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Instigator GWF?
rash43
Member Posts: 20 Arc User
With the discussions always getting the spotlight to Sentinel and Destroyer builds,
I really wanted to point out that Instigator feats are totally screwed up and need a major re-concept.
Right now It's got a terrible kit of improvements that don't benefit neither the GWF nor his group due the total lack of a defined role:
Here are some examples of the lack of role provided by it:
Unstoppable Recovery: 1/2/3/4/5% Healing when triggering Unstopplable. Missplaced?
Fleet Footed:3/6/9/12/15% Additional Move Speed buff triggered by our CC. which CC?
Nimble Runner:2/4/6/8/10% Deflection when sprinting/PCing. Hurts our unstoppable feature.
Instigators Vengeance: HUGE power buff that stacks 5 times (10% power for each stack), but if you get HIT the buff is gone. Something really wrong here: While I think the buff itself is pretty good, I find the way it goes away poorly implemented, due the tanky and melee nature of the class. Why am I to be punished if I need to fufill my role as a tanky/melee DPS character?
Other feats not mentioned are fine in terms of effect but don't really define a role in Instigator
So, after the tweaks needed on the other feat trees, please rework Instigator from scratch.
I really wanted to point out that Instigator feats are totally screwed up and need a major re-concept.
Right now It's got a terrible kit of improvements that don't benefit neither the GWF nor his group due the total lack of a defined role:
Here are some examples of the lack of role provided by it:
Unstoppable Recovery: 1/2/3/4/5% Healing when triggering Unstopplable. Missplaced?
Fleet Footed:3/6/9/12/15% Additional Move Speed buff triggered by our CC. which CC?
Nimble Runner:2/4/6/8/10% Deflection when sprinting/PCing. Hurts our unstoppable feature.
Instigators Vengeance: HUGE power buff that stacks 5 times (10% power for each stack), but if you get HIT the buff is gone. Something really wrong here: While I think the buff itself is pretty good, I find the way it goes away poorly implemented, due the tanky and melee nature of the class. Why am I to be punished if I need to fufill my role as a tanky/melee DPS character?
Other feats not mentioned are fine in terms of effect but don't really define a role in Instigator
So, after the tweaks needed on the other feat trees, please rework Instigator from scratch.
Post edited by rash43 on
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on the other feats + investigator vengeance ... was ONE of alternative ways and fun to play with gwf. but with the passage of time, and distortion of the game...
- AOE DPS/CC line: I'd move Intimidation (sent), Defiance (sent), Executioner's Style (des) and Staying Power (des) over to this line. I'd keep Group Assault, Crippling Strike, Allied Opportunity and possibly Fleet Footed. I would then trade the capabilities of the Destroyer and Instigator capstones (doing away with the silly 'goes away when hit' portion at the end of the instigator's vengeance). As a trade of lines, I'd move Unstoppable Recovery to Sent, Stunning Flourish to Des, Vicious Advantage to Des, and Nimble Runner to Sent, allowing for an even swap of powers into more streamlined and focused capabilities.
This would very effectively allow for a full focus on the Instigator line which would be entirely centered on our AOE damage/cc capabilities. In the end, the focus on AOE dailies may be too much and one or more of those features may need to be rewritten for an encounter.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
While the actual lack of role hurts that tree, overspecializing (if that's even a word) your role won't bring any benefit. Meaning that, even if you want to especialize into something, you still need to preserve the functionalities. Butchering the AoE from destroyer for extra single target DPS would just hurt this spec alot more instead of helping out with your role or your group.
Right? Meanwhile, seems that the main concern right now is the end of the current lockboxes.
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I agree.
"Right? Meanwhile, seems that the main concern right now is the end of the current lockboxes."
I can not understand the company's strategy ... they know their mistakes, and instead "back" and proceed cautiously, began to cannibalize its own game. Vesti La Giubba
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
If you are 100% sentinel you usually generates enough threat, having the function of unstoppable purely defensive. take a beating = determining = unstoppable = tank.
If you are 100% instigator - and probably has low constitution - tank is not in their plans, so if you got any, use the unstoppable to heal / run to fight. It is an alternative option.
In short, the feat is in the best place possible. The BIG problem/solution for destroyer/instigator is "reaping strike" which is a "large" range, but ... <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like this does not work, all are forced to tank.
ps: Sentinels have Restoring Strike
The capstone works in pvp when people ignore you and rush the squishy targets. Never fails. Just not much of a damage increase.
Look at Stunning Flourish....adds 1 second stun and 5% crit chance for Flourish.
Allied Opportunity... Combat Advantage and 10% damage increase for Not So Fast (also has 30% slow) and Mighty Leap.
You can also feat a slow to Spinning Strike and Avalanche of Steel for 50% reduced speed for 5 seconds.
Nimble Runner feat for 10% deflection while sprinting or using punishing charge.
Fleet Footed feat for 15% run speed for 3 seconds when controlling someone.
I'm thinking that someone will come along and build an Instigator build around the idea of pvp and not pve. Giving us more of an option than Sent build in pvp.
P.S. I truly hate full sent/regen/tene build.
Since the AP nerf the damage output was cut hard but I'm thinking that it could truly shine in PVP.
http://nwcalc.com/gwf?b=iyn:4zikv:9wjj,13ilu3i:b0uz1:b0u00:60000&h=1
He's quite effective in PvP, despite the apparent low damage output of his main skills (Mighty Leap and Not So Fast), but he makes the rest of the team better by granting them combat advantage. Most decent players keep moving out from being flanked, but Allied Opportunity ensures that they will grant combat advantage at any angle. Here are my loadouts:
PvE
At-Wills: Sure Strike, Wicked Strike
Encounters: Mighty Leap, Not So Fast, Indomitable Battle Strike
Dailies: Crescendo, Slam
Passives: Weapon Master, Steel Blitz
Sure Strike procs weapon enchantments with each hit, so it makes my flaming enchantment more effective against bosses and other high HP targets. Wicked Strike is for clearing mobs, and it deals 5% more damage for each target hit (+25% damage if I hit the maximum five targets, minus a slight penalty for hitting more than one target). I use it over Weapon Master's Strike because I deal near full damage in PvE (Armor Penetration gives -17.9%, while Constitution grants -4%, for a total of -21.9%, or 2.1% away from the full 24%).
For my encounter powers, Mighty Leap grants combat advantage to the entire party, and also doubles as a makeshift dodge (it grants 100% dodge while you're jumping). Not So Fast also grants combat advantage, and also slows down up to five targets. Slow is a powerful status effect in T2 dungeons because you often have to kite adds that you can't take down faster than they spawn. Finally, Indomitable Battle Strike is the most damaging encounter power in our arsenal. It actually has a small AoE, and you can sometimes get lucky and kill two or more mobs with this power, giving you massive AP gain. I choose this over Flourish because most adds in T2 dungeons are too numerous for stun to have an effect or they're outright immune to it anyway. Furthermore, Flourish only triggers weapon enchantments once, on the first hit, so it doesn't benefit from my flaming enchantment any more than Indomitable Battle Strike.
As for my dailies, Crescendo is useful for bringing down bosses and other tough mobs faster, and if you're lucky, the target might be vulnerable to stunning. Also, Crescendo procs weapon enchants multiple times, one for each hit, so it benefits a lot from my flaming enchantment. My second daily, Slam, deals mediocre damage for a daily, but makes up for it with a damage and speed debuff having no target limit. When you're being swarmed by over five mobs, Slam will deal damage and debuff all of them. It also builds up a lot of threat, in case you need to grab the enemy's attention away from the designated kiter. And I almost forget, it can interrupt almost any power, including those not normally interruptible. Unfortunately, Slam doesn't proc anything, so it doesn't benefit at all from my passives. It does, however, benefit from Allied Opportunity (combat advantage against Mighty Leap and Not So Fast targets).
My passives are Weapon Master and Steel Blitz. Weapon Master increases my already high crit rate. Steel Blitz, on the other hand, deals a lot of damage and procs more often the more targets you hit. With one AoE at-will and three AoE encounters, I end up proccing this passive a lot. The jury is still out on whether it deals more damage than Destroyer or not.
PvP
At-Wills: Sure Strike, Weapon Master's Strike
Encounters: Same as PvE
Dailies: Same as PvE
Passives: Bravery, Steel Grace
My PvP loadout is mostly identical to my PvE loadout, except that I trade Wicked Strike for Weapon Master's Strike, and Weapon Master and Steel Blitz for Bravery and Steel Grace. I use Weapon Master's Strike because most players will have higher than 24% damage resistance and I am unlikely to hit five targets consistently with Wicked Strike. Furthermore, Weapon Master's Strike procs weapon enchantments twice per attack (once per hit), as opposed to Wicked Strike which only procs once per attack. Weapon Master's Strike followed by a Sure Strike combo gives me good, sustained, single target DPS.
My passives both improve my performance in PvP. Bravery gives a decent speed boost and allows me to run away from bad engagements so I can regenerate lost HP. It also provides a small deflect chance buff; it's not much, but every little bit helps. Steel Grace, on the other hand, is very useful against crowd control powers, which are ubiquitous in PvP; if the enemy team isn't using crowd control, they're doing it wrong.
Do note that neither of these loadouts are set in stone; I sometimes switch powers based on the circumstances. I am also thinking of switching from Indomitable Battle Strike to Takedown in PvP; I'll do less damage, but I'll have more single target control.
What do you think?
Taking a break from Neverwinter indefinitely...