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So I Joined a Pug
tripsofthrymr
Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
Got on to DD a bit late and guild members were already out, so I joined a pug.
We went to epic PK.
First two skill nodes, the CW runs away from combat to loot the skill nodes.
I mention politely in chat to please not just loot the skill nodes, and to make sure everyone gets a shot at them.
Next skill node is the arcane one with a puzzle first. I solve the puzzle, and the TR snags the arcane node before I can open it.
The predictions in the preview forum are coming to pass... blues dropping only from epic skill nodes is creating a very bad game experience for those that don't have the benefit of friends that play nice.
SUGGESTED SOLUTIONS:
- If a blue item pops from a skill node, create a Roll dialog just like for any other Blue or above drop (already suggested multiple times in the Preview forum)
- Allow the level 60 rate limited solo instances (e.g. Gnarlroot Caverns, ...) to also drop blues. Don't need to rely on pugs if you're not in a guild, can't farm them all day long.
We went to epic PK.
First two skill nodes, the CW runs away from combat to loot the skill nodes.
I mention politely in chat to please not just loot the skill nodes, and to make sure everyone gets a shot at them.
Next skill node is the arcane one with a puzzle first. I solve the puzzle, and the TR snags the arcane node before I can open it.
The predictions in the preview forum are coming to pass... blues dropping only from epic skill nodes is creating a very bad game experience for those that don't have the benefit of friends that play nice.
SUGGESTED SOLUTIONS:
- If a blue item pops from a skill node, create a Roll dialog just like for any other Blue or above drop (already suggested multiple times in the Preview forum)
- Allow the level 60 rate limited solo instances (e.g. Gnarlroot Caverns, ...) to also drop blues. Don't need to rely on pugs if you're not in a guild, can't farm them all day long.
Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Post edited by tripsofthrymr on
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THIS^^ is what needs to happen.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
this is great advice. you can also join the NW_Legit_Community channel to find your group. /Channel_Join NW_Legit_Community
No, this is not great advice. It's adding insult to injury, and I don't appreciate it at all.
Many of us - due to work - can only spontaneously PUG as their time schedule doesn't reliably permit them otherwise.
That "just join a guild, go with friends" stance effectively boils down to advising people to abandoning a central game mechanic and means cutting yourself off from meeting (potentially) nice people.
Not having loot rolls on marks is just bad design, as it's poisoning the PVE setting - you just don't inject something rewarding anti-social behaviour into PvE. I fully support the OP's suggestions, especially as we're talking about something that is so easy to fix for great effect. Fixing it is infinitely better than effectively abandoning the system.
For what it's worth, I've made similar experiences today. Had nodes taken from the GF as he's slow and later, had DPS camping right on the DC node while I was still healing. How is this right?
This is probably the best solution. Then no annoyances for people expending a kit just to not get their reward from it, and no incentive for others to be rude and endanger the party with unsportsmanlike looting.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
This is the most sensible suggestion to fix the problem presented in this thread.
The thing is, though, if not skills nodes then where else should these drop from that would still be just as accessible to players? They respawn infinitely, they're common, they aren't a one-time-only thing like they would be in a quest reward.... All you could do is make them drop solely from enemies instead. I guess they could do that if they don't already drop, but since enchants can be gotten both from enemies and from skill nodes, it makes sense to do the same for the stuff that goes with them.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
That being said, joining the legit channel is good for people even in guilds.
- JailBreak (in development)
I don't think you are understanding - you need not go with a guild or friends. You need only communicate with those you are going to team with, so as to get a feeling for what kind of player they are, and what kind of play experience you are going to have. If you are going to devote a half-hour or more to run a dungeon, you can spend 5-10 minutes to talk to your teammates. The queue system is random - and random teammates are going to be unpredictable. The marks can be bought from the Wondrous Bazaar w/ ADs, so you can instead focus on getting items from a dungeon that can be sold or salvaged for the necessary ADs. You can also learn the maps so you are the first one to the profession nodes. Similarly, you could simply run through the regular zones at your leisure and hit the skill nodes as needed. Suggesting a sweeping change like this isn't the answer - educating people and teaming with better players, is.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
My experience with pugs is they don't communicate. I have sent tell to members in the group tried chatting in group chat and no one responds.
+1.
The queue mechanism is about bringing people together that don't have in-game friends yet, or whose friends are not currently available to play. It is an avenue to make friends in the first place.
Advice to just not queue with strangers is like treating a splinter by cutting off the hand.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
No, its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> advice that should not be needed, basicly you're advocating players working around to *fix* what cryptic were told would happen but ignored.
That said I love that that channel exist and the people that run it, it is just so sad it's needed.
Any system that brings random people together, by definition, doesn't discriminate between those that want to be chatty and make friends and those that are there strictly there for X number of rewards per Y unit of time. My advocating forming your own group is to help the OP separate out the wheat from the chaff, as it were - to add a human element to a system that is very much in need of one. There is no way a random teaming system will ever be able to discern who is here to make friends and have fun, from those that see running epics as a second job. Why is it bad to advise that you exercise some judgement in determining who you team with?
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
It is not bad advice at all, but doesn't solve the underlying problem. My original situation was that I could not find a team among friends and guild members (I also subscribe to and checked NW_Legit_Community). Others will have their own situations that lead to random teaming.
It is simply not feasible to get to know random people you may want to team with before entering a DD event. The clock is ticking, both for you and for them.
It would also not be a problem if highly coveted awards were not first-come, first-serve.
Simply by rolling for the blue marks the same way other blue items are currently rolled for would remove this additional motivation for anti-social behavior and significantly increase the likelihood of a good experience in a PUG.
A blue sword is worth 30 silver, and is rolled for. A blue mark can be worth 25,000 AD and is not rolled for.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
i can find a group to play with in just as much time or less and socialize (hey, it's an MMO... who knew) than it would take me to queue up for a dungeon full of strangers who may ninja loot, spend the whole time farming nodes instead of fighting and whatever else bugs you to smithereens.
with the new module being live for coming almost four days and with many more people experiencing it now than the many that participated on the preview shard, feedback is definitely important here. but no amount of forum opinion will ever beat statistics and metrics that only pwe is privy to. so do you want success or do you want failure?
and i seriously doubt cryptic/pwe track wether or not people in dungeons run to a node before last mob is dead but maybe you could point them to threads like this so they start to do that.
As for this being an mmo, it was decided by someone to put in that dungeon queue system, that means they gotta work with it, even if it means accounting for some people being greedy buggers.
After so many years I am still surprised developers havent caught onto the fact, that when people are offered a chance to be greedy/rude to strangers over a few pixels without loss of personal reputation, alot will use it without hesitating.
Players.
That means this is a player created problem. Devs can't exactly change player behavior preemptively.
Now if blue marks found in nodes can't be rolled on, I agree they should be and it doesn't make sense that they aren't rolled on. However it seems so odd that they wouldn't be rolled on by default that I'm skeptical that they are not. In fact I am fairly sure my guild got one yesterday from a node and had to roll on it but being as enthralled as I am with the HR I haven't run any dungeons to see for myself.
And that's all I can truly think of in order to solve any greedy actions.
If you have any more suggestions feel free to state them politely.
'We told you so' comments are about as helpful as they've ever been in any situation in history, though. There's really no need for them or insults directed at staff or players. If you have nothing constructive to add, then please don't add anything.
Yes it's true.
While I personally never pug any longer, the game mechanics, because they are offering PUG queues, they should cater specifically to pugs and make such annoyances a thing of the past.
This is a job for the devs to fix, not for players to find workarounds.
However until they fix it, if ever, you should try to bypass the idiocy of the system and make friends and run with them.
It doesn't take statistics or metrics, but rather common sense, to understand that putting a highly prized item in a place where the fastest person to it wins will encourage bad behavior.
If PWE's goal is to have players compete for those resources (to the detriment of the primary mission... beating the dungeon), that is their design decision.
If the goal though is to encourage teamwork (and that WAS cited as a design goal in having DD hours in the first place), this design decision is failing to meet that goal. This design decision is also inconsistent with the treatment of other (far less valuable) blue items in the same DD setting.
No stats can change that basic truth.
PS - Even that CW that seemed really nice during your pre-DD chat may well "happen" to cast spells from right on top of every skill node.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
I got a blue mark from a skill node, and there was no roll.
Mini-bosses can also drop blue marks. The ones that the mini-bosses drop are rolled for like other blue drops.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
wrong sorry, they could have made the decision to not put them into nodes, but chests instead so a roll is guaranteed.
As for told you so, when 40+pages gets ignored they might not be helpfull, but imo they are deserved.
criticism can be constructive and destructive. in a forum setting where there are a number of differing opinions, telling another person their opinion is wrong is a personal attack.
that is not constructive at all. and it has nothing to do with bias. it has to do with the forum rules of conduct.
if what you are about to say is rude or insulting, then you should not say it. respect goes a long way around here.
if you'd like to continue a discussion on the forum rules, feel free to drop any community moderator or the community managers a PM. any continued discussion of moderation or the rules will be removed without warning.
Not players. People. In games, at work, everywhere. That's why there are rules and sometimes punishment. This is only a code and game design issue. I hope you can understand that. You can't change people.