Admittedly I don't PVE much, but I have started doing some dungeons since moving from Complaints to Dulce. Even assuming this DC build will never be used in PVP, I'm perplexed by some of the choices here.
1. 3 points in Sooth - Why? Threat isn't really a problem in this game for DCs, and even if you do have some aggro, that's great! It helps take some pressure off your DPS and distributes the incoming damage so you can heal more effectively.
2. Ability Score Distribution - For PVE, I'd think that additional CHA and STR (or even INT or CON) would be more valuable than the high DEX roll that you have. This is especially true with STR if you are a faithful build for the extra stamina regen.
3. 3/5 Domain Synergy - You mention that you are aware of the criticism regarding this feat choice, and I have to agree with the masses. Move one point to Healing Action if you really dislike Holy Resolve so much! 3% Recovery really does nothing useful at all for your character.
4. Some gear/stats:
- I think High Prophet is by far the best PVE Set for the DPS boost it provides for your team. MH is nice, but unnecessary as you said. My understanding is that Grand Templar's 4/4 buff only lasts 5 seconds and has a 45 second cooldown. This seems like a waste.
-Why not use the ancient symbol/icon?
-Why only two artifacts?
-Why 64 Armor pen?
-Why only 659 regen? This stat really starts becoming useful around 1,000.
5. I'd put a couple points in divine advantage. This will mitigate quite a bit of damage in PVE since 90% of it is an add clusterf**k. Mobs will often have CA on you and your allies.
Thank you for reading. I'm at work right now so hard to answer some of your questions. I have something happening on the test server and there are a couple changes that will I will be making. I appreciate your mature constructive response.
Admittedly I don't PVE much, but I have started doing some dungeons since moving from Complaints to Dulce. Even assuming this DC build will never be used in PVP, I'm perplexed by some of the choices here.
1. 3 points in Sooth - Why? Threat isn't really a problem in this game for DCs, and even if you do have some aggro, that's great! It helps take some pressure off your DPS and distributes the incoming damage so you can heal more effectively.
2. Ability Score Distribution - For PVE, I'd think that additional CHA and STR (or even INT or CON) would be more valuable than the high DEX roll that you have. This is especially true with STR if you are a faithful build for the extra stamina regen.
3. 3/5 Domain Synergy - You mention that you are aware of the criticism regarding this feat choice, and I have to agree with the masses. Move one point to Healing Action if you really dislike Holy Resolve so much! 3% Recovery really does nothing useful at all for your character.
4. Some gear/stats:
- I think High Prophet is by far the best PVE Set for the DPS boost it provides for your team. MH is nice, but unnecessary as you said. My understanding is that Grand Templar's 4/4 buff only lasts 5 seconds and has a 45 second cooldown. This seems like a waste.
-Why not use the ancient symbol/icon?
-Why only two artifacts?
-Why 64 Armor pen?
-Why only 659 regen? This stat really starts becoming useful around 1,000.
5. I'd put a couple points in divine advantage. This will mitigate quite a bit of damage in PVE since 90% of it is an add clusterf**k. Mobs will often have CA on you and your allies.
Blessing knows her stuff well, and I tend to agree with what she says. No exceptions here, really. High Prophet is going to be the best contribution to the team that could conceivably finish the dungeon without you, while Miracle Healer is the best all-around support set. Naturally, a team that doesn't require you to support them heavily or to assume an off-tank role will benefit more from faster clear.
Quick note: I think Divine Advantage is very underrated. As DO it's even better for you personally since you can keep it up more or less permanently by slapping BotS on an Astral Sealed target now and then to keep receiving the buff while you do other things.
The other thing you're missing re: Holy resolve is
Soulforged: EXPENSIVE
Artifact: requires a lot of PvP, which if you mostly casually pug pvp (as a cleric) could take a while
Holy resolve? Available early, and for free. And there are (as noted) very few other decent alternatives.
I mean, I've been playing since beta, but I've yet to get either of the above coz..casual player with a full time job and stuff, whereas in the interim? Holy resolve has been there for me, maaan.
Assuming epic gear, and specific epic gear to boot, from the outset, is an ill-advised approach.
Well let's keep it positive and ask questions for learning not criticism. I'm sure there are a variety of builds that work for different people and play styles.
And I'm ok with this guide evolving as the discussion continues. So try to keep it supportive and not arguing.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
Well let's keep it positive and ask questions for learning not criticism. I'm sure there are a variety of builds that work for different people and play styles.
And I'm ok with this guide evolving as the discussion continues. So try to keep it supportive and not arguing.
I will say that the OP has been very good about not taking criticism poorly and has helped keep the discussion generally positive.
I think that where some threads like this go horribly wrong is when people see "I disagree with this point your build" and read it as "You must be a bad player". Some people (not the OP, evidently get very touchy about even well-intentioned criticism. Kudos.
The thing about this "guide" is that I am worried it will mislead new clerics into thinking what are good feats/armor sets etc. I encourage people to not follow guides because there is no "right way" to play a DC, because there are so many playstyles. However, I don't see any reasoning behind some of your build choices so I can't support this guide as much as others...
The thing about this "guide" is that I am worried it will mislead new clerics into thinking what are good feats/armor sets etc. I encourage people to not follow guides because there is no "right way" to play a DC, because there are so many playstyles. However, I don't see any reasoning behind some of your build choices so I can't support this guide as much as others...
Yup, once i suffered from reading a uncompleted/some big mistakes guide, making me reroll my DC several times and now i am making my 5th DC to try new play styles instead. Remember once dunno who posted 5/5 initiate in faith or 5/5 domain synergy or some points in templar domain for dps build, after a month only someone said they are useless, since i don't want to buy zen to repair such small but big silly mistake, i deleted 2 DC of mine, both human with caturday survivor title, one at lvl 54 another at lvl 45. Hope no new cleric will take those "epic" feats, or epic "sooth" again.
Yup, once i suffered from reading a uncompleted/some big mistakes guide, making me reroll my DC several times and now i am making my 5th DC to try new play styles instead. Remember once dunno who posted 5/5 initiate in faith or 5/5 domain synergy or some points in templar domain for dps build, after a month only someone said they are useless, since i don't want to buy zen to repair such small but big silly mistake, i deleted 2 DC of mine, both human with caturday survivor title, one at lvl 54 another at lvl 45. Hope no new cleric will take those "epic" feats, or epic "sooth" again.
This is why I bother to comment at all when a player posts a build/guide. A lot of decisions come down to matter of preference, and there is no "wrong" way to play as far as that goes, but since there are some glaringly poor choices available to DCs, I think it's important to call them out so that players know what they are in for if they make said choices.
The reason you don't find a huge variety in popular DC builds is that there are far too many <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> feats and powers and comparatively few decent ones. Some choices can politely be considered "niche", but others are just plain bad. What were the devs thinking when they came up with Initiate of the Faith, for example? Sooth(e)? And how about Healing Action being a sort of bait-and-switch where it offers virtually no additional benefit for a full 5 point investment? A little off-topic, but a rework of DC feats and powers is seriously overdue.
I am still thinking, if i don't use crit should i go for 5/5 Healing Action or keep my standard 3/3 Repurpose Soul and 2/5 Bountiful Fortune. Waiting Gctrl to come back~ Gctrl where you~~~
Healing Action affects key AP generating powers like Soothing Light and Healing Word. Two castings of Healing Word and 8 Soothing Light ticks (or roughly 1 divinity bar) is roughly .7 extra AP with maxed Healing Action. Considering that we who actually rely on these powers tend to use them at every opportunity, and that all that extra AP can add up to a significant amount over time. The extra AP can also be considerable for builds that focus on AP generation, since it complements any other mechanic that grant you extra AP. A niche feat, basically.
Also, note that gone are the days when we could pull off 20+% AP gain Sunbursts. AFAIK Astral Shield gives us the most AP of all our powers (around 14%), and it has a ~14 second cooldown. These days AP gain builds go for quantity over quality.
The overall effect is nothing as dramatic as Repurpose Soul/Critical Weapon/1 point Cleanse, but it's there. I myself use up 1-2 bars for Soothing Light on most encounters, more for large pulls/boss fights. Given my current setup I'm pretty sure I'd rather be able to cast my daily earlier (and use more dailies over the entire course of a dungeon run) than get an extra 15% more HP just for myself every 5 mins.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
Repurpose soul is always going to be a better investment of points (if that's the alternative you're considering) because even with no real investment in crit it's not unusual to get 20-25% crit, so every 4th or 5th spell/attack will be chucking out repurp heals. They mount up pretty fast.
I am still thinking, if i don't use crit should i go for 5/5 Healing Action or keep my standard 3/3 Repurpose Soul and 2/5 Bountiful Fortune. Waiting Gctrl to come back~ Gctrl where you~~~
go repurpose soul and add some crit:p you'll cap on the offensive stats anyways so putting at least 2k in crit and using 3/3 repurpose will add some nice bonus healing
I think gctrl's playing counterstrike or something... >.<
Yeah, repurp heals can be great, even though (frustratingly) daunting light doesn't proc them (they'd be epic if it did). A crit divine glow for like, 4k on five of those little sharandar gimps gives you 600 HP x5, which is almost a semi-good burst heal. Outside of solo facetanking, given that you're usually outside of the action spamming the odd attack into the pack, every repurp proc is a very nice boost to the party, and honestly, even if the AP gain from healing action wasn't utter trash, AP gain is rarely a problem anyway.
The results on the test seem accurate enough (there appears to be some inconsistencies). Still, note that AP is not actually rounded up/down, and the AP meter only gives you an estimate. Going by the data, let's assume that the extra AP gain from HW with level 3 HA is .25 per Healing Word cast, since 1 HW cast = value rounded down (no change) and 2 HW casts = value rounded up (which means a gain of .5 or higher).
I'm pretty sure you know that people who rely on Healing Word use it on pretty much every CD, alternating between the divine and normal modes. If we go by the very conservative estimate of 6 HW casts per encounter (.25 x 6 = 1.5), and let's say there are 10 encounters before every boss (1.5 x 10 = 15), then going by the test results the person with just level 3 HA is going to have at least 15 more AP upon reaching the boss than the person with no HA. Adding any other AP generation mechanic and perhaps a starting AP of ~50% then by the time the person with HA reaches the boss then he may already have HG/DA ready.
Also note that clerics only have 100% AP dailies, which means your AP only actually matters if you've managed to reach 100%. For AP gain builds specifically, HA is only one mechanic - there will others like it complementing each other and guaranteeing that the cleric generates enough AP to be able to use daily after daily with as little downtime as possible. For these clerics, HA is even more important because for them the difference between having 1-99% and 100% AP is all the difference between a smooth run and a possible wipe. HA is also a solid % AP gain, which means it becomes even more valuable as your recovery hits diminishing returns.
Anyway we've only even started to discuss possibly a third to half of a dungeon or so, your overall AP gain will be higher. This is all with just level 3 HA (though the data above is merely a rough estimate - based on my experience, it should be higher).
Still, it should show that HA is obviously nothing like Initiate of the Faith or even Domain Synergy.
The latter two are relics of past age, from a time when items had multiple sockets (the number of sockets option in the AH and possibly a few items tucked away by some of the oldest players in the game are all that remains of it). The fact that these feats remain unchanged is an indication that socketing multiple enchantments for items is going to be re-implemented soon.
TLDR; HA rewards you in the long term, and for the right builds/playstyle the rewards are well worth it.
AP gain is not a problem only for clerics who use their dailies like they would use potions (ie. consider using when available, but especially for emergencies). For builds like mine, my daily is like my second Astral Shield. It has to be ready within a very specific time frame.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
Lots of updates coming. Obtained full Miracle Healer and have altered some things to compliment my new set. Stay tuned. Thank you everyone who helped me perfect my build.
Comments
Thank you for reading. I'm at work right now so hard to answer some of your questions. I have something happening on the test server and there are a couple changes that will I will be making. I appreciate your mature constructive response.
Halfling - Devoted Cleric - Divine Oracle
Neverwinter Tribunal
<Genocidal Tendencies>
www.genotendencies.enjin.com
Blessing knows her stuff well, and I tend to agree with what she says. No exceptions here, really. High Prophet is going to be the best contribution to the team that could conceivably finish the dungeon without you, while Miracle Healer is the best all-around support set. Naturally, a team that doesn't require you to support them heavily or to assume an off-tank role will benefit more from faster clear.
Quick note: I think Divine Advantage is very underrated. As DO it's even better for you personally since you can keep it up more or less permanently by slapping BotS on an Astral Sealed target now and then to keep receiving the buff while you do other things.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Soulforged: EXPENSIVE
Artifact: requires a lot of PvP, which if you mostly casually pug pvp (as a cleric) could take a while
Holy resolve? Available early, and for free. And there are (as noted) very few other decent alternatives.
I mean, I've been playing since beta, but I've yet to get either of the above coz..casual player with a full time job and stuff, whereas in the interim? Holy resolve has been there for me, maaan.
Assuming epic gear, and specific epic gear to boot, from the outset, is an ill-advised approach.
And I'm ok with this guide evolving as the discussion continues. So try to keep it supportive and not arguing.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
I will say that the OP has been very good about not taking criticism poorly and has helped keep the discussion generally positive.
I think that where some threads like this go horribly wrong is when people see "I disagree with this point your build" and read it as "You must be a bad player". Some people (not the OP, evidently
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Yup, once i suffered from reading a uncompleted/some big mistakes guide, making me reroll my DC several times and now i am making my 5th DC to try new play styles instead. Remember once dunno who posted 5/5 initiate in faith or 5/5 domain synergy or some points in templar domain for dps build, after a month only someone said they are useless, since i don't want to buy zen to repair such small but big silly mistake, i deleted 2 DC of mine, both human with caturday survivor title, one at lvl 54 another at lvl 45. Hope no new cleric will take those "epic" feats, or epic "sooth" again.
This is why I bother to comment at all when a player posts a build/guide. A lot of decisions come down to matter of preference, and there is no "wrong" way to play as far as that goes, but since there are some glaringly poor choices available to DCs, I think it's important to call them out so that players know what they are in for if they make said choices.
The reason you don't find a huge variety in popular DC builds is that there are far too many <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> feats and powers and comparatively few decent ones. Some choices can politely be considered "niche", but others are just plain bad. What were the devs thinking when they came up with Initiate of the Faith, for example? Sooth(e)? And how about Healing Action being a sort of bait-and-switch where it offers virtually no additional benefit for a full 5 point investment? A little off-topic, but a rework of DC feats and powers is seriously overdue.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Also, note that gone are the days when we could pull off 20+% AP gain Sunbursts. AFAIK Astral Shield gives us the most AP of all our powers (around 14%), and it has a ~14 second cooldown. These days AP gain builds go for quantity over quality.
The overall effect is nothing as dramatic as Repurpose Soul/Critical Weapon/1 point Cleanse, but it's there. I myself use up 1-2 bars for Soothing Light on most encounters, more for large pulls/boss fights. Given my current setup I'm pretty sure I'd rather be able to cast my daily earlier (and use more dailies over the entire course of a dungeon run) than get an extra 15% more HP just for myself every 5 mins.
http://clericguide.com/healing-action/
Healing action simply isn't worth it.
Repurpose soul is always going to be a better investment of points (if that's the alternative you're considering) because even with no real investment in crit it's not unusual to get 20-25% crit, so every 4th or 5th spell/attack will be chucking out repurp heals. They mount up pretty fast.
I think gctrl's playing counterstrike or something... >.<
I'm pretty sure you know that people who rely on Healing Word use it on pretty much every CD, alternating between the divine and normal modes. If we go by the very conservative estimate of 6 HW casts per encounter (.25 x 6 = 1.5), and let's say there are 10 encounters before every boss (1.5 x 10 = 15), then going by the test results the person with just level 3 HA is going to have at least 15 more AP upon reaching the boss than the person with no HA. Adding any other AP generation mechanic and perhaps a starting AP of ~50% then by the time the person with HA reaches the boss then he may already have HG/DA ready.
Also note that clerics only have 100% AP dailies, which means your AP only actually matters if you've managed to reach 100%. For AP gain builds specifically, HA is only one mechanic - there will others like it complementing each other and guaranteeing that the cleric generates enough AP to be able to use daily after daily with as little downtime as possible. For these clerics, HA is even more important because for them the difference between having 1-99% and 100% AP is all the difference between a smooth run and a possible wipe. HA is also a solid % AP gain, which means it becomes even more valuable as your recovery hits diminishing returns.
Anyway we've only even started to discuss possibly a third to half of a dungeon or so, your overall AP gain will be higher. This is all with just level 3 HA (though the data above is merely a rough estimate - based on my experience, it should be higher).
Still, it should show that HA is obviously nothing like Initiate of the Faith or even Domain Synergy.
The latter two are relics of past age, from a time when items had multiple sockets (the number of sockets option in the AH and possibly a few items tucked away by some of the oldest players in the game are all that remains of it). The fact that these feats remain unchanged is an indication that socketing multiple enchantments for items is going to be re-implemented soon.
TLDR; HA rewards you in the long term, and for the right builds/playstyle the rewards are well worth it.
AP gain is not a problem only for clerics who use their dailies like they would use potions (ie. consider using when available, but especially for emergencies). For builds like mine, my daily is like my second Astral Shield. It has to be ready within a very specific time frame.
Halfling - Devoted Cleric - Divine Oracle
Neverwinter Tribunal
<Genocidal Tendencies>
www.genotendencies.enjin.com
i like your guide, can i add it to mmominds.com?????
Absolutely. Thank you.
Halfling - Devoted Cleric - Divine Oracle
Neverwinter Tribunal
<Genocidal Tendencies>
www.genotendencies.enjin.com
Halfling - Devoted Cleric - Divine Oracle
Neverwinter Tribunal
<Genocidal Tendencies>
www.genotendencies.enjin.com