CW's Entangling Force and AP gain

yukimaru153

Hi, I'm fairly new to posting here, but the latest adjustment to the CW is simply not reasonable. Entangling Force now generates more AP when not slotted on tab which left me in awe. On tab it is not just simply an AP earning machine. It also functions as a means to draw the mobs together "control". You have taken away the AP gain and it seems as though you are punishing those who dare to place it on tab by not even allowing it to generate the same amount of AP when used as an encounter. It was finally getting to where a party did not have 2-3 CW's constantly which allowed other classes to get in on runs more often. Now you have taken a step backwards. CW's have more AP gain for a reason and that is to control. Unless it is the games intention for other classes to be sidelined due to the ungodly amount of adds in dungeons this is not the correct means. To me the skilled worked as it should. A person should gain AP for everything they hit. Just as any other class does. I am aware that there is a new class being introduced, and would like to see it do well. However it now will take a bare minimal of 2 cw's to do most runs. Where does this leave other classes? Left out in the cold more so then they were before the adjustment to EF. Fact is a CW is ment to control, and this is among only a few of the recent adjustments that has been made to my class that has taken away a great deal of that factor. EF should be restored to where it was. I did not complain about the adjustment to shield, but this is a bit to far. Skills should gain AP for what they hit this is only fair. So yes on mastery it should gain more than it does when slotted as an encounter. This is my opinion. However if there are other CW's out there whom agree or disagree please comment. I hope that the developers will reconsider this adjustment I really have enjoyed solo cc'ing dungeons. It was a challenge and I do not look forward to parties loading up the wagon with CW's to compensate for this adjustment :-(

13.8gs Full HV pvp, 14.4gs pve CW

dkcandy

The AP gain was bugged and it's why it was patched. But it had a 25% AP gain increase from what it should have been.

pitshade

The normal version had it's AP gain increased. It sounds like they messed up with the mastery version. But yes, any skill that generates AP based on targets hit is a bug, according to the devs. Shield, Roar, Frontline Surge got patched before EF did. There will be more. It's not good that they fix people's workarounds for the broken dungeon mechanics and not the dungeons themselves, though.

mehguy138

Now my friend as a CW is thinking to always bring another CW in a dungeon party. GWF? GF? Never heard about them...

adernath

I think it was ok to nerf it a bit, but it was too much. Now it is quite useless in comparison to other abilities on tab

kozi001

Cws has just been tremendously nerfed 2 days ago and already want more...?

It must be some new record!

Don't want to see cws around you? Level hunters it will probably perform just as good or better.

nanners

my cw is a heavily recovery/AP build, to serve as to "control". I have 14k gs, with 6k recovery, 24 INT, 22 WIS im full in AP with just 1 rotation, now it takes me almost 3 times more to use daily again even i use sunlord elixir and potion of heroism. It makes me thinking what's my purpose in a group now? - low survivability and low DPS, the main thing i do as a "CONTROL wizard" has been nerfed.

ortzhy

all classes suffered the same thing... so now CW and GF are in line with the rest.

grimah

nanomidgy wrote: »

my cw is a heavily recovery/AP build, to serve as to "control". I have 14k gs, with 6k recovery, 24 INT, 22 WIS im full in AP with just 1 rotation, now it takes me almost 3 times more to use daily again even i use sunlord elixir and potion of heroism. It makes me thinking what's my purpose in a group now? - low survivability and low DPS, the main thing i do as a "CONTROL wizard" has been nerfed.

And you think its okay for a class to gain AP in just 1 rotation? and not 3 like most other classes...

mconosrep

kozi001 wrote: »

Cws has just been tremendously nerfed 2 days ago and already want more...?

It must be some new record!

Don't want to see cws around you? Level hunters it will probably perform just as good or better.

Until the day LFG parties start looking for 3XX 1TR 1DC where XX is not CW, I don't think you need to worry too much....

mehguy138

grimah wrote: »

And you think its okay for a class to gain AP in just 1 rotation? and not 3 like most other classes...

I'd like to see nonstop singularity from a single CW because it's too hard to get in a dungeon as a fighter class, because now CW's can't do their work as well as before, so you obviously need more of them. Fighting endless adds is not fun, now it's got harder because of shield 5 targets cap and tab entagling nerfs.

freedumb4eva

Nothing at all has changed for me. In fact, my damage has gone up thanks to the armor pen fixes.

CW's with 14k gs having trouble must not have any armor pen or were relying too much on bugged AP gain. Sorry, you can't fill 60% of your AP meter in one encounter.

notbizzy

Why the hell do you even need EF on tab when trash/boss (CN and MC) melts even faster in Mod2.
We got active bonuses from pets and stat boost/debuff/buff from artifacts so whats the problem here.

interventionxe

All they do is nerf AP gain on the CW then say it's "WAI". What do you expect? Most of these "WAI" fixes lose their ability to trigger the effect of certain feats: controlling action and critical power. Therefore it makes sense that non-mastery version generates more AP. I'll let you figure out why.


Nvm, I'll tell you it's because it wasn't "fixed" to "WAI". However, now that you mentioned it, the non-mastery version will most likely see a "fix" so it to can be "WAI"; A.K.A working while disregarding the benefit of triggering certain feats.

Thanks for nothing.

If anyone wants to dispute what I said slot shield and burst it over 1000 times record all the AP and present your findings! 100000+ times if you really like statistics. EF still works with Critical power fortunately.

Ever notice steal time gives AP twice? There is a reason for that. Eventually they would "WAI" that too might as-well mention that here now. Your welcome, for nothing. I guess some of us prefer to look at the mechanic of the pew pew instead of simply flashy numbers.

twstdecho

nanomidgy wrote: »

my cw is a heavily recovery/AP build, to serve as to "control". I have 14k gs, with 6k recovery, 24 INT, 22 WIS im full in AP with just 1 rotation, now it takes me almost 3 times more to use daily again even i use sunlord elixir and potion of heroism. It makes me thinking what's my purpose in a group now? - low survivability and low DPS, the main thing i do as a "CONTROL wizard" has been nerfed.

"Control" is not synonymous with "Sing bot". If constantly spamming a daily power is the only thing that qualifies as "control" to you, then perhaps you may want to rethink your build. I apply more than enough control through my powers, that while, yes, the new AP "nerfs" are difficult to get used to at first, it's not changing our purpose on the battlefield.

notbizzy

twstdecho wrote: »

"Control" is not synonymous with "Sing bot". If constantly spamming a daily power is the only thing that qualifies as "control" to you, then perhaps you may want to rethink your build. I apply more than enough control through my powers, that while, yes, the new AP "nerfs" are difficult to get used to at first, it's not changing our purpose on the battlefield.

^ this.
Dont even know how many times my blood pressure went up when I saw chain cast Sing on Draco in Mod2.

jacksoon

My Cw generate Ap fast like first, how? I use another skill on tab now that give me Ap and i can cast a daily each 20 sec. No more Sing bot, is real, but i can still use a daily each 20 sec, not so bad after all

murtthewolf

mehguy138 wrote: »

I'd like to see nonstop singularity from a single CW because it's too hard to get in a dungeon as a fighter class, because now CW's can't do their work as well as before, so you obviously need more of them. Fighting endless adds is not fun, now it's got harder because of shield 5 targets cap and tab entagling nerfs.

I have to agree with this statement. I have 6 lvl 60's at 14k+ (each class), and there isn't a dungeon I would go on right now without at least 2 cw's. STOP NERFING CLASSES AND FIX THE GAME MECHANICS! Then if classes still need adjusting, go for it.

Sidenote: Please stop releasing expansions until you get group and pvp queue fixed.

yyrkoonstyphoon

11.5k gs cw with cat - still using t1 (arch mage set) and a tham build (i need a respec but whatever) ran TOS and SP in a dd yesterday as the only CW - and no gwf in group. Getting into a proper rotation with the arch mage set is important, ST will take a second off cooldowns as well as the other control powers so if timed correctly, you almost always have an encounter available.

I had a friend tell me shield is a crutch and holds back. I dropped it from my rotation and I am convinced they are correct. I swapped out EF too, because i get better synergy from other powers. So maybe the thing you should be doing is figuring out how to adjust and roll with the changes. MMOs always change power sets and repecs are the norm. I have never played an mmo where a power or 4 were not tweeked as things in the game change. Get used to change, because it will happen.

BTW, i think i suck as a cw, it is not my 'Main' toon, but watching and learning and taking advice has me to where i have been able to be a solo mage on most t2s. I know this is also subject to the other classes/players running, but one of the guys in our group (the GF) was still working on his t1 set..

flayedawg

yyrkoonstyphoon wrote: »

I had a friend tell me shield is a crutch and holds back. I dropped it from my rotation and I am convinced they are correct. I swapped out EF too, because i get better synergy from other powers

I added Shield to my Encounters bar, & I think I'm dramatically better off with it than without.

twstdecho

Shield can be useful for a time. It can help with knocking off ledges if that's your goal, and it can help your survivability if you are overly squishy, and not yet powerful enough to compensate. However, once you have enough defense to compensate, or are doing enough damage/control that being hit often isn't a concern, it starts to hold you back by preventing you from slotting something with more control and damage that fires off faster.

overthetopsigh

The CW's in my guild had to adjust to the new changes and have done well for themselves. We no longer run with entangle on tab and have endless sings to a point where we didn't even need clerics for dungeons. It is ridiculous to be in LFG and seeing everyone needing more CW's to clear dungeons.

In fact, the new changes have made our dungeons run way faster and smoother then before. We also don't have to worry about getting certain classes to run dungeons. We pick up whichever and whatever classes are online so no one gets left out. Experiment with new class make-ups, and different strategies in both clearing adds and bosses, it's more fun then the vanilla 4 cw 1 dc party... Here's a hint, our fastest party in dungeon runs has only 1 CW.

CW's have many other controlling abilities and complement other classes that can do the same job (GWF-come and get it, GF- enforced threat TR-smoke bomb, DC - chains, HR - ??? I don't play this class). The answer isn't more singularities.

flayedawg

twstdecho wrote: »

Shield can be useful for a time

Yes, & for my level 30 CW Wizzie, that time is constant

twstdecho

You might outpace it's usefulness faster than you think.

pitshade

You're better off practicing your kiting skills and leave the shield for times (mostly boss fights) when you're getting pelted by archers. At the moment I can't remember what powers are available to a level 30 CW. I know at lower levels you can get stuck with nothing decent to slot when you unlock the tab power, and then your next two powers are repel and shield, useful at times but only during those times.

dethsdezyn

I must confess, I am one of those who has had shield on even after 60. (Before that and before I met my guild I was never using shield at all, only using repel in combo with other moves made it so i barely got hit at all by the bigger enemies. got into guild at lvl 35).
Today I dropped shield and put Shard in Tab, added gill strike to my ecnounter to go along with storm and EF. It's a little bit tricky getting used to but I think it is going to be a huge improvement. I have regular vorp and regular soulforge as well.

SO thank you all for convincing me to ditch the shield, of course I won't lknow for sure till I hit a dungeon, but maybe it won't be so bad. LOL

lazuree

dethsdezyn wrote: »

I must confess, I am one of those who has had shield on even after 60. (Before that and before I met my guild I was never using shield at all, only using repel in combo with other moves made it so i barely got hit at all by the bigger enemies. got into guild at lvl 35).
Today I dropped shield and put Shard in Tab, added gill strike to my ecnounter to go along with storm and EF. It's a little bit tricky getting used to but I think it is going to be a huge improvement. I have regular vorp and regular soulforge as well.

SO thank you all for convincing me to ditch the shield, of course I won't lknow for sure till I hit a dungeon, but maybe it won't be so bad. LOL

I'd take shard off tab if I were you. You could put something that gives you more AP (CoI) or more damage when put in mastery there. Shard on tab is more for utility ( like in pvp) and does most damage on impact meaning it does not have to be in the mastery tab.

dethsdezyn

lazuree wrote: »

I'd take shard off tab if I were you. You could put something that gives you more AP (CoI) or more damage when put in mastery there. Shard on tab is more for utility ( like in pvp) and does most damage on impact meaning it does not have to be in the mastery tab.

CoI gives you AP? Little bit confused on that one. I know EF and Storm Pillar build AP.(I think) (And I don't have CoI spec'd but one rank unfortunately.) I will see if i can put something else in Tab and still keep shard.

twstdecho

dethsdezyn wrote: »

...Today I dropped shield and put Shard in Tab, added gill strike to my ecnounter to go along with storm and EF. It's a little bit tricky getting used to but I think it is going to be a huge improvement. I have regular vorp and regular soulforge as well.

"gill" strike is my all time favorite encounter. The look on the faces of my opponents when I slap them in the face with fresh fish is priceless!

dethsdezyn

twstdecho wrote: »

"gill" strike is my all time favorite encounter. The look on the faces of my opponents when I slap them in the face with fresh fish is priceless!

Yeah, having the option for Cod, Halibut or Sturgeon really adds another level to the game for sure.

gankdalf

I don't understand how people can have problems with AP gain. I have no problems at all and I don't use Controlling Action, Critical Power, Elven Haste or any companions that adds AP gain. I also only have 15p in wisdom.

Chill Strike (TAB)
Steal time
Shard
CoI

Or

CoI (TAB)
Steal time
Shard
Sudden Storm