I have to say this is a great idea and id love to take it a step further!
If you start "scaling" things with solo options, allow players to farm 2 man groups or 3 man or progress and have 10 man groups too!
I mean if you create the "monster power" system or an "adjusting scale" where the HP/mob count/drop rates are all affected based on multipliers... The possibilities are endless.
I know people have LONG been asking for 10 man raids+ so this could be an "out" for that. I imagine in a 10 man group the drop rates would be double a 5 man group so the incentive is a fun run with more people and a higher chance that youll see A T2 piece drop....
I have heard this before on the Star Trek Online forums. The best gear were from the STFs which is their version of Dungeons. Many people didn't get the gear because they did not like to team up or to play the STFs themselves. The Dev team ended up removing the gear from the STFs and placed it in a reputation system. This made the gear available to all players. The STFs are still the quickest way to get them but it is not the only way.
Nice idea OP, maybe something similiar to scaling, i play mostly solo but sometimes i play with brother so it will be nice when we can go (or me alone) do dungeons with scaling content in it for number of players in team (1 to 5). I'm not antisocial but in mmos i dont like this fast pace ppl's doing dungeons, or constantly exploiting (this is unworthy i dont like do this).
I am all for this. Even though I do like running with other players. It is just hard and frustrating to have to deal with people who think their Elitist and all noobs need to be kicked from the party because they do not play the way they do. It just ruins the fun for me. Doing scaled content solo or group can be refreshing and keep peeps interested.
More options for the player base is good as it keeps players around much longer. I've played quite a bit of mmos, and I have to say that NWO is becoming one of my favorites of all time. When it comes to dungeons and grouping, however, very few games manage to get it right. Due to various social issues mentioned here, allowing those who choose not to group up an alternative to running dungeons would greatly enhance their enjoyment of the game.
If implemented this should have little to no impact on those who enjoy grouping. It's more work for the devs to come up with a fair reward system for both player types, but imho, it's a worthwhile pursuit towards building a loyal customer base.
And i think this will not destroy the grouping of mmo i honestly help cause when ppl's got other opition to run dungeon (scaling solo or with one friend) and dont must to do full 5 grp (cause they dont enjoy rushing or explioting or being kikced cause they dont know well dungeon becaue "see above"), then there will be warmer welcome for players who want to do 5 grp (cause lack of it) end maybe then we see better culture of 5-man
I've argued for more solo content, or solo progression paths, in other MMOs before, and I've often heard the argument that if you're playing an MMO you should party or find a solo-game.
I'm going to disagree with that sentiment. An MMO is distinct from a solo game because it has a social experience along with the game-play experience. That social experience can take many forms and be on many levels.
Consider how many dungeon pick-up groups run. Once in the instance, there might be a "hi" or two, but then it's off to the mad rush to complete the mechanical task at hand. Most of the members don't type anything or use voice chat or emotes or anything at all. In fact, if one's too "chatty" there can be pressure to stop it since it can detract from speed of completing the content. Now consider a solo player who is in complete control of how fast they run the content they're in. If they slow down to type on a global channel, or to respond to a whisper from a friend, or whatnot, it's all good. This player might be having a far more enriching social experience in the MMO, and be enriching the experience for others all the more. Finally, in some groups, it's been the exact opposite of social. Not just quiet and uncommunicative, but rather the party would rather we act like more efficient NPCs. If only we'd memorize absolutely everything, observe and react in split seconds to every telegraphed attack, and get our timing perfect on every movement and power, then we'd be ideal party members -- maximum efficiency and most rewards/hour! But, imo, that's not a person, that's a better bot.
I would even like to see some content that is solo-mandatory and designed with the class in mind. A handful of class-specific quests that are done in roughly the same place in character progression for each class would be great.
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dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I would even like to see some content that is solo-mandatory and designed with the class in mind. A handful of class-specific quests that are done in roughly the same place in character progression for each class would be great.
There are class specific quest lines. There are race specific ones too. There is some overlap like fighters both sharing the quest line and elves sharing their quests as well. They are also not solo-mandatory.
Well said guys and some nice additional ideas too! I wish I could quote you all.
Guess many of you do find random group frustrating. Everyone has different playstyles, everyone treats this game differently, however in a teamwork based game, synergy is crucial but it's very unlikely to find people want to co-operate, or even bother to socialize. Like you said, some of them like to rush, exploit, drop or bug bosses etc to maximize the loot/hour efficiency, and sadly it's mainly what I find by queue/LFG shout. As a CW, I personally enjoy the challenge, either with a friend or two, or build a more balanced character to kill through and earn up the drops making them truly worthwhile.
I played Warcraft III, Diablo II for 10 years and then Diablo III came out I played more than a year now I enjoyed solo as much as team up with my friends (making vods about class promo, solo build diversity and how we melt throu the hardest content etc ahh those were the days...)
I found Neverwinter from Archon's stream several months ago and I played since then. Honestly, in all games so far, it has one of the best combat systems, I really love the controls and graphics of the game, it's just so brilliantly done. I truly hope they will introduce us hardcore old school RPG/RTS players a platform. Maximizing the experience for players of all types, isn't it what a great game about, you reckon?
Many thanks for the support guys once again, I read all the replies and I really appreciate them!
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited November 2013
I generally think of RPGs as an adventure, like the story is specifically about my character (even if I play on a server with a million other people that are mostly doing the same quests as I am ). I like to crawl around dungeons, carefully managing my supplies and fighting challenging bosses by my self. At the same time, I don't mind the social aspect om MMOs and I have changed guilds a few time just to find players I like to party with.
The foundry has a lot of potential for solo content, but the lack of loot and the fact that you can't have bosses makes it unattractive for me.
I have found a couple of hidden caves while doing the solo campaign, but they were very short and very unrewarding.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
There's plenty of content that soloers can play through, especially considering the Foundry. If we consider content that can be soloed vs content that can only be run as a party, I think there's more solo content than group content at present. A lot of it is at lower levels; but even at the 60 level-cap, I don't think it's badly unbalanced. What is unbalanced at the cap is the degree of progression reward.
I have to stop at this point and give credit to the developers -- the new campaign systems go a long ways to addressing this issue. I think it still needs some work though, but I'm excited for where it can lead the game.
I'm one that feels that even the very best top-end best in slot gear should be accessible to a soloer, with no more play-time/effort invested for it than a group-content player. I'm sure that would raise some hackles -- shouldn't the best reward by far go to those who're in parties? I have to say no, it shouldn't. Just because one is in a party doesn't mean the spirit of group activity as a social experience is being served well or even at all. Most parties I've been in, as I said above, have been sterile silent affairs -- players are only in them for the far greater rewards. A game should equitably reward people for playing the many diverse ways they like to play, and offer them the tools and opportunities to be in a social environment while they play.
the problem for foundry is that its too **** easy and there are no rewards except for ad from daily quests
for me a challenge would be solo killing t2 bosses, though they seem to be on the easy side and the only difficulty is adds, mc last boss would be fun solo if they changed valindra part, removed choke and made it so any attack/certain dmg could interrupt portals
what cryptic calls dungeon bosses are easy enough for solo play, theres one action game that added mobs like that in open world, ofc without the epic loot, and it has been the best and most fun gameplay experience ive had in any game. spending 10~30 min to kill a single monster, when each of your mistakes could be the last. thats how solo should feel like - an epic challenge not a boring grind like t2 dungeons, ppl who are too bad for it can always party. the reason i dont play that game is because its run by THE worst company ever created
I've always been in favor of being able to choose the challenge you're up for, whether solo or in a group. Some people like super-hard stuff, and others like to steamroll.
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djangowhiteMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14Arc User
edited November 2013
They could implement it this way,(standard)5 man dungeon/optional coop 2 man dungeon half monster stats and hp that allows solo for really strong solo players with quite the challenge. If they did this it would keep me playing for years to come.
They could implement it this way,(standard)5 man dungeon/optional coop 2 man dungeon half monster stats and hp that allows solo for really strong solo players with quite the challenge. If they did this it would keep me playing for years to come.
the problem with solo now isnt the monster stats its constant adds, imagine doing solo fh last boss with gwf or gf, if u had enough regen, hp and def and monster stats were low, u could be there forever getting chain ccd their bosses are made as solo stuff, and then to scale for party they added 2890625629572052 adds
Cryptic should just add more hard bosses to foundry. If the bosses are put in their own room it would make exploits almost impossible. For Example a boss room could come with a preloaded boss in the room. If you take the boss out of the room or bring guards into the room then no loot would be awarded. These boss rooms could also be sealed with the same timed gates that are in the Cryptic made dungeons. This would give authors and adventurers more things to play with and provide nearly unlimited content.
This is a good idea. Foundry authors could edit just a few things about the room -- things that couldn't possibly affect the fight.
On the same logic they could establish rewards for the end-chest and a number of skill nods and regular chests based on the number and difficulty of encounters, number of rooms or size of the map and make the Foundry worth your time.
Not that I play Foundries only for rewards, but usually I spend little time in game and I wanna get something useful out of it. Sometimes I have time to play Foundries just for the hell of it and some of them are really good. Now, I understand why we have these restrictions, but it's a shame that no mater how much work and creativity you put in creating a foundry, you can't make it worthwhile, and most players will chose the shortest and easiest Foundries, just so they can get the daily AD reward. If it's ok to spend one hour in Dungeons and get an epic piece of gear, why isn't it ok to do the same in a Foundry?
Hopefully in time they will create a better loot system for Foundries.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
If it's ok to spend one hour in Dungeon and get an epic piece of gear, why isn't it ok to do the same in a Foundry?
Hopefully in time they will create a better loot system for Foundries.
That was my argument in the past as well.
I'd happily play some longer more difficult foundries if it meant epic loot. As it stands I've got a couple I play because I like them and they serve as a testing ground. I generally don't even bother with the daily any more and haven't looked at a new foundry mission in a long time.
This is a fantastic idea from the original OP. Would love to see it implemented as well
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obsiddiaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,025Arc User
edited November 2013
I'd be happy to play solo dungeons. Because waiting in a queue forever
(or begging on the feed for someone to take a 9.6k CW) is near hopeless. Mind numbing waits... I'd settle for a messy pug if only to see the dungeons! *sigh*
Of course I can always get in PvP, and be wiped across the floor for 10 minutes.
Did you really think anyone could steal the power of the god of thieves?
Sharendar was obviously trying to make solo-able endgame content and it was a good step in the right direction. maybe the shadow-mantle zones will expand on that concept and work the gear/bonuses further twards the top end.
Great idea. I also wish there was a solo option just so that I have something to do with my permastealth rogue in pve. Either way, its not always easy to find a party or a good party, so I think this would be a fantastic option.
This seems to be a popular idea! I like it. Its certainly doable. You just gotta get them to do it.
For the most part I tend to run solo. And I'd rather solo half these dungeons and get my teeth kicked in rather than end up in half the groups I've been put in before.
I think "dumbing down" a dungeon for a soloer, or smaller group could work, but t1/t2 super random drops in harder solo areas would be nice too.
Well that and fixing the queue system.
[img][/img]
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kaiserschmarrnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 390
edited November 2013
+1 good idea.
Pugging tier 1 is usually easy. But tier 2 can be a pain if your guild has an inactive day and you try it with clueless randoms who will either ninja loot, be a liability in combat or kick you from the group once you beat the boss. A solo option would be awesome.
Comments
If you start "scaling" things with solo options, allow players to farm 2 man groups or 3 man or progress and have 10 man groups too!
I mean if you create the "monster power" system or an "adjusting scale" where the HP/mob count/drop rates are all affected based on multipliers... The possibilities are endless.
I know people have LONG been asking for 10 man raids+ so this could be an "out" for that. I imagine in a 10 man group the drop rates would be double a 5 man group so the incentive is a fun run with more people and a higher chance that youll see A T2 piece drop....
Makes sense to me.
Thank you! That means a lot I really appreciated it
I'm tired of having to run party dungeons with random noobs and rushers.
If this does get implemented, consider extending it to skirmishes as well.
More options for the player base is good as it keeps players around much longer. I've played quite a bit of mmos, and I have to say that NWO is becoming one of my favorites of all time. When it comes to dungeons and grouping, however, very few games manage to get it right. Due to various social issues mentioned here, allowing those who choose not to group up an alternative to running dungeons would greatly enhance their enjoyment of the game.
If implemented this should have little to no impact on those who enjoy grouping. It's more work for the devs to come up with a fair reward system for both player types, but imho, it's a worthwhile pursuit towards building a loyal customer base.
I'm going to disagree with that sentiment. An MMO is distinct from a solo game because it has a social experience along with the game-play experience. That social experience can take many forms and be on many levels.
Consider how many dungeon pick-up groups run. Once in the instance, there might be a "hi" or two, but then it's off to the mad rush to complete the mechanical task at hand. Most of the members don't type anything or use voice chat or emotes or anything at all. In fact, if one's too "chatty" there can be pressure to stop it since it can detract from speed of completing the content. Now consider a solo player who is in complete control of how fast they run the content they're in. If they slow down to type on a global channel, or to respond to a whisper from a friend, or whatnot, it's all good. This player might be having a far more enriching social experience in the MMO, and be enriching the experience for others all the more. Finally, in some groups, it's been the exact opposite of social. Not just quiet and uncommunicative, but rather the party would rather we act like more efficient NPCs. If only we'd memorize absolutely everything, observe and react in split seconds to every telegraphed attack, and get our timing perfect on every movement and power, then we'd be ideal party members -- maximum efficiency and most rewards/hour! But, imo, that's not a person, that's a better bot.
There are class specific quest lines. There are race specific ones too. There is some overlap like fighters both sharing the quest line and elves sharing their quests as well. They are also not solo-mandatory.
Guess many of you do find random group frustrating. Everyone has different playstyles, everyone treats this game differently, however in a teamwork based game, synergy is crucial but it's very unlikely to find people want to co-operate, or even bother to socialize. Like you said, some of them like to rush, exploit, drop or bug bosses etc to maximize the loot/hour efficiency, and sadly it's mainly what I find by queue/LFG shout. As a CW, I personally enjoy the challenge, either with a friend or two, or build a more balanced character to kill through and earn up the drops making them truly worthwhile.
I played Warcraft III, Diablo II for 10 years and then Diablo III came out I played more than a year now I enjoyed solo as much as team up with my friends (making vods about class promo, solo build diversity and how we melt throu the hardest content etc ahh those were the days...)
I found Neverwinter from Archon's stream several months ago and I played since then. Honestly, in all games so far, it has one of the best combat systems, I really love the controls and graphics of the game, it's just so brilliantly done. I truly hope they will introduce us hardcore old school RPG/RTS players a platform. Maximizing the experience for players of all types, isn't it what a great game about, you reckon?
Many thanks for the support guys once again, I read all the replies and I really appreciate them!
The foundry has a lot of potential for solo content, but the lack of loot and the fact that you can't have bosses makes it unattractive for me.
I have found a couple of hidden caves while doing the solo campaign, but they were very short and very unrewarding.
I have to stop at this point and give credit to the developers -- the new campaign systems go a long ways to addressing this issue. I think it still needs some work though, but I'm excited for where it can lead the game.
I'm one that feels that even the very best top-end best in slot gear should be accessible to a soloer, with no more play-time/effort invested for it than a group-content player. I'm sure that would raise some hackles -- shouldn't the best reward by far go to those who're in parties? I have to say no, it shouldn't. Just because one is in a party doesn't mean the spirit of group activity as a social experience is being served well or even at all. Most parties I've been in, as I said above, have been sterile silent affairs -- players are only in them for the far greater rewards. A game should equitably reward people for playing the many diverse ways they like to play, and offer them the tools and opportunities to be in a social environment while they play.
for me a challenge would be solo killing t2 bosses, though they seem to be on the easy side and the only difficulty is adds, mc last boss would be fun solo if they changed valindra part, removed choke and made it so any attack/certain dmg could interrupt portals
what cryptic calls dungeon bosses are easy enough for solo play, theres one action game that added mobs like that in open world, ofc without the epic loot, and it has been the best and most fun gameplay experience ive had in any game. spending 10~30 min to kill a single monster, when each of your mistakes could be the last. thats how solo should feel like - an epic challenge not a boring grind like t2 dungeons, ppl who are too bad for it can always party. the reason i dont play that game is because its run by THE worst company ever created
the problem with solo now isnt the monster stats its constant adds, imagine doing solo fh last boss with gwf or gf, if u had enough regen, hp and def and monster stats were low, u could be there forever getting chain ccd
Sequel: The Return to Sloping Street NW-DACVPHGHW
Part 3: The Merchant's Tower NW-DC3LB6TZ9
Not that I play Foundries only for rewards, but usually I spend little time in game and I wanna get something useful out of it. Sometimes I have time to play Foundries just for the hell of it and some of them are really good. Now, I understand why we have these restrictions, but it's a shame that no mater how much work and creativity you put in creating a foundry, you can't make it worthwhile, and most players will chose the shortest and easiest Foundries, just so they can get the daily AD reward. If it's ok to spend one hour in Dungeons and get an epic piece of gear, why isn't it ok to do the same in a Foundry?
Hopefully in time they will create a better loot system for Foundries.
I'd happily play some longer more difficult foundries if it meant epic loot. As it stands I've got a couple I play because I like them and they serve as a testing ground. I generally don't even bother with the daily any more and haven't looked at a new foundry mission in a long time.
(or begging on the feed for someone to take a 9.6k CW) is near hopeless.
Mind numbing waits... I'd settle for a messy pug if only to see the dungeons! *sigh*
Of course I can always get in PvP, and be wiped across the floor for 10 minutes.
For the most part I tend to run solo. And I'd rather solo half these dungeons and get my teeth kicked in rather than end up in half the groups I've been put in before.
I think "dumbing down" a dungeon for a soloer, or smaller group could work, but t1/t2 super random drops in harder solo areas would be nice too.
Well that and fixing the queue system.
Branch Lead
Pugging tier 1 is usually easy. But tier 2 can be a pain if your guild has an inactive day and you try it with clueless randoms who will either ninja loot, be a liability in combat or kick you from the group once you beat the boss. A solo option would be awesome.