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An idea on a reflect build i thought of today
battlestationv
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Hello fellow guardians! so to get started i was at work today and i was just thinking about a diffrent way to build a guardian fighter mainly for pvp but hey it could def work for pve aswell. Anyhoo i came up with this theory for a reflective type guardian and some talents and what not many ppl dont use but might just work (remember just an idea).
The race i would choose is human or halfling but i would go human for the extra feats.
with stats i would try and roll high initial strength then when placing stats i would go full dex/con dex mostly for DR reduction
so lets get started first we will look at what we will be using as powers
at-wills-crushing surge/threatening rush
encounters-iron warrior,lunging strike,bullrush
class skill-ferocious reaction,guarded assault
dailies-supremecy of steel, fighters recovery
now we will be looking at the feats we will be choosing
3/5 action surge (you will be guarding so it's a plus)
3/3 strength focus (no brainer)
3/3 toughness (no brainer)
3/3 armor specialization (no brainer)
5/5 powerful attack ^^
3/3 pin down (nice since we will be using bullrush or frontline)
3/3 weapon mastery (increases crit chance)
we will now look at paths to take
conqueror-
5/5 take measure and 2/5 wrathful warrior a nice combo
protector-
5/5 plate agility 5/5 ferocious reaction 5/5 shield defense 5/5 overwhelming impact
tactician-
4/5 fight on
to give you an idea is a link http://nwcalc.com/gf?b=ofi:4eq4v:b7lo,1li353i:6uc00:6zu0u:a0000&h=1
your gear in my opinion for this idea would be 4/4 grand regent or you could do 2/2 grand/general
as for neck rings and belt i would slot frost wolf, 2x blue ring with i think 133 power 133 arp and 110regen(could be wrong might be crit instead of arp either way) and thickgrisltes belt(sp?) and you will use the ancient main/off or the fam one doesnt really matter but i would just go with ancient.
enchants would be rank 7+ radiants in defense slots rank 7+ darks or you could do azures or if you got the income teneberous to make it ridiculous if so inclined in offense spots. for weapon i would slot greater-perfect bial and for armor since this is a reflective build i would slot perfect briartwine for the reflect dmg.
now the idea behind this build is to be tanky so dont expect to pump out huge numbers but you could replace iron warrior with knights challenge it's up to you personally for this i would use iron warrior. so the idea is to have your attackers when hitting you which happens alot in pvp they will also be dmging themselves and oyu will be dmg them at the same time via encounters at wills and bialthron(sp) enchant. now this is just an idea i had earlier the way it looks on paper seems you will be very tanky with decent regen and survivabity while reflecting dmg to your attackers.
anyway i would love to discuss this with the community and other players that can add input. do try to keep it civil.
The race i would choose is human or halfling but i would go human for the extra feats.
with stats i would try and roll high initial strength then when placing stats i would go full dex/con dex mostly for DR reduction
so lets get started first we will look at what we will be using as powers
at-wills-crushing surge/threatening rush
encounters-iron warrior,lunging strike,bullrush
class skill-ferocious reaction,guarded assault
dailies-supremecy of steel, fighters recovery
now we will be looking at the feats we will be choosing
3/5 action surge (you will be guarding so it's a plus)
3/3 strength focus (no brainer)
3/3 toughness (no brainer)
3/3 armor specialization (no brainer)
5/5 powerful attack ^^
3/3 pin down (nice since we will be using bullrush or frontline)
3/3 weapon mastery (increases crit chance)
we will now look at paths to take
conqueror-
5/5 take measure and 2/5 wrathful warrior a nice combo
protector-
5/5 plate agility 5/5 ferocious reaction 5/5 shield defense 5/5 overwhelming impact
tactician-
4/5 fight on
to give you an idea is a link http://nwcalc.com/gf?b=ofi:4eq4v:b7lo,1li353i:6uc00:6zu0u:a0000&h=1
your gear in my opinion for this idea would be 4/4 grand regent or you could do 2/2 grand/general
as for neck rings and belt i would slot frost wolf, 2x blue ring with i think 133 power 133 arp and 110regen(could be wrong might be crit instead of arp either way) and thickgrisltes belt(sp?) and you will use the ancient main/off or the fam one doesnt really matter but i would just go with ancient.
enchants would be rank 7+ radiants in defense slots rank 7+ darks or you could do azures or if you got the income teneberous to make it ridiculous if so inclined in offense spots. for weapon i would slot greater-perfect bial and for armor since this is a reflective build i would slot perfect briartwine for the reflect dmg.
now the idea behind this build is to be tanky so dont expect to pump out huge numbers but you could replace iron warrior with knights challenge it's up to you personally for this i would use iron warrior. so the idea is to have your attackers when hitting you which happens alot in pvp they will also be dmging themselves and oyu will be dmg them at the same time via encounters at wills and bialthron(sp) enchant. now this is just an idea i had earlier the way it looks on paper seems you will be very tanky with decent regen and survivabity while reflecting dmg to your attackers.
anyway i would love to discuss this with the community and other players that can add input. do try to keep it civil.
Post edited by battlestationv on
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http://nwcalc.com/gf?b=pa4:4tuj3:aybg,13e352i:6z551:6u000:6u000&h=1
Basically, Bull Charge a hapless victim, weave a cleave with a Lunging Strike as you close the distance. Frontline Surge them for good measure. And if your daily is up and the victim's not down yet, Indomitable Strength should wrap things up. Your prolonged knockdowns and Crushing Pin will leave them in a really poor place to be, enabling yourself and your teammates to go all out on the victim, without granting them much space to retaliate, or get up on their feet for that matter.
If you're not going for a human, I'd sacrifice 1 point each in the following heroic feats: Toughness, Shielded Resurgence and Pin Down.
Trample the Fallen and Supremacy of Steel are mostly a matter of personal taste. I don't like either Knight's Valor or Iron Warrior, but again your personal taste might rather include those. There's 5 power points left to play with anyway.
Powers like Enforced Threat, Shield Talent and Enhanced Mark were included for when you want to PvE as well, as this is really all the extra you need for that.
As for your gear -- PvE'ing would benefit much from gearing defensively, and either the Gauntlgrym set or Grand Regent are amazing for that. Again, for PvP, burst damage is your best friend --> Timeless Hero probably is your best bet.
(Just to be completely open about this -- I am by no means an expert when it comes to PvP. Others are likely in a better position to advise you in this, but this is the best I have on the subject.)
your suggesting something that isnt even remotely close to the idea i have in mind. besides i already have a conqueror GF with full timeless and stacking arp and i agree it's only so good but these days im beginning to think timeless isnt all it's cracked up to be sure your essentially a glass cannon gf. if burst was so good then why arent sent gwf falling like flies, yes i understand that they will kill you but this isnt about headcharging into the mix and attacking this idea can hold solo points or do other things like helping team members. anyhoo i thank you for your input but please keep to the build i have outlined here for all intents and purposes.
As far as powers go... This is entirely my personal opinion, but I'd never, ever, for any reason, bother with Crushing Surge and Guarded Assault (I put 3 ranks in both on my first toon... Complete waste of power points, if you ask me. 3% reflection is peanuts, and Crushing Surge is too slow, too easily interrupted, and the 3rd hit's heal is unnoticeable.) You could use the points you grab from there to fill out Shield Talent, and any 2 of {Tide of Iron, Villain's Menace, or Trample the Fallen} depending on which you could envision using in scenarios where your "default" setup is sub-optimal. You could also pick up Knee Breaker, which has its use in PvP.
What is your rationale behind using Threating Rush instead of Tide of Iron? I can see why you would in PvE, but why here?
and as for guarded assault yeah 3% isnt much but i have blocked ridiculously high 22-30k+ attacks now it's still not much but the goal of this build it to be constantly reflecting your attackers dmg back at them no matter how little or more it is every little bit counts.
also why i chose overwhelming is because of the reduction to your enemies dmg resistance which is key coupled with the high dex resistance ignored it goes well together
i pvp with my tactician before and my stats build is high HP,deflect, regen(from armor set) , and lifesteal
i can tank and kill 3 players if my SoS is on it reflects a lot of damage and with lifesteal you will be healing yourself too
for passive skills ferocious and guarded assault(low damage but it is still a damage)
wrathful warrior wont be very useful at pvp it wont last 1-3 secs
http://nwcalc.com/gf?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,13l35ii:60000:6uu00:buz01&h=1
dont depend too much on guard at pvp lots of players already knows it weakness (attacking at back)
and CW can hold you
you should add frontline surge to your powers too, it is your only weapon against stealth build TRs if you dont have SoS,it also adds lots of AP
not really relying on block all that much
and to address the issue with stealth build tr's thats why this build is using perfect briartwine as well since it also reflects dmg back to your attack even when your not blocking also coupled with bilethornes poison adding a dot to them their stealth meter will be depleteing also will be using SoS. front line is nice but most stealth build tr's are running itc which unfortunately frontline is useless against.
on a side note most players that pvp forget to watch the blue circle under your feet heres a hint if your facing a stealth build tr watch the blue circle under your feet it blinks red in the direction their dmg is coming from makes finding where they are immensley easier, it's kinda like in a shooter game where when you get shot it shows you which direction it came from. i have found many perma stealth tr's this way since they cant move while throwing daggers.
how much damage do you reflect at pvp with just briart?
lots of trs doesnt spam CoS like before if they see that youre reflecting damage they will just leave you
you wont be able to kill good TRs with just reflect, you need knocking encounters too so they wont be able to run, and if they out DPS you you will die
correction lots of tr's spam CoS a good majority of tr at end game are either running perma stealth or a slight version of it with high regen or deflect then there are all the other huge dmg tr's well not much your gonna do there anyway. but against these annoying guys that stay hidden forever this build really shines your not going to kill anyone with just reflecting dmg thats not the point dmg is dmg regardless of where it comes from you will still be using your encounters to attack but at the same time the enemy is damaging themselves by attacking you (Tr for example will be depleteing their stealth meter),
also did you even look at the encounter setup i posted on the first post? my encounters were iron warrior for increased temp hp and shield regen, lunging strike low cooldown gap closer decent dmg and last but not least bullrush a knockback with great dmg i know you need a knockback thats why i put that as a rotation in the encounter setup if you find using frontline to be better by all means but bullrush has a shorter cooldown and hits harder.
also on a side note perfect briartwine is 4% dmg reflected back at the attacker coupled with guarded assaults 3% (only when blocking) you are now getting a 7% dmg reflect back to the attacker.
not the 7% but the actual damage it reflects during pvp
i know iron warrior and i think it only adds low temporary HP (too lazy to check)
and a good cw can perma hold you
im not sure if you can lunge TR from range while theyre stealthed (i havent pvp since sharandar patch)
with your skill setup they will just avoid you and you can only use 1 knock for support (most players wont hit a guarding GF, so you still need damaging skills)
what are u smoking ? i want to try some
Although I agree with you in theory...real world testing would need to be done.
The actual damage reflected back is between 100 all the way up to 1k depending on the crit and iron warrior gives you a decent chunk of temp HP since its based on a percentage of your missing HP . And yes you can lunge at stealthed tr provided you catch a glimpse of them and activ ate it at that eecond. NO one is just going to run while your blocking They will attack you head on to destroy your guard then your left defensless or They will just get behind you fighting a cw is pretty easy but yes They can lock you down
the 7% from the 30k hit is just one good example of how much this could do back. 2.1k isn't exactly something to scoff at. Especially if they're doing dots to try and eat your shield, and it ALL hits back. On top of this, lifesteal works with that, so you're going to get healed from that reflected damage. Constant restoring of hp.
What people are saying about ignoring the blocking GF is sort of true. They'll go for easier targets if they can't eat your shield quickly. The answer to this? Knights Valor. Take half of all damage from party members in line of sight. so, 30k crit to the friendly CW? yeah, half that hits you, and you snap half back at the CW. If they aoe dot something (CoI) then you stand in it. it reflects yours + half the other player's damage back at the CW. There's plenty of times that this could quickly turn a point inside out from the damage pounding. with SoS and the blocking of damage, it'll hurt, quickly.
It seems that most people aren't interested in this. Unfortunate as I find I do more AP gain by blocking and using the full capabilities of the GF. Instead of using it for a power boost, I have done a lot and have been fairly decent at topping PVP ranks, due to reflection.
I'm still leveling up, 43 now, still going. I'm excited to see what I can do at 60.
im glad you are enjoying this build so far. me im loving it i have a conqueror also but it's just so glass cannonish this is great because it has survivablility + dmg and it's very annoying in pvp. for even more lolz i have been popping knights challenge+fighters recovery while using guarded assault and i can only imagine the faces on my opponents as their dmg heals me and your right it's nothing to scoff at. your correct in having guarded assault + perfect briartwine while using knights valor makes for a pretty good AOE personally like i said i use iron warrior for this buld because of the temp hp and the boost to guard. im working on getting a few g tenebs to go along with the briatwine and guarded assault. i know that they are nerfed in mod 2 but i figure instead of having 7 if you cut it down to 3 and then socket darks in the rest of your offense slots it should off set it a bit. i hopr you enjoy the build as much as me.
Of course, I ended that match 2-11. I died. A lot. I think my final encounter line up will be iron warrior + knights valor + frontline surge. This gives me the interrupt ability that's required in pvp, lets me take hits for others and recover with the temp HP when low. I think my at-wills will be threatening rush and tide of iron. Restore guard is solid, when TR is about halfway through flurry and threatening rush for movement. I just really dislike threatening rush.
I've worked on building high deflect. I loved the CTA because it dropped the perfect enchant for me. I'm not going to actually slot anything until mod 2/I hit level 60 though. I just wish the CTA had given more xp, considering how much I ran it. I'm still not high enough level to get KV or IW. So it's not quite complete, however I'm getting closer and it's potential is just showing more and more as I go.
SoS is all you need for reflect dmg to kill CWs & TRs.
Using the passive guarded assault will result in your shield breaking really fast vs an experienced GF. Brierwine is nice but Soulforge is better.
If you want a real tank build you don't use a 4/4 or 2/2 build. You run Deflect/Regen Blues with a few epics and stacking HP x 7 slots with 3 Offensive Slots. You can get around 42k HP wit over 30% Deflect and 11% Regen.
But if you are just pugging it doesn't really matter what you play and so play what makes you happy and enjoy the game.
I've seen GF survive that sort of thing plenty of times in youtube. Not only that, they go on to win the fight. The gear side I'm not up to yet, so I can't speak about it. What I can say is the set you mentioned for enchants doesn't seem very useful for what is actually desired here. Yes, people stack arp, however, deflect is a major stat. Stacking it up higher shouldn't be that hard and it can kill a lot of damage coming in.
As for Briarthorn and soulforge, there's a change coming to SF that makes it so it doesn't work until you get dropped. So until you die, it's useless. Briarthorn at perfect is a constant 4% damage back. when blocking makes it 7% and if I'm blocking, I take no damage while you get hammered. I believe recovery helps with the shield. plenty of feats that do and the proper cycle of skills can help as well.
I've been looking at the stalwart set. it gives a bonus for defending, which can make the coming out of blocking into attacking hurt more. I'll be the first to admit, I'm not at 60. So this is just my observations of the situation. I also know you do a lot of theory crafting DK, so I'm more than willing to bow to your expertise on such things. It just feels like it can be more than that. That is in part why I'd love to get to test the actual potential stats on the test server with someone.
As I said if you used Guarded Assault you are wasting a passive feat that can eat your shield up by any other GF and then you are dead. As for armor enchants: SF come patch will be OP on TANKs due to their really big HP pools. Briart is good for PvE to increase your dmg but pretty worthless come PvP when players are hitting you for 10k+ and you only reflect 400 before mitigation. Not a good exchange of dmg and not a deterrent.
Also if you are fighting on point with a DC on enemy team, you are playing without an armor enchant. Or if you are playing vs another Regen GF also playing without an armor enchant.
It's the same reason why I prefer SF over Negation because block already gives the class their front loaded damage reduction.