When is gf and gwf

gdante7111111

When is gf and gwf going to get a buff to attack and def, they are useless.

holsac

They aren't useless. The problem is that there are other classes that can do the same job while bring other stuff to the group.

The real problem is two fold -
1) Game mechanics for bosses. This has been sort of addressed in MC.

2) Any buffing to bring the GF or GWF up in PvE could seriously upset the class balance in PvP. Of which, the PvP crowd is the most vocal.

bioshrike

The devs need to drastically improve the PvE benefits for marking enemies. FORCE marked enemies to attack ONLY the GF/GWF for a set period of time, not until they deliver 1 hit. Have marked enemies suffer a significant damage resistance debuff from attacks made by the other party members, and deal reduced damage toward the GF/GWF. Give GFs a base movement speed increase when not blocking, or provide some means for them to dodge, at the cost of part of their block meter.

warpet

yeah making mark a lot better would be huge step up in pve and would not ruin pvp also gwf need some changes on instigator,senti builds last skill at instigator need to be reworked and sentinel need a lot of rework since atm it is only good for tanking in pvp not in pve since it cant agro

chocobofarmer

Sentinel needs the HAMSTER nerfed out of it in pvp, and threat increased. Also the many arrows savage skull is side ways but that hasn't been fixed either don't get your hopes up just roll a tr.

ladysylvia

bioshrike wrote: »

The devs need to drastically improve the PvE benefits for marking enemies. FORCE marked enemies to attack ONLY the GF/GWF for a set period of time, not until they deliver 1 hit. Have marked enemies suffer a significant damage resistance debuff from attacks made by the other party members, and deal reduced damage toward the GF/GWF. Give GFs a base movement speed increase when not blocking, or provide some means for them to dodge, at the cost of part of their block meter.

Mark grant +8% damage. That's not the real problem. It is never the aggro system itself! Where you REALLY need a tank? FH? DC can do it too. Tank make some dungeons easier, but without them, you have no dungeon you can't complete or it's impossible - if you substrate brainzombies - in a normal team. MC was introduced to be less adds and more tank needed bosses, but what i see? Only DPS team work fine their too. 2nd Boss can easy kited or TR OPness tanking easy dealed with them.

baddobb1

holsac wrote: »

2) Any buffing to bring the GF or GWF up in PvE could seriously upset the class balance in PvP. Of which, the PvP crowd is the most vocal.

Because they are to lazy to code abilities so they work differently in pvp to pve like a lot of other games do.

But balancing classes around a non existent pvp that ruins pve is one of the biggest fail I think I have seen from an mmo company.

lobo0084

Dungeon design is more to blame. Who needs melee classes when every major and minor battle is in broad hallways and wide open areas? What is the use of defenders when boss mechanics are so simple that good TR's can do the whole job without ever being threatened? Why have someone with heavy armor when enemy formations are mainly made up of telegraphed attacks and red circles that an attentive player can easily dodge/teleport/slide?

Make some tight-knit spaces where AOE is limited in effect and capability. Spawn adds from doorways and tunnels behind the party, to make parties have to watch both directions as they move. Add mob behavior and change mob formations to include critters like archers and wizards who may decide to focus entirely on ranged party members over 'who's got threat'. Add mobs that can't be hurt by magic!

bkloes

The games I have played use HP as a way to insure tank necessity. For example a similar geared DPS toon has about 1/5 the HP as a meat shield...I used to play another PWI game Perfect World. I love some of the NWN aspects but the boss fights had more creativity in PWI. For example, magic effects that required cleric to cancel.....sleep effects....adds that spawn first...need to be killed to weaken boss.

Regarding the GF.....what about having mark give all other party members combat advantage? Never played GWF....but don't they also have a taunt? That would create a synergistic relationship. I love the idea of GF but tanking is not practical as it is designed. I am not an expert tank but shield seems worthless....You are not able to shield through the big red attacks, and yet it makes you too slow to avoid them if you try to block anything.

cyanbluestone007

bkloes wrote: »

The games I have played use HP as a way to insure tank necessity. For example a similar geared DPS toon has about 1/5 the HP as a meat shield...I used to play another PWI game Perfect World. I love some of the NWN aspects but the boss fights had more creativity in PWI. For example, magic effects that required cleric to cancel.....sleep effects....adds that spawn first...need to be killed to weaken boss.

Regarding the GF.....what about having mark give all other party members combat advantage? Never played GWF....but don't they also have a taunt? That would create a synergistic relationship. I love the idea of GF but tanking is not practical as it is designed. I am not an expert tank but shield seems worthless....You are not able to shield through the big red attacks, and yet it makes you too slow to avoid them if you try to block anything.

First Even the GF does not have a traditional MMO "Taunt" a move that just makes threat, nothing else. a GF gets increased threat on marked targets. So All damage they deal generates more threat. The more damage a GF does the more threat they make. a GWF's mark does not do any of this. And a GWF's mark cannot be maintained like a GF's mark because one hit and the mark is gone GWF have no ways to avoid hits at all. No Mighty leap does not count.

A GWF's threat buffs work only on his lowest damage moves, Daring Shout, Come and Get it, Sure Strike, Slam. So Obviously the GWFs threat buffs that only come from paragon feats in the Sentinel tree are pathetic.

lobo0084

As Cyan said, our threat generation is horrible. They tied some dailies up in it, too, which means we can generate threat every two or three minutes or so, which doesn't help the team at all, really.

I've used daring shout and come and get it before, and while I accept they are utility skills, even with full bonuses to threat generation, pulling a mob that is already attacking someone else is hard. I can pull off of CW's and TR's, but I can't pull them out of a GF's threat.

GWF's could use some love here. Maybe increasing Daring Shouts base threat generation by another 100% or more, based on mob level. If we pop it, they should look for us.

warpet

they need to rework a lot of encounters and feats at gwf to be good in pve and wicked strike need a lot faster animation

lobo0084

warpet wrote: »

they need to rework a lot of encounters and feats at gwf to be good in pve and wicked strike need a lot faster animation

Speed up the animation, and they'll lower the damage per hit.

I'm of the mentality that I'd rather that sword hit harder with fewer swings. Personal opinion, though. If cryptic did make the change you request, though, I'm almost certain they'd lower the damage of each individual swing to compensate.