In addition to what vorphied said, your build is probably flawed...
-You never even need 4 pips
-also it seems you never use your hw and use bastion instead...
- you use bastion when everyone is above 50% hp which is silly b/c the cd is long in the first place so when you actually need it; the reason most of us don't use bastion is b/c the cd is so long and you use it in divine mode when like I said, they don't even need instant healing
-you put your AS down before an enemy is even nearby to attack wasting the cd
Try to change things and see if you are still having a lot of trouble, I'd advise you take FF or SB instead of bastion
Thanks for all the comments I really appreciate it! (and keep it coming in, I like the non-trolling good mannered conversations and I do wanna learn and get better) :]
I forgot to mention that most of my concernes are pvp related.
I do realise most of the things you guys wrote, still I feel weird that if cleric is not a 100% healer class and we have to use more than just healing spells/skills... It should put more emphasis on the couple of healing spells even more! I mean if I put just one healing spell on my bar (since I shouldn't use them all they aren't worth it) I feel that lousy one skill should grant significantly more healing power... or else I just skip it out to a dmg or a cc or whatever and I stop bother healing others completely, since it doesn't worth using that spell at all!
Why would I use a healing spell that gives really really limited tools rather than a cc or a dmg that would give a better tools on my char? This is the main issue here I feel.
Astral shield is an amazing healing tool. It recoops people from near death, it provides resistence to incoming damage. I've been able to sit on shield + hallow ground and eat back to back ice knives without it dropping my health below half. As an added perk, I gained health from both effects. Forge Fire is a solid heal. It does great. To top it off? It hurts the target you're trying to kill AND heals anyone who's helping you focus fire the target down.
For my DC, I play as a DPS, not a healer. I have break the spirit, forge fire and astral shield. Even as a DPS, with most of my feats in the DPS tree and not the heal tree, I use AS. It still saves people. The exact level of how amazing this ability is, can not be over-stated. The oracle DC is not meant to be a straight healer. They're equvelent to shaman healers in WoW, if you will. It can be done. But the rest of the group better be prepared to keep themselves up too.
Thanks for all the comments I really appreciate it! (and keep it coming in, I like the non-trolling good mannered conversations and I do wanna learn and get better) :]
I forgot to mention that most of my concernes are pvp related.
I do realise most of the things you guys wrote, still I feel weird that if cleric is not a 100% healer class and we have to use more than just healing spells/skills... It should put more emphasis on the couple of healing spells even more! I mean if I put just one healing spell on my bar (since I shouldn't use them all they aren't worth it) I feel that lousy one skill should grant significantly more healing power... or else I just skip it out to a dmg or a cc or whatever and I stop bother healing others completely, since it doesn't worth using that spell at all!
Why would I use a healing spell that gives really really limited tools rather than a cc or a dmg that would give a better tools on my char? This is the main issue here I feel.
As others have said, Astral Shield is amazing not only for the HoT in Divine mode but for the immense damage mitigation it offers. Divine Astral Shield is what lets you and your team withstand focused attacks and/or recover from the brink of defeat.
Also, if the somewhat limited direct healing options disappoint you, consider the nature of the gameplay. All classes have tools to avoid, mitigate, and/or heal damage. In NW, players are not encouraged to stand still and facetank while waiting for a reliable stream of healing. Your heals help offset the damage that they can't avoid, while your buffs help increase their defensive and offensive capabilities.
Another part of the trick to DC is judging when to blow your Divinity and your cooldowns. Personally I try to get by as frugally as I dare up until I or my team are being hammered or until I anticipate an imminent need to get serious. When the pace slows again, I conserve Divinity and resume spamming At-Wills to bank more (to be clear, At-Will spam is required at all times). I can't stress enough how important Divinity conservation is, because a good enemy team will do everything they can to prevent you from building it.
If your primarily interested in pvp then you really should buff your defensive stats and take whateve offensive stast you can get afterwards. A dead Cleric can't provide any healing or damage reduction. The best and cheapest way to do this is to get blue items that buff your defense/deflect/recovery and of course buff your HP as much as possible. Ideally for pvp you'd play a halfling priest with all your points put into con and dex but that might not be your case and you may not want to waste time re-rolling just to pick the ideal class, initial roll set up. You can always shift the rest of your points around with a respec to con and dex or whatever you want even if you didn't start with ideal rolls. That being said, don't expect to be killing people in PVP, if you get any kills it's almost all luck from just landing the last hit or from a dot you have on the guy.
It seems like your still specced as a Devoted Cleric, and not the new Anointed path which is much better for PVP. Assuming this is true I seriously recomend you use HW/AS/SB for your encounters and use Divine Fortune/Foresight for your class features along with Sacred Flame/Astral Seal for at-wills and then use HG/DA for your dailys. You can use flame strike or hammer for one daily if you really want a dmg dealing daily available. Neither of them are outstanding though. That build, with decent defensive stats should let you survive and help your team out. As people have already said you're not a heal bot, you're primary roll is providing damage reduction, lots of it, and some passive healing plus other useful buffs or debuss on the enemy. Also, youre feats are going to have a lot to do with it...I have no idea what your feat set up looks like but you're heroic feats should look be:
Greater Fortune 3/3
Toughness 3/3
Holy Resolve 3/3
Weapon Mastery 3/3
Repurpose Soul 3/3
Cleanse 1/3
Bountiful Fortune 4/5
There is literally no other useful way to place your heroic feast, as stupid as that may seem, so I strongly suggest you use this as your set up. After that you would probably want to take righteous as you're primary spec for PVP. You need to put 10 points into faithful no matter what, so you can pick up Benefit of Foresight. You're first 5 points can go into either deepstones, or enduring relief, whichever you prefer but put them all in one or ther other, don't split them. Deepstone's is probably a little better, especially if you use DA but neither is anything outstanding. You then need 5 points in righteous rage of tempus (must have) and 5 points in ethereal boon (must have for a primary pvp spec, you don't really need this for more pve oriented builds) you then have 5 points to spend to get to healing step which you will of course put 5 points into. I've never gone that far into righteousness before so I'm not sure what the best thing to take is. I'd probably take divine advantage, reducing combat advandate dmg is pretty useful, but you could probably do with only 2 points there and put some into power of opression if you wanted. If you want more healing and more viability on the PVE spec 20-25 points into faithful. Use at least one point in Rising Hope. I'ts totally worth it.
This is just what I suggest you start with and then you can adapt from there. Like if you feel you have as much healing/dr as you want with two encounters then use a damage or control one for your third option. FF actually heals for a lot, more than any spell except a healing word maybe. It heals for double the dmg it does so that's pretty good, good burst heal. Of course it's hard to use it continously in PVP if you are also using AS but you can use it when you need it and cast it normally the rest of the time to generate DP. It does decent dmg and provides a nice slow
Dude, my cleric is able to generate enough divinity to ALWAYS use Astral Shield and Bastion of Health with divinity. My Q is Sunburst, always spam it on cooldown, average AoE heal and damage, plus nice AP gain.
I have no problems healing any type of raid, im pretty tanky for a cleric (25k hp, 1800 defense), i got +5k recovery so my astral shield is down like 4 secs tops.
So your problem is either the way you are playing, or your char is poorly feated/equipped. Not hating bro.
Dude, my cleric is able to generate enough divinity to ALWAYS use Astral Shield and Bastion of Health with divinity. My Q is Sunburst, always spam it on cooldown, average AoE heal and damage, plus nice AP gain.
I have no problems healing any type of raid, im pretty tanky for a cleric (25k hp, 1800 defense), i got +5k recovery so my astral shield is down like 4 secs tops.
So your problem is either the way you are playing, or your char is poorly feated/equipped. Not hating bro.
...that +5k recovery is a waste of stats:( spec into power so your heals are stronger.... I have 3.5k/4k on my two clerics and my cd is 5 seconds... 1 second is not worth 1000 stats
...that +5k recovery is a waste of stats:( spec into power so your heals are stronger.... I have 3.5k/4k on my two clerics and my cd is 5 seconds... 1 second is not worth 1000 stats
I have to second this. Definitely not worth it. Grab some crit strike and try to get your crit around 30% or so. Otherwise, stack some power. You'll notice that sunburst, forgemaster, and even bastion become pretty darn good heals. Your Astral Seals will also be far more effective (your rogue will love you!).
25k HP / 1800 Defense isn't very tanky for a cleric. It's probably good enough if you only PVE, but I wouldn't step into a PVP match with those stats.
You should dodge a bit more cause I notice you're being attacked with a full stamina bar, I also notice that you walk into a lot of red attacks probably unintentionally; i think you also worry too much about the dog. Dunno why I mentioned the dog part just bothered me cause it just dies in like one hit.
There are a couple of strategies you can follow in pvp depending on your playstyle and who you are fighting against.
a combination of effects to help: Ethereal boon + word of healing + foresight (+divine fortune if you want to use a class feature here - mileage may vary)
word has a fast cd and 3 charges - when it comes off of cooldown you gain divine power. You also gain divine power when it comes off cooldown in divine mode.
astral shield will not be useful against a cc heavy enemy - they will keep knocking you out of it. don't bother.
I have never had good luck with hammer of fate but others swear by it. I prefer flame strike since it deals almost as much damage and has a huge area of effect. I also use guardian of faith for the heal and the stun - its one the few great cc spells we have.
Daunting light is your hardest hitting spell - learn to aim it - shoot mobs every chance you can to get the hang of it.
I have started to use mainly word of healing, forgefire flame ( damage and healing) and daunting light in pvp.
if I find im getting killed too fast I swap in break the spirit and searing light since I wont have time to heal.
with anointed I use exaltation instead of forgefire. ( I run several healer's using different builds and gear combos)
it all depends on how squishy your party is compared to the enemy - not every match will use the same spell list.
EDIT: there is very little you can do to mitigate the damage output of a HR since you have no cc immunity yourself nor can you cc him.
EDIT #2: mot of my HR experinces are -==> What the... where is he ? oh im dead. (and that's with my tanky anointed champion build) seriously wow. You try to dodge move away from them and that dang tangle vine drags you back to your death.
There are a couple of strategies you can follow in pvp depending on your playstyle and who you are fighting against.
a combination of effects to help: Ethereal boon + word of healing + foresight (+divine fortune if you want to use a class feature here - mileage may vary)
word has a fast cd and 3 charges - when it comes off of cooldown you gain divine power. You also gain divine power when it comes off cooldown in divine mode.
astral shield will not be useful against a cc heavy enemy - they will keep knocking you out of it. don't bother.
I have never had good luck with hammer of fate but others swear by it. I prefer flame strike since it deals almost as much damage and has a huge area of effect. I also use guardian of faith for the heal and the stun - its one the few great cc spells we have.
Daunting light is your hardest hitting spell - learn to aim it - shoot mobs every chance you can to get the hang of it.
I have started to use mainly word of healing, forgefire flame ( damage and healing) and daunting light in pvp.
if I find im getting killed too fast I swap in break the spirit and searing light since I wont have time to heal.
with anointed I use exaltation instead of forgefire. ( I run several healer's using different builds and gear combos)
it all depends on how squishy your party is compared to the enemy - not every match will use the same spell list.
EDIT: there is very little you can do to mitigate the damage output of a HR since you have no cc immunity yourself nor can you cc him.
EDIT #2: mot of my HR experinces are -==> What the... where is he ? oh im dead. (and that's with my tanky anointed champion build) seriously wow. You try to dodge move away from them and that dang tangle vine drags you back to your death.
Please don't encourage the OP not to use Astral Shield; not using it correctly was one of his issues! AS is most definitely worth it regardless of the possibility that you may be knocked out of it.
HRs are not that big of a deal to an appropriately tanky DC. Part of why you might be struggling with them is that your spell selection makes you squishy. Daunting Light in PvP? Fun for trolling disorganized PUGs with subpar gear, but tends to help get you killed by strong players. Forgemaster's is nice and all, but only if your intended target is in your face and still living. Aimed Shots are easily defeated by inflicting any damage or by breaking line of sight. Astral Shield also protects you from an HR you can't immediately target.
Some people like Guardian of Faith, but I just don't get it. HAMSTER damage, HAMSTER healing, single target, telegraphed animation, short prone. If the prone is what you want, Flame Strike will do that and deliver far more damage, provided that you can aim the center splat on the target.
Comments
-You never even need 4 pips
-also it seems you never use your hw and use bastion instead...
- you use bastion when everyone is above 50% hp which is silly b/c the cd is long in the first place so when you actually need it; the reason most of us don't use bastion is b/c the cd is so long and you use it in divine mode when like I said, they don't even need instant healing
-you put your AS down before an enemy is even nearby to attack wasting the cd
Try to change things and see if you are still having a lot of trouble, I'd advise you take FF or SB instead of bastion
I forgot to mention that most of my concernes are pvp related.
I do realise most of the things you guys wrote, still I feel weird that if cleric is not a 100% healer class and we have to use more than just healing spells/skills... It should put more emphasis on the couple of healing spells even more! I mean if I put just one healing spell on my bar (since I shouldn't use them all they aren't worth it) I feel that lousy one skill should grant significantly more healing power... or else I just skip it out to a dmg or a cc or whatever and I stop bother healing others completely, since it doesn't worth using that spell at all!
Why would I use a healing spell that gives really really limited tools rather than a cc or a dmg that would give a better tools on my char? This is the main issue here I feel.
For my DC, I play as a DPS, not a healer. I have break the spirit, forge fire and astral shield. Even as a DPS, with most of my feats in the DPS tree and not the heal tree, I use AS. It still saves people. The exact level of how amazing this ability is, can not be over-stated. The oracle DC is not meant to be a straight healer. They're equvelent to shaman healers in WoW, if you will. It can be done. But the rest of the group better be prepared to keep themselves up too.
As others have said, Astral Shield is amazing not only for the HoT in Divine mode but for the immense damage mitigation it offers. Divine Astral Shield is what lets you and your team withstand focused attacks and/or recover from the brink of defeat.
Also, if the somewhat limited direct healing options disappoint you, consider the nature of the gameplay. All classes have tools to avoid, mitigate, and/or heal damage. In NW, players are not encouraged to stand still and facetank while waiting for a reliable stream of healing. Your heals help offset the damage that they can't avoid, while your buffs help increase their defensive and offensive capabilities.
Another part of the trick to DC is judging when to blow your Divinity and your cooldowns. Personally I try to get by as frugally as I dare up until I or my team are being hammered or until I anticipate an imminent need to get serious. When the pace slows again, I conserve Divinity and resume spamming At-Wills to bank more (to be clear, At-Will spam is required at all times). I can't stress enough how important Divinity conservation is, because a good enemy team will do everything they can to prevent you from building it.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
It seems like your still specced as a Devoted Cleric, and not the new Anointed path which is much better for PVP. Assuming this is true I seriously recomend you use HW/AS/SB for your encounters and use Divine Fortune/Foresight for your class features along with Sacred Flame/Astral Seal for at-wills and then use HG/DA for your dailys. You can use flame strike or hammer for one daily if you really want a dmg dealing daily available. Neither of them are outstanding though. That build, with decent defensive stats should let you survive and help your team out. As people have already said you're not a heal bot, you're primary roll is providing damage reduction, lots of it, and some passive healing plus other useful buffs or debuss on the enemy. Also, youre feats are going to have a lot to do with it...I have no idea what your feat set up looks like but you're heroic feats should look be:
Greater Fortune 3/3
Toughness 3/3
Holy Resolve 3/3
Weapon Mastery 3/3
Repurpose Soul 3/3
Cleanse 1/3
Bountiful Fortune 4/5
There is literally no other useful way to place your heroic feast, as stupid as that may seem, so I strongly suggest you use this as your set up. After that you would probably want to take righteous as you're primary spec for PVP. You need to put 10 points into faithful no matter what, so you can pick up Benefit of Foresight. You're first 5 points can go into either deepstones, or enduring relief, whichever you prefer but put them all in one or ther other, don't split them. Deepstone's is probably a little better, especially if you use DA but neither is anything outstanding. You then need 5 points in righteous rage of tempus (must have) and 5 points in ethereal boon (must have for a primary pvp spec, you don't really need this for more pve oriented builds) you then have 5 points to spend to get to healing step which you will of course put 5 points into. I've never gone that far into righteousness before so I'm not sure what the best thing to take is. I'd probably take divine advantage, reducing combat advandate dmg is pretty useful, but you could probably do with only 2 points there and put some into power of opression if you wanted. If you want more healing and more viability on the PVE spec 20-25 points into faithful. Use at least one point in Rising Hope. I'ts totally worth it.
This is just what I suggest you start with and then you can adapt from there. Like if you feel you have as much healing/dr as you want with two encounters then use a damage or control one for your third option. FF actually heals for a lot, more than any spell except a healing word maybe. It heals for double the dmg it does so that's pretty good, good burst heal. Of course it's hard to use it continously in PVP if you are also using AS but you can use it when you need it and cast it normally the rest of the time to generate DP. It does decent dmg and provides a nice slow
I have no problems healing any type of raid, im pretty tanky for a cleric (25k hp, 1800 defense), i got +5k recovery so my astral shield is down like 4 secs tops.
So your problem is either the way you are playing, or your char is poorly feated/equipped. Not hating bro.
I have to second this. Definitely not worth it. Grab some crit strike and try to get your crit around 30% or so. Otherwise, stack some power. You'll notice that sunburst, forgemaster, and even bastion become pretty darn good heals. Your Astral Seals will also be far more effective (your rogue will love you!).
25k HP / 1800 Defense isn't very tanky for a cleric. It's probably good enough if you only PVE, but I wouldn't step into a PVP match with those stats.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
a combination of effects to help: Ethereal boon + word of healing + foresight (+divine fortune if you want to use a class feature here - mileage may vary)
word has a fast cd and 3 charges - when it comes off of cooldown you gain divine power. You also gain divine power when it comes off cooldown in divine mode.
astral shield will not be useful against a cc heavy enemy - they will keep knocking you out of it. don't bother.
I have never had good luck with hammer of fate but others swear by it. I prefer flame strike since it deals almost as much damage and has a huge area of effect. I also use guardian of faith for the heal and the stun - its one the few great cc spells we have.
Daunting light is your hardest hitting spell - learn to aim it - shoot mobs every chance you can to get the hang of it.
I have started to use mainly word of healing, forgefire flame ( damage and healing) and daunting light in pvp.
if I find im getting killed too fast I swap in break the spirit and searing light since I wont have time to heal.
with anointed I use exaltation instead of forgefire. ( I run several healer's using different builds and gear combos)
it all depends on how squishy your party is compared to the enemy - not every match will use the same spell list.
EDIT: there is very little you can do to mitigate the damage output of a HR since you have no cc immunity yourself nor can you cc him.
EDIT #2: mot of my HR experinces are -==> What the... where is he ? oh im dead. (and that's with my tanky anointed champion build) seriously wow. You try to dodge move away from them and that dang tangle vine drags you back to your death.
Please don't encourage the OP not to use Astral Shield; not using it correctly was one of his issues! AS is most definitely worth it regardless of the possibility that you may be knocked out of it.
HRs are not that big of a deal to an appropriately tanky DC. Part of why you might be struggling with them is that your spell selection makes you squishy. Daunting Light in PvP? Fun for trolling disorganized PUGs with subpar gear, but tends to help get you killed by strong players. Forgemaster's is nice and all, but only if your intended target is in your face and still living. Aimed Shots are easily defeated by inflicting any damage or by breaking line of sight. Astral Shield also protects you from an HR you can't immediately target.
Some people like Guardian of Faith, but I just don't get it. HAMSTER damage, HAMSTER healing, single target, telegraphed animation, short prone. If the prone is what you want, Flame Strike will do that and deliver far more damage, provided that you can aim the center splat on the target.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH