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Dashes in PvP
eisrabe1902
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 31
The dashes were well balanced when e.g. a 1vs1 pvp clash took more than 10 seconds to be fought, but they are an unfair supreme power where they make TRs and CWs with good timing and movement practically immune for the entire time THEY need to kill their enemy - combined with their defensive skills that are independent from stacking defensive stats (e.g. CW shield, TR impossible to catch etc.) glasscanon builds are overpowered in pvp already and they will be even more the day legendary items come to speed up pvp even more.
PvP gets more fast paced every day due to a general advantage of offense scaling with gear over defense scaled with gear. The amount of 2 or 3 dashes covered only a small part of a pvp clash months ago. Now it covers whole battles. When only a few hard (well geared) hits suffice to kill a 14.2k GS defensive skilled GWF even in "unstoppable" it is rather unfair to give the high dps classes the easy chance to evade the gwf's entire attempt of dealing dmg within that small and closing time window which the high and daily increasing burst dmg income gives it.
The upcoming stat "stamina regeneration rating" wont make that imbalance any better...
PvP gets more fast paced every day due to a general advantage of offense scaling with gear over defense scaled with gear. The amount of 2 or 3 dashes covered only a small part of a pvp clash months ago. Now it covers whole battles. When only a few hard (well geared) hits suffice to kill a 14.2k GS defensive skilled GWF even in "unstoppable" it is rather unfair to give the high dps classes the easy chance to evade the gwf's entire attempt of dealing dmg within that small and closing time window which the high and daily increasing burst dmg income gives it.
The upcoming stat "stamina regeneration rating" wont make that imbalance any better...
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You're saying that you want my 780 Def/Deflect, 24K HP CW to stay and slug it out, melee range, with your mean-looking 14K GWF that can run around me like like Muhammad Ali and do what? Soak your rawrs and takedowns with my puny magic shield?
No. Just no.
THe movement skills are part of having a working playstyle. Expecting other people to play the way you want them to play for you to make it easier to kill them is simply silly. TR's and CW's who don't use their movement skills actively deserve what is coming to them, which is usually a rapid and brutal demise. Just like GF's who don't block, GWF's who don't use Sprint or Unstoppable, and DC's who just stand in a blue circle.
PvP should be fast paced and be more about teamwork and skill than just about gear.
I dont vote for deleting essential game mechanics - I just want to point out they need adjustment.
Dashes were designed to give the chance of evading a certain fraction of the amount of incoming hits, but in combination with excessive dmg shortening fights the amount potentially evaded is imho out of proportion.
That is simply random and nowhere close to my argumentation: I don't want others to play like me (moderately defensive build) but most certainly don't want to be forced onto a single viable path forwarding only maximized dmg output in combination with hit and run dashing.
What I demand is not to forget there should be a variety of viable builds. Not only those based on maximum dmg but also those based on maximum fortitude and as much shades of grey in between as possible.
It always feels like christmas when i catch a 24k hp tr or cw and they die in 1 entangle.
I love those guys. Standing in place and only using direct damage skills, never teleporting away. Then complaining after they get facerolled.
It's nice that you demand that, and you should rejoice since that is the case. There are indeed a variety of viable builds, but there are also a number of things in common between successful PvP'ers - which includes being highly mobile and taking advantage of every ability that they have. Being able to successfully time their movements is an important part of that. Maximizing damage is only useful if you're able to stay alive long enough to keep doing damage.
I think that Block, then Proned to death and 20K+ crits is excessive damage as well from the GF.
Also flourish and rawrs, with sprints and unstoppables is quite excessive IMO especially with some nice GTEs thrown in for good measure.
Did I mention the usual sent GWF that can withstand what a Perfect Vorpal HV CW throws at him quite easily, regen and it goes on... and on.
Quite excessive.
Also, good GFs can catch me offguard and faceroll me in 3-4 hits.
SOLUTION: DONT CHASE THE KITING CW
Hint: Use Roar. That's a good way to start your stun-lock.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
time the dodges. usually a cw after dodging has a "small" delay in between dodges, you either hit them during this gap, or wait them waste all dodges.
sprint after dodge not before dodge.
if you are having a lot of trouble to get close, do as Trace said, use ROAR. it has good range and root the target and you can sprint and takedown.
on next patch you will have less problem with threatening rush and frontline surge.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Also as a gwf against stealthed tr and ranged cw its way harder to take the initiative of battle than vice versa. So it's more likely they will give their rythm to battle to begin with.
If you're sentinel, and you end up in a match against very skilled dodgers, put up roar. Make the CWs waste their 3 teleports; as gannicus said, sprint after they teleport. Slot bravery as passive. A LOT of mobility and also the deflect bonus. Use roar to stun, then rush in, takedown and IBS (or RS if you prever survivability over damage). Stack regeneration, obviously. It's the best defensive stat for PvP. Time your unstoppable and try to use it when you hear the ice knife sound (but here it also depends on lag), or use it as a chance to close the gap against the CW, popping it when you know his CDs are over.
If you're a destroyer, i think that the 2 must-have passives in PvP are steel grace and bravery. Here, too, slot roar, takedown and IBS.
A CW with lower CDs and good skills at dodging+ good rotations to keep you at a distance, sure is nasty. But usually, you have a chance to close on him. Another tip: IBS can be cancelled sprinting in the middle of the animation. Useful agaisnt skilled CWs who wait for the animation to start before teleporting. You get close, fake IBS and sprint a bit to make them waste the teleport. May require practice to do it in battle without <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> it up, wasting IBS. Rembmer, also, that takedown go on 3 secs cooldown if misses, but goes on full CD if it hits while the CW is immune during dodge.
Agaisnt skilled TRs, imho, it's a lot more difficult. They can have a lot of mobility and i've met few TRs that could make flawless transitions ITC--->attack--->jump+dodge roll right before ITC ends and go stealth--->attack--->ITC and so on.
They have a lot of toys to avoid damage, and think your best friend here could be roar.
And, when the expansion comes out, you can slot lantern of revelation in the first artifact slot, to be able to see them more easily.
As gannicus said, frontline surge and threatening rush can help if you will go iron vanguard.
Have to agree that good CWs/ TRs that can dodge a lot are a pain in the a$$.
If they're going through your high defence then they're almost certainly packing T2 gear with a bunch of enchants and a stack of Arp. They're not going to whack you with a daily until they've got their maximum debuffs up - from High Vizier, Ray of Enfeeblement, possibly Conduit of Ice if they have the last Thaum feat as well. A 20k crit with Ice Knife with these debuffs isn't outrageous by any means but it does take some setting up.
A GWF on his own against any player has a hard time because of their relative lack of mobility. Once he gets someone stun locked they're in a world of hurt though. The joy of NW PvP is that each class is really quite different from each other. In some matches last night I had a 1v1 with a similarly specced GWF. First round, I fried him, managing to kite nicely when he went unstoppable, then baiting him in and using Repel to create some space while my teles recharged. I felt very smug
Sometimes you're the windscreen, sometimes you're the bug.
On thread: if it hasn't been mentioned yet, and for some reason you don't like Roar, or just don't have it in current skill set and its too late to swap - try feating "Stunning Flourish". I believe this extra 1 second is bugged - or it's just me with my 300 ping - 5 of 10 times it stuns me (wizard) after teleport, ignoring CC immunity. So, if you react quickly, you can sprint and takedown me with painful IBS follow-up.
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I disagree. GWFs have bravery, which coupled with grade 6-7 darks in utility slots can give us great mobility. We also have sprint. If you meet a very skilled dodger, you cna slot roar. This way, catching a CW is not impossible, even if he's a skilled dodger.
It's harder to pass through the multiple defensive abilities of TRs, to the point that very skilled TRs can tank more than GWFs or GFs.
This will change with shadowmantle, a lot. I thought the crossover with GFs was crappy, but i changed my mind.
We get a new DPS class, a hybrid ranged one with 5 small dodges. And we get more ranged damage for TRs and for CWs with new fire mage path.
But GWFs get a immense boost in mobility. Iron Vanguard is probably the best path for PvP (not so sure about PvE since we lose WMS). We get threatening rish on top of bravery and sprint. And, on top of that, we can use Frontline Surge and Roar. Think about a Sentinel that has bravery, sprint, can use an at-will that closes the gap instantly, can stun from distance with roar, can prone with FS from 30' range and can then sprint+takedown.
Iron Vanguard, imho, can't be kited much, if not at all.
A Iron Vanguard destroyer can get also reduced CD on roar and takedown. On top of bravery and threatening rush. Can help them a lot.
We get so much mobility and gap closing ability that we can counter HRs, TRs and CWs. This is my opinion.
For PvE, i think destroyer with old swordmaster path will still a bit better, considering they still get WMS (WMS+RS will probably help them in PvE).
But Iron Vanguard in PvP will be beast.
I think iron vanguard regen sentinels could prove a bit OP (i'm GWF too). For the simple reason that on top of the improved survivability, it's almost impossible to kite them. It's a blessing that tenes got nerfed. Else, you would have a monster tank which cannot be kited and can deliver very high spike damage flawlessly.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
- Don't just sprint all the time. Save it for when they waste all their dodges or hit you with cc.
- Don't focus on a single target all the time. If that CW is too good at kiting you, leave him alone and play somewhere else. Let your team TR sneak up on him for the quicker kill while you take on juicier targets.
- Never forget how annoying Mighty Leap is to kiting CW's and TR's. Most of us have at least one point in it, and sticking it in your rotation can get you close enough for a takedown and really tick them off. Lots of fun there.
- Flourish has exceptional range. Know that range, and the stun, because it can really get out there.
- And again, if all else fails, leave the CW alone. He's wanting to kite you. Trying to kite you. Just ignore him. What's he going to do, choke you?
GWF's have superior mobility to any other class at the moment, namely because not only do we have more movement options (sprint, mighty leap, charge), but our sprint goes further per stamina amount than any other movement, and many of our abilities have further range than the other melee classes (sometimes up to 20' on a single flourish).
Plus, we aren't affected by movement penalizing CC, if you play it right.
What's more important, though, is to recognize that this game isn't a matter of one-on-one. It's not a duel. It's a team on team event. Just as it's a bad idea for one of their guys to stand in your face on your capture point and try to go toe to toe with you, it's a bad idea for you to let yourself get drug around by an enemy who is out-thinking you.
Pick your targets. This game isn't about kills, but captures. Make sure the fight favors you. And any fight where the enemy can maintain range on you, does not favor you.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
I agree, and while we're at it can we remove all those pesky armors too?
The movement skills tied to the shift key.