Incoming Nerfs to Fox Cunning And Master Of Archery

voltomey

Hello all just like to give people the heads up on the incoming Nerf to two of are best Ability's i would also advice visiting the thread and protesting the incoming changes.

panderus wrote: »

NW.10.20131120z.18
Classes and Balance

[*]Hunter Ranger

• Feats: Master of Archery: When you crit with a ranged attack, guarantee that your next Encounter power will crit. This effect cannot be triggered more than once every 20 seconds.
• Feats: Master of Archery: Thorn Ward and Rain of Arrows now correctly triggerand use this feat.
• Feats: Nature's Grasp: This feat can now be properly applied by Thorn Ward and Rain of Arrows.
• Fox's Cunning: This power no longer grants Control Immunity. This was a hold over from an old version of the power and was not intended.
• Rain of Arrows: This power can now correctly crit.
• Storm Warden Paragon Path: Split the Sky: This power now properly gets damage bonuses from other sources.

IMHO Master of archery was a little OP But would wish they put it on a 10 to 15 second CD and also what really Hurts me is that this is now only going to effect encounter powers and i understand why split shot this and correcting Aim are just well godly.While this will not effect Archers two much it will make it so they have to probably stack just as much Crit as Melee rangers now so i am actually going to lose 600 power from my Ranger to add a lil more crit chance.Probably 40% Or Higher Crit chance will be the sweet spot two none crits giving 50%chance.


Enough about that whats really hurting me is the fox Nerf no control immunity now if there going to change this at least work the CC immunity into its feat in the nature tree that way at least the nature spec rangers aren't screwed over by this change.

pingconchere

Hmm, so it seems the 41% crit theory I made is becoming more of a reality. Unfortunately. I'll see if I can come up with some new numbers considering the major changes to the feat, like how it only applies to encounters and has a 20 second cd. I feel that the new numbers will result in similar results, since even though there is a 20 second cd, it only applies to encounters, which have cooldowns themselves.

As for Fox's Cunning, all I have to say is sadness. It might be appropriate to either place the cc immunity in the Nature tree, as you said, or possibly add a different effect in its place. Otherwise, this is a strong indirect nerf to an already niche Nature build.

Overall, it's definitely not time to cry doom and gloom. Changes were bound to happen after the release to Live. Besides, they did fix/buff other powers. Only time will really tell how continuing changes will roll out the Ranger.

This is actually partially why I'm not really leveling a Ranger until later. One: too much hype, too many Rangers. Two: the Ranger was bound to be changed, so I didn't want to make any build decisions based on possibly changeable feats.

voltomey

pingconchere wrote: »

Hmm, so it seems the 41% crit theory I made is becoming more of a reality. Unfortunately. I'll see if I can come up with some new numbers considering the major changes to the feat, like how it only applies to encounters and has a 20 second cd. I feel that the new numbers will result in similar results, since even though there is a 20 second cd, it only applies to encounters, which have cooldowns themselves.

As for Fox's Cunning, all I have to say is sadness. It might be appropriate to either place the cc immunity in the Nature tree, as you said, or possibly add a different effect in its place. Otherwise, this is a strong indirect nerf to an already niche Nature build.

Overall, it's definitely not time to cry doom and gloom. Changes were bound to happen after the release to Live. Besides, they did fix/buff other powers. Only time will really tell how continuing changes will roll out the Ranger.

This is actually partially why I'm not really leveling a Ranger until later. One: too much hype, too many Rangers. Two: the Ranger was bound to be changed, so I didn't want to make any build decisions based on possibly changeable feats.

I am not crying doom i am already on the test server with my live ranger doing my thing i just want the community to rise up and protest such radical changes. To key skills like fox that keep us alive.

pingconchere

I wasn't trying to imply you were. Actually, I was glad you didn't and were more constructive with your post. I was just trying to warn others from hate-spamming. I guess I could have made that clearer in my post, but no worries; no hard feelings intended :cool:

This is why solid communication is key: without it, misunderstandings arise. Anyway, let's keep the communication rolling.

Edit: And I need a better signature with more philosophical quotes.

voltomey

ATM I am not likeing the master of archery change i can tell you that much

nishijou

No Aspect of the Lone Wolf fix?

voltomey

No its not working even if it did its a bad feat imho any way:

New Master Of archery Makes Thorn Ward crit every single time its also a perma Buff so if you dont use a encounter it never goes away Until you crit with a encounter Power. Also It dose not consider Thorn ward/Split The sky encounter Powers But it dose not effect Split the sky like it effects Thorn ward though.

obsidiancran3

Overall that looks like a positive set of changes. I need to do some investigating before I finalise my thoughts on how Master of Archery procs.

voltomey

obsidiancran3 wrote: »

Overall that looks like a positive set of changes. I need to do some investigating before I finalise my thoughts on how Master of Archery procs.

Obs its a one time perma buff when it proc it stays on you forever until you use a encounter power with it and as long as you have not used up the buff it will not go on its CD But it will not proc until the buff it gives has ben used. It simultaniusly Considers and dosent consider Thorn ward a encounter power Thorn ward will not use up the buff But it will gain the benifit of the buff and crit every single time.

rosicrucianist

Mastery of Archery's cool down shouldn't be higher than 10 seconds. 20 seems like too much.

rhoric

Master of Archery I have seen in my battles would only proc like twice, maybe 3 times before the battle is over. This is not a big hit to our damage. I have a 30% crit chance on my HR at lvl 60 right now.

voltomey

rhoric wrote: »

Master of Archery I have seen in my battles would only proc like twice, maybe 3 times before the battle is over. This is not a big hit to our damage. I have a 30% crit chance on my HR at lvl 60 right now.

Then you aren't doing it right if it only proc two or three times for you and you probably don't have correcting aim with correcting aim you basically had a Neer 100% crit rate Along with MoA its a huge hit to Are DPS cuas split shot crits and proc this feat like no other.

rhoric

It is not a huge hit. My encounters I use are split the sky, thorn ward and rain of arrows. My man at arms companion takes argo which keeps the mobs in the aoe area. Most battles are over in a very short period unless it is a boss battle then it takes a bit longer. I think I know what I am doing.

voltomey

rhoric wrote: »

It is not a huge hit. My encounters I use are split the sky, thorn ward and rain of arrows. My man at arms companion takes argo which keeps the mobs in the aoe area. Most battles are over in a very short period unless it is a boss battle then it takes a bit longer. I think I know what I am doing.

I can take on 4 dread rings mobs at a time in archery stance alone and and only ever use Fox Cunning your comment makes me believe you think the majorities of are DPS comes from encounters which it does not it comes from At wills. Master of Archery was more for at wills then your encounter powers cause that what you use when you encounters were on CD. Are At wills are also what procs armor set effects of high sentry and grand warden. With master of archery getting Nerf to only affect encounters it Cut are at will dps considerably as well as cut the proc rate of of the armor sets i mentioned.

rhoric

My at wills are only rapid shot and split shot. It is not a huge hit. Not everyone cares about armour sets. I think I know how to play. Been playing MMOs since 2000. It just seems you are so worried about min/maxing.

This game is not about min/maxing. This game is about fun. The other MMO is worried about min/maxing.

voltomey

rhoric wrote: »

My at wills are only rapid shot and split shot. It is not a huge hit. Not everyone cares about armour sets. I think I know how to play. Been playing MMOs since 2000. It just seems you are so worried about min/maxing.

Are you kidding me where is my post dose it say i am worried about min maxing i just stated a fact and arguably Split Shot and Rapid fire were the main two at wills that are going to take a hit in DPS if this nerf goes though. How you of all people cant see a dps nerf when its stareing you right in the face its beyond me.

hidahayabusa

The end tier of Archery is the one thing that made the tree...the cheesy choice. It's too much of a damage increase since the way it's worded you can keep streaking Crits like crazy.

I am glad I went combat for my PvP tanky HR.

voltomey

hidahayabusa wrote: »

The end tier of Archery is the one thing that made the tree...the cheesy choice. It's too much of a damage increase since the way it's worded you can keep streaking Crits like crazy.

I am glad I went combat for my PvP tanky HR.

Arguably Combat is now my primary tree if this nerf goes though lolz

hidahayabusa

Yes, and to be honest if you check the two trees...and exclude the end tier, Archery provides much less utility than Combat.

obsidiancran3

Ok so now I've checked things out, this change to Master Archer bothers me.

With Eye of the Storm a CW can have 100% crits on every attack for 8s, but a HR cannot have it on 1 attack after achieving a crit on the prior one for 20s?

Seems odd to me.

A 10s cooldown and leaving it to work on any attack seems more in line with other options.

Not sure this will stop me running Archery tree, but it does make it weaker than before the patch.

hidahayabusa

It was not the same dear Hoturi-fan. EotS is a proc, while Master Archer just asks for a crit coming from a class with a almost 50% crit chance. It's actually really awkwardly worded.

So someone would just wait for an initial Crit, and then keep critting forever. Not good

voltomey

obsidiancran3 wrote: »

Ok so now I've checked things out, this change to Master Archer bothers me.

With Eye of the Storm a CW can have 100% crits on every attack for 8s, but a HR cannot have it on 1 attack after achieving a crit on the prior one for 20s?

Seems odd to me.

A 10s cooldown and leaving it to work on any attack seems more in line with other options.

Not sure this will stop me running Archery tree, but it does make it weaker than before the patch.

Yes exactly a 10 or 15 second recharge would put it in line but making it only work for encounters just turns it intoa slightly better version of bloodthirsty

donblacksheep

Hello, I wanted to express my opinion about the preview patch notes.


If you change the Master of Archery on Hunter Ranger like you want, 20 seconds of cooldown, you are breaking the class on high level PvP, giving it 100% sure of not having chances on killing the real tanky players, or even beating the others on combat.

Your only real effective source of damage is slow animation casting at-will's, or being more specific its Aimed shot and Split shot. As a Hunter Ranger the ONLY way you could possible have a chance of killing a Rogue, Greater weapon figther or a cleric is WITH 3,4 crits on a row, which is extremly hard to get even with the Master of Archery, you will probably get your face owned by a Control Wizard 1vs1 as well.


This change can make the low class players with extremly bad gear, happy, but for the real high level PvP comunity of the game, you are just making the class worthless to replace with any other class on a team, because of the lack on utility/damage.
Please think about us, the real PvP'ers on this game, changes like that are only making your real good players leave this game.

krolk8888

Hmm..im just going to have to stack more crit and respec from roots 5% proc to 5% more crit per non crit.

Btw,whats the formula for crit chance?

patienceee

But heyy 50% chance to apply strong grasping root with thorn ward and rain of arorws..... but its in t2 nature O.o

caexar

obsidiancran3 wrote: »

Ok so now I've checked things out, this change to Master Archer bothers me.

With Eye of the Storm a CW can have 100% crits on every attack for 8s, but a HR cannot have it on 1 attack after achieving a crit on the prior one for 20s?

Seems odd to me.

A 10s cooldown and leaving it to work on any attack seems more in line with other options.

Not sure this will stop me running Archery tree, but it does make it weaker than before the patch.

A few things, firstly Eye of the Storm only has 3 sec worth of insta crits. Secondly, it procs at a very low % chance as well, so low that if a CW isn't using DoT effects his chances of seeing it go off are almost nil.
Thirdly, no cooldown on Master of Archery was overpowered. It also was applying to every single enemy hit on the 100% shot, not only on the next roll. Example, you could proc Master of Archery then use Split Shot to guarantee a crit on all 5 targets. This is broken because split shot (and other AoE's) has different crit percentage rolls on each target. That's uber.
Fourthly, Master of Archery was also proccing off of the archery stance buffs at times as well, so it clearly needed reworking.

obsidiancran3

hidahayabusa wrote: »

It was not the same dear Hoturi-fan. EotS is a proc, while Master Archer just asks for a crit coming from a class with a almost 50% crit chance. It's actually really awkwardly worded.

So someone would just wait for an initial Crit, and then keep critting forever. Not good

Ahm.. That isn't how Master Archer works. It doesn't proc itself at all. So the best you can achieve is about 2/3 of attacks are a crit.

You might also notice Hida-san that I'm ok with a 10s cooldown as that should bring the feat in line with other similar effects.

Also over in the Patch notes thread they commented that this was a bug fix...

obsidiancran3

caexar wrote: »

A few things, firstly Eye of the Storm only has 3 sec worth of insta crits. Secondly, it procs at a very low % chance as well, so low that if a CW isn't using DoT effects his chances of seeing it go off are almost nil.

I see it go off quite often, but then I run Storm as well to increase the number of chances to proc, you know that fairly standard arrangement for CWs. (As to the duration I was using a second party source so my time could well be off.)

caexar wrote: »

Thirdly, no cooldown on Master of Archery was overpowered. It also was applying to every single enemy hit on the 100% shot, not only on the next roll. Example, you could proc Master of Archery then use Split Shot to guarantee a crit on all 5 targets. This is broken because split shot (and other AoE's) has different crit percentage rolls on each target. That's uber.
Fourthly, Master of Archery was also proccing off of the archery stance buffs at times as well, so it clearly needed reworking.

See the list of bugs; fix them first. Then see how the feature is performing. Then add a cooldown if needed, and start lower instead of higher.

I have no problems with fixing things that are broken (and I suspected the Split Shot thing was happening but haven't messed with my 60 HR enough on preview), but I also believe in fixing what is broken and then checking how things work when functioning as intended instead of completely changing how things work as a supposed fix.

caexar

Oh I get what you're saying obsidian, and it does feel like bait and switch to all the archer rangers. But even so it was still a bit too much in it's current incarnation. Personally I would have been happy if they had just fixed the individual crit rolls on the 100% shot and made it not proc off of buffs in archer stance. I was ok with the no cooldown thing, as it helped the archers be more viable.

aramyll

I think 20 seconds internal cooldown is way too much, i will admit last night in PVP master of archery was proccing like crazy but still, it is a bit much to nerf the abilityso much and limit it to encounter powers. I think they should have buffed it a bit more to affect at wills, like maybe making it so that when it procs it also removes the hit cancellation on aimed shot, or makes aimed shot an instant cast spell. something to buff at wills, i mean the skill is called MASTER OF ARCHERY !!! As for fox's cunning never used the ability so cant really give an opinion either way.


quick question while i was in pvp i had alot of ranger shift dodging my attacks, but when i did it all attacks kept hitting me. is our shift a dodge or just a glide ???

caexar

aramyll wrote: »

quick question while i was in pvp i had alot of ranger shift dodging my attacks, but when i did it all attacks kept hitting me. is our shift a dodge or just a glide ???

Its a timing thing. You have to shift slightly ahead of the attack animation getting halfway through. I posted a video on how to ghost step somewhere in one of these threads which demonstrates it.
Practice makes perfect