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Easy PVP Fix...
ayroux
Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
Hey its me again on my crusade to help all the casuals in the quest for somewhat more balanced pvp. This will and has always brought flame.
I, myself, am a greater tenebrous user. I have 7 of them. They are extremely overpowered in pvp and are by most people's accounts, "game breaking".
What is the EASY fix to them?
Tenebrous enchants now deal RADIANT damage and can only proc one at a time off ONLY encounters and at wills.
UPDATED ALTERNATIVE: Now just grant 1%/2%/3% equivalent armor penetration. This makes the enchants still very strong and useful in PVE as well. Does not bring enemies into the negatives, it can be used as an arp alternative allowing players to stack other offensive stats instead. Or Both.
problem solved, now less people stacking tene enchants. Welcome to better pvp!
Eventhough this is a very plausible solution, I know others will flame about them, so commence the flame.
Just know DEVs if you read this... The PVP community is suffering because it is obvious these enchants were really never tested. The CD has been nerfed once to 20seconds, which DID NOT fix the problem with them, it just make them a little weaker to a previously GODLY enchant. (I had them pre nerf too, was just stupid).
I, myself, am a greater tenebrous user. I have 7 of them. They are extremely overpowered in pvp and are by most people's accounts, "game breaking".
What is the EASY fix to them?
Tenebrous enchants now deal RADIANT damage and can only proc one at a time off ONLY encounters and at wills.
UPDATED ALTERNATIVE: Now just grant 1%/2%/3% equivalent armor penetration. This makes the enchants still very strong and useful in PVE as well. Does not bring enemies into the negatives, it can be used as an arp alternative allowing players to stack other offensive stats instead. Or Both.
problem solved, now less people stacking tene enchants. Welcome to better pvp!
Eventhough this is a very plausible solution, I know others will flame about them, so commence the flame.
Just know DEVs if you read this... The PVP community is suffering because it is obvious these enchants were really never tested. The CD has been nerfed once to 20seconds, which DID NOT fix the problem with them, it just make them a little weaker to a previously GODLY enchant. (I had them pre nerf too, was just stupid).
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So then ask yourselves... If its "gamebreaking" in pvp... doesnt affect PVE.. why hasnt it been changed?
Put this idea forward myself before a few times so +1.
Ive probably seen it before, I know its not new at all... Just wanted to keep the idea up and around that this enchant needs a rework and sooner would be better
In total honesty,
Ive had tenes for months now, since about 1 month after OB. At first, I didnt want a nerf because they were So powerful that it was fun killing players so easily in pvp.
Now that ive been doing it for so long, and had the chance to see other classes perspectives as well from playing them, its really not that balanced.
People sometimes argue that in a premade with other BIS enchants, its all even... Well sure an OP enchant on both sides is balanced... Cause both sides have it.
That doesnt address if the enchant is truly balanced or shouldnt be changed... It should... Especially since it is no longer attainable.
I would LOVE to use something else to be honest, but as it stands Teneb enchants are so much stronger than anything else, its just a severe handicap in good pvp to not use them.
Anyone claiming they shouldnt be nerfed, I feel your position, but they really do need a rework.
Personally, I think PvP and PvE should have completely different rules regardless...but a fix that doesn't hurt PvE and properly fixed PvP? Y U NO HAZ THIS?!
Why?
It's a moneymaker. If at anytime they want to pull in some more revenue, what will they do? pull out the nightmare lockbox, advertise the tenebrous and watch the dollars roll in.
I believe this fight is for naught. Since the this is how F2P MMOs operate.
But I like your ideas.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
No, this is how Cash Shop MMOs USED TO operate.
So you're telling me this isn't how Cryptic is operating? Cause Im pretty certain, Im in the now and here (which is now the past), and I see them operating like this...
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
If you mean like Allods online did, where they have F2P server; then messed it up so bad they decided to open a sub server. I don't want another one of those fiascos.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
We did an in house PMvPM last night, no Tennys, similar team make-up. 1000-900 (ish). It was such a blast!
Best matches I've had neither team has Tenebrous.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Subscription which only affects things like currency % and EXP % increase with discounts for Cash Shop items...which are no longer B2W. This worked perfectly for LOTRO while it has evolved into something called the VIP system in many other games.
Adsense - which works for YT vids and RS. The ads could be picture only and be put on the loading screens...only.
Events paid for by other companies which provide crossovers...this gets more players for the game and more lookers at the product. For example, Mabinogi with its Vocaloid event.
And more...
^ All these systems work. They are NOT B2W, atleast in a way that harms gameplay, including but not limited to game balance.
How long has cryptic/PWE been around? Do you honestly forsee them changing their model sometime in the near future? My magic 8ball says doubtful.
Coming from their point a view, are sales still good? We can't be certain. But if it aint broke why attempt to fix.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
^ Awesome.
--
Cryptic and PWE aren't the worst but using a model like this, despite existing for over 10 years each (I believe), is inexcusable, esp. since they have atleast enough money to not worry about losing funds during the shift. And seeing what happened with Storm Legion... Well, let's just say PWE has alot of problems. Once again, not as many as NCSoft and Nexon, but still.
From their point of view? I've been playing their games for years. They don't have a point of view. (That was meant to be funny. Laugh.)
--
The system IS broken, it has ALWAYS been broken. B2W = ultimate brokeness of all brokity brokedom. Real question for these companies is: "If it's broken, why AREN'T YOU fixing it." The answer: Despite other games getting MORE income from switching from B2W to these other methods, these two still are afraid of "taking a risk".
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Once B2W is eliminated, they won't have a reason to have it OP, and thus they WILL fix it.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
I do admit I was getting a bit off-topic too, though, so I had to clarify for my own sake :P
Lol no..... it makes the players that Paid - or exploited to get them think they have skills. I am about 99% certain they dont. Not rying to offend any tenbrous user with skills... but take them off and not use them come dance with me and we will see.
Be warned, I usually outscore these types.... so you know I can dance well.
So... put those ladders and matchmaking in the game already, and let people of approximatively the same PvP value to slug it out.
if i remember correctly, they reduced the number of enchant drops in skill nodes. if they wanted to level the playing field with enchantments, all they'd need to do is increase the drops and include R5s and R6s in the skill nodes. i've seen blue profession assets drop but never a R5 or higher gem. they could also increase the % of success for fusing enchants/runes.
but honestly, i don't think the answer lies in nerfing what exists. fix the matchmaking system to take those things into consideration. gem rankings, gear score, stats - however they want to fix it as long as the playing field is level for everyone. i mean if i was spending high dollars and/or spent lots of time acquiring high level items for pvp and every game i played, i got one, maybe two kills in before everyone on the other team leaves... i'd be pretty ticked off about that. not that i couldn't massacre the other lowbies but because there'd be little to no challenge involved.
Entering an arena match with his own gear is like making a car race with no rules on what cars can participate...
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Yes, proper matchmaking is key. The more you win the better adversaries you meet. If you lose a lot, you drop and start meeting adversaries that might be easier for your team to defeat.
I don't think anybody really wants same gear PvP. This is an RPG after all, with character development and different specs and so on. Part of the skill in PvP in MMOs is gearing and speccing properly. Why take this away?
Just make matchmaking and ladders happen and we can start from there.
If pvp is for you part of a war with no rules, then i can understand your opinion. But we are talking about matches 5vs5 or 20vs20. In a war-like setting you wont have the same quantities in combatants. But here we have an arena-like setting in which everyone expects a 'fair' initial setup when joining. And since it is a competition in an arena-like setting, then there is no place for gear differences. Only with no gear differences (and against your own class) you can see who has more skill. Observers are expecting fair conditions, it would fit PERFECTLY into an RP setting. You can show off your gear outside the arena.
This would also remove the need of matchmaking and the problem of equiping/unequiping gear. Everyone who dinged 60 would immediately be able to take part in a FAIR competition. Also not everyone has the time to spend 24/7 in a game to gear properly.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Here's the biggest issue with someone like yourself. You've never actually theorycrafted in this game or figured out that there are plenty of ways to do a ton of damage without ever needing a tenebrous enchantment. Tenebs proc once every 20 seconds (after 2 individual nerfs) this is far from a sustained form of dps and players need to be continuously dishing out damage in a proper pvp match. Not one where you're just running through completely undergeared pugs.
Instead of sitting on the form trying to get other people's builds nerfed you should come up with a way to improve upon what you're doing and make yourself an efficient pvper. The problem with pvp is people like you sit there and cry all day instead of becoming better and providing a steady level of competition. The other major issue at hand is there is no ranking system or separation from the bots rocking green gear and the elite level pvpers.
See unlike you I've been playing since Beta and have tried numerous builds. I play every single class and have 10 level 60 chars, some of them are built around tenebs, most of them aren't. I understand the complexities of the game and that there's far more to it than slotting some enchantments and running around thinking i'm in God mode. Cry less, improve more. Evolve.
The only thing that I do agree is too strong about them is that if someone dodges an attack and takes not damage the tene's can still proc on them even though they weren't technically hit, that is the only thing "buggy" about tene's.
I obviously didn't always have tene's. I played against, won and lost, against many people that did and that is how I got much better at PvP. Tene's force you to make less mistakes when you're fighting against them and that is why I am now extremely good at dodging.
Tene's are just another "end game" gear that must be worked for. I started at the beginning of open beta and I finally have some Tene's and perfect enchants, I have been working toward top tier PvP gear since April 30th and to so many others that have ground out the AD since then (it took me that long b/c I am indeed a casual player with a full time job) are just going to be told sorry you're SOL and not only are those Tene's garbage to use but they are now worth 1/20th of what you paid for them, have a nice day!
Point is tene's are a major part of the economy for PvP players, and making them trash will lose more paying customers than leaving them, which is why I know cryptic will make the right decision.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Yet another "pro" that didn't read the first post and didn't bother to inspect ayroux's chars to see what kind of gear they are sporting.
Tenebrous are a problem, as you say they have let it go on so long, many people have a ton invested in them. Except they are getting more and more expensive by the day. It would be one thing if they were still on lockboxes. The problem is we have heard nothing about them. Supposedly according to preview patch responses from a producer, someone was going to say something about them. Yet nothing has been said yet. If tenebrous are going to stay the way they are, so be it, but at least let us know.
The power difference between a build with tenebrous and one without is hardly a small one. Making them worse than rank 8s might take it too far, but right now they are far and above even rank 10s. Against any class that is without tenebrous that does a ton of sudden burst damage to me, I know they made sacrifices for that damage. Not only that, the damage is counterable since it will be subject to resistance, deflect, dodge, etc. Tenebrous change the way the game gets played. Now when half my life is ripped off right at the start of a fight when I have 37K HPs, and I can tell its a tenebrous by the way the damage pops up, I know most likely that my opponents can not only do uncounterable burst damage, he is most likely incredibly durable. Add a group with tenebrous, and now they can focus fire pretty much anyone down with proper timing and no amount of dodging is going to save them.
Simply put it changes the way PvP is played. It becomes more about your class build being the vehicle for an enchant than about your class. I personally don't find the way it changes the way pvp plays fun, but would be willing to live with it if that is the way it is going to be. There are certain builds of certain classes that may situationally benefit more from not having them, but it is hard to see how that is better when you can create a group of tanky/survivable players (no matter which class) that all stack tenebrous. Why bother timing stacks of debuffs which takes time and sacrifice survivability when you can frontload everyone's damage in a way that is unavoidable and still be tough to kill.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
I also bought stalwart days before the nerf, about 500k turned into 20k rough AD salvage, not that big of a deal honestly. Every lesser tenebrous came from a cash transaction in some way, whether it was cash for keys or cash for zen that was traded for AD and then that person bought the keys. Tene's have been 2-3 mil a piece, that's 4-6 sets of stalwart armor EACH, no comparison, not even close. It changes the way some people build, and those builds can be overcome by good non tene builds as well. Tene's are not the end all I win button, not by a longshot. They are a good counter to soulforged, which is why barkshield is a great alternative, it also absorbs the majority of the initial tene burst.
This is the last time I'll bump this post as I'm confident cryptic will do the right thing here and not drive away paying customers.
Edit: Ayroux's poll thread says it all, 66% of people are fine with tene's and that number is actually even higher b/c 16% of the people that voted simply don't like pvp.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
The only reason they are so expensive is flat out their power in pvp. Rank 10s cost so much because of how much it costs to create them, not because of how much more powerful they are against rank 8s. Perfects cost so much for the same reason. Just like Ancient items that cost 4-5x the cost of grand items. 12 stat points hardly makes that big a difference, but if you want the best. diminishing returns also really affects how much more power rank 10s can give you. A lesser Lifedrinker gives 4.4% weapon damage while a perfect only 8.8%. Again the cost to create being the driving force on cost more than the power increase.
Tenebrous are close to a all or nothing affair. Using normals is almost a waste and lessers are useless. Using two or three greaters is good, but not that big a deal. It is once you have 6 or 7 + a ton HPs and regen. Tenebrous have increasing power instead of diminishing power. You aren't getting marginal returns like everything else.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired