Intro:
I've continued to work with my recently "finished" build, and wanted to share it as updated based on continued pining away at balancing things (powers mostly) for discussion and reference. I will describe the initial build, then powers/feats, followed by a section (in progress) for gear. This original post itself will remain current, to the extent that I stay engaged in its discussion.
Note that some conversation following this post may be more relevant to previous iterations of the build (notably the conversation about Hammer vs. Guardian), and while this post doesn't rehash the conversations had here that led to any changes, the posts below (author permitting) and my responses will remain unchanged. This iteration was finalized after post #21 - thanks to everyone who responded so far!
Class:
Devoted Cleric, that's the point.
More elaborately, classes (as they are defined and used in Neverwinter) are all distinct and have their own class-exclusive powers, feats, stat bonuses, and (for the most part) gear. Devoted Clerics (henceforth Clerics) can be built to provide good burst dps and control, while still filling the healing role as needed during major encounters. Clerics are also almost universally welcomed into groups, and are often the defacto group leader. It is for these reasons, and others which I can't be assed to also explain, that I play a Cleric.
"As the Cleric, you will do what I say." - Dystopia, Impact Cleric of Beholder
Race:
Half-Orc. As this build is intended to maximize burst damage (both for PvP, and to allow meaningful damage potential in PvE when jumping back and forth between dps and heals), the +2 STR and +5% crit severity really put this race over all the others. The racial runspeed bonus is just gravy, and the +2 DEX is helpful as well. I was seriously considering Halfling, having really fell for the concept of a supertanking Cleric as described on the forums by GCTRL, but ultimately went for the Half-Orc to stay true to the damage focus concept of the build.
Protip: Up to +2 to each stat is available w/ fire buff and/or Elixir of Fate. This means +4% Hitpoints, +2% Damage/Heal, +2% critical chance, and a host of other sweet stat based benefits that in combination often outclass even sizable gearing improvements - basically I'm saying this makes you a lot more powerful! Of course you all know about the fire buff, and I'm sure you all (at least intend to) take it when you can. Potions of Fate are super cheap on the AH at 5k AD (or so). A group taking these into Castle Never (or similar hard content with potential for good rewards) is really at a meaningful advantage over groups that don't take em, and is only out 25k for a 5-pack, which can be whipped out at the fireplace before the main boss fight. Another sweet buff to be aware of is the Squash Soup or Feast from the seasonal event (not the hero's feast, that thing is worthless), although since I've not yet eaten one, I can't confirm how (or if) they stack with other food/elixir based buffs. More information is still needed (at least by me) on how this works. #winning
I'd like to take at least some Templar's Domain, although with the reported 5 minute internal cooldown, this feat isn't even worth considering, when those same points could be spent into Bountiful Fortune for +3% divine power gain. Plus, Armor Penetration is currently reported to be basically worthless for Clerics - thanks whistlingdixie. I also appreciate the Cleanse to proc more quickly (average half the time, compared to a single rank) - which is a good thing, and still far from instantaneous.
-Paragon-
3 Rising Hope
2 Desperate Renewal
5 Power of the Sun
5 Nimbus of Light
5 Disciple of Divine Lore
1 Cycle of Change
5 Divine Advantage
5 Focused Poise
Rising Hope is reported to maintain near constant uptime with just 2 points, although in thinking about how often I shoot off divine encounters in some circumstances (such as PvP), having a more generous 90 seconds is worth the trade off against a third point in Desperate Renewal in my opinion (2 points here does give a useful, although situational, +10% effectiveness Soothing Light). Nimbus of light boosts our go-to damaging encounter power, decreasing enemy defense by 10% for 5 seconds - a definite must considering Daunting Light should nearly always be socketed when not in full healbot mode, and I am hopeful that this actually debuffs beyond armor penetration so it would be universally useful - I'm thinking it does, but don't have confirmation on this yet. Disciple of Divine Lore is also reported to have a good uptime, and 10% increased damage is a no brainer - since Healer's Lore will be slotted most the time. I didn't go for Strength of the Gods, because while it does have a fairly powerful effect, it only procs for a few (6 I think) seconds on Divine Armor or Guardian of Faith, so isn't worth spending Paragon feat points for such infrequent activation - especially since my hope is to be tossing damaging dailys like Flame Strike or buffing dps w/ Hallowed Ground.
For the remaining 10 points, I really want to push this build to be as powerful as possible, and Divine Advantage flatly outclasses other options in the first or 2nd tier, so it easily earns a spot in the build, and for similar reasons to the ones I noted above for the 2nd point in Cleanse, I've settled on going for the full 5 points in this build. Additionally, assuming I can weave in regular use of Lance of Faith (which I expect to based on my playstyle), I directly gain in the raw damage department with Focused Poise. I have used Etheral Boon with great success on other Cleric builds (notably my capped Human - 24 Wis / 22 Cha), although I am hopeful that with my other feat selections (including Focused Poise, which I see as an either/or with Etheral Boon) I can keep the divine power flowing fast enough without this feat, which only (although meaningfully) increases divine power. I look forward to sharing my results at some point after I have some PvP and high level PvE under my belt with the character.
Powers by Type:
-At Will-
3 Lance of Faith
3 Astral Seal
3 Brand of the Sun
0 Sacred Flame
Sacred Flame is considered by many to be a better at-will than Lance of Faith, although I believe the raw dps comparison doesn't tell the whole story of using the power in combat. I am regularly able to toss a Lance, when I was never able to do same with Sacred Flame. This could be me being quirky, but I do believe Lance of Faith to be a strong at-will (even better when feated, which it is in this build), and will be using it at almost all times while I play.
-Encounter-
3 Sun Burst
3 Searing Light
3 Chains of Blazing Light
3 Daunting Light
3 Break the Spirit
3 Divine Glow
3 Astral Shield
3 Prophecy of Doom
3 Healing Word
2 Bastion of Health
0 Forgemaster's Flame
I do go non-traditional, and completely dump Forgemaster's Flame, since while it does have a good healing ability when cast from divinity (and hits you for full, which is important about it), it is quite underpowered when cast in normal mode due to the long cooldown, and I need every encounter firing at a higher power level than this. I never see myself slotting this power, even if I had a free 3 points to drop in it), either in damage configuration (where it is a really poor choice), or in healing mode (where it is an ok choice, but wouldn't be a good one since other encounters would be superior based on the build and to some extent my playstyle). I don't expect to miss it at all, although I do keep it on my other capped Cleric, so I will let you all know if for some reason this needs to be fit back in.
-Daily-
3 Flame Strike
3 Hallowed Ground
3 Divine Armor
3 Hammer of Grandma
2 Guardian of Faith
Full ranks in both Flame Strike and Hammer of Grandma (which remains our highest potential damage daily*), while also maxing out Hallowed Ground and Divine Armor. Everything you'd want, slot to taste.
* Hammer really does deserve a rebuff somewhere, perhaps in casting speed of the first hit. Pretty please, with ice cream on top?
Keep Healer's Lore on pretty much all the time, since the feat adds 10% damage procs which should have good uptime, and use Terrifying Insight unless you need more defense or are in healing mode. Simple.
sirglenoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 75
edited September 2013
Main Hand: TBD (soon new named set) (w/ Vorpal when I can afford it)
Off Hand: TBD (soon new named set)
Head: Grand Templar w/ L7 Dark (soon Legendary Iliyanbruen Helm as swap in for healing)
Body: Grand Templar w/ L7 Radiant (soon Legendary Iliyanbruen Chainmail Armor as swap in for healing)
Arms: Grand Templar w/ L7 Dark (soon Legendary Iliyanbruen as swap in for healing)
Feet: Grand Templar w/ L7 Dark (soon Legendary Iliyanbruen Greaves as swap in for healing)
Belt: TBD (probably Epic, socketed for even more HP)
Neck: Icy Amulet w/ Greater Tenebrous
Ring: Frozen Ring w/ L6 Azure (soon Tenebrous)
Ring: Glacial Ring w/ L6 Azure (soon Tenebrous)
--
Active Companions:
Might (Ioun Stone of Might - Rare) - note this costs an extra 500k AD to upgrade (and can be upgraded even more, but level 25 is enough)
Ring: Glacial Ring w/ L7 Azure
Belt: TBD (probably Rare w/ Offense Slot)
Ring: Frozen Ring w/ L7 Azure
Offense Rune: Currently Training L7, soon L8 Empowered
Offense Rune: Currently Training L6, soon L8 Empowered
Offense Rune: Currently Training L5, soon L8 Empowered
Are you that annoying "Nyx" constantly bragging in Beholders zone chat?
I've seen another Nyx in game (it's a name with multiple historical references, so this is no surprise), and of course there is the witch out in the fens that also goes by Nyx (yet almost certainly doesn't spam zone chat in the Enclave). I don't shy away from an exchange in /zone chat, although I don't think I've ever even made a comment in zone chat with this character (considering the character didn't exist until about 2.5 weeks ago), and even if I had, I'm not really the bragging type (besides, I'd have to be really drunk to think I had anything to brag about in this game).
Also, I got up this morning (a little excited to check the forums to see what people had to say about the post I'd spent several hours creating the day before), and must admit to some disappoint - considering the only response I got was some light trolling because someone with a same character name is "annoying" and "constantly bragging". To be fair, at least I have something to respond to, I guess I'd rather have one instance of this kind of comment than no comments at all.
Protip: Turn off zone chat, especially if you get annoyed by something as trivial as bragging. I have a pretty thick skin, but I just can't stand watching that drivel (armchair politicians bother me the most, but I also don't enjoy the gold seller spam and other typical /zone fare). I do try to turn it back on when I'm not in the Enclave/Sharandar though, since I try and answer real questions if I can.
Dont be discouraged not too many people use the forums and even less so in cleric class forums.
If it is not completely flame attractive posts it gets nothing for days sometimes. (OMG cleric sucks, whyunerf me bro, hammer of fail).
Edit: good write up by the way! i did enjoy reading it, just not very versed in PvP.
Thanks for the positive note mate, glad to hear you enjoyed the post. I know I really like seeing not only finely tuned builds, but also a discussion on build decisions - since I often otherwise just scratch my head on why a build designer makes one choice over another. Also, there are shockingly few full builds listed here on the forums - with most meaningful build discussions layered between competing claims of "my cleric is the best", so hopefully this thread will at least stay primarily informative.
Thanks for the positive note mate, glad to hear you enjoyed the post. I know I really like seeing not only finely tuned builds, but also a discussion on build decisions - since I often otherwise just scratch my head on why a build designer makes one choice over another. Also, there are shockingly few full builds listed here on the forums - with most meaningful build discussions layered between competing claims of "my cleric is the best", so hopefully this thread will at least stay primarily informative.
Absolutely!
I have my own build that i run that i dont think very many people run, but i am purely PvE though.
Although i would be interested in hearing how Guardian works in a PvP setting. I figured control with off heals would be the way to go for my cleric in PvP, but it seems like no matter what my stats or gear my CC only lasts for a very very brief moment against real players.
I usually just step foot on the grounds, then i get CC'ed until i die. rinse and repeat for the next five minutes.
Do you use Guardian for the prone thingy or for the heal? or better yet for the damage?
I had it at rank 3 back in the day and as soon as I had my FREE respec i just grounded it forever.
I'd like to hear more of its performance, like you know... real numbers cause I really liked the concept of this power but when I last used it the numbers were just crappy.
Also, isn't templar's domain worth plonking at least 1 point in? Unless you're totally strapped for featpoints, the arpen doesn't scale with investment, so you're just looking at 5% vs 25%: since it's got a 5min internal cooldown (srsly cryptic wtf) this is basically saying "are you gonna pop the cooldown within the first 2 seconds or the first 10?": basically you're gonna pop a 5% chance easily, effectively on cooldown or near enough, so that could be funtimes spike damage once every 5 mins or so, for only 1 feat point.
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sirglenoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 75
Also, isn't templar's domain worth plonking at least 1 point in? Unless you're totally strapped for featpoints, the arpen doesn't scale with investment, so you're just looking at 5% vs 25%: since it's got a 5min internal cooldown (srsly cryptic wtf) this is basically saying "are you gonna pop the cooldown within the first 2 seconds or the first 10?": basically you're gonna pop a 5% chance easily, effectively on cooldown or near enough, so that could be funtimes spike damage once every 5 mins or so, for only 1 feat point.
I don't feel too squeezed on feat points, although if I had 2 more freebee points, I would plop em both into Bountiful Fortune. Only on a Human, where I could max that and still have a point available, would I even really consider it - and even then I'd probably rather have a 3rd point in Cleanse. 5 seconds every 5 minutes is just that horribly worthless. Maybe someday it (along with Initiate of the Faith and several other never used powers) will be improved - that same someday I'll reconsider my build, but until then, I'll just avoid the worthless powers (like Hammer in it's current form).
Do you use Guardian for the prone thingy or for the heal? or better yet for the damage?
I had it at rank 3 back in the day and as soon as I had my FREE respec i just grounded it forever.
I'd like to hear more of its performance, like you know... real numbers cause I really liked the concept of this power but when I last used it the numbers were just crappy.
I was going to try my hardest to keep Hammer of Turkey (Faith) for that single target daily, although I think that after the most recent balancing, Guardian actually has higher numbers (and is near insta-cast). I do hope to report back some data once I have them, both in terms of how quickly it casts (mainly to establish how much it could be dodged), as well base damage. A secondary bonus in taking Guardian over Hammer was that I didn't have to drop another power down to rank 2 (probably would have been Healing Word - but I wasn't ever happy with this choice).
This remains one of the build choices that is subject to revising once I have more play under my belt (or especially if they at least partially un-nerf Hammer).
I was going to try my hardest to keep Hammer of Turkey (Faith) for that single target daily, although I think that after the most recent balancing, Guardian actually has higher numbers (and is near insta-cast). I do hope to report back some data once I have them, both in terms of how quickly it casts (mainly to establish how much it could be dodged), as well base damage. A secondary bonus in taking Guardian over Hammer was that I didn't have to drop another power down to rank 2 (probably would have been Healing Word - but I wasn't ever happy with this choice).
This remains one of the build choices that is subject to revising once I have more play under my belt (or especially if they at least partially un-nerf Hammer).
I'll also add that using Guardian (or Hammer) would be pretty uncommon, since I'll be generally going to Flame Strike for damage and Divine Armor for defense (swapping in Hallowed Ground for Flame Strike on boss fights when running with a good dps group). The single target daily will probably only even be on my bar sometimes during PvP, but I did want to be sure I had either Hammer or Guardian since the area targeting of Flame Strike against player opponents can be a real pain sometimes - and for the reasons explained above I went with Guardian.
I've seen another Nyx in game (it's a name with multiple historical references, so this is no surprise), and of course there is the witch out in the fens that also goes by Nyx (yet almost certainly doesn't spam zone chat in the Enclave). I don't shy away from an exchange in /zone chat, although I don't think I've ever even made a comment in zone chat with this character (considering the character didn't exist until about 2.5 weeks ago), and even if I had, I'm not really the bragging type (besides, I'd have to be really drunk to think I had anything to brag about in this game).
Also, I got up this morning (a little excited to check the forums to see what people had to say about the post I'd spent several hours creating the day before), and must admit to some disappoint - considering the only response I got was some light trolling because someone with a same character name is "annoying" and "constantly bragging". To be fair, at least I have something to respond to, I guess I'd rather have one instance of this kind of comment than no comments at all.
Protip: Turn off zone chat, especially if you get annoyed by something as trivial as bragging. I have a pretty thick skin, but I just can't stand watching that drivel (armchair politicians bother me the most, but I also don't enjoy the gold seller spam and other typical /zone fare). I do try to turn it back on when I'm not in the Enclave/Sharandar though, since I try and answer real questions if I can.
I would turn off zone chat if I didn't spend most of my time in between queues helping people out in zone chat.
That being said. As rude as it was for me to ask. I guess I didn't really have anything else to say seeing as your build didn't really interest me that much. Not saying it's bad. I'm just happy with my tank cleric and don't really want to bother reading up on new builds, as they say "if it ain't broke."
Nonetheless, I apologize for my curiosity. (No sarcasm)
even then I'd probably rather have a 3rd point in Cleanse. 5 seconds every 5 minutes is just that horribly worthless.
I dunno, I'd say a single point in cleanse is all you need, and for more or less exactly the same reason: it's got an internal cooldown of 20sec (might've been reduced to 8sec, not sure), so given that DC healing is of the "tons of small procs" rather than "giant SPIKE HAEL" variety, even a 10% chance is gonna pop pretty sharpish.
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fathomfulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 207Bounty Hunter
I dunno, I'd say a single point in cleanse is all you need, and for more or less exactly the same reason: it's got an internal cooldown of 20sec (might've been reduced to 8sec, not sure), so given that DC healing is of the "tons of small procs" rather than "giant SPIKE HAEL" variety, even a 10% chance is gonna pop pretty sharpish.
I always roll with 1 point. I have never found myself wishing for more procs in PvE anyway.
I dunno, I'd say a single point in cleanse is all you need, and for more or less exactly the same reason: it's got an internal cooldown of 20sec (might've been reduced to 8sec, not sure), so given that DC healing is of the "tons of small procs" rather than "giant SPIKE HAEL" variety, even a 10% chance is gonna pop pretty sharpish.
Agreed with your point, and Fathom's below it (above my response here), but since this build isn't going to be throwing constant healing to the party (except when appropriate - like tight grouped PvP, major encounters in PvE, or more generally whenever I focus on throwing a lot of healing), I do want my less frequent healing to be increasingly likely to proc the Cleanse ability. I think that the build's 2 points into Cleanse are the right balancing point, though if I had points to spend I would consider the 3rd one.
A few of my maths:
1 point into Cleanse would give me a 10% chance, meaning that to proc it with approximately 2/3 certainty in a 5 second window (which is a fair benchmark imo to look at this, since clearing off debuffs pretty quickly would be rather important) would take 2 heals per second. With 2 points, it only takes 1 heal per second - which I think is actually more than I will typically be giving except in certain types of situations like I listed above.
That's true. Cleanse was a granted "immunity" to debuffs if you had 3 points on it, but since it got nerfed 1 point on it is as effective as 3 points.
Wow, it was like that? Would have been great then!
It would be cool to see something like that come back. Maybe reduced internal cooldown, if that could be implemented (not sure how it would all work with multiple Clerics trying to Cleanse a target though, especially if their Cleanses had different cooldowns).
But then I'd have to take all 3 points and drop down to 2 in Bountiful, so I selfishly kinda like it how it is now
Wow, it was like that? Would have been great then!
It would be cool to see something like that come back. Maybe reduced internal cooldown, if that could be implemented (not sure how it would all work with multiple Clerics trying to Cleanse a target though, especially if their Cleanses had different cooldowns).
But then I'd have to take all 3 points and drop down to 2 in Bountiful, so I selfishly kinda like it how it is now
What I meant is that it had no internal cooldown so you got cleansed every second or less for as long as you kept a HoT effect on yourself or anyone. So in fact it was like being immune to debuffs. (CC cannot be qualified as a debuf)
This is more or less my build! I am glad to see someone else has come to the same conclusions as me. I have a few things to say here.
1) ArmorPen doesn't work with the majority of our Powers. Most people don't realize this, and it's almost hard to believe. But go test it for yourself. See my posts here or on the bug forum for more information. That said, Templar's Domain is ESPECIALLY useless. I agree that 1 in Cleanse is probably enough, even if you're going overkill on Divinity generation.
2) I don't think you're getting a lot of benefit from Focused Poise, and I'll explain why. With no bonus to divinity gain, Lance of Faith gives (6.7/6.7/9.5) 22.9% divinity. Sacred Flame gives (9.6/9.6/12.8) 32%. Even with the feat, Lance gives less divinity. AP gain is equal (I could only test with a stopwatch, results were within 5% margin-of-error). I can't seem to find the results of my damage tests, but I recall Sacred Flame was superior there as well. Focused Poise might slightly favor Lance of Faith, but since you're going to crit almost half the time, it seems like adding Divine Advantage, Restoration Mastery or most likely Strength of the Gods is a much better investment.
3) I love the idea of using a left-click At-will like LoF/SF with BotS on the right-click. However, I have not tested the Power of the Sun, so who knows if it actually works. Second, if you use Astral Seal, you can rely on it exclusively to keep up Cycle of Change. A crit on Astral Seal = a crit heal when you (or anyone else) hits that target. In most fight, a crit on Astral Seal puts me right at five stacks almost immediately. I currently have Power of the Sun in my build, but my next respec will swap it for Second Sight. I don't know anything about that feat, if it works, what it procs, etc., but I need Astral Seal and Sacred Flame out almost all the time. As much as I want to use Brand of the Sun, I just don't get to. I use Prophecy of Doom a lot more to debuff bosses and the like. With Seal, Repurpose Soul, and perhaps Second Sight, you are adding considerable healing "for free". I would say Healer's Lore helps, but it may or may not work. I know it doesn't work for Repurpose Soul, can't say about the rest. Though I do feel like Astral Seal heals help proc Disciple of Divine Lore, but I have no way to confirm that.
4) You should take at least once point in the Hammer. For the knockback. Maybe for the brief immunity. But mostly the push. I can't tell you how many times I've blown my Daily just to knock some annoying mob into the lava when the CW got it hung on a ledge. Plus it's an awesome sound/animation, and it can remind you of better times. It's a really fun Power to use. Drop a point from Hallowed Ground. No one will notice the difference.
5) Just for the record, since this IS a crit build, the size of the Repurpose Soul is always calculated as if the target has zero Damage Resistance. So Cycle of Change and Disciple of Divine Lore add to the heal size, as does the divine Divine Glow, Strength of the Gods, and Hallowed Ground buffs. But stacking up Prophecy of Doom, Nimbus of Light, High Prophet, Divine Glow, and Terrifying Insight DEbuffs on the target will not improve the heals from Repurpose Soul, nor will any other debuffs, nor ArmorPen (on the powers it actually works for).
What about your gear and features? I am assuming High Prophet, with Healer's Lore and Terrifying Insight out most of the time.
IMO this is the best and obvious build for the DC, unless you want to go full-on healbot. In which case the only difference is that you'd change your paragon feats and probably want BoH 3. Even so, this build is absolutely capable of healing through all the game's content, though it will have a harder time carrying a team that is undergeared or inexperienced. The solo viability is the highest the DC can have. The support/debuff/DPS/utility is the highest a DC can have. Imo, this is the way to go.
The Heroic feats are pretty much One True Spec. Even a single point anywhere else is a trap as all the other feats are bugged or useless. I also think maxing Critical chance is the most efficient thing for a DC. Recovery/Recharge is a waste. Secondary pick should be Wisdom, unless you are making a tank DC build then Con (but only after you've composed yourself from the certain laughter of a imagining a non-squishy DC).
How do you usually play this build? When you have to heal, what powers do you get out? Have you tried it in PvP any? I'd like to hear your experiences with it.
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sirglenoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 75
edited September 2013
I have rewritten the OP to improve upon both the build and the presentation.
This is more or less my build! I am glad to see someone else has come to the same conclusions as me. I have a few things to say here.
1) ArmorPen doesn't work with the majority of our Powers. Most people don't realize this, and it's almost hard to believe. But go test it for yourself. See my posts here or on the bug forum for more information. That said, Templar's Domain is ESPECIALLY useless. I agree that 1 in Cleanse is probably enough, even if you're going overkill on Divinity generation.
2) I don't think you're getting a lot of benefit from Focused Poise, and I'll explain why. With no bonus to divinity gain, Lance of Faith gives (6.7/6.7/9.5) 22.9% divinity. Sacred Flame gives (9.6/9.6/12.8) 32%. Even with the feat, Lance gives less divinity. AP gain is equal (I could only test with a stopwatch, results were within 5% margin-of-error). I can't seem to find the results of my damage tests, but I recall Sacred Flame was superior there as well. Focused Poise might slightly favor Lance of Faith, but since you're going to crit almost half the time, it seems like adding Divine Advantage, Restoration Mastery or most likely Strength of the Gods is a much better investment.
3) I love the idea of using a left-click At-will like LoF/SF with BotS on the right-click. However, I have not tested the Power of the Sun, so who knows if it actually works. Second, if you use Astral Seal, you can rely on it exclusively to keep up Cycle of Change. A crit on Astral Seal = a crit heal when you (or anyone else) hits that target. In most fight, a crit on Astral Seal puts me right at five stacks almost immediately. I currently have Power of the Sun in my build, but my next respec will swap it for Second Sight. I don't know anything about that feat, if it works, what it procs, etc., but I need Astral Seal and Sacred Flame out almost all the time. As much as I want to use Brand of the Sun, I just don't get to. I use Prophecy of Doom a lot more to debuff bosses and the like. With Seal, Repurpose Soul, and perhaps Second Sight, you are adding considerable healing "for free". I would say Healer's Lore helps, but it may or may not work. I know it doesn't work for Repurpose Soul, can't say about the rest. Though I do feel like Astral Seal heals help proc Disciple of Divine Lore, but I have no way to confirm that.
4) You should take at least once point in the Hammer. For the knockback. Maybe for the brief immunity. But mostly the push. I can't tell you how many times I've blown my Daily just to knock some annoying mob into the lava when the CW got it hung on a ledge. Plus it's an awesome sound/animation, and it can remind you of better times. It's a really fun Power to use. Drop a point from Hallowed Ground. No one will notice the difference.
5) Just for the record, since this IS a crit build, the size of the Repurpose Soul is always calculated as if the target has zero Damage Resistance. So Cycle of Change and Disciple of Divine Lore add to the heal size, as does the divine Divine Glow, Strength of the Gods, and Hallowed Ground buffs. But stacking up Prophecy of Doom, Nimbus of Light, High Prophet, Divine Glow, and Terrifying Insight DEbuffs on the target will not improve the heals from Repurpose Soul, nor will any other debuffs, nor ArmorPen (on the powers it actually works for).
What about your gear and features? I am assuming High Prophet, with Healer's Lore and Terrifying Insight out most of the time.
IMO this is the best and obvious build for the DC, unless you want to go full-on healbot. In which case the only difference is that you'd change your paragon feats and probably want BoH 3. Even so, this build is absolutely capable of healing through all the game's content, though it will have a harder time carrying a team that is undergeared or inexperienced. The solo viability is the highest the DC can have. The support/debuff/DPS/utility is the highest a DC can have. Imo, this is the way to go.
The Heroic feats are pretty much One True Spec. Even a single point anywhere else is a trap as all the other feats are bugged or useless. I also think maxing Critical chance is the most efficient thing for a DC. Recovery/Recharge is a waste. Secondary pick should be Wisdom, unless you are making a tank DC build then Con (but only after you've composed yourself from the certain laughter of a imagining a non-squishy DC).
How do you usually play this build? When you have to heal, what powers do you get out? Have you tried it in PvP any? I'd like to hear your experiences with it.
This is such a great response, thank you for your time in dropping some knowledge on us here! Anyways, I did consider a bunch of what you said here in reworking the build, and hope you have a chance to go back through my updated OP to check it out.
Comments
Off Hand: TBD (soon new named set)
Head: Grand Templar w/ L7 Dark (soon Legendary Iliyanbruen Helm as swap in for healing)
Body: Grand Templar w/ L7 Radiant (soon Legendary Iliyanbruen Chainmail Armor as swap in for healing)
Arms: Grand Templar w/ L7 Dark (soon Legendary Iliyanbruen as swap in for healing)
Feet: Grand Templar w/ L7 Dark (soon Legendary Iliyanbruen Greaves as swap in for healing)
Belt: TBD (probably Epic, socketed for even more HP)
Neck: Icy Amulet w/ Greater Tenebrous
Ring: Frozen Ring w/ L6 Azure (soon Tenebrous)
Ring: Glacial Ring w/ L6 Azure (soon Tenebrous)
--
Active Companions:
Might (Ioun Stone of Might - Rare) - note this costs an extra 500k AD to upgrade (and can be upgraded even more, but level 25 is enough)
Ring: Glacial Ring w/ L7 Azure
Belt: TBD (probably Rare w/ Offense Slot)
Ring: Frozen Ring w/ L7 Azure
Offense Rune: Currently Training L7, soon L8 Empowered
Offense Rune: Currently Training L6, soon L8 Empowered
Offense Rune: Currently Training L5, soon L8 Empowered
Darka (Dire Wolf - Epic)
Neck: Icy Amulet
Neck: TBD
Belt: TBD
Offense Rune: TBD (currently Training)
Offense Rune: TBD (currently Training)
Offense Rune: TBD (currently Training)
Spinnerella (Sylph - Epic)
Ring: TBD
Ring: TBD
Gear: TBD
Rune: TBD (currently Training)
Rune: TBD (currently Training)
Rune: TBD (currently Training)
Cloverfield (Pig - Uncommon)
Gear: TBD
Gear: TBD
Gear: TBD
Rune: TBD (currently Training)
Rune: TBD (currently Training)
Rune: TBD (currently Training)
--
Nyx - Divine Cleric
Medusa - Brush Wizard
Spinnerella - Combat Wizard
Don't forget to update the Wiki!
I've seen another Nyx in game (it's a name with multiple historical references, so this is no surprise), and of course there is the witch out in the fens that also goes by Nyx (yet almost certainly doesn't spam zone chat in the Enclave). I don't shy away from an exchange in /zone chat, although I don't think I've ever even made a comment in zone chat with this character (considering the character didn't exist until about 2.5 weeks ago), and even if I had, I'm not really the bragging type (besides, I'd have to be really drunk to think I had anything to brag about in this game).
Also, I got up this morning (a little excited to check the forums to see what people had to say about the post I'd spent several hours creating the day before), and must admit to some disappoint - considering the only response I got was some light trolling because someone with a same character name is "annoying" and "constantly bragging". To be fair, at least I have something to respond to, I guess I'd rather have one instance of this kind of comment than no comments at all.
Protip: Turn off zone chat, especially if you get annoyed by something as trivial as bragging. I have a pretty thick skin, but I just can't stand watching that drivel (armchair politicians bother me the most, but I also don't enjoy the gold seller spam and other typical /zone fare). I do try to turn it back on when I'm not in the Enclave/Sharandar though, since I try and answer real questions if I can.
Nyx - Divine Cleric
Medusa - Brush Wizard
Spinnerella - Combat Wizard
Don't forget to update the Wiki!
If it is not completely flame attractive posts it gets nothing for days sometimes. (OMG cleric sucks, whyunerf me bro, hammer of fail).
Edit: good write up by the way! i did enjoy reading it, just not very versed in PvP.
Nyx - Divine Cleric
Medusa - Brush Wizard
Spinnerella - Combat Wizard
Don't forget to update the Wiki!
Absolutely!
I have my own build that i run that i dont think very many people run, but i am purely PvE though.
Although i would be interested in hearing how Guardian works in a PvP setting. I figured control with off heals would be the way to go for my cleric in PvP, but it seems like no matter what my stats or gear my CC only lasts for a very very brief moment against real players.
I usually just step foot on the grounds, then i get CC'ed until i die. rinse and repeat for the next five minutes.
pve spec/gear of course.
I had it at rank 3 back in the day and as soon as I had my FREE respec i just grounded it forever.
I'd like to hear more of its performance, like you know... real numbers cause I really liked the concept of this power but when I last used it the numbers were just crappy.
I want this class in NW.
Nyx - Divine Cleric
Medusa - Brush Wizard
Spinnerella - Combat Wizard
Don't forget to update the Wiki!
This remains one of the build choices that is subject to revising once I have more play under my belt (or especially if they at least partially un-nerf Hammer).
Nyx - Divine Cleric
Medusa - Brush Wizard
Spinnerella - Combat Wizard
Don't forget to update the Wiki!
I'll also add that using Guardian (or Hammer) would be pretty uncommon, since I'll be generally going to Flame Strike for damage and Divine Armor for defense (swapping in Hallowed Ground for Flame Strike on boss fights when running with a good dps group). The single target daily will probably only even be on my bar sometimes during PvP, but I did want to be sure I had either Hammer or Guardian since the area targeting of Flame Strike against player opponents can be a real pain sometimes - and for the reasons explained above I went with Guardian.
Nyx - Divine Cleric
Medusa - Brush Wizard
Spinnerella - Combat Wizard
Don't forget to update the Wiki!
I would turn off zone chat if I didn't spend most of my time in between queues helping people out in zone chat.
That being said. As rude as it was for me to ask. I guess I didn't really have anything else to say seeing as your build didn't really interest me that much. Not saying it's bad. I'm just happy with my tank cleric and don't really want to bother reading up on new builds, as they say "if it ain't broke."
Nonetheless, I apologize for my curiosity. (No sarcasm)
I always roll with 1 point. I have never found myself wishing for more procs in PvE anyway.
I want this class in NW.
A few of my maths:
1 point into Cleanse would give me a 10% chance, meaning that to proc it with approximately 2/3 certainty in a 5 second window (which is a fair benchmark imo to look at this, since clearing off debuffs pretty quickly would be rather important) would take 2 heals per second. With 2 points, it only takes 1 heal per second - which I think is actually more than I will typically be giving except in certain types of situations like I listed above.
Nyx - Divine Cleric
Medusa - Brush Wizard
Spinnerella - Combat Wizard
Don't forget to update the Wiki!
Wow, it was like that? Would have been great then!
It would be cool to see something like that come back. Maybe reduced internal cooldown, if that could be implemented (not sure how it would all work with multiple Clerics trying to Cleanse a target though, especially if their Cleanses had different cooldowns).
But then I'd have to take all 3 points and drop down to 2 in Bountiful, so I selfishly kinda like it how it is now
Nyx - Divine Cleric
Medusa - Brush Wizard
Spinnerella - Combat Wizard
Don't forget to update the Wiki!
What I meant is that it had no internal cooldown so you got cleansed every second or less for as long as you kept a HoT effect on yourself or anyone. So in fact it was like being immune to debuffs. (CC cannot be qualified as a debuf)
I want this class in NW.
1) ArmorPen doesn't work with the majority of our Powers. Most people don't realize this, and it's almost hard to believe. But go test it for yourself. See my posts here or on the bug forum for more information. That said, Templar's Domain is ESPECIALLY useless. I agree that 1 in Cleanse is probably enough, even if you're going overkill on Divinity generation.
2) I don't think you're getting a lot of benefit from Focused Poise, and I'll explain why. With no bonus to divinity gain, Lance of Faith gives (6.7/6.7/9.5) 22.9% divinity. Sacred Flame gives (9.6/9.6/12.8) 32%. Even with the feat, Lance gives less divinity. AP gain is equal (I could only test with a stopwatch, results were within 5% margin-of-error). I can't seem to find the results of my damage tests, but I recall Sacred Flame was superior there as well. Focused Poise might slightly favor Lance of Faith, but since you're going to crit almost half the time, it seems like adding Divine Advantage, Restoration Mastery or most likely Strength of the Gods is a much better investment.
3) I love the idea of using a left-click At-will like LoF/SF with BotS on the right-click. However, I have not tested the Power of the Sun, so who knows if it actually works. Second, if you use Astral Seal, you can rely on it exclusively to keep up Cycle of Change. A crit on Astral Seal = a crit heal when you (or anyone else) hits that target. In most fight, a crit on Astral Seal puts me right at five stacks almost immediately. I currently have Power of the Sun in my build, but my next respec will swap it for Second Sight. I don't know anything about that feat, if it works, what it procs, etc., but I need Astral Seal and Sacred Flame out almost all the time. As much as I want to use Brand of the Sun, I just don't get to. I use Prophecy of Doom a lot more to debuff bosses and the like. With Seal, Repurpose Soul, and perhaps Second Sight, you are adding considerable healing "for free". I would say Healer's Lore helps, but it may or may not work. I know it doesn't work for Repurpose Soul, can't say about the rest. Though I do feel like Astral Seal heals help proc Disciple of Divine Lore, but I have no way to confirm that.
4) You should take at least once point in the Hammer. For the knockback. Maybe for the brief immunity. But mostly the push. I can't tell you how many times I've blown my Daily just to knock some annoying mob into the lava when the CW got it hung on a ledge. Plus it's an awesome sound/animation, and it can remind you of better times. It's a really fun Power to use. Drop a point from Hallowed Ground. No one will notice the difference.
5) Just for the record, since this IS a crit build, the size of the Repurpose Soul is always calculated as if the target has zero Damage Resistance. So Cycle of Change and Disciple of Divine Lore add to the heal size, as does the divine Divine Glow, Strength of the Gods, and Hallowed Ground buffs. But stacking up Prophecy of Doom, Nimbus of Light, High Prophet, Divine Glow, and Terrifying Insight DEbuffs on the target will not improve the heals from Repurpose Soul, nor will any other debuffs, nor ArmorPen (on the powers it actually works for).
What about your gear and features? I am assuming High Prophet, with Healer's Lore and Terrifying Insight out most of the time.
IMO this is the best and obvious build for the DC, unless you want to go full-on healbot. In which case the only difference is that you'd change your paragon feats and probably want BoH 3. Even so, this build is absolutely capable of healing through all the game's content, though it will have a harder time carrying a team that is undergeared or inexperienced. The solo viability is the highest the DC can have. The support/debuff/DPS/utility is the highest a DC can have. Imo, this is the way to go.
The Heroic feats are pretty much One True Spec. Even a single point anywhere else is a trap as all the other feats are bugged or useless. I also think maxing Critical chance is the most efficient thing for a DC. Recovery/Recharge is a waste. Secondary pick should be Wisdom, unless you are making a tank DC build then Con (but only after you've composed yourself from the certain laughter of a imagining a non-squishy DC).
How do you usually play this build? When you have to heal, what powers do you get out? Have you tried it in PvP any? I'd like to hear your experiences with it.
(Re)Read and comment today!
Nyx - Divine Cleric
Medusa - Brush Wizard
Spinnerella - Combat Wizard
Don't forget to update the Wiki!
This is such a great response, thank you for your time in dropping some knowledge on us here! Anyways, I did consider a bunch of what you said here in reworking the build, and hope you have a chance to go back through my updated OP to check it out.
Cheers,
Nyx - Divine Cleric
Medusa - Brush Wizard
Spinnerella - Combat Wizard
Don't forget to update the Wiki!