Suggestions for dungeons- difficulty scaling and balance after Module 2

germmaniac

I know the forums are full of threads complaining about the difficulty of various dungeons and a myriad of suggestions on how to counter them. I have read some but not all of them so forgive me if this gets repetitive.
But with Module 2 around the corner, I just feel this needs to be discussed further and hope that it catches the attention of the Devs and we could actually explore a few options of improving the dungeon gameplay/mechanics. So here are a few suggestions:

1. With a sixth character class being added- the Ranger, it seems that the already crowded mix of 5 spots/5 classes may be in jeopardy. So how about increasing the maximum capacity to 6, instead. This will allow a possibility of all six classes participatiung in dungeons as well as make the endless waves of adds that people have been complaining abvout, easier to deal with. And No, I do not intend to ask for increasing capacity each time you add a class. The way I see the current class set-up, I feel it would be great for each of these classes to fill a separate role- 1 Melee Defensive (GF), 1 Melee AOE (GWF), 1 melee single-target DPS/hard-hitter (TR), 1 Ranged defensive/healer (DC), 1 Ranged AoE/CC (CW) and 1 Ranged hard-hitter/dps (HR). This would be a great Set-up to play in dungeons.
2. How about converting the weekend (Saturdays and Sundays) Dungeon Delves to allow mini-raids (2 parties entering simultaneously) in CN, and maybe even MC? Maybe on a weekly or a fortnightly basis with 4-8 events to cover all time zones. This would remarkably reduce the difficulty of CN and make it more appealing to the player-base. Currently, noone (or at least, relatively very few) is willing to do legit CN runs because of the rewards/time ratio.
3. How about a party buff for forming balanced parties (one of each class instead of rolling with 2 CWs/2TRs and a DC...soon to be replaced with 4 HRs and a DC)? Or make the dungeon 10% easier (maybe 10% fewer adds) to complete. I had already started a thread to discuss this, but it had a weak response. You can find it here

We understand that Cryptic/PWI is running a business here, which means that even if this game is F2P, it needs to generate revenue to be functional/feasible. So we completely understand the importance of the Zen store. However, I feel that people willing to spend in real world currency will do so regardless of the in-game economics, because they would like a more customized or pleasant experience. On the other hand, not sure if driving people to the Zen store by making items less accessible and BoP after 6 hour dungeons works. You may only end up in driving these folks out. Why not improve the dungeon experience, which would thereby lead to an increase in Player-base and therefore, the possibility of increased revenues.
Well, feels like I gave more than my two cents worth. How about some of yours? :cool:

germmaniac

Oh, and please try to keep your comments, including criticism, constructive. If you intend to start a Flame War, please take it elsewhere.

schweifer1982

You can duo trio all dungeons.
But not CN and E.spider . Even MC can be done with good team work with trio LEGIT WAY.
Necomers can lead to total frustration .
But i think devs need to alow us enter with current team option.
6 ppl in pt .. lead to more chaos and harder to lead.

"How about a party buff for forming balanced parties (one of each class instead of rolling with 2 CWs/2TRs and a DC...soon to be replaced with 4 HRs and a DC)? Or make the dungeon 10% easier (maybe 10% fewer adds) to complete. I had already started a thread to discuss this, but it had a weak response. "

And y u are rigth about this . The current set up 4 cw 1 DC . Next set up will be 4 HR 1 DC.
Non dps classes have no role expetc dc.

l3thalassassin

The bonus for mixed parties sounds nice, but shouldn't be needed imo.

The main reason why running 1 DC, X CW X TR is that other classes don't bring the same feats needed for a quick and smooth dungeon run. In the current set-up of "Kill the boss while keeping the adds occupied, dead or otherwise" CWs and TRs usually do a better job than GWFs and GFs, maybe exept for the very experienced melees. To me, that means that either some of the classes need a rework or the dungeons need to be rethought, maybe both. Of the two, the dungeon rework is the easier but less preferable option imo (like adding adds with CC immunity, or bosses with a lot of ranged adds, so simply tossing them around doesn't work anymore).

germmaniac

l3thalassassin wrote: »

The bonus for mixed parties sounds nice, but shouldn't be needed imo.

The main reason why running 1 DC, X CW X TR is that other classes don't bring the same feats needed for a quick and smooth dungeon run. In the current set-up of "Kill the boss while keeping the adds occupied, dead or otherwise" CWs and TRs usually do a better job than GWFs and GFs, maybe exept for the very experienced melees. To me, that means that either some of the classes need a rework or the dungeons need to be rethought, maybe both. Of the two, the dungeon rework is the easier but less preferable option imo (like adding adds with CC immunity, or bosses with a lot of ranged adds, so simply tossing them around doesn't work anymore).

While this is a perfectly legitimate explanation of why you would prefer going with more than one of a single class, it does not justify the cold shoulder to the GFs and GWFs (I know there may be a bias on my part since my main is a GWF). At the bottom of this, it is still a role-playing game. And people should be able to pick any race/class and play this game and feel wanted in the game. Or at least have a fair chance of having a pleasant experience.
Probably, this does not only require effort on the part of the Devs, but some initiative on the part of the Neverwinter Community to show some maturity and accept all classes.

schweifer1982

l3thalassassin wrote: »

The bonus for mixed parties sounds nice, but shouldn't be needed imo.

The main reason why running 1 DC, X CW X TR is that other classes don't bring the same feats needed for a quick and smooth dungeon run. In the current set-up of "Kill the boss while keeping the adds occupied, dead or otherwise" CWs and TRs usually do a better job than GWFs and GFs, maybe exept for the very experienced melees. To me, that means that either some of the classes need a rework or the dungeons need to be rethought, maybe both. Of the two, the dungeon rework is the easier but less preferable option imo (like adding adds with CC immunity, or bosses with a lot of ranged adds, so simply tossing them around doesn't work anymore).

This is your option my otion is 1 GWF (good senti + 1 tr or cw or gf or 1 more dps GWF can duo all dungeon)
So the best party is GWF + somone no need dc .
Gwf on adds & the other one doing single dps on boss.
I have done all dungeon with my 8.3 k gs CW wife Legit way .
Few left E.spider CN MC .(you can't duo those)(Mc can be done with trio GWF-GWF-GWF or GWF-+any interrupting skilled char)
The problem is to find nice ppl hou help y enter insta & wait until first boss killed i hate to kik any one its not fair.

schweifer1982

germmaniac wrote: »

While this is a perfectly legitimate explanation of why you would prefer going with more than one of a single class, it does not justify the cold shoulder to the GFs and GWFs (I know there may be a bias on my part since my main is a GWF). At the bottom of this, it is still a role-playing game. And people should be able to pick any race/class and play this game and feel wanted in the game. Or at least have a fair chance of having a pleasant experience.
Probably, this does not only require effort on the part of the Devs, but some initiative on the part of the Neverwinter Community to show some maturity and accept all classes.

The biggest problem is ppl don't speak common and cannot understand what y say, best way to fail dungeon.

germmaniac

schweifer1982 wrote: »

This is your option my otion is 1 GWF (good senti + 1 tr or cw or gf or 1 more dps GWF can duo all dungeon)
So the best party is GWF + somone no need dc .
Gwf on adds & the other one doing single dps on boss.
I have done all dungeon with my 8.3 k gs CW wife Legit way .
Few left E.spider CN MC .(you can't duo those)(Mc can be done with trio GWF-GWF-GWF or GWF-+any interrupting skilled char)
The problem is to find nice ppl hou help y enter insta & wait until first boss killed i hate to kik any one its not fair.

Your GWF seems to have a GS of 15.3k. Not something most people would have when they begin to collect their gear by doing T1/T2. Will be more in the range of 9-11k. Do not think that going with fewer than 5 is a viable option for most of us in such a case.
Also, with 6, the only person having a slightly difficult time might be the DC, since that is one extra person to heal. Most dungeons are already chaotic with adds, not sure how one extra person could make it much worse. Apart from additional skill animation (which could be reduced in settings if necessary), that is. Instead, with the additional help, people could clear adds much faster without the need to glitch or bump or even avoid mobs. And complete the dungeon within times at least closer to those indicated in the dungeon info sheet.

lionmaruu0

For me, just need to make or reduce the rate of what adds spawn and take out some of the big aoe damage dealers from the adds of most hard bosses that the dungeons will be a lot more doable with random team. Most problems on boss fights are from all the ground red and lots of adds that keep spawning.

this new proposed setup make GF/GWF more easily accepted on all runs and takes out the burden that this game shoves on the Control Wizards.