test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options

Cryptic OFFICIAL Feedback Thread: Control Wizard - Master of Flame Paragon Path

123457»

Comments

  • Options
    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I know they alluded to other changes, was wondering if anyone was able to tell, because apart from Smolder critting, didn't really notice any difference.

    And yeah, still not convinced on switching from Spellstorm, but I'll keep plugging away at it.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • Options
    scannjerscannjer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 85
    edited November 2013
    It's really sad that I can't respec at all...
    But if they made some changes, would have been nice to put them in the patch notes at least...

    I really hope that there will be a new patch in the upcoming day's.
  • Options
    obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Yes a patch that lets us respec. That's all I need to happen so I can retest CW/TR and some HR builds.

    But at this point I expect what we see is what we get, I don't forsee another testable patch before Friday.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • Options
    scannjerscannjer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 85
    edited November 2013
    Bug: Magic Missile
    Smolder applied from Magic Missile never crit! Every other At-Will Power works fine.

    Magic Missile: 491 hits (35% critical hits)
    Smolder: 110 hits (0% critical hits)


    Note: I did use "Critical Conflagration" and my Critical Chance is 41%.

    Combat Log: Click Me


    Bug: Ray Of Enfeeblement
    Same as Magic Missile... The smolder applied from Ray Of Enfeeblement do not crit.

    Ray Of Enfeeblement: 450 hits (33% critical hits)
    Smolder: 102 hits (0% critical hits)


    Note: I did use "Critical Conflagration" and my Critical Chance is 41%.

    Combat Log: Click Me


    Feedback:
    "Master of Flame" is a lot better now!
    But I still don't see any use of Scorching Burst/Furious Immolation or Combustive Action!!! Nobody will ever use them... Also every new feat from MoF path is useless (only Drifting Embers maybe, but that's debatable).

    I think the CW community would like to know why Furious Of Immolation and Mealstrom of Chaos daily's do NOT Crit...

    That's the least you can do!



    Here are 2x combat logs from my testing on both paragon paths.


    Spellstorm: Click Me

    Build: Thaumaturge
    Mobs: 4x Target Dummys
    Time: 2:00 minutes
    Damage: 2,006,859
    Hits: 701
    Critical Hit's: 37%

    Master of Flame: Click Me

    Build: Renegade
    Mobs: 4x Target Dummys
    Time: 2:00 minutes
    Damage: 2,040,345
    Hits: 761
    Critical Hit's: 37%

    Gear Score: 12,154
    Weapon Enchant: Perfect Vorpal
    Armor Enchant: Perfect Soulforged




    Note: I did over 10 hours of testing to get this results!
  • Options
    obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Awesome work scannjer.

    Would be nice to see the Renegade for Storm in comparison (but I don't expect you to run off and spend time doing that).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • Options
    scannjerscannjer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 85
    edited November 2013
    Awesome work scannjer.

    Would be nice to see the Renegade for Storm in comparison (but I don't expect you to run off and spend time doing that).

    I will do that as well, just need to find the time for it!

    The strange thing is that Thaumaturge in theory should be better... But there seems to be a problem with the debuffs/mitigations for some reason (I think they don't like Fire damage at all). I just can't get the same numbers with it at all, but is not far off as well something in the line of 200-300k less damage.

    I think that MoF can be better in dungeons because you gain additional damage and AP when you kill your targets... Unfortunately I can't test that on Target Dummys ;) Also I'm not sure how the new set bonus is... But I think it will be really nice for MoF path!

    I hope to get it next week :p
  • Options
    scannjerscannjer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 85
    edited December 2013
    I did try the two paths in Renegade build!
    I used Fanning the Flame / Sudden Storm on TAB (Spell Mastery).

    Spellstorm: Click Me

    Build: Renegade
    Mobs: 4x Target Dummys
    Time: 2:00 minutes
    Damage: 2,279,429
    Hits: 767
    Critical Hit's: 45%

    Master of Flame: Click Me

    Build: Renegade
    Mobs: 4x Target Dummys
    Time: 2:00 minutes
    Damage: 2,236,506
    Hits: 851
    Critical Hit's: 40%

    Gear Score: 12,154
    Weapon Enchant: Perfect Vorpal
    Armor Enchant: Perfect Soulforged


    Both of them can deal almost the same amount of damage!
    If you use Sudden Storm on TAB (you can get more dps sometimes) But the problem with that spell is the narrow short range and if your targets move around... You are most likely to miss with it! Where Fanning the Flame will hit every time and do more sustain damage overtime.

    The only way I can see to gather your targets for Sudden Storm is with Arcane Singularity. But then is that other problem... Targets affected by "AS" cannot be damaged by Sudden Storm!!! I know that you can use Entangled Force on TAB also... But that wont even make it near the dps range of MoF build! Keep in mind that Entangled Force got it's AP gain nerfed, so now is not desirable at all in any cases.



    From all the tests I have done.... It shows me that "Eye of the Storm + Storm Spell" are not better then "Critical Conflagration + Swath Of Destruction".


    I will play MoF in Renegade build for now! Because I wont get annoyed by the Arcane Singularity problems with Sudden Storm and the probability to miss with it, because someone decides to knock the adds around!

    I just hope they fix Magic Missile and Ray of Enfeeblement bugs with Smolder, so we can gain slightly more dps from them ;)
  • Options
    starsk7starsk7 Member Posts: 36
    edited December 2013
    good work!

    would you mind sharing you feat/build/gear?

    are you using high viz or shadow weaver? I hear the former is better for MoF
    (which kinda sucks because I only recently got my 4 set HV)
  • Options
    scannjerscannjer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 85
    edited December 2013
    I do not have "Fabled Iliyanbruen" set to check it out... But I don't think it's better then High Vizier.
    The new Dread Legion set will be better me thinks, since it has Life Steal which is incredible! I just hope that the "Evoker's Ruin" has a good chance to proc... and with all the DoT's from MoF, this will be a great damage boost for sure.

    But we will see ;) Is to early to say anything about it yet!

    Here is the feats that I used with both paths:



    attachment.php?attachmentid=11391&stc=1&d=1385937290

    Passive Ability's:

    Swath Of Destruction
    Critical Conflagration

    Power's:

    Spell Mastery: Fanning the Flame
    Steal Time
    Shard of Endless Avalanche
    Ray Of Enfeeblement

    At-Will's:

    Magic Missile
    Chilling Cloud/Ray of Frost



    p.s. I did try Shadow Weaver set, but I'm getting better performance with High Vizier one.
  • Options
    obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Thanks for the ren comparison!

    Its good to see that damage over time for both paths is similar as my experience suggested.

    I know EF got nerfed but gather up the mob and fire a Shard/Storm into them and control the elite while you pour dps into it or stun lock/kill trash works nicely for me in solo play.

    Similarly for MoF I'm thinking Conduit on tab to drop chill on everything then apply smolder via scorch or FtF. On weak mobs (weak recaps for eg) I've had the smolder kill them before they can damage me after getting the chill on them. I did try Icy on tab as well but the results were not as strong, similarly with FtF on tab and conduit/shard/steal as the other encounters.

    Still its good to know the raw DPS is there.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • Options
    scannjerscannjer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 85
    edited December 2013
    I suggest you go for Fanning the Flame on TAB the rest should be Steal Time, Shard, Ray (If you use Renegade of course). If not, same thing but replace Ray of Enfeeblement with Conduit of Ice. That's the best you can get in terms of damage and debuffs.

    With regards to at-will powers.... Magic Missile + Ray of Frost for Renegade and Chilling Cloud + Magic Missile for Thaumaturge.

    Use this spells only if you decide to go for the Master Of Flame path. I hope that helps because the ones you mentioned above, won't give you any good results at all :)


    p.s. You do not apply chill stacks with Conduit of Ice... You just refresh them, but that is only if you have any on your target!
  • Options
    obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Doesn't Tab CoI apply Chill? (I'm going from memory as I only use it with my Thaum for the mitigation).

    I have found Scorch easy to use in testing btw, but you need MM with it to keep the DPS up (testing meaning going and killing stuff in this case).

    I'm respecing 1 of my 2 CWs to MoF, just not sure which one. ;)
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • Options
    uurbsuurbs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 449 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    Doesn't Tab CoI apply Chill? (I'm going from memory as I only use it with my Thaum for the mitigation).
    Yes, Conduit of Ice in the Arcane Mastery slot, does add chill to targets hit.
    Proud member of Dragon Clan - German Gaming Community
  • Options
    scannjerscannjer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 85
    edited December 2013
    You are right... :) I never used that in mastery before... I thought it only increases the area of effect! I will try it tomorrow and see if this will give me better results in Thaumaturge build.
  • Options
    obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Heh..well for Thaum its ok in mastery as more mitigation gets handed out, the chill is just a bonus if you feated to take advantage of it.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • Options
    starsk7starsk7 Member Posts: 36
    edited December 2013
    Im completely lost here.

    I tried to take scorch and either RoF or Cloud for my at wills and spec from Thaum. However I fooled around in Rene, I didnt use MM though, and found I liked it better. Could someone explain why renegade with MM might be good for MoF? Im struggling with applying chill (unless i use IT or CoI on tab) while still having the variety of using fanning the flame on Tab for AoE.

    Second question, I want to use scorch but wouldnt it be useless if i have fan on tab? I mean they fulfill the same basic function.

    Im also so spread out for points, I ended up having to only put 1 into shield and 1 into scorch. Id like to hear where your guys' points go too!
  • Options
    scannjerscannjer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 85
    edited December 2013
    starsk7 wrote: »
    Im completely lost here.

    I tried to take scorch and either RoF or Cloud for my at wills and spec from Thaum. However I fooled around in Rene, I didnt use MM though, and found I liked it better. Could someone explain why renegade with MM might be good for MoF? Im struggling with applying chill (unless i use IT or CoI on tab) while still having the variety of using fanning the flame on Tab for AoE.

    Second question, I want to use scorch but wouldnt it be useless if i have fan on tab? I mean they fulfill the same basic function.

    Im also so spread out for points, I ended up having to only put 1 into shield and 1 into scorch. Id like to hear where your guys' points go too!

    You need Magic Missile with Renegade... Because the last feat works with it! You have 33% chance to apply one of three different buffs/debuffs (healing, power, mitigation). When I play this build... I do not care about chill stacks! Thaumaturge works better for that, me thinks.

    About your second question... Yes they do the same thing :) Also if you use Critical Conflagration you apply Smolder from arcane/cold power crits! For me Scorching Burst is not good at all because, I can get a lot better things from the other at-wills, while having different spells applying Arcane Stacks and Smolder. For example Magic Missile gives me 3 buffs from the last feat in Renegade + arcane stacks! Chilling Cloud gives me 25% more damage if I hit 5 targets + chill stacks (Thaumaturge build only)! Ray of Frost apply chill stacks and freezes my target.

    I did not take Shield/Scorching Burst/Combustive Action at all :) I don't see my self playing with them at all!
  • Options
    daemonstheredaemonsthere Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 111 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    @ Scannjer first of all you have utter respect for the analysis and diagnostic, great work. I also play as a Renegate and I am quite eager to make my Tiefling a fire wizard. Nevertheless I am quite puzzled about your choice of at-wills. As a renegate has more aoe/crit potential, would it be better to combine Magic Missiles with Chilling cloud ? You know just to get the aoe hit and stack chill on multiple enemies and them use steal time/shard crits for aoe smolder effect rather than up-keeping it on a single target via Ray of Frost ?
  • Options
    scannjerscannjer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 85
    edited December 2013
    @ Scannjer first of all you have utter respect for the analysis and diagnostic, great work. I also play as a Renegate and I am quite eager to make my Tiefling a fire wizard. Nevertheless I am quite puzzled about your choice of at-wills. As a renegate has more aoe/crit potential, would it be better to combine Magic Missiles with Chilling cloud ? You know just to get the aoe hit and stack chill on multiple enemies and them use steal time/shard crits for aoe smolder effect rather than up-keeping it on a single target via Ray of Frost ?

    Thanks mate appreciated :)

    If I play in dungeons, I will use Chilling Cloud as second at-will maybe, even that Scorching Burst seems better... The reason for that is because, I will switch my feats to Thaumaturge at some point and then I will have no use of SB! You can't have both in the power tree, not enough points! You need only one rotation for the Smolder/AOE crits maybe, but that's all (you have no cold based spells or anything else that benefit from it unfortunately + you can add smolder with other things). I'm forced to use Magic Missile most of the time because of the Chaos Magic feat buffs/debuffs!

    Sometimes I'm using Ray Of Frost + Chilling Presence for the bosses only (single target dps)! I missed that one sorry... thought it was clear, my bad! But then again, I do not have the heroic feat that increases my cold damage by 9% in this build anymore, so might be pointless ;) Need to see how it will go.

    edit: I hope that explains it all! Sorry for the confusion. English is kinda my 6th native language!
  • Options
    obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    starsk7 wrote: »
    Second question, I want to use scorch but wouldnt it be useless if i have fan on tab? I mean they fulfill the same basic function.

    Im also so spread out for points, I ended up having to only put 1 into shield and 1 into scorch. Id like to hear where your guys' points go too!

    Well I put 1 pip in Shield and 1 in Repel, its all you need to push things around with them so why put more?

    I will have 3/3 for Scorching and for my Renegade run Scorching and MM, for Thaum Chill and Scorching. That way I always have smolder available and don't have to run Fanning in TAB (handy for Thaum more than Ren).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • Options
    scannjerscannjer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 85
    edited December 2013
    @obsidiancran3
    After your suggestion to use "Conduit of Ice" on TAB! Thaumaturge build with MoF is a lot better now!
    But it's really sad to see that Fanning the Flame, fails to deliver better DPS then lower tier spells... (even Chill Strike does more in Mastery)

    Master of Flame: Click Me

    Build: Thaumaturge
    Mobs: 4x Target Dummys
    Time: 2:00 minutes
    Damage: 2,208,756
    Hits: 906
    Critical Hit's: 36%


    This are the feats, that I used for Thaumaturge:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=11421&stc=1&d=1386032731

    Passive Ability's:

    Swath Of Destruction
    Critical Conflagration

    Power's:

    Spell Mastery: Conduit of Ice
    Steal Time
    Shard of Endless Avalanche
    Fanning the Flame

    At-Will's:
    Chilling Cloud
    Magic Missile/Ray of Frost



    Guys keep in mind that every one will choose different feats/ability's to fit his/her own play style... I simply wanted to see if both builds are equally good in terms of DPS after the changes!


    p.s. I have added all ability's for both builds that I used.
  • Options
    obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Glad I could help ;)

    I'm probably going to spec Renegade for MoF as that seemed to be better overall in my earlier testing for the path, and the addition of crit to smolder should boost it further. This will help make my 2 CWs feel a lot more different in play as well with a Storm Thaumturge and a MoF Renegade.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • Options
    scannjerscannjer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 85
    edited December 2013
    Glad I could help ;)

    I'm probably going to spec Renegade for MoF as that seemed to be better overall in my earlier testing for the path, and the addition of crit to smolder should boost it further. This will help make my 2 CWs feel a lot more different in play as well with a Storm Thaumturge and a MoF Renegade.

    I'm still not sure to what I will use for now :) Gonna try both builds in Valindra's Tower and Malabog's Castle (because that will be the only dungeons, I will do) My focus will be to get the new set + the crafted weapons and try them with MoF! After that is testing/tweaking to see what works best for me!


    Edit: I decide to not change into the new Master of Flame path! The reason for that is because the core mechanic (smolder) of this path, do not work with Armor Penetration (some other spells as well).

    I really got tired of this... (insert censored word here)
  • Options
    crimsonangel90crimsonangel90 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Tried MoF and it's bad,to put it lightly.While the smoldering mechanics are meant to be funny they fail to answer any DPS demand,also the whole fire style is impossible to achieve without maxing the new passive skills,which leaves much less choice than spellstorm.AC gain is also not that great,even with maxed scorching burst.Rimefire was nicely achieved with chilling cloud,or icy terrain,and provided a continueous smoldering/burning.Which doesn't do s**t.
    Fanning the Flame - Fails to deliver enough damage,even with 15+ mobs coated in flames and smoldering.And since autoaiming hasn't been addressed yet,missing is even worst because the long cooldown.Also,a dazing effect would have been adequated and made it viable on pvp,assuming it also delivered a decent DoT.As it is now,sudden storm is better for burst.

    Scorching Burst - not really bad,better then storm pillar for area covered but troublesome to use,and yet damage is unconsistent,even when critting,and completely unviable against bigger threats than a bunch of redcaps that could be killed with 2 casts of fully charged pillar.At least the sound isn't as annoying as the storm pillar one.

    Furious Immolation -Pretty decent skill,but honestly a singularity is better when you're up agaist a crowd and the DoT is not relevant.A shard of the endless avalanche deals more,and knocks for about the same time.

    Class Feature – Critical Conflagration - The small increase in crit severity doesn't make much of a difference.Vorpal enchantment and eye of the storm still wins a long way.

    Feat – Twisting Immolation - just why if they're already left prone there?better allocate points in more useful feats.

    Feat – Drifting Embers - haven't tried extensively,but with smolder being so-so and having evocation available,there's no sense in gambling for smolder when you can get a fat 15% more damage and not being forced to use a skill that inflicts smolder.

    Feat – Arcane Burst : I lol'd hard on this one.

    As it stands now,the master of flame is a nice animations and particles show,doesnt hold a candle against spellstorm.Hell,if I'd runned around poking enemies in the eyes with a candle DPS would have been better.
  • Options
    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Linking this here, because it's a pretty big issue with MoF.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?556771-Huge-MoF-paragon-path-problem-with-rimefire-effect-plz-read!

    Basically, any time a chill stack is refreshed on a target, the Smolder/Rimfire DoT damage will not proc. So for most of us control wizards who are refreshing chill stacks, we'll never get any damage off the Smolder/Rimfire DoT, which is an enormous damage loss.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • Options
    verilosverilos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 77
    edited January 2014
    It's a completely useless paragon path. Good job on making countless clueless CWs choose it and be even more useless than they are already.
  • Options
    sicklopediasicklopedia Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Hi,
    ive been playing cw since start and ive rerolled another CW building max CHA(since i believe fire is missing a ton of crit / and does scale pretty whell with more crit).

    Im using the shadow weaver set atm (gives u more crit + crit severity 4pc bonus), a perfect vorp (stolen from my other cw hehe), im going renegade spec, since i cant find use for the thaum COI buff. Besides the 15% crit severity u gain from renegade is really good (u are in combat advantage almost all the time).

    My stats are about 4,6k power, 2,2k arpen, 4,1k crit, i have 41.3% crit unbuffed and i use a perfect vorp & have tested it with a perfect lightning too. For encounter i use FtF on Tab for the AoE obv (some ppl say its not as good as chillstrike tabbed, but i disagree, its alot more dps when u hit it under a sing or generally hit more than 5 targets), frozen terrain (its good to refresh smoulder thru the rimefire effect), shard/stealtime. as class feature i use the crit one (obv for more crit severity + u get to smoulder stuff with crits), the other one i forgot the name, but it gives u 3% ap for every mob that dies with smoulder debuff. Pretty nice ap gain since entangle on tab got nerfed its a helpful classfeature(compared to the other ones, the one that adds dmg to smoulder, but lets be honest, i ran tests with ACT and smoulder deals about 1-2% of our dmg..)

    Anyways, after all setup, i ran all T2s/VT/CN with my fire cw, was hell alot of fun to use that new daily and to see alot small dots ticking from fanning + icy, but the dmg is really significant lower compared to a storm. Not saying its that low and not playable, its still a very good spec, and ill keep using it since i got bored of storm mages.

    unfortunately cant provide u with screenshots or anything, but if you have questions id love to discuss, add me on "@sicklopedia"
This discussion has been closed.