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Only dps counts
eisrabe1902
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 31
For quite some time now - especially since exploiting down everything in your path is the #1 culture in the game - the game overall headed into the direction of many other MMOG:
The only thing that matters is the maximum of offensive stats on the ever increasing gear standard. Everything is speeded up in PvE and PvP. The fun of interesting boss-encounters is melted into a dps-burn-down (or exploit-it-up) without the requirement of defensive gaming. In PvP the top geared offensive-gamers burn down their opponents within their reaction time with a maximum of three hits and what where interesting duels and teamfights about 2 month ago became lightspeed clashes that are about to bore me into leaving the game.
I immensely dislike how a defensive build makes you look stupid in every high end aspect of the game the higher the equip standard rises.
I'd really appreciate a massive buff towards defensive gamers, as it's rather pointless now where it was great fun about 2 month ago. Especially the pvp balance is affected when fights are shortened to the point where the results are ruled out within the uptime of TR's immunities and the advantage of your initial stamina based dashes ...et cetera.
thank you for thinking about my point
...and please excuse my english as its a second language for me
The only thing that matters is the maximum of offensive stats on the ever increasing gear standard. Everything is speeded up in PvE and PvP. The fun of interesting boss-encounters is melted into a dps-burn-down (or exploit-it-up) without the requirement of defensive gaming. In PvP the top geared offensive-gamers burn down their opponents within their reaction time with a maximum of three hits and what where interesting duels and teamfights about 2 month ago became lightspeed clashes that are about to bore me into leaving the game.
I immensely dislike how a defensive build makes you look stupid in every high end aspect of the game the higher the equip standard rises.
I'd really appreciate a massive buff towards defensive gamers, as it's rather pointless now where it was great fun about 2 month ago. Especially the pvp balance is affected when fights are shortened to the point where the results are ruled out within the uptime of TR's immunities and the advantage of your initial stamina based dashes ...et cetera.
thank you for thinking about my point
...and please excuse my english as its a second language for me
Post edited by eisrabe1902 on
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Disagree on PvP.
Guildy of mine runs a sentinel gwf.. Ultra geared - rank 10s, perfects, all the best stuff. He's nearly unkillable, 3 hits? lol nope. Takes a full team of low geared players on him to lower his health much, or 3 equally geared dps spec ones.
Even my purely offensive GF doesn't die in 3 hits, it takes a ton of effort to take me down anything but the most extremely geared rogue.
It's a very useful pvp build and play style especially given the only mode is domination, where defensive action is paramount.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
meta right now in pvp is for every class to stack hp, and defense/deflect/regen on GWF, GF, Clerics and TRs.
I hated it. I like glass cannons, I play squishies from the start of my RPG days 15-20 yrs ago.
I hope you're not envisioning something like this for NWO, where you either build defensively, or your char suffers. Let tanks build defenses, and DPS classes such as TR and CW build offensively and be viable, it's quite OK.
I actually have a different issue, the feeling that exploits are necessary to beat some bosses unless you are in the US (<100ms lag) and or a highly accomplished computer gamer. With some of the faster attack cycles on enemies I don't see the redzone until I'm taking damage from it for example, which makes dodging (which I'm slowly getting better at) impossible and PvP you can forget about.
In that regard I see the devs stuck between a rock and a hard place, build for the > 100 ms lag group and the game becomes too easy for the 30-50ms brigade, build for the 30-50ms group and the game becomes untenable for the higher lag players for PvP and the big dungeon bosses.
Overall I enjoy the game, but t2 dungeons are a write off so far in my experience (I've yet to finish a t2 often with 3+ hours invested).
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Recently, we had a thread which started harmless enough, a guy was asking opinions about what made a good tank. It's harmless enough of a question, especially with Neverwinter's fast-paced combat system in mind. What followed in that thread was an unexpected amount of tank-bashing - not individually, but questioning their purpose / usefulness to a party.
Now game-mechanically, it's understood that a GF's strong point in PVE is damage mitigation - due to block, high defense etc. Since they're high on defense, they (on average, especially non-conqueror builds) are lower on the offense than other non-specialist classes. Makes sense from a trade-off perspective.
Party-mechanics-wise we usually have this:
Incoming damage goes through -> damage mitigation -> healing and results in = party uptime
enabling party to do
(sufficient, sometimes time-critical) outgoing DPS = win encounter.
The problem is obvious: When damage mitigation isn't really needed, it can be cut out in favour of more damage dealing. DPS will always have a place, as mob hitpoints are the mechanical win barrier to overcome. DPS also scales, while you just need enough mitigation and healing to ensure general party survival.
Clerics don't suffer as much from omittance issues, as ironically, they also have Astral Shield in addition to their other healing/spell repertoire, Astral shield being the undisputedly best party damage mitigation tool. So unless content specifically calls for a tank, a cleric can be enough to keep the DPS train rolling. As far as mitigation/damage avoidance goes, CWs ironically have more efficient tools than GF with their CC abilities.
I can't really blame players who want to do things the most efficient way, even if that means not taking a tank along. I do believe it's short-sighted in the long run though, as usually, when/if (new) content requires a tank, the same players who refused to take tanks along while farming/gearing up now tend to complain about a lack of suitably geared tanks around.
Still, ultimately it's up to game design, not players, to make sure GF is a viable class choice.
I would like to see both future itemization, active/passive skill and encounter design explored with GFs in mind. An in my humble opinion particularly good way was the Knight Captain's set bonus for example, it grants power and defense to party (even though not to the GF itself) and it thankfully, since it's %-based, scales well. Having a buff-tank around makes sense, as his (on average) damage deficiency is, in total, offset by his set bonus. I would be thankful if future content would provide a truly viable upgrade path from Knight Captain's (and please, none of that "once per X seconds" mechanics, that's uncontrollable, thus unreliable and not desirable).
Boss-encounter-wise, seeing the recent changes in design was nice, even if they have issues still: Valindra in Malabog Castle is basically a DPS-check: rush and focus-DPS/interrupt her away as soon as she spawns. This, again, is more easily done with a tankless party. Also her spawn area is a little large, making the encounter outcome too random to be within reasonable player control. Failing due to randomness isn't fun. She could do with a little less space, and possibly a little less hitpoints, too. Also, if encounter design intended the dragon to be tanked/held by a GF, its random aggro switching post flight periods needs fixing (there's a separate thread on that issue somewhere).
Tl,dr: Guardian Fighter should be a viable class choice. Since their game-mechanical role leads to them getting omitted in party composition, itemization and design options should be used to counterbalance that trend.
PvE is where you get your gear from. Try finding a random grinding group for T2+ admitting you run a defensive build (its hard!), try finding a grinding group for T2+ telling you don't want to exploit (close to impossible!) and then try finding a random grinding group for T2+ admitting you run a defense optimized build and don't want to exploit (it just wont happen!).
Give the people a reason to think about their defense stats. Yes, let them "suffer" if they don't. I would absolutely appreciate that.
For either of those classes, if you are a strong defensive or utility player, e.g. a pro Knights Valor GF user or a strong mobile add tank in Epic Spider or an aggressive threatful DC that never dies (yeah, they are very rare these day due to major patch nerfs and broken mechanics, but whatever), then people WILL see the effectiveness of your playstyle and many will comment "nice GF" or "nice GWF" or "nice DC" and you will be one of the first players people call on in your Friend's list for anything!
Of course, if your dps is out of this world, then they will also comment "nice XX", but if anything the value of all dps'ers is lowered by the zerg approach of the playerbase and glitches often used to achieve much of that dps. Finding a player that actually knows how to play without relying on gear or gimmicks is much harder and means so much more, especially to the better guilds.
Also, the better guilds often contain older players who are not only more experienced, but they often played the game in beta when gearing was far lower and the content exploits were mostly unknown. You are not going to impress them with just a high dps, though that may get your foot in the door from a gear perspective...
Play how you want to play. Just be d.amn good at it. It always pays off in the end. You enjoy yourself more and because you enjoy yourself more, you throw yourself into your "niche" and make it work no matter what, thus improving beyond expectations.
You had a dungeon where dps didn't matter. The enemy could hurt you but you couldn't hurt them. Only option CC them into specific spot where they get hurt by it and you have to keep them there long enough to kill them.
What if the end is simply a spot like a rift you had to stand in long enough for it to close. i.e. damage mitigation.
What if there was no end boss, but a trigger you have to use to close a portal or stop the bad thing bent on ending the universe, so you have to push stuff into the right spot for someone to jump and get to it while fending off traps or adds.
What if there was no end boss, and you had to race to collect <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from around the room and bring it back in time.
There are tons of ideas on how you can make a dungeon be cool and not revolve around killing some baddy...
I bet your player base has tons more ideas than this that would make it cool. I know we have the foundry, but its the official stuff that gets the most scrutiny. I really want to like this game and as a DnD player for 15+ years. I can see the potential, so here's hoping.
i mean, if one dies it is back in a few seconds.
it`s just too small.
and then there`s the limited skills. (3 buttons)
if it realy was defensive, it would be boring as...
and not an action mmo anymore ;p
it`s actualy same gameplay as wow warsong gulch level 10-19
get oneshot,run
but what do you expect from f2p ;p
if this was sub it would have been so dead because of the underskilled devs.
it won`t change also.
therefore, useless topic ;p
then you must have reaction times of a stoner, i play within 150~250ms and i can dodge about anything red with GWF, if u cant do it with a class that has invulnerability then ur just plain bad. ofc its not fair that servers are only in na and ppl from other regions are forced to play with huge delay giving them disadvantage, but its only pvp issue, cause pve is easy as hell and the biggest difficulty comes from adds when u cant bug the boss to pass that lazy and stupid mechanic and braindead pug members.
if i was boss in cryptic id make sure that the person responsible for t2 boss fights can only sweep floors in game industry from now on cause its the worst and laziest job ive seen in 15 years of gaming, my dog could do a better job, MC is getting better but still a lazy job at best