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PVP - Reason why you do or do not participate.
tornnomar
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 399 Arc User
Brought this up because I have been asked to participate a few times and always decline. It's just that I have zero interest in getting into an environment where very few people understand that this is a team event. PVP is no different than a dungeon, there is a goal, and all must work towards it.
Put simply, A group of five, who work as a team, will have a field day with a group of five who are not working as a team. And you fall like dominoes.
This is not Neverwinter specific, I'm not picking on it. This occurs in any game with a PVP type environment, from HALO, COD, etc... For those I stick to FFA. At least there its me against everyone else, and its the same for them.
Maybe Neverwinter needs an FFA event, say 8 on 8, 10 on 10?
So why do you participate in PVP? Or, why don't you?
Put simply, A group of five, who work as a team, will have a field day with a group of five who are not working as a team. And you fall like dominoes.
This is not Neverwinter specific, I'm not picking on it. This occurs in any game with a PVP type environment, from HALO, COD, etc... For those I stick to FFA. At least there its me against everyone else, and its the same for them.
Maybe Neverwinter needs an FFA event, say 8 on 8, 10 on 10?
So why do you participate in PVP? Or, why don't you?
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Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Also, PvP is a small commitment each time, not hour(s) long.
In short, it gives me a reason to still have Neverwinter on my disk drive...
I like the challenge of it as well....I like showing a team that doesn't want to back cap, what a difference it makes to do so.
But you are right, that many don't understand it is a team and it is domination.
People will brag about coming in #1 on the scoreboard yet their team loses by 200 or 300.
Teams will all jump on my DC 4 and 5 at once, but the same people when I am on my CW get mad if I am not 1 v 1ing them when fighting for nodes--usually I just go node to node and assist and debuff. I actually had a guy put me on ingore because I was debuffing for a team mateand sometimes killing him--we are not talking about blow out matches where people are asking for 1v1s to pass the time...we are talking fighting for the nodes.
Overall, I'm a cooperative player, I'd rather help another person win than win myself. So PvP is not the ideal environment for me. But with the right people it's a hell of a lot of fun.
I play consoles and pc's; FPS and RTS and MMO's; and generally pick games both for their flavor and story as their mechanics.
Team play, I have found, is best achieved with a team. Many gamers here are very similar to those I've found in COD and other such games. Team play and teamwork is actually considered 'unfair' and 'cheating'. Ambushes and camping are seen as unfair, instead of tactics.
All in all, I think it's more telling of the style, and maybe the age, of the gamers. They truly have no concept of what is actually fair. It's more in line with 'unfair' equaling any time when they don't have all the advantages.
Best hope and suggestions I can give are these:
- Make your own team. Find like minded players and play with them. It's for fun, but if you have that want to win, realize it's competitive. No professional sports team just picks randoms out of the crowd before playing. They play together, practice together, and do well together.
- Don't expect teamwork from randoms. If you're playing GG, your five-man crew may do awesome, holding your position and topping the scoreboard, and the rest of the randoms will all find some way to get camped at the fire. Pick up two randoms for a dungeon run, and they'll be the push CW that makes it impossible for the melee guy to lay out his damage, or the "sir stands still alot" TR who doesn't see the color red and dies alot. I would say the vast majority of players don't even know what teamwork IS, much less how to provide it.
Every PUG I do, even these little skirmishes, is expected to fail from the start. I have absolutely no hope for any random player, until I see them play. It's simply the nature of the beast, whether that's in COD or NWO or any other.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
On my DC I end up PvPing and usually ending up alone because my PuG team would rather camp node 2. My GWF, specced sentinel fares better in PvP than my DC does, but again, I'm more of a PvEr than a PvPer. Teamwork would be helpful, but very few go for it, and the ones who do talk with voice can be childish (try having some guy shouting Leroy Jenkins and nearly blowing out your speakers) and I'm kinda glad the voice in game doesn't work for me to talk anyhow (can't imagine that going well). Good PuGs are hard to find, I think. At any rate, despite the many losses and few wins, I don't quit a match after someone leaves. I stick it out. Might as well, after all.
I've seen it all, really. Good PuGs, bad PuGs, premades with the top PvP guilds, and said top PvP guilds having some of the biggest jerks ever in PvE as well as PuG players too. It's just the nature of MMOs, really. A melting pot of varied players of varied skills.
I have many alts, I am a class and race rainbow.
I'd rather know how to take down their high dps fast than just go and back cap tbh. This is just the way I like to play
Can't wait for some kind of duel system or at least last man standing/deathmatch >.>
WTB Class Reroll please
though this becomes a bit skewed when arriving at 60. Due to the vast gap of imbalances that just didnt exist previously from 10-60.
And promotes unfavorable kind of play that doesnt make it very enjoyable as it could be. In addition to lack of maps.
Gauntlgrym needs more work. As it is now, its just a spiral of large groups running around.
theres no real utilization of tactics one can use effectively. the catapults and giant reinforcements are a nice touch but they arent really useful since they trigger automatically, and the giants move around real slow. If there was some kind of manual use of such seige weaponry and reinforcments, it would have good potential.
And then there's Glory. At the best salvage rate (gloves and helmets), 1 Glory = 1.26 AD (3150 Glory = 4000 AD). It takes me about two days, more or less, to earn enough glory to buy a pair of gloves or a helmet. 4000 AD / 2 = 2000 AD per day. 2K * 6 characters = 12K AD. And finally, 12K * 7 = 84K AD per week.
168 + 84 = 252. I make an average of 252000 AD a week from PvP alone.
And it's not a huge time commitment by any means. I'm a decent PvP player, and it takes me 2 to 3 matches to fulfill my daily on my five noncleric epic toons, and around 3 to 4 matches on my epic cleric. (5 *2.5) + 3.5 = 16 matches per day. Most matches are over within five minutes, with a few going up to ten minutes. That's roughly an hour and a half needed per day.
Basically, PvP is a more convenient path to gearing up my toons compared to the huge time commitment of doing a dungeon legit.
Taking a break from Neverwinter indefinitely...
Reason not to PvP: lvl.60 PvP is completely enchant dependant and highly unpleasant for those without the appropriate enchants/gears; Constant leavers at lvl.60 due to people unable to deal with the slightest imbalance; Inevitable steamroll against pre-made teams (no matter how much team-work you put into a PUG team, you will never get the same level of co-ordination as a pre-made, especially without voicechat, and it's unreasonable to expect random people to voicechat complete strangers, it shouldn't be a necessity and forced upon players, ever)
All true + the fact that PvP is just forgotten in this game by the developers. It's usually been the best part of any game to me, except in NW. Now I haven't played for months since PvP is the same boredom of time spent. And you cant achieve or get anything worthy from it.
Wish they would revamp the whole PvP system and add something to gain from it.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
Funny, I don't race around on horses in GG (stick to a point with a team, works really well) and I didn't buy my gear.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Any time players fight each other it is PvP, by definition.
As to the topic of the thread, I don't PvP in this game as I have no interest in it.
I used to enjoy deathmatches in FPS, especially when you could set it to one shot kill, like Quake II.
There is no tactic in that...most of the time you are a premade vs a pug.
Hanging out at the spawn point and waiting for one guy to jump down for a quick 5 v 1 is what you consider a tactic?
Two reasons people don't participate.
1) See above.
2) People want fun and rewards....even in failure.
The premade vs pug is a paramount issue that needs correction.
Gear outweighing skill is also huge detractor in garnering the 'real' pvp crowd.
You kids that think 5 v 5 is pvp ?
Try 200+ vs 200+ FULL LOOT pvp....kids these days....
try pvp, if you like it and continue doing so someone will notice you and offer you to join their team, or you will meet some cool people and become friends with and might end up starting your own team.
Am level 60 but don't have the best gear.
If there was a 1 on 1 I wouldn't mind playing. Don't need to build a team, and I
can't mess up anyone's fun. Besides, dueling sounds more interesting.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
or
Fighting people that are actually thinking
I pick the second one.
There's always that one guy in the group. You know, THAT guy? The one who thinks the game is glitched because the mobs are killing him too easily? That thinks his ping is too high, and THAT's why he can't dodge any of the aoe's? The one who complains that the dice (or in this case, RNG) are jinxed which is why he doesn't role perfect 20's like EVERYBODY else seems to?
That guy also plays PvP. And in PvP, he complains that EVERY other class is preferred by the devs, and the devs hate his class. That it's all some conspiracy against him and his. That everyone else is cheating, hacking, and modding to beat him. Because nobody could beat him legitimately.
If you learn anything, it's never to listen to THAT guy.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
I was referring not so much to unbalanced classes but to unbalanced match-ups based on gear, actually. If my total stat points are much less than yours (ignoring class differences) and I also don't have any weapon/armor enhancements while you do, I'm probably not going to last more than a few seconds between every death. It's not your fault for being powerful and not my fault for not yet being powerful (takes time to earn gear when you're new and squishy, after all). That's just how it is. It would be a more balanced test of skill if people with similar stat totals were funneled into matches with each other, but considering that gearscore means next to nothing, that's not the right way to balance it. (Yes I admit it's possible to beat someone whose gear is technically superior if you have more skill, but if you're facing a player of equal skill with better gear...you see where this is going.)
Although, getting perma-CCed to death is not my idea of fun either. It ruins my fun on the rare occasions it happens from mobs in PvE -- if I die because I'm slow it's one thing, but if I die because I dodge out of one sea of red just to land in another sea of red because the entire arena is a sea of red and then get flung around into successive AoEs until I die, without being able even to move in between, that's quite another thing. IIRC pretty much every class can do perma-CC, though, so if anything, that means they're all balanced in the wrong direction.
Maybe none of this is an issue as often as the complaints make it out to be. I dunno.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
I agree with you, actually. Gear balance is such a problematic issue for level 60's. Might as well let 60's fight 40's, the distinction is so large.
A matchmaking system somehow based on either an improved Gear Score formula, or gear tier, that locked gear on entry, would be very nice. We (the community) have offered many suggestions and variations on this theme.
I don't run BiS, but when your running matching T2 gear with 7's and standards and greater enchants, versus someone in 10's and perfects (not counting broken tene's), the difference is not so great. Not like me running 7's against a new sixty in blue's and no enchants at all.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
You don't have to do the GG PVP in order to do the dungeons. You can do the second phase of PVE instead.
So far the only real killjoy in PvP that I have encountered are the folks who abandon their team at the first sign of trouble. It's not impossible to win a 4v5, but the chances are slim if you are up against a team with any kind of battleground awareness. I'm not sure whats up with a sizable minority of the player-base, but there are some folks who are REALLY unable to cope with the idea of losing. So much so that they'll drop over little stuff like a 5 man base cap at the beginning of a match. (Yes that's not exactly the best way to start, but it's not a death sentence either)
Honestly I think if Cryptic wanted to keep pvp a more enjoyable thing, I'd say they should give us more pvp content and a penalty for ditching BGs early.