PvP Suggestions

mctankypants

The appeal has been made countless times. I'm asking devs to seriously think about moving up any timeline they have for new pvp content.

We have a solid community here that has contributed countless guides and are very active on the forums offering help and advice.

clearlyavirgin

If cryptic is one thing, it is not fast. However we do know they plan on releasing a new expansion 3-4 months after Shadowmantle.

mbllanes199

Im calling for PVP to be totally remove from this mostly PVE game, this has cause much of the cry and nerf of characters, based on the game design and the focus of update, we can assume that this game is mostly PVE and PVP has no place in Neverwinter D&D game. LOL.

mctankypants

@Mbllanes. While that is certainly true in regards to a constant balancing act based on pvp and it's impact on pve, there are many players that enjoy testing their skills vs. a human combatant rather than AI.
I would argue that pvp can in fact be a huge mainstay of Neverwinter solely based on my years of D&D gaming. In pve you simply learn patterns and cycles. The fast pace and ever changing battlefield of pvp is a challenge that beckons to some of us.
Now that I'm done waxing poetic like, a good portion of changes (for the better) that have come out have been suggested by the pvp community. Don't sell them short based on your personal feelings about pvp.

clearlyavirgin

mbllanes199 wrote: »

Im calling for PVP to be totally remove from this mostly PVE game, this has cause much of the cry and nerf of characters, based on the game design and the focus of update, we can assume that this game is mostly PVE and PVP has no place in Neverwinter D&D game. LOL.

You are so wrong in such a big way.

First off, neverwinter is not a D&D game, it is a D&D based game.
Secondly, who are the biggest most well known guilds, who are the most active people, who are the people posting all the guides, the theorycrafting etc in the forums? The PvPers.

The game may not have been planned on being a PvP game, but there is no denying the majority of active players are PvPers.

todesfaelle

I'm not part of any of the hardcore PVP guilds but I agree. It's high time PVP got some new content. Maps that are a tad more complex and fun than our current ones. If not new PVP maps, at least a duel system would be great. I enjoy casual dueling, just spending time testing your mettle with someone else's. But that's something I can only experience when I'm unfortunate enough to be on the losing team and people in my party have already left. Sometimes people aren't so kind to give out opportunities to duel in those situations. A duel system would provide good events for our currently malnourished guild system too.

The current maps we have could also use some refurbishing. Hotenow Domination is great as it is but adding a couple more obstacles would be great too. It concise and direct, and all the areas in the map are fun to fight on. I most especially like fighting in the overpass above tower 2. For Rivenscar Ruins, there are certain areas in the map that do not get accessed much, particularly the elevations in each of the team's base nodes. The elevations would be nice if the map supported a higher population of players to actually make more strategic use of it, but sadly the demand for the player's presence lies in tower 2. Most encounters happen in tower 2, and it'd be great if we got more obstacles near that place and maybe a more accessible staircases leading to the elevations around tower 2 whenever you go out of the base node. Those are just some ideas, in case any of the devs are reading our posts.e

I'm pretty sure people will say that PVP in a DnD game doesn't make sense, but we have to keep in mind that aside from being a DnD game, it's also an MMORPG. PVP is a huge part of an MMO, specially one with a beautiful combat system like NW's.

munkey81

clearlyavirgin wrote: »

You are so wrong in such a big way.

First off, neverwinter is not a D&D game, it is a D&D based game.
Secondly, who are the biggest most well known guilds, who are the most active people, who are the people posting all the guides, the theorycrafting etc in the forums? The PvPers.

The game may not have been planned on being a PvP game, but there is no denying the majority of active players are PvPers.

This.....

I believe the vast majority of players in this game are PvP'rs.

Its so **** simple for Cryptic. They made this awesome utility of the Foundry. Which the foundry creators blow Cryptics ideas and dungeons out of the water with some of there quests.

Let them Design the PvP Maps!

It seems a no brainer to me. Allow them to create PvP maps, with player designed objectives. Let people specifically Q for those PvP maps. After 2 weeks, whichever map has the most votes, simple add it into the rotation of 2 terrible maps we have right now.

Problem solved..were happy

Oh also.

Please..please...Give us a PvP zone! We want a large zone, with no purpose whatsoever other then PvP. I want to challenge entire guilds to PvP matches, not just 5 mans. I want guild royal rumbles. I want to go there by myself and gank other people. Hell, if you did this. I guarantee we'd all shut up for quite some time, the amount of enjoyment we would ALL get out of a completely free to attack zone would be tremendous.

mctankypants

I'd also like to point out that most of the exposure that NW has gotten via Twitch has been by pvp streamers.
Early on when it was raking in thousands of viewers to current day. The interviews that have been done were by players that loved pvp and promoted it heavily.
Lets have this thread have some positive energy rather than why someone doesn't think it fits into their idea of what the game should be.
To quote a great movie Kelly's Heroes "Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball

vasdamas

munkey81 wrote: »

Please..please...Give us a PvP zone! We want a large zone, with no purpose whatsoever other then PvP. I want to challenge entire guilds to PvP matches, not just 5 mans. I want guild royal rumbles. I want to go there by myself and gank other people. Hell, if you did this. I guarantee we'd all shut up for quite some time, the amount of enjoyment we would ALL get out of a completely free to attack zone would be tremendous.

Thisthisthisthis^^^^^

This is what I always wanted and will be waiting for a long time, I guess. Can't imagine the ammount of the dramma ingame and on forums if it happens:D

pointsman

But the problem is that the need to satisfy PVP players' desire for balance ends up diminishing the PVE experience for everyone.

mctankypants

I fully understand where you're coming from Pointsman. The pvp'ers desire for balance also helps the devs find and fix bugs or mechanics that aren't working properly. It's a give and take situation.
I'd like to think that as a community we've had more of a positive impact than a negative one.

yyrkoonstyphoon

I find myself playing pvp more and more, and I think of myself as a pve person. The thing is that it is dynamic and fast, and if you get a bad team, it is over just as fast, rather than spending 35 minutes o get to a boss and figure out your team cannot cut it.

I think the pvp system is still in infancy and is quite immature. Definatly need more maps, and there needs to be an abandon penalty... people simply drop too much.

Also, it would be great to have 1 vs 1 - 5 vs 5 and a challenge mode so you can fight specific people or teams if you agree. My kids have become very interested in playing now that I am doing pvp, however, as soon as the learned We could not vs each other, back to Dota2.

as for balance between pve and pvp, i do not see why they could not make it so the skills have a pvp version. In NWN1, we had a pvp area that applied balancing restrictions on toons that entered the pvp war zone and removed them when they left. the majority of the world was pve, however, we had pvp guilds and massive war zone that linked the 5 cities for a full on pvp capture the flag aspect of the game. it was the life after 40 content (and rp but with no dm client this can never happen here)

ironzerg79

Eh, it's always tough to balance out people who want more PVP with people who perceive PvP has only having detrimental effects on PvE balance.

thestaggy

yyrkoonstyphoon wrote: »

I think the pvp system is still in infancy and is quite immature. Definatly need more maps, and there needs to be an abandon penalty... people simply drop too much.

That is unfair. Some sort of balancing needs to be done in PvP before you start penalising quitters. Coming up against a guild of premades with a random group is not fun and I can understand why people would rather leave and hope for a more equal match. I have never quit but I have camped because it is pointless trying to compete against these powerful premade teams that end up camping outside your spawn point after capping all 3 nodes.

Some kind of ranking/rating system needs to be implemented to keep the premades and experienced PvPers away from the average/new players.

jacksoon

Pvp have bad effects on pve. All time they reduce the atk of 1 skill or reduce the effect of some feats we got on the pve side a big kick in the ball Since on pvp there only 5 or 20 people whit some stat, the mob on pve never got nerfed, they still do a lot of damage and now, thx to the cring pvp comunity, almost all the dungeon are impossible to end whit the min gear score; don't tell me " learn to play", "lern to use your class" because is impossible do it whit the min gear score. We tried in guild whit lowering gear, and come out to be an impossible run on final boss. So stop cry for some pvp balace, the pve comunity is bored. Go play some dota game or hello kitty online

yyrkoonstyphoon

thestaggy wrote: »

That is unfair. Some sort of balancing needs to be done in PvP before you start penalising quitters. Coming up against a guild of premades with a random group is not fun and I can understand why people would rather leave and hope for a more equal match. I have never quit but I have camped because it is pointless trying to compete against these powerful premade teams that end up camping outside your spawn point after capping all 3 nodes.

Some kind of ranking/rating system needs to be implemented to keep the premades and experienced PvPers away from the average/new players.

yeah, i guess it is unfair in that it is incomplete as to what it need to be mature. I should have added some type of ranking system as well, and a challenge mode to allow teams to challenge teams, and maybe even individual and team ladders.

I think the current system is a good start, but there is a need to develop many other aspects of pvp for it to compare to other mmo offerings.

llantiss

I understand the frustration and I have alot of input I would like to provide but lets be real here, no one reads these from cryptic, unless its a nerf, exploit, bug or zen related they've shown during half a year they have ZERO concern about community feedback.

I don't know their timelines and resources but it's obvious PvP related updates are not on the table and are not a priority (they are probably on the bottom of their backlog).

If you guys didn't know there's a http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/devtracker.php where you can see any posts made by the devs, you'll see they fall into the categories mentioned above.

pers3phone

mbllanes199 wrote: »

Im calling for PVP to be totally remove from this mostly PVE game, this has cause much of the cry and nerf of characters, based on the game design and the focus of update, we can assume that this game is mostly PVE and PVP has no place in Neverwinter D&D game. LOL.

There are nerfs that are completely unrelated to PvP. Like AP generation for EF/Chill Strike on Mastery for CW. What about HV stacking? Purely a PvE nerf and one of the most significant ones ever. So your argument falls apart... the devs will nerf and nerf any way, PvP balance or not.

degraafination

llantiss wrote: »

I understand the frustration and I have alot of input I would like to provide but lets be real here, no one reads these from cryptic, unless its a nerf, exploit, bug or zen related they've shown during half a year they have ZERO concern about community feedback.

Yes and no. They listened to people wanting a different dungeon experience besides boss + a zillion adds, and we got Malabog. So that was a step in the right direction.

Now, I agree that the NW community has been giving dozens upon dozens of requests and ideas about PVP, and they haven't done a thing. I'm hoping it's a better-late-than-never scenario, and that we see something, anything, to improve PVP.

yourtorment

mbllanes199 wrote: »

Im calling for PVP to be totally remove from this mostly PVE game, this has cause much of the cry and nerf of characters, based on the game design and the focus of update, we can assume that this game is mostly PVE and PVP has no place in Neverwinter D&D game. LOL.

Remove pvp and the game will close its doors in a month or 2.

PVP is the only endgame that doesnt legit have an ending. Once all the gear has been gotten, the content is dead.

yourtorment

pointsman wrote: »

But the problem is that the need to satisfy PVP players' desire for balance ends up diminishing the PVE experience for everyone.

The pve experience ends in about 2 solid months after toon creation when youve done it all till your eyes bleed.

lol

vorphied

Whether some players want to admit it or not, PvP drives a lot of cash into the game. Players who enjoy being competitive in PvP are more willing to financially support the game when it helps get their new characters geared up more quickly or instantly bumps the quality of an existing character's equipment up a rank for that small, but psychologically significant increase in performance. For the health of the game, PvP needs occasional new content.

As for the argument that PvP has no place in D&D, I think that's been thoroughly debunked in previous threads already.

PvE vs. PvP balance may be a related issue, but it's a distinct one. Adding more PvP content like maps and objectives doesn't necessitate destroying PvE balance.

mctankypants

Lantis, thanks for taking the time to post. As a member of one of the biggest PVP oriented guilds I know you have first hand experience with the sheer number of people that are greatly dissatisfied with the current state of pvp.
If you enjoy pvp or know someone that does, have them comment here and we'll keep the ball rolling.

jintortle

Honestly, Instead of matches. Why not just have a big PVP map like Pirates Skyhold and drop peeps in different spots and just let them bash whoever, whenever they like.

eldarth

If you want Foundry PvP maps -- make sure you vote here:
Poll: Most Important "Big Ticket" Foundry Enhancements

ortzhy

First time i;ve read of how they;re building this game i thought that pvp will be the major direction for them. I am 99% sure (or maybe wishful thinking) that the only reason they didnt invest directly in pvp is couse they want to make Foundry cover that aspect as it will alot more divers and with alot more ideas, from something like this dota came to life and is rly hard not to see the similarities. Who knows maybe something entirely knew will come up from the community... but first foundry must have all the tools ready to use.

mercestes

The problem with 4e and PVP (or D&D in general) is that not all classes are created equal, and they were never meant to be equal. They were always meant to be complementary pieces of a unified whole with only a few builds standing out as exceptional in PvP.

Some classes were meant to deal out gobs of damage, some were meant to help other classes deal gobs of damage, some were meant to heal the other classes dealing gobs of damage, some were meant to absorb or avoid gobs of damage so other classes could do gobs of damage in relative safety, and yet some others were meant to stop monsters from doing gobs of damage to classes absorbing or avoiding gobs of damage so other classes can deal gobs of damage in relative safety.

So any FFA zone setup where any individual person can attack anyone else is simply going to expose which classes and builds are better suited to PvP. Useful attributes such as AoE damage and control just doesn't stack up in PvP.

The only way all classes could be equal is to engage in PvP teams, and ultimately, all PvP teams are created equal. Every required slot is (or should be) filled so it's hard for a particular character to shine through and support characters miss out on the glory.

On the flip side of that, PvP has it's uses as well. Having to mitigate and avoid damage from an intelligent player makes you better at mitigating damage against AI. Dealing and mitigating damage in PvP is a great "tuning" exercise for players.

The attitude should not be "how do we balance classes for PvP." We should approach PvP with the understanding and knowledge that not all classes are created equal and a balance will never exist for PvP. Then let people who want to build for PvP do that, and let people who want to build for PvE do that, and let those individual advantages shine through on their own merit.

And we could facilitate that by allowing characters to store more than one build, in which a player could slot a build for PvP, and one for PvE on the same character. Maybe even three, allowing for PvP, PvE 1v1, and PvE 1v-Many.

PvP has existed in D&D since opposing alignments. It's never been balanced or fair. It doesn't need to be.

llantiss

degraafination wrote: »

Yes and no. They listened to people wanting a different dungeon experience besides boss + a zillion adds, and we got Malabog. So that was a step in the right direction.

Just to clarify, this thread is about pvp, I was commenting in regards to pvp.

ximae

munkey81 wrote: »

This.....

I believe the vast majority of players in this game are PvP'rs.

Its so **** simple for Cryptic. They made this awesome utility of the Foundry. Which the foundry creators blow Cryptics ideas and dungeons out of the water with some of there quests.

Let them Design the PvP Maps!

It seems a no brainer to me. Allow them to create PvP maps, with player designed objectives. Let people specifically Q for those PvP maps. After 2 weeks, whichever map has the most votes, simple add it into the rotation of 2 terrible maps we have right now.

Problem solved..were happy

Oh also.

Please..please...Give us a PvP zone! We want a large zone, with no purpose whatsoever other then PvP. I want to challenge entire guilds to PvP matches, not just 5 mans. I want guild royal rumbles. I want to go there by myself and gank other people. Hell, if you did this. I guarantee we'd all shut up for quite some time, the amount of enjoyment we would ALL get out of a completely free to attack zone would be tremendous.

A big +1 on this

darkzar

munkey81 wrote: »

Please..please...Give us a PvP zone! We want a large zone, with no purpose whatsoever other then PvP. I want to challenge entire guilds to PvP matches, not just 5 mans. I want guild royal rumbles. I want to go there by myself and gank other people. Hell, if you did this. I guarantee we'd all shut up for quite some time, the amount of enjoyment we would ALL get out of a completely free to attack zone would be tremendous.

If only bro, if only...

ayroux

There is SO much feedback alot of players have given to this game regarding PVP.

I know there has been many interviews where Andy V has posted upon the release of the last module that a "big PVP" content is on its way and we will find out soon.

I would guess it will be a similar type thing to GG rather than just adding new maps and gametypes but who knows...


Honestly the entire pvp fix is REALLY simple.

1) Allow Foundry to create pvp maps that people can enjoy however, whenever they want.
2) Introduce NEW pvp maps into current domination.
3) Introduce new game types like slayer and CTF for starters.
4) Create 1 instanced version of each zone where pvp is enabled effectively allowing world pvp for those that choose.
5) Introduce a ranking system for the different modes of pvp. Each mode (domination/slayer/ctf) can have its own "ranking" system...

DONE. Youve given the player base everything they could want which would last a long time in this game and go a long way towards growing the community.