If Gwf is designed to be aoe dmg dealer for pve then...

seraphid

Why the *** every aoe encounter has 3x lower dmg than aoe encounters of other classes?

punishing charge? - srsly 1k dmg , useless HAMSTER for pve/pvp(some defend it because of utlity and ap gain - LOL) [can GWF have at least half of dmg of rogue's 3-4 hit aka "15k in pvp 1 impact shot"]
roar? - utility skill with ~ 1.5k dmg , wizards has a lot better utility skills which do 2-3x more dmg.
not so fast? - our "highest" dmg encounter (clap, clap) tooltip says it deals 1.8k dmg - my wizard hit 2x harder with half loaded storm pillar.
mighty leap - used to get to areas when u exploit, not used to deal dmg.

dezstravus wrote: »

From a systems design perspective, the Great Weapon Fighter is designed to be a class that excels at AoE DPS and taking hits while providing a bit of control to the fight.[/url]

Your system desing perspective is to hold Weapon Master Strike for 95% of time in fights which dont require pushing off cliffs(there GWFs stand and watch)
Gwfs encouters which deal dmg are single target pvp skills and they deal 4x more damage than skills listed above

Cryptic if this is your perspective of aoe GWF pve class, there is no progress towards that.

Increase dmg of aoe encouters by 2-3x so actually people could see difference in dmg when GWF did aoe encouter or atwill

endocin

Then the PVP folks start whining again..

ladysylvia

If that skills has a bigger range AND no hitcap the were usefull in PvE, but so? Kick that guy, that say YOU ARE AN AOE-CLASS! If you are, then 1) it has no hitcap and 2) it hit in a big range! Enforced Threat of GF is the same example for failed AoE...

seraphid

endocin wrote: »

Then the PVP folks start whining again..

Not really, that way u could pick another skills for pvp than takedown/flourish/indomitable strike/restoring strike.

rogue has 3(4 from stealth) charge skill which do 10x more damage than 3charge punishing charge, yes its aoe but 10:1 ratio seriously?

slayorian

Definitely agree. This why I retired my GWF and now play a CW. It's a lot more fun when your attacks actually count for something.

zacazu

Not that it makes sense to discuss, by way trump this game is pvp and who has spend lots of money / cheat to equip their characters. Anyway, the gwf was never a "class of encounter", he had good atwills / feats and great daily - slam - which was enough to give the class the "paingiver" handily. The encounters were always "control" / generate ap.

* Anyway, to "compensate" for the loss of massive damage that was one of the few things that this miserable class was useful, sufficient decrease of atwills penalties against more than one opponent, change that would make no difference in pvp ..

As suggested in another topic, I agree now, just a "sabotage" would have some result ... but then the staff of "pay for win" would have to close the wallet, which can not, does not allow the furor teenager.

But this forum is so; thousand ideas are thrown in the air, none is discussed individually / critically, receives no support, not formalizes a topic / debate suggestions and neither company seems interested in what we think about.

slayorian

GWF encounter powers don't control, do real damage, or build AP anymore. A few single target pvp centric ones are half decent specifically for pvp. Otherwise, it's mostly subpar garbage.

chudovishye

When Cryptic figures out this mystery of the general duh of what the GWF should be, and which every GWF knows, the best of us need to make due with what we have currently. I respeced my GWF after the Slam patch, had to do it, now I'm back up to usually 2nd place in damage, sometimes first.

pandapaul

chudovishye wrote: »

When Cryptic figures out this mystery of the general duh of what the GWF should be, and which every GWF knows, the best of us need to make due with what we have currently. I respeced my GWF after the Slam patch, had to do it, now I'm back up to usually 2nd place in damage, sometimes first.

Some people seem to think that's ok.. I just isn't.. Given the only thing a GWF brings to the party is aoe dps.. It should be the king of that.. But it isn't.. Now the CW is.. That just totally breaks the GWFs back..
I rule is now if GWF and CW have equal gear and skill the CW will easily out dps a GWF..

For some reason the devs just ignore this.. I don't understand why.. Everyone is rolling CWs now.. If they don't move rather quickly the game will be 60% CW 20% tr 15% DC 4% gf 1% GWF..

booyquake

pandapaul wrote: »

Everyone is rolling CWs now.. If they don't move rather quickly the game will be 60% CW 20% tr 15% DC 4% gf 1% GWF..

And all those people are buying zen to gear/deck out their new CWs.......

**** PWE.

cyanbluestone007

....... Fighters on Strike!

arcrival

They need to increase aoe damage and increase threat generation. Sent threat generation is just flat horrible we can not off tank or peel mobs. I do not think that we should be out dpsing TR's unless there are mass encounters single target TR should be king.

The more mobs the more damage and threat we should be generating. I am talking hate that a GF has to spam direct taunts to get a mob caught in our web that we have been holding.

The whole system is jacked really. I have a TR that I play now for PvE cause I can't get a grp for dd's and I usually dont fear dieing. Seriously for the most part I am tanking the boss I just roll out GF run in circles while I kill this boss lmao.

What needs to happen is GWF runs scoops everything and burns it down with a CW locking down stuff so it dont get away and the TR and GF burn on a boss and cherry pick all the HAMSTER I have in a nice bundle. This HAMSTER we got now where 2dc/2cw/1tr clear epic T2 then sell the stuff on AH while we pull our puds has got to stop. We as in the whole player base need a rework it is all jacked up

vortix44

seraphid wrote: »

If Gwf is designed to be aoe dmg dealer for pve then... Why the *** every aoe encounter has 3x lower dmg than aoe encounters of other classes?

Only logical answer is, gwf is not designed to be aoe dmg dealer for pve.

This thing about gwf being " to be aoe dmg dealer for pve" has only existed in tooltips.

Admittedly, with this said the question of what the gwf was designed for remains open. My bet is, the devs wanted to create a class that was not existing in any MMO, the 100% useless class. The class whose efficiency would come only from the gear, stones, augment pets. Only from external factor. Like hydroponical cultures, when you grow vegetabls on sand, all the nutriments needed by the vegetables come from what the farmer adds, not from the ground. In PvP, does it feel like you're fighting a gwf? No, it feels like you're fighting soulforged/Tene slots.
Or the devs wanted to troll the players. "Hey guys let's create a DD class that can't DD". And another dev added "Oh yes, a class that needs to get hit to trigger his special, but cannot stand the hits."

belprah

The GWF in NWO is basically the Barbarian in Diablo 3, dumbed down and simplified just so that nobody would say it's a 1:1 copy. Just open a D3 Barbarian guide and you'll notice that just about every skill and passive is very similar, if not identical, to what the GWF has.

Anyone remotely familiar with Diablo 3's development history would remember that the Barbarian suffered from being severely underpowered, too, unable to progress in the hardest difficulty of the game, while other classes plowed through it with much greater ease.

My argument is that Cryptic copied the wrong things and lack understanding how to make the GWF viable and desirable to have in a group. I wouldn't expect an adequate buff to the GWF anytime soon.

misssmoozie

pandapaul wrote: »

Some people seem to think that's ok.. I just isn't.. Given the only thing a GWF brings to the party is aoe dps.. It should be the king of that.. But it isn't.. Now the CW is.. That just totally breaks the GWFs back..
I rule is now if GWF and CW have equal gear and skill the CW will easily out dps a GWF..

For some reason the devs just ignore this.. I don't understand why.. Everyone is rolling CWs now.. If they don't move rather quickly the game will be 60% CW 20% tr 15% DC 4% gf 1% GWF..

Darling, my CW in blues hits 6-8 mil dmg in a Epic Karr run, most GWF's land around 2-3 mil, and most of them don't run with <10k GS and blue stuff..

And well, with current kits for the classes, and their uses, there are basically 4 different compositions that remain the most useful for extreme lategame,
1 DC, 1 TR. (n-2) CW's
1 DC, (n-1) CW's
1 TR, (n-1) CW's
n CW's
Where n is the amount of people you want to split the loot.

All these compositions have been used in CN successfully doing a 4/4 clear. With a n as low as 3..

How is this relevant? Well, basically, to point out the lack of need for both GF's and GWF's in lategame, yes, the GWF is tanky, but a DC or CW in Astral Shield will suffice for the little tanking that is needed, and the GWF's threat gen is to low to have a chance to peel anything.

Even if GWF's had quadruple AoE dmg of the current, another CW would be my choice in 9 out of 10 cases, as controlling mobs is much more important than killing them quickly, and for the fact that a CW is ranged, which means they can stay at a safe distance, with a smaller risk for them to get killed by bad luck.

The real problem isn't that GWF's have low AoE dmg, it's that they are in no way at all needed to do anything at all. I'll be harsh now, but in most situations, a GWF in the party is just another mouth to feed with loot.

ladysylvia

I wish the bosses have Oneshooting attacks, Far ranged attacks or a 4-hit-all-ground-AoE-combo to kill all except high Def/HP or Dodgeclasses.

dante123pl

aoe dps with 4-5 target cap, seems legit
on top of that our aoes do 2-3x lower dmg than any other class i belive
main reason why i roled CW for dg farm, cuase no matter what gear/build u have GWFs sucks in pve

lobo0084

A personal opinion, if I was changing GWF at all:

- I'd change the whole instigator line to focus on AOE, including AOE control and damage, in all AOE powers (Reaping Strike, WMS, Wicked Strike, Daring Shout, Not so Fast, Mighty Leap, Avalanche of Steel, Roar, Steel Blitz, Come and Get it, Spinning Strike, Punishing Charge). If a player specialized in this line and damage in the heroic feats, they should be able to do AOE damage in a scale that trumps a CW focused on AOE damage. My logic for the damage increase is that it's harder for a melee player to get into attack range than it is for a CW, and we have to tank in the process. This would NOT effect PvP as much, due to the rarity of situations where AOE can be very effective in Arena (which is why CW's are an out class where high-end Arena is concerned), plus in GG it's still rare to see more than five or six enemies in a given area at once.

- I'd add threat generation capabilities to the class features' Steadfast Determination and Destroyer, as well as the Sentinel Feat line Student of the Sword and Sentinel's Aegis. This threat generation, however, would be geared the opposite of Daring Shout, and would allow us to 'taunt' smaller mobs and CC immune mobs, but it would have less effect on bosses.

- Then, as a final act, I'd multiple the damage output of each of our daily powers by about 4 or 5 times. Right now, our dailies are the rarest of the breed, and as such, should be absolutely devastating.