letters from father, no news of their sisters death, don't say where they came from, where they live or the like. They know their history.
Disagree with this, its why there are some titles that people hate and love. first one that comes to mind is dark souls/demon souls.
It goes to show that you rated many foundries 1 star, yet I'm sure ive played most of hte featured ones, and alot are definately not 1 star.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Perhaps new search functions need to be implemented that include, "Follows strict AND latest D&D guidelines based on so-and-so Wiki."
Many Authors spend countless hours creating works that people will hopefully enjoy. I've created a number of works in the past and am now just getting back into it. I've had some 1's and 2's and while they are disappointing to receive, they make me look at what I have created and try to make it better. Unfortunately, most of the time, the players that give this low of a score do not bother to say why they scored the work so low. I hope that if you are giving this low of a score for something that looks like much effort has been put in, you are at least giving a full review? However, honestly, if you are going to give a 1 or a 2, why even bother playing the quest to the end to give a score? If it's that bad, why not exit?
My main takeaway from this post was that it reminded me of 2 rules that I live by when building Quests/Worlds or whatever project I am on. It is a rule that I hope all aspiring hobbyist builders repeat to themselves when they feel like quitting.
1. Build something that YOU will really enjoy playing
2. ALWAYS REMEMBER: You can't please everyone. Do not try to, just follow rule 1.
To the OP. I really do hope you follow through and build something you feel is worthy and that you enjoy. However, I will guarantee you that even though it is perfect in your eyes and has followed every rule imagineable (D&D, Story, Character Building, etc etc) you will still get 1's and 2's and 3's.
I hope you follow my advice and work through it though.
NWS-DITF6RXSK - All Daily Qualified
Q1 - Dungeons of Mirent Tusk - 16 minutes Featured
Q2 - The Legend of Prince Brightblade - 30+m
Q3 - The Legend of The Lady - 30m
Q4 - Finding the Way -20m
Q5 - King Mirent Tusk - 50m
(Un)Academic Field Work Foundry Campaign: NWS-DAPZB2CTZ
This I completely agree with. However, there are so many stipulations/tags that one could add. "Not responsible for loot drops", "Based on so-and-so setting", "#'s", etc. We are allowed only 1000 characters.
As always, good advice from you.
NWS-DITF6RXSK - All Daily Qualified
Q1 - Dungeons of Mirent Tusk - 16 minutes Featured
Q2 - The Legend of Prince Brightblade - 30+m
Q3 - The Legend of The Lady - 30m
Q4 - Finding the Way -20m
Q5 - King Mirent Tusk - 50m
My YouTube Channel
A Comprehensive Review of Neverwinter <-- Read it!
I gave advice, but I am by no standard an expert at quest building. I liked the original intent of this thread, broad advice to help people develop their stories.
I received a review for my one paltry quest "It took me two hours" the reviewer said, he gave me two stars. That is fine, everybody is entitled to their opinion, but it seemed odd to me that he persevered for two hours through a 2 star quest. I have never given less than 3 stars, and would never do so. Why? Because if it lower quality, to me, then I drop the quest. I don't know about you, but I am not getting paid to do this, and I am not trying to trash people's work or hurt people's feelings.
Also, remember this, for when you complete your first quest, what comes around goes around. Those authors who you 1 starred may pay you back in like kind.
Be kind to each other,
Rock on.
Alleyslink
...and if it is a 1-2 star quest, if you can tell the author actually spent time creating it and not just dropping wave after wave of mobs on a nearly blank map -- try to PM them feedback on the issues that you felt were lacking. It could be a very young author, or someone with learning deficiencies. Even if you can't remember specifics -- any feedback can be helpful to an author.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
I needed to pull this out to highlight it.
VERY true.
I don't know what this disagreement has to do with translation from one media to another. If you are making something that goes against the lore, a warning is due. If you don't know what lore is, find out. It all will come back to: Know your material. As for the rest, if you make an adventure/campaign, be aware SOMEONE will not like it. Don't be offended. It WILL happen. If they leave commentary, evaluate it and if you find it invalid, discard it. Most of the time, it will make you better if you try to find a solution. As for quitting: NEVER do it. If it is so bad it makes you physically ill, continue to the end and comment on it. DO NOT STOP. Be constructive in the review and make sure your friends know about it so that they can play through and either confirm your opinion or debunk it. Plus this:
"Blade" is a comic book hero with it's own set of rules and guidelines. It stayed true to those precepts and really is a good example of doing so. Had "Blade" introduced vampires that sparkle, it would have violated it's own rules and people probably wouldn't have much cared for it. (as well as probably being a copyright violation) This allows me to bring up another point of contention I've found. Something that I do not necessarily have an answer to and I'd like to get some opinion and if a moderator could comment on: Bonus.
Copyright Infringement:
As Fair Use applies, I seem to find myself at a quandary. I don't much care for use of other people's ideas. It makes for to much of a grey area. But how do we advise those who DO? As we have seen MANY drow ranger's called Drizzt, does that constitute a violation? I know that when CoH/V was out, Marvel sued (unsuccessfully) NCSoft and Cryptic for copyright violation when some of it's members made heroes named after Marvel characters and/or used their likeness. Marvel tried another route and sued the creators of said characters and won.
So now much of our content has some sort of implied authorization to use, but what about other IP owners? Technically Drizzt and company are copyrights of both WotC and Robert Salvatore. Every time WotC makes a Drizzt figurine, poster, or paraphernalia, Mr. Salvatore gets paid. So how does that apply to us? Can I have Drizzt as an encounter for my players? How about ones that are sole IP of WotC? Elminster? Are the Greyhawk characters owned by WotC? Was Blackmoor included? How about Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser? Are they owned by WotC or did Leiber maintain the rights to that IP? What if I wanted to translate the entirety of "Temple of Elemental Evil" to this medium? Is that a violation?
There are a LOT of questions that I just cannot find and could lead to trouble. Not necessarily getting sued type trouble, but it kind of sucks that you spend hours upon hours making your adventure, only to have it taken down and deleted. No one want to spend hours or days crafting the "perfect" campaign and have nothing to show for it. Worse yet, get the ban hammer swung on them. If I made a Conan adventure, because Conan WAS a D&D license for a while, and either Funcom or Paradox Entertainment (the license holder for the name Conan the Barbarian) decided to make some waves with PWE, would I get banned because I didn't understand the whole copyright (Even Howard's works are in question, depending on the country)?
My advice, just don't do it, but if you want to. Make sure that you brush up on Fair Use. Many people claim to know what it is and end up paying the price for it.
Anywho, if a moderator or even a Dev could weigh in and give a list of things and characters that are (or are not) useable by the community, it would be awesome.
Agreed, copying is just one thing that I really don't much like. It demonstrates a lack of imagination and anyone with a lack of imagination has no reason to use the foundry. Just my opinion.
The ONLY exception is a parody. The idea then is to change everything but make it so obvious that it is funny.
e.g. Darth Vader = Dark Helmet
For an example of this you can take a look at my A magical Mystery Tour quest. It is full of parody in many forms.
As for the D&D setting, I would imagine that you can use places, Gods that sort of thing. But don't use characters. It's just another form of copying. That is not to say you can't reference. Reading a little about Drizzt Do'Urden in a book or being told about his exploits in a conversation is one thing and fine. It may even make me go and read up about him, but to directly bump into him maybe even help/fight him would just be wrong in my opinion.
(This is one on the reasons Star Wars went so wrong. George Lucas gave people the rights to write stories about his characters (often inviting them to do so) and then proceeded to take all that 'Lore' apart when he decided to make more movies. Boba Fett a clone...)
As a rule every rule can be broken, the defining difference will be excellence. So if you create a quest with Drizzt Do'Urden and it's only average then expect criticism. After all you may be pissing on someones idol.
As for Drizzt Do'Urden, a sorry excuse for a Drow, what next evil angels? Don't answer that.. :rolleyes:
Edit: Imagine if they put Dragons into the foundry, How many Black ones called Deathwing would there be? Yawn
Nah, they'd be far, faaaarrrr, FAR outnumbered by Pit of "Dragon, Black Medium 01"
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Red Wizards is an example. This game has a 'setting' date. There is a date that the organisation of Red Wizards of Thay ceased to exist as it did. Although I've not read some of the source that contributes to this lore this leaves us with the thought that a Red Wizards of Thay exists up to one point but ceases to exist as one at the next. Creative use of lore means that while the previous RWoT organisation is dismantled, there can still exist the motivations and personalities and abilities that made the organisation. When an organisation ceases to be there can still be a legacy - perhaps driven by progeny, protege or realm-based Thayan fanboys/girls etc. There might also have been breakaway/splinter groups from the original RWoT which may see the dismantling of the organisation as an opportunity and still be willing to trade on the back of the name. The King is dead, long live the King.
I know that my campaign uses the progeny idea and that my baddie is a character which attempted to form an sub-organisation outwith the RWoT structure, was expelled and then further 'punished' for failing to recognise the position of the Zulkirs. So while the RWoT do not play a part in my campaign they do play a part of the lore and....maybe.....my baddie unless foiled could become the new head of a Red Wizards of Thay (although he won't).
There is much in Realms lore that is contradictory - this can be taken as what is believed rather than factual - and much 'lore' can be allowed to exist for some characters which is contradictory because deception is part of the mechanic.
Lastly, bear in mind that dnd imo is there to free your imagination not constrain it and that lore came from fanciful stories and events that filled a hole (and was used to rewrite history or embellish it) and can be considered true........until proved otherwise. Whose to say that someone in the foundry might rewrite FR lore and become published, as canon, one day and look back to when their lore was considered illegitimate.
Be flexible, creative and forgiving
And better maybe just to ignore this.....just needed to be typing any sort of wall of text while I worked through a mechanic problem in my head (without focusing directly on it). >.<
I agree up to a point. If I played a quest where I was attacked by a heard of unicorns, flew around by a Dragon and the main good guy was Bane who had changed from the black hand to the white hand then it would not get a rating from me. I'm just saying.
To ignore the Lore is one thing, to change it is another, it may not bother some but it will others.
As for The Red Wizards, here is a quote from the Forgotten Realms wiki.
'By 1479 DR few individuals associated the name "Red Wizard" with Thay but instead with a loose confederacy of merchant arcanists and those who believed otherwise were, in fact, mistaken.'
So I would say Neverwinter are far from breaking their own Lore, although I freely admit I have played little of the story in Neverwinter.
Good point and exactly why they should NEVER put Dragons into the Foundry, I think I'm by and large the only one who feels that way.
Actually, only detail objects and NPCs would have that name, an encounter would probably just be "Black Dragon" or something like that. An NPC black dragon would have a weird name but most people doing something with dragons other than having them be an enemy is probably creative enough to change the name.
I simply meant the number of Dragons you would get. Dragons, despite the name D&D are very rare. Most people will never see one. Would be silly if every Tom, HAMSTER and Harry could put Dragons into their quests.
You would get them in the sewers, you would get them in the city. They would climb trees and they would be put in pits, you would have Dragon Army's, in fact if you can think of it it would be done. Almost every foundry quest would have one and as The Foundry quests are just about all I do it would be game breaking for me.
If it happens, which it won't everyone will see why it should not. So despite all the 'But it's Dungeons & DRAGONS posts, Cryptic have this one exactly as it should be. I said on another thread if you put in Dragons then you may as well also put in a ED-209 because that is how ridiculous it would become.