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Karrundax 2. Boss Undoable!
warcus14
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Today i tried doing karrundax at dungeon delves to get the rest of my vizier set (im full shadow weaver right now and going for the switch) on my 11k cw
In our group was also a 12k cw 11k tr 12,6k dc and a tanky 14,5k gf
We tried everything on this boss. We tried the gf kiting the ads we tried putting him up a hill and marking all the ads we tried standing up a hill and letting the gf kite afterwords none was working.
We are a experienced group so how should a group of 5 people with a gearscore of 8300 be able to finish this boss without having seen some of this ads in their life?
Are there any special tactics we're just missing out or is this really too strong and none ever realized cause everybody was doing the mountain cw sh**?
In our group was also a 12k cw 11k tr 12,6k dc and a tanky 14,5k gf
We tried everything on this boss. We tried the gf kiting the ads we tried putting him up a hill and marking all the ads we tried standing up a hill and letting the gf kite afterwords none was working.
We are a experienced group so how should a group of 5 people with a gearscore of 8300 be able to finish this boss without having seen some of this ads in their life?
Are there any special tactics we're just missing out or is this really too strong and none ever realized cause everybody was doing the mountain cw sh**?
Post edited by warcus14 on
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However the strategy I use is likely far different than what you are doing.
The clue to the cause of your frustration is the GS on your Guardian Fighter. 14K GS sounds amazing but in my experience 14K GS on a GF more often than not means the GF is a Conqeror which means three things:
-He does a decent chunk of damage
-He can generate a good amount of hate threat if he wants to
-Most importantly: they tend to be squishes.
A conqueror tends to be worse in fights like Hand of Magera's. As a Defender or Tactician they normally generate threat passively much easier and can basically herd the adds away from the rest of the party with some careful positioning.
A Conqueror has to fight to maintain threat. They tend to die faster and the ultimate result is them losing threat whether because they die or because they have to stop doing damage in order to heal. This ultimately causes the rest of the party to be in a pretty bad situation because threat is far, far less predictable.
The key to the fight, the way I do it, relies on a good guardian fighter who can take some hits and avoid splats. As long as you have a good threat generating GF the fight is rather easy.
High gear score won't trump a tactical approach in that fight and as a person who plays both a Devoted Cleric and a Guardian Fighter I can promise you that the GF is the backbone to success in a group such as you described.
Same goes for ToS, FH or SP, you see people with 12k + augment who has no clue how to play, they only know how to speed run.
Just sit inside an Astral shield with all the mob, boss dead. L2p. I'm only wearing two enchants too
http://nwcalc.com/gf?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,1rk3c30:60000:b0u00:buuu1&h=0
Video or it didn't happen.:)
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
If you are going to kite, Kill the archers before fighting the boss proper (can run back and let the boss reset). Any gf worth his salt can easily kite the flamespikers well away from the group while avoiding their aoe, grabbing new spikers as they spawn. Aoe all the weak archers etc while killing boss. Once the magma guy spawns (like 20%) just burn down the boss.
^
Also the GF you were with sounds really bad... you should tell him to find another game to play because he is never going to get his t2 sets given the current way they can only be obtained...Prob kick him out of the guild too since he is useless.. find another player who has better gear..And its not "as squishy" since GF only job is to aggro everything and run around in circles on every boss battle so adds dont stomp on you team... running around in circles is the most fun a GF can have..
^
This is basically all I read on this convo..Blaming the poor GF that prob was ding his best to do this CHESSE of a battle with 1242124 adds..
Yes with the mega secret party ability of "Float" over the ground cause everything is coverd in shizz...... i mean cheese
When boss fights are fixed of bugs and CHEESE add mechanics (never) people will stop exploiting the game...
Look at the feat trees.
Protector and Tactician are both superior at passive threat generation. Conquerors are more of a "hate threat" generator.
That means that conquerors rely more on generating threat by damaging foes. It works well enough but they end up dropping faster and every single conqueror I have ever played with has been completely inferior in maintaining threat consistently.
Can it be done with a conqueror, yep. But as I said the fault of the fight's outcome is on the GF based on what I read.
I can tell you, point blank, unarguably, a Tactician or a Protector would have a much easier time in that fight. A good Conqueror would still manage but nowhere near as easily as a Protector or Tactician built for aggro control. I never said it was impossible for a Conqueror but in my experience most conquerors can't survive and maintain threat at the same time. Most as in I have only had one which didn't make me, as a cleric, grit my teeth at their utter lack in aggro control.
singu spam, singu spam, singu spam all the way, oh what fun it is to run Karrundax these days~
Seriously, my (10.7k GS Thaumaturge specc) CW can chain CC alone quite well, add another CW and they will always be in a singularity, proned or stunned.. Add a third and we now have a dedicated HV stacker..
best GF kiter set = Gaunt set (10% movespeed making dodging easier then slot regen accessories )
im a conqueror atm and i dont have problem aggroing adds my weapon doesnt have enchants, maybe its the player skills
pure damager GF = 5% lower deflect and 2.5% lower defense
I never understood this argument of diminishing return for GF when if spec'd a certain way balancing out your stats is a waste. I don't need crit because my role is not to deal damage but take it. I don't need too much power for the same reason.
Oh, before you argue that you need power to hold threat that is actually a fallacy. Looking at the tactician skill tree you will see that I generate extra threat from lunging strike. Furthermore, I generate extra threat from trample the fallen. If you didn't know trample the fall works with...you guessed it enforced threat!
I actually was unfortunate to have played with some bad Conqueror GF's before creating my GF, which is actually the reason I went Tactician. For me at least the protector tree was too much about protecting your team whereas I saw the tactician more about positioning and keeping all red area damage opposite of my team while giving them combat advantage. One thing I liked about Conquerors though was a faster mob death equaled a better defense, which is what I try to do by diminishing how much my team has to dodge by taking damage while they nuke the adds.
The only stat's my GF would need is Def,Deflect,Lifesteal, and REGEN. Now if there was a regen enchantment stone would be happy.
Plus I never said anyone else needed 6k to tank, they do fine with their 47%dmg reduction, what I said was learn to play. You can't role a "Devoted" cleric and run with only damage dealing skills unless you are that good, I never tried, that sounds crazy. I'm sure someone might and end up posting videos of just how great they are using only astral seal and sooth.
No offense but i have too GF Conqeror hybrid and i absolutly don't lack of dmr i have more then 53% DMR with 28.5 %deflect+ 30k hp.
And no problem to hold agro.
If you don't aviod red circile, no gf can help you.
Every aoe limited to 5 mobs,the only true aoe skill we have is villain's menance.
So you can hold agro on more then five mob's if somone tell me he is lieing.I saw many protector and tactican with my other 5 lvl 60 char's no one can hold agro on all add + boss.
Agro come from mark and dmg ,if you not hold your shild mark instant dimish or last only 1 sec.
sorry for bad eng
Strategy is to go all the way and climb the small bridge behind the boss. From there it is much easier to manage the adds. GF kite several adds and the remaining were very easy to control. Boss went down very quickly.
Come play with me on Beholder, Chaos and I show you how to hold aggro on more than 5 mobs.
Threatening rush.
I don't say i can't hold agro on more then just 5 (mybe 8-10 add + boss but no more), i can't hold agro on all add + boss.
Can a group with 8300 GS from queue do it? Doesn't matter if it takes them a few wipes, it's the learning process, but in the end they should prevail.
So, show me videos of T2 bosses from queue 8300 GS guys. I bet they fail even if they try cheating at this GS
Game shouldn't need 12K /augment /good party comp /good spec for successful runs.
But i have 15,7k gs and have only 6k power and 6.7k def i am full on regen+dmr have best Aug pet i.s.m epic .
Aslo i think you can't do this with 8300gs full pt.(using bug's mybe)
Dude what are you talking about?
GFs have zero passive threat generation. Even if they had any, there are zero feats that affect that in the protector and tactician trees.
To generate threat in that fight is 99.9% about what you have on your hotbar, not your feats. You should mainly use your tab ability, with the odd enforced threat stomp when its safe to stop running. Other encounters should be into the fray and iron warrior. Daily is villains menace for a huge aoe taunt.
You can also do it with knights valour, but its less effective imo as it requires your party to first get hit before they change targets. If your slow to react and tab the spawns, it could be better, but if you have fast reflexes, its generally worse.
Plus you said it yourself, conquerors generate more threat. It's a simple fact. Deal more damage, generate more threat.
There is only a single feat for addition thread in the protector tree - brawling warrior - 10% more threat on enforced threat. But it's really zero advantage because conqueror tree has a similar, but better feat - menacing impact, giving you 10% more damage and extra range on menace - which pretty much grabs every add in that fight easily.
Really the fact is what makes this fight tough is simply the fact that neither a Protector or a conqueror can survive for long after the elites and ranged adds come out - after about 1min -1.5min (believe it's a health trigger, but maybe just timed when the harder adds spawn) into the fight. So if you don't kill the boss in under about 30 seconds past that point, you wipe. Conqueror or Protector, makes no difference - you get knocked down and die, thats just how it is.
So even the best GFs can fail this fight, simply by not taking strong enough DPS.
The GF part simply isn't that reliant on gear or feats. A 8300 bare bones all whites/greens conqueror could pull this fight off if the dps was up to par.
If you took all 8300 dps? You could not win, period.
Thats whats not arugeable. (heh well actually it is - just unrealistic, you could aritifically deflate your GS - takes some rogues with perfect vorpal and all tenebrous, wearing greens - PV and GT give 0 GS, so you have a pretty beast rogue with a nice low score).
One could argue a Tactician would be better in 1 small way for this fight, but not for a single reason you mentioned. The only reason would be that his fray could buff his allies damage 5%, and other feats reduce the damage the boss is dealing to the dps. Minor advantage there - hardly "much easier". Much easier would be taking dps classes that deal far more then 5% more damage along and completing the fight in 40 seconds (doable in like sub 30 i'd say with 100% maxxed dps).
And also far superior to tacticians one dmg buff is simply using the Knights captain set, something again not limited to any one spec. - but superior on a conqueror as granting 60% of some low power score is something, but granting 60% of a massive 8000+ power is pretty **** effective at speeding this fight up, and thus ensuring your survival. (And 25% of your defense - which won't be less on a conqueror spec, as no protector feats directly up defense anyways).
So sorry no, the ultimate spec for this battle is what I run - 100% power spec + knights captain. The best defense here is a strong offense, like 99% of this game.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
It is always very disheartening when I see mods com and play the "Learn to play" card, when a player has a an opinion about how difficult some of the fights in this game are.
Just from what I heard about this GF is that he is 14k, As a conquere spec that puts him in T2 gear with high enchants maybe 2/4 of two sets. With okay enchants.
Now you see GF's can't truly build squishy all of their Epic gear has high defense and deflect. Even the DPS sets are like this. And this guy is in good gear. Prolly focused strength which also maxes out his block meter. Now we all know that boss fight is a sea of red. GFs have a really hard time avoiding red areas without using there block. And once a GF blocks in an area of 3 overlapping red zones there block meter is destroyed. And this DPS spec GF prolly has more defense than a full protector spec GF with 8300 GS.
And as stated the group tried several times using several different strategies and nothing worked.
The suggested solution. Run it with 3 CW's... Any spec... any gear... Really thats all you need. You never ever hear about gearscore or spec with CW's just what spells they are using because they can make it work with any spec.
Spec is only specialization, just like a GWF sentinal spec doesnt turn them into aggro managing tanks. It just makes them slightly better at it.
I am not saying the CW is too powerful. Far from it, the gaming community would be lost without CW's giving players the only reasonable means to beat t2 dungeons. It's that fighters both GF and GWF are too weak. There is a reason why most GF's are conquer spec because players have learned that in this game damage is king. And that going 100% defense is useless. Once you hit that soft cap you better get damage stats to increase your threat and make fights shorter.
If the game supported defensive stats play then there would be a true "taunt" power in the game a move that makes threat that is 100% not dependent on the damage you deal. Right now all threat in the game is based on damage. Including the threat buffs from tactician and protector and GWF sentinel.
Must be like this: 100% taunt on 1 target for at least 6 sec + 33% less Dmg .
And as others noted: Best defense is offense, dead mobs don't have to be tanked.
2gw 1tr 1gf 1dc, finish that before since CW's during that time only cares about CN. LOL.
if ads are a problem to manage with 3 just do it with 4. boss only needs one.
it s not fast but better then wiping in your case.
can t believe it s so hard for your groups gs, but learned the gs uselessness(if that s a word) the hard way a long time ago.
actualy with blues better then purps if you want to focus a stat, weapon and armor enchants do not even count for the gs.
classes gs are faulty and admitted, but not fixed.
it should be removed till it s fixed, but ok, then again it still doesn t mean anything.
choice of powers count along also, same goes for repair kits and hp pots hehe.
some are just to cheap to bring any.
remember passive enhanced mark.One time taunt (either tab either rush) and they will never leave you until you die
so yeah,any gf with that passive will pretty much taunt everything without having to deal damage or even remark.Also a 14.5k gf can have 35k hp and 5.5k def and about 2.7k deflect with indomitable champions and a stone and some t2 items with 6s enchants
your gf sucked. you know whats better than block to avoid red? The wasd keys. as the GF should be running around in circles away from the boss with all the adds behind him in tow, and thus all placing their aoes down in a straight line all over lapping, there is no sea of red. There's a tightly clustered area of red where no one is standing, it's mostly a combination of W with either a or d that avoids all of the damage. If you are blocking you are stopping, if you are stopping you are dying.
and yes this talk about specs/gs for GF is hilarious. any GF with any skill whatsoever can do it in greens, enchants don't matter, ok ok dark rank 5s or better in the 3 utility spots make it like 2% better (run speed). Using only Tab and enhanced mark. throw in an into the fray every once in a while to gain some distance, and then you can use enforced threat as well. I like to throw in front line surge against any stragglers (when they are not casting, ie not CC immune) to keep them all clustered together and thus easier to handle.
With prices through the roof on T2 gear (thx devs