Alternative methods of upgrading companions

tharkan

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere, but I think there should be more than one method of upgrading companions.

Maybe we could add in a coin option, a zen option, and a sword coast adventure reward option. The amount of coin being somewhat significant without being too ridiculous (e.g. 1 gold for white to green, 5 for green to blue, and 10 for blue to purple), the amount of zen would be probably fairly small, and the sword coast adventure would obviously be extremely challenging. I would probably rate the methods as such, with numbers going higher representing higher "costs" (a relative term given that the sword coast adventure method wouldn't cost any zen, coin, or diamonds, but be very challenging, but worth it if you don't have or want to spend any coin, zen, or diamonds):

1. Zen
2. Astral Diamonds
3. Coin
4. Sword Coast Adventures

mrspuma

I like the Sword Coast idea, but I doubt it'll happen. They want the AD motivation/sink. But you could set it up as a series of "upgrade" dungeons that one would have to do many many times for a companion to go from even white to green. eg. a pretty major time sink.

Gold won't happen either, at least not for that low, seeing as how lvl 60's can make 5g while blowing their noses and drinking tea. If they decided they wanted a gold sink for some reason, 1000/1500/2000 gold per upgrade would be more likely. Haha.

Basically, being a f2p model game, I highly doubt they'll make it so people can upgrade their pets easily/without high cost. At best they'd lower the AD cost a bit at some point.

tickdoff

Allow SCA to drop a "token" for a 10% reduction in upgrade cost. Make it the same drop chance as the "Lightfoot Thief" but allow it to drop from other missions or possibly a special mission that only becomes available at certain times (once a week maybe?). Allow a MAX of 5 tokens at once, for a 50% reduction in the AD cost of an upgrade.

That allows people to play the new content/game for a meaningful reward, keeps an AD sink in place, allows for people to continue to spend Zen to speed things up and provides incentives for people to look at upgrading their companions.

sokarrostau

tickdoff wrote: »

Allow SCA to drop a "token" for a 10% reduction in upgrade cost. Make it the same drop chance as the "Lightfoot Thief" but allow it to drop from other missions or possibly a special mission that only becomes available at certain times (once a week maybe?). Allow a MAX of 5 tokens at once, for a 50% reduction in the AD cost of an upgrade.

That allows people to play the new content/game for a meaningful reward, keeps an AD sink in place, allows for people to continue to spend Zen to speed things up and provides incentives for people to look at upgrading their companions.

Excellent idea.

genrldestruction

tickdoff wrote: »

That allows people to play the new content/game for a meaningful reward, keeps an AD sink in place, allows for people to continue to spend Zen to speed things up and provides incentives for people to look at upgrading their companions.

Well, coming from the fingers of a fairly new player, I think that the AD cost of the upgrade is not so much the issue as AD availability/generation. I'm not in a guild and I have no desire to be in one, so quite a few of the ways to gain AD are unavailable to me (Gauntlygrym Dailies). I don't play MMOs to do PvP, so the Daily PvP quests are unavailable to me. That leaves a daily dungeon quest, a daily foundry quest, invocation, and lord neverember's random quest. If I get lucky, I might be able to scrounge 10k a day, but most days its around 3k, mostly because the time investment to reward ratio for the dailies I could run doesn't seem high enough. 4 foundry missions (Minimum an hour, probably closer to 2) rewards 2000 AD. Or about 500 AD for 15 minutes.

For a comparison, I go play Star Trek Online, I do one (1) 15 minute foundry mission, I get 2100 Dilithium Ore for the first mission/day (conversion would put this around 6.3k unrefined AD). I get slightly more if it is a longer mission/featured. If I'm in a grinding mood, it takes about 2-3 hours of dailies to get to and exceed the refinement cap of 8000.

If I'm scrounging 3k AD a day, that will take me 1000 (2.7 years) days to upgrade 1 pet from white to green, assuming I don't have to spend any on anything else. If I could actually come close to 24k in a reasonable amount of time (The two to three hour range) without having to play content I don't want to (PvP, Doing the same thing every day), it should take about 2 weeks.

Players are like rats in the maze. They don't care they're in the maze as long as there is cheese at the end. I feel like there is not enough cheese at the end. The maze is still new, so I still play. Once I get hungry, I'll go somewhere they give me enough cheese.

Some changes that could be made to make things a little better (IMO):

* Boss kills reward AD. Applies to lairs and dungeons. Doesn't have to be much, but it needs to be enough. The "going rate" in STO is 480 Dilithium for 15 minutes of play. Kill a boss in a dungeon (3 bosses, 45 minutes), get 1000-1500 AD. (3k-4.5k for the whole run). Lairs could give less because they can be soloed.
* Lair Daily missions: Complete any #(4?) lairs, give AD. Opens up a leveled version of the lairs on the leveling maps for replay.
* Salvage items of lower quality than epic. Any "magic" item (Green or better) should be salvageable. Epics should guarantee AD, and the less ranks should have a chance at AD. Salvage should give refinement/enchantment items or crafting materials.
* Bump up the rewards on the dailies. If something is expected to take 15 minutes, it should be giving (IMO) at least 1400 AD. If something is expected to take an hour, it should give accordingly.
* Lord Neverember should have 2 daily quests per day; one PvP and one PvE. The rewards should be equalized. Alternately, make it one quest that is "Complete # PVE missions or # PVP Missions" or something like that.
* Foundry dailies: Since missions can range from 15 minutes to well over an hour, the completion for the daily should scale based on the amount of time it takes to complete. Otherwise you end up looking for four 15 minute missions that you've already done rather than looking for new ones that might take longer but more fun. Better yet, go with the STO model and reward AD for completing a foundry mission rather than having a wrapper. Slow it down a little by making it 1 reward per hour, like STO.

On the topic of an item that drops to reduce AD costs, I'm all for it. Make it apply to companions and mounts.

aumer1

genrldestruction wrote: »

Well, coming from the fingers of a fairly new player, I think that the AD cost of the upgrade is not so much the issue as AD availability/generation. I'm not in a guild and I have no desire to be in one, so quite a few of the ways to gain AD are unavailable to me (Gauntlygrym Dailies). I don't play MMOs to do PvP, so the Daily PvP quests are unavailable to me. That leaves a daily dungeon quest, a daily foundry quest, invocation, and lord neverember's random quest. If I get lucky, I might be able to scrounge 10k a day, but most days its around 3k, mostly because the time investment to reward ratio for the dailies I could run doesn't seem high enough. 4 foundry missions (Minimum an hour, probably closer to 2) rewards 2000 AD. Or about 500 AD for 15 minutes.

For a comparison, I go play Star Trek Online, I do one (1) 15 minute foundry mission, I get 2100 Dilithium Ore for the first mission/day (conversion would put this around 6.3k unrefined AD). I get slightly more if it is a longer mission/featured. If I'm in a grinding mood, it takes about 2-3 hours of dailies to get to and exceed the refinement cap of 8000.

If I'm scrounging 3k AD a day, that will take me 1000 (2.7 years) days to upgrade 1 pet from white to green, assuming I don't have to spend any on anything else. If I could actually come close to 24k in a reasonable amount of time (The two to three hour range) without having to play content I don't want to (PvP, Doing the same thing every day), it should take about 2 weeks.

Players are like rats in the maze. They don't care they're in the maze as long as there is cheese at the end. I feel like there is not enough cheese at the end. The maze is still new, so I still play. Once I get hungry, I'll go somewhere they give me enough cheese.

Some changes that could be made to make things a little better (IMO):

* Boss kills reward AD. Applies to lairs and dungeons. Doesn't have to be much, but it needs to be enough. The "going rate" in STO is 480 Dilithium for 15 minutes of play. Kill a boss in a dungeon (3 bosses, 45 minutes), get 1000-1500 AD. (3k-4.5k for the whole run). Lairs could give less because they can be soloed.
* Lair Daily missions: Complete any #(4?) lairs, give AD. Opens up a leveled version of the lairs on the leveling maps for replay.
* Salvage items of lower quality than epic. Any "magic" item (Green or better) should be salvageable. Epics should guarantee AD, and the less ranks should have a chance at AD. Salvage should give refinement/enchantment items or crafting materials.
* Bump up the rewards on the dailies. If something is expected to take 15 minutes, it should be giving (IMO) at least 1400 AD. If something is expected to take an hour, it should give accordingly.
* Lord Neverember should have 2 daily quests per day; one PvP and one PvE. The rewards should be equalized. Alternately, make it one quest that is "Complete # PVE missions or # PVP Missions" or something like that.
* Foundry dailies: Since missions can range from 15 minutes to well over an hour, the completion for the daily should scale based on the amount of time it takes to complete. Otherwise you end up looking for four 15 minute missions that you've already done rather than looking for new ones that might take longer but more fun. Better yet, go with the STO model and reward AD for completing a foundry mission rather than having a wrapper. Slow it down a little by making it 1 reward per hour, like STO.

On the topic of an item that drops to reduce AD costs, I'm all for it. Make it apply to companions and mounts.

Now this is a great idea.

mrspuma

It would definitely be nice if there were more alternative ways to gain a moderate/decent amount of AD over time than PvP, running Daily group dungeons to try and get things to sell on the AH/please Rhix, and/or creating small armies of Leadership alts. The last being what I, also a largely solo/non-Guild player, ended up doing because it seemed the most efficient method (for my time, gaming energy, and a small amount of Zen for chr. slots). Which still took months, btw. Something else that wasn't so removed from the actual game would be a nice change of pace. But if not...well, it's an MMO after all. I do understand why it doesn't cater as much to solo-preferring players.

tickdoff wrote: »

Allow SCA to drop a "token" for a 10% reduction in upgrade cost. Make it the same drop chance as the "Lightfoot Thief" but allow it to drop from other missions or possibly a special mission that only becomes available at certain times (once a week maybe?). Allow a MAX of 5 tokens at once, for a 50% reduction in the AD cost of an upgrade.

That allows people to play the new content/game for a meaningful reward, keeps an AD sink in place, allows for people to continue to spend Zen to speed things up and provides incentives for people to look at upgrading their companions.

I also agree that this - or some variation on it - isn't a bad idea at all.

mconosrep

genrldestruction wrote: »

If I'm scrounging 3k AD a day, that will take me 1000 (2.7 years) days to upgrade 1 pet from white to green, assuming I don't have to spend any on anything else. If I could actually come close to 24k in a reasonable amount of time (The two to three hour range) without having to play content I don't want to (PvP, Doing the same thing every day), it should take about 2 weeks.

While initially very time-consuming to level, consider raising your Leadership profession. It is really nice when you hit 20 as you can get 6K and some gold every 12 hours.

vasdamas

Zen maybe but not anything else. As someone said previously it isthe greatest AD sink in the game.

genrldestruction

mconosrep wrote: »

While initially very time-consuming to level, consider raising your Leadership profession. It is really nice when you hit 20 as you can get 6K and some gold every 12 hours.

Leadership is rank 11 on my main, and slowly getting higher. Alt is right around 7 or 8. It is a little frustrating (to me) that this is really the most viable and reliable way of getting AD. As I said before, there should be more (active) ways. For the longevity of the game and player retention (The longer someone plays a game, the more attached they become, the more willing they are to buy zen/give money to the developer) there needs to be a better alternative than picking up what seems like paltry amounts of diamonds for too much effort. I want to play the game to have fun. If I have to grind several hours a day and check gateway every few hours, and still not feeling like I'm making headway, makes it seem less fun and more like a second job. If I wanted a second job, I'd get one.

khimera906

mconosrep wrote: »

While initially very time-consuming to level, consider raising your Leadership profession. It is really nice when you hit 20 as you can get 6K and some gold every 12 hours.

^Wise words. Having Leadership at level 20 will help you a lot in reaching that 24k limit for refining AD.

xxmantaraxx

10 bucks a paycheck to speed things up is worth it to some. I mean with AD to zen ratio being near 450 lately your getting close to 900, 000k for 20usd. For me I like to grind certain things, my blue stone for example, but I have no problem staying in on a Saturday and spending some money here instead of blowing it on over priced beer at some <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> bar.

pitshade

There are tons of ways to make AD while soloing. Find ways to turn your gold into AD. Farm lower level (Velosck to the Chasm) for blue items and auction them (higher level ones don't sell as well when people are saving up for level 60 items) Farm enchants in Sharandar/Dread Ring and auction them. It takes a bit of research, some luck and legwork but doesn't require a group and can easily pay better than running dailies.

ironyoga

xxmantaraxx wrote: »

but I have no problem staying in on a Saturday and spending some money here instead of blowing it on over priced beer at some <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> bar.

You're going to the wrong bar then mate but seriously you can spend maybe 20 minutes in the AH a day and make way more than you ever will grinding dailies. Of course I don't mean to say don't do them just look for items you can bid out at a good profit or buy and resell. You wouldn't believe some of the auctions I have won under 20 AD then went and resold for upwards or 45k AD all because people don't price items properly. Either that or take them to the Disenchant station and gain AD's that way. Either way there are ways to not spend money in this game and make a decent amount of AD. You do have to put in some time on them but the AH is by far the fastest and by no means do you need to spend all day on it.

insanekirby

I really like this idea. Upgrading the quality of the pets should be possible through doing dungeons. I would say one way that would be hard to do would be to take the pet you wanted upgraded at its current maxed level, let's use 15 for a white companion as an example, and have that pet beat the final boss of a dungeon. The t6 dungeon boss would be a virtual impossibility with a white pet. Not to mention your party wouldn't survive long enough to get to that situation. So it would be very very hard to do it this way, but at least it gives the players some options.

inquisitorrahl

I think the main source of income for AD is supposed to be AH honestly. Call my crazy(I am) but yeah...sell those blues and chants.

bendalek

You know it probably would be more useful for companions to continue to accrue XP even after they reached their level cap ... At least that way, once you get to higher levels (and especially for those at lvl 60) once you had saved up the AD to be able to afford the upgrade you wouldn't then have a lvl 15 companion and have to 'babysit' them until they reached the higher level ...

Either that or create an "XP Pool" item or perhaps a "Tome of Knowledge" Artifact for lvl 60 players, that could be "fed" or "Charged" with XP, so that when/if you get a new Companion, you could spend the XP you get from Dailies, Campaigns and Invoking on whatever companion you choose, = whenever the item or Artifact is active, all XP goes into it instead of being wasted ...

I get so annoyed with myself when I forget to summon a lower level companion before handing in my Shar. and DR Dailies for instance, to give them the XP instead of the lvl 30 companion who don't need it any more ... It would also give some actual use for the XP that you get from these things, because currently it really serves no other purpose ... Even better if you could use it on the Gateway/SCA, as currently, you need a lvl 30 companion to finish many of the dungeons, but then they don't need XP, so whats the point? IF you could "share" that XP to another Companion through the use of a purchasable item though ...

khalith01

The AD cost is a little extreme. 100k for green, 300k for blue, 500k for epic would be much more reasonable.

Also, I believe we should be able to get at least 1 epic companion strictly through leveling. At X level give a single upgrade item for one companion.

Level 30 can upgrade one white to a green, level 50 one green to a blue, level 60 one blue to an epic. Now mind, I am in no ways asking for a full active slot set of epic companions just from leveling, but I do believe that players should be able to get at least one.

ryugasirius

I don't really get the companion upgrade prices. White to green is 300k AD (iirc), but you can get 3 green companions for that price (the pig, the renegade evoker and the blink dog are all around 100k on AH, at some point you could get some green companions for as low as 30k). The rust monster (purple) sells for 400k, you can buy 4 of them for the price of upgrading one white to purple. More purples are there around the 5-600k mark (the fire archon and the phoera).

Even if you compare upgrade prices to actual zen store, the price of upgrading white to purple (1.600k AD iirc, it's roughly 3800-4000 zen) is more than the average zen store cost of a purple companion (3500), and it adds the hassle of doing upgrades manually.

What I do not support, though, is adding too many AD sources ingame. Inflation is bad and it shouldn't happen or the whole economy (and the game) goes downwards.

willsommers

Also, I believe we should be able to get at least 1 epic companion strictly through leveling

I don't agree with this, but I do believe there should be some way accessible to all to get a purple companion through playing - like instead of green blink dog - purple. PVP 24k Glory purple, something. Even if it's only one. The new Sword Coast deal is a little unfair imho without more ways to get better companions even if just 1-2. Not every answer should be "LOL just grind AD!". That makes for a boring game.

mithrosnomore

khalith01 wrote: »

Also, I believe we should be able to get at least 1 epic companion strictly through leveling. At X level give a single upgrade item for one companion.

The game has to be funded. Giving people a purple companion of the type of their choice, strictly through leveling doesn't seem like a way to encourage people to pay for a companion.

Want a purple healer? Don't buy one, just choose the basic cleric and get them to purple for free.
Want a purple tank? Man At Arms is your guy.

Besides, I would argue that invoking is part of the leveling process, that pays off in AD, and AD can get you any number of purple companions over time.

I am not saying that the prices make sense. I would have to look at the prices of a purple companion compared to the prices of blue companions and the purple upgrade and green companions and the blue and purple upgrades.

But I do not think that there is a lot of justification to demand that each and every character be able to promote a companion of their choice to purple by the time that character hits 60, or at least by the time that they finish the main story missions.

khimera906

Ever since they put the SCA on the preview, I proposed to turn it into an alternate way to upgrade companions. For example, every successful run could give you a chance to receive a token, and with enough tokes to be able to buy the upgrade. Of course there would be some rules, to keep thing fair. For example, you would have to use an all-white team to receive a token required to upgrade to green.
I don't think the thread was meant for rants and complaints, so I won't go into that, but I think the current system is an all around fail.

tornnomar

I, too, think that the cost are a bit extravagent, but thats intentional. Why would you spend crazy amounts of AD to upgrade a magnetic generic cleric to 30 when you can buy a healer companion, especially now that they're reduced in price from the zen shop? Even at regular price, its makes much more sense to buy one instead of upgrading.

the current system encourages buying your companions, if you don't want to do that, fine. Prepare for the AD grind.

bendalek

tornnomar wrote: »

Why would you spend crazy amounts of AD to upgrade a magnetic generic cleric to 30 when you can buy a healer companion,<snip>.

To which Z-Store companion are you referring?

AFAIK, their is no equivalent to the Aggromagnetic CD ... And the upgrade cost is only a little over the AD to Z conversion price of a Purple Z-Store companion, plus the CD's Passive Buff increases as as she levels up, while many of Buffs from Z-Store companions do not ... It's all about value not price, if you see value in upgrading the white companions to purple, then no the price isn't an issue.

caldannach

xxmantaraxx wrote: »

10 bucks a paycheck to speed things up is worth it to some. I mean with AD to zen ratio being near 450 lately your getting close to 900, 000k for 20usd. For me I like to grind certain things, my blue stone for example, but I have no problem staying in on a Saturday and spending some money here instead of blowing it on over priced beer at some <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> bar.

THIS.

At the end of the day, if you play MMO's enough they are hobbies. Its a F2P game, but the trick is in the name. Its free to play, if you like grinding.

Why not embrace your hobby, drop some cash and support the game, and give yourself some extra fun. If i had to grind everything in this game i would stop playing. It would hold no enjoyment for me. Grinding is too much like a job.

imsmithy

With the huge drop in Zen store prices for companions they have to reduce the upgrade costs , yesterday I got a Ioun stone of Allure for 380k and I'm guessing that the prices will and are continuing to drop , so that means that I could pick up 2 blue versions of the best companion in game for just a few thousand AD over the cost of leveling a companion up from blue to purple , that's just crazy lol.