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Cryptic. Please give us actual Dungeons

munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
edited September 2013 in PvE Discussion
The original T1 and T2 dungeons are all the same. Lots of mobs, no mechanics.

You fixed alot of buggs and I thank you for that. There are still many more and I am patient.

You gave us a new expansion.

I like the new area for the most part.

However. Other then finishing dailys, you give us no reason what so ever to actually "enjoy" your new content. Its quick, easy, slam bam thank you mam done and forgotten about until tomorrow.

Malabos Castle. You said you listened to the population and brought us new game mechanics.

You did. Sort of.

The dungeon, like all the rest of the dungeons. Is disgustingly easy and very quick with a group that has even half a brain.

The loot tables are out of control stupid. Why on earth do you allow blue items to drop from T2 boss's??? Ok cool. You want to have them drop a blue item. How about some rare blue items with new graphics that arent already in the game? As well as the 1 purple item it should ALWAYS drop.

Many MC full runs, and I can count on one hand the purple items that drop. Thats pretty sad.

You said this is a PvE focused game. I am still waiting for some PvE. So many people have asked for 10 man raids, or atleast even longer dungeons. Dungeons with a week timer for example. A dungeon not possibly completed with an epic group of players in even 4 hours.

Larger dungeons. More boss's. 8+ Boss's would be an awesome start. T3 gear that is BoP, that we can actually be PROUD of when we acquire, because the boss's were actually difficult to beat.

You know. The server first kills kinda stuff. Actual dungeons that people talk about in guildchat. "Hey man, did you here so and so beat the first 4 boss's in Lair of Awesome"?

I love this game as it is, and will continue to play until something better comes along. But if you want to actually keep people playing, this is the kind of stuff you guys need to start working on.

You have plenty of easy content for casual gamers that will satisfy them for a very long time. Please. For the love of all things that are awesome, give us hard core gamers actual content worth bragging about clearing.

Alysin Chains
Mindflayer
EoG
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • wylderfoxwylderfox Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 43
    edited September 2013
    Please don't make this game into World of Warcraft or EverQuest. Some of us have lives....and we do not miss 10-25 player multi-hour raids that kill time with our friends and family outside of this game.
  • munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    wylderfox wrote: »
    Please don't make this game into World of Warcraft or EverQuest. Some of us have lives....and we do not miss 10-25 player multi-hour raids that kill time with our friends and family outside of this game.

    Like I said. The game already has enough easy mode content for Casual Players.

    If you dont want to participate in 10 mans or have longer dungeons. Then simply continue doing what you do now.

    Dont be a debbie downer for people wanting harder content.
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    No thank you to 4 hour dungeons.

    All content should be open to everyone not just those who can spend 4-6 hours in a dungeon.
  • uri92uri92 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    They should already fix the current dungeons...
    It's all about bug exploit because they are impossible for 8300 GS people if you don't use bugs, or VERY hard.
    It's not funny AT ALL to have to bug exploit in order to finish a poor T2 dungeon.

    There are way too many packs of mobs, with too much HP. They are not hard to kill, they are simply boring.
    They should rework on all the packs in all the dungeons and delete like half of them so the people actually start playing the dungeon and not exploiting it...
    On the other hand many bosses are out of control and ridiculously stupid with the massive spawns of adds, killing adds is a waste of time because they will respawn instantly or even before you manage to kill any of them. Seriously look at bosses like the first in Frozen Heart or the 2 first bosses in Karrundax...

    The first boss of FH is almost impossible if you don't skip it because IT'S BUGGED. If you down the boss most of the time you cannot go and kill the orbs because the ADDS keep spawning indefinitly and won't let you get away. The second boss is almost impossible if you don't have a person kiting the adds forever (much fun here..) and same for the last boss, need kiter. Is the "kiter" mechanic intended ? Because it's impossible without it.

    The first boss of spider is bugged in the same way as the first of FH. If you kill it, the adds will keep spawning forever unless the whole group wipe and come back again. The last one is ridiculous if you consider that 3sec of inattention could lead the boss to full HP regen.

    The two first bosses of Karrundax are harder than the last one, Karrundax himself. The number of adds is simply pathetic.
    The first one spawns ranged adds that you cannot kite, and the second one spawns both ranged and melee with insane AoE damage and the number of AoE on the ground is just not fair at all. How are melee classes supposed to dps ?

    The second boss in Spellplague is totally HAMSTER. It's kinda impossible to fight him without patrols except if you bug exploit the door. Have any dev tried to kill the boss + just 1 patrol altogether and with 8300 GS group ? Especially with the AP nerf on cleric ?
    That's ridiculous, how is a 8300 gs group supposed to go through this with no bug exploit ?
    And why did they make the last boss even harder ? Now the zombies are almost unknockable unless if you all stick to the edge. Why did they buff the Boss's ray that enhance zombies ? And that boss has a ridiculous amount of HP compared to Karrundax and a mistake = a wipe. It's 8300 GS boss, guys, hello ?



    All of that content is doable with end gear and high GS exped group, but hey it's T2 dungeons that don't even drop T2 stuff most of the time, and 8300 GS group can't go through this with no exploit unless they are hardcore gamers and very exped in those dungeons.
    Most dungeons and boss need a rework in order to be doable AND fun, and not just a boring bug exploit run with infinite adds on boss.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    - DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
  • munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    No thank you to 4 hour dungeons.

    All content should be open to everyone not just those who can spend 4-6 hours in a dungeon.

    I agree. All content should be open to everyone and it is. But end game gear should drop from actual "End Game" content which takes a good group of people to accomplish.

    But hard core gamers need something more. We need longer, bigger, harder dungeons. Like I keep saying, they already have casual gamer content. Its time for some real content meow.

    If you dont like doing long dungeons then simply dont do them. Having the attitude "everyone should be able to do everything" is not an opinion I share with anyone. There should absolutely be end game raids that take a skilled well geared group of players to finish, and many people will never be able to complete them because "most" people have the attitude like yours(which is fine)that a 4+hour dungeon/raid is ridiculous. Again, no one is forced to do a raid, and for obvious reasons the best gear always drops from end game raids.

    Having Raids in this game will affect your gameplay 0%. Having raids in this game will increase my enjoyment, and many others enjoyment 10 fold. I see no problem here
  • esteenaesteena Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1
    edited September 2013
    CN is hard mode now with the draco bug :D. I hope they don't fix it.
  • gokkensgokkens Member Posts: 104 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Harder dungeons and better gear is okay! but your naive if you think raids with 25 people or 10 would fix anything!

    it is hard enough to find 5 man groups! 25?! I don't even know if their is enough good geared DC on my server to do this!

    2 examples

    Dragon lair gives awesome loot for takes 25 players I think one or 2 guilds have that on my server out of what 15? this will only benefit a tiny fraction and most will never ever go there! before you say L2P or some other elitish bs. It's because these people have no means of obtaining the last 20 people they need! thereby blocking new content for them!

    now then if they new very hard dungeon was extremely hard and dropped awesome gear only took 5-man alot more guilds could actually try it and complete it! and no that does not make it easier, that just makes is more easier to join! which is needed!

    Swtor died because of stupid people yelling for awesome 25 people raid all the time, but 90% of the community did not even have 25 people in their guild!
  • dnosrcdnosrc Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    munkey81 wrote: »
    Like I said. The game already has enough easy mode content for Casual Players.

    If you dont want to participate in 10 mans or have longer dungeons. Then simply continue doing what you do now.

    Dont be a debbie downer for people wanting harder content.

    If you want harder content, ask for good PVP. Nothing can be harder then fighting real players.
  • morsitansmorsitans Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,284 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Or find a game that actually caters to that mindset.
  • munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    dnosrc wrote: »
    If you want harder content, ask for good PVP. Nothing can be harder then fighting real players.


    I've tried just like many other people. They seem not to care about PvP so now I'm trying for more PvE content =) Cryptic was the first to say they were more focused on PvE, and this game is PvE priority #1, all else >.

    Gokkens. I'm not against actual Epic 5 mans. I actually prefer a smaller raid anyway, less worry about carrying people. 5-10man Epic content is my favorite =) However, just because "you" cant find enough people to run a 25 man doesnt man it shouldnt exist.

    Morsitans. Everything I read from you is usually spite or attitude. Why even post if you arent going to offer something constructive? I like the game alot and want to see it succeed. In my opinion and many others, adding actual 5-10man Epic Content will keep people playing, and bring new people into the game. Also, according to Cryptic. This "is" their mindset. They said this was a PvE focused game, and raids in MMO's for as long as I can remember were always a part of PvE and end game content.
  • morsitansmorsitans Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,284 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Interesting response. Might say more about you than me, though. Starting your entire thread with "I'm so cool and I want to brag" is not exactly endearing, but hey.

    Think about it this way: it's a casual f2p game, for people without a lot of time but with a decent wedge of cash (or no cash but TONS of time). It's playing the "cast a wide but loose net" approach: they're going for "low-bar high-userbase" rather than "high-bar dedicated userbase".

    A few people paying lots of money (you do pay lots of money, right?) is less viable than a lot of people dropping a few bucks here and there. Plus even then there's a limit to how much the high-rollers are gonna chip in, whereas the casual drop in drop out crowd are a near-inexhaustible resource.

    What, exactly, is their milage in creating a giant, epic, uber dungeon that is only going to be played by a vanishingly small percentage of the playerbase? It's a ton of work for them, just so you can get...what, bragging rights? And of course "T3 lootz", making top tier players even more uber, and which would require endless balance patches (when they're having enough trouble with 'balance' as it is).

    Simply put, it's not trying to be that kind of game. There ARE games out there that cater to an insanely dedicated hardcore elite cadres that want to spam chat with boasting (probably), and I'd rather people who feel the need to do that...went elsewhere, personally.


    In all honesty, it'd be vastly easier for everyone if they just added more functionality to the foundry, so fans could make these uber dungeons.
  • munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    morsitans wrote: »
    Interesting response. Might say more about you than me, though. Starting your entire thread with "I'm so cool and I want to brag" is not exactly endearing, but hey.
    In all honesty, it'd be vastly easier for everyone if they just added more functionality to the foundry, so fans could make these uber dungeons.

    Not sure how you get "im so cool and I want to brag", out of me saying I want better content? Anyways, I agree with a bit of what your saying. I've made a post in the past asking the Devs to allow foundry creators to actually create Larger Dungeons/Raids etc.

    Raiding isnt just about "bragging" rights. Its actually fun for people. I for one love raiding. In a good guild raiding is a blast, brings your guild closer together and you get to know your guild very well. Plus why wouldnt anyone want to have the best gear, and be noticed for it? People spend crazy money on cosmetics, why not be able to earn it also.

    Far as me spending lots of $$ on this game I'm not sure your idea of lots is the same as mine. I spent the money for the HoTN pack, and I spend $15 a month on Zen to support the game. Not very much imo =/
  • morsitansmorsitans Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,284 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    This bit:
    give us hard core gamers actual content worth bragging about clearing.

    is sorta guaranteed to get my goat. I get enough pseudo trashtalk in PvP, I'd rather not have it spill over into PvE too. :p
  • munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    morsitans wrote: »
    This bit:


    is sorta guaranteed to get my goat. I get enough pseudo trashtalk in PvP, I'd rather not have it spill over into PvE too. :p

    Spose it can be viewed either way =)

    Not sure what your MMO experience is, but I've scored alot of server first/server wide kills in Raiding in my day and theres nothing better then that imo.(for me atleast). So its obvious a person like me is wanting Raids.

    I guess I cant help but always compare everything to EQ 1, thats my bar and I'm always chasing the dragon it seems.
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I don't know, I think the T2 dungeons are already hard enough. I still can't figure out how to beat Temple of the Spider.

    Edit: I should also point out that Epic Mad Dragon and Gray Wolf are also pretty challenging in their own rights, even though they are T1.
  • morsitansmorsitans Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,284 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Munkey: This is..kinda the problem: "FIRST" is a mindset that's difficult to cater to, because there is, by definition, only one person who can be first. MMOs have grown a lot since EQ days, and they don't all necessarily target the same demographics anymore.

    NWN is sorta perfect for me, since it's not tooo hard: given the hours I have available, I can reasonably expect to experience a large percentage of the content. I don't have to grind for hours, nor repeatedly fling myself to my death until my party collectively figures out the trick for any given boss (or whatever). Most MMOs require far more time and dedication than I can really afford to give.

    I do wish they'd add a hardmode, though. Guildwars did it, and it worked quite well. Exactly the same content, same quests, just...harder. No new uber drops (though perhaps a marginally higher drop rate), just..harder. So epic blacklake district etc. Basically newgame+. Add some hours of play, and give the stupidly high end dudes somewhere to mooch that isn't laughably easy. I mean, I'm not particularly good, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've died in normal (non-dungeon) PvE (I die like crazy in PvP and a fair few dungeons, ofc).
  • munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    morsitans wrote: »
    I do wish they'd add a hardmode, though. Guildwars did it, and it worked quite well. Exactly the same content, same quests, just...harder. No new uber drops (though perhaps a marginally higher drop rate), just..harder. So epic blacklake district etc. Basically newgame+. Add some hours of play, and give the stupidly high end dudes somewhere to mooch that isn't laughably easy. I mean, I'm not particularly good, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've died in normal (non-dungeon) PvE (I die like crazy in PvP and a fair few dungeons, ofc).

    See with that being said, I see no reason they cant introduce Epic 5 mans at the very least. They could use the same dungeons, just add onto them. Put a portal behind Draco, or door, etc, that in Epic unlocks to another section with a fiew more boss's for example.

    My deal is I'm a big fan of this game, and I would like to continue enjoying to play it. As of right now I still have an absolute blast playing all 3 of my characters in all aspects of the game(CW, DC,TR), but the content is much too easy.

    I realize demographics have largely changed since EQ 1, but I am still playing games, and thousands upon thousands of other people with the same or close to attitude, are obviously still playing, and all are constantly chasing that EQ 1 rush of End Game Content.

    If this is the biggest this game ever gets I am still happy with it, and will still continue to play for quite some time....But as even with casual gamers, only until the next best/better/differant game comes out. I played EQ for almost 9 years because they had an amazing game full of awesome HAMSTER to do. The only reason I quit actually is because I joined the Army and had no time for games for quite a fiew years, and by the time I got out, I was so far behind, as well as the game graphics compared to current games was so far behind it was pointless to even try again.
  • munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Double post...........
  • yokihiroyokihiro Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 510 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    If they would bring like 10 ppl boss fights that would be ok, the problem is that they plant hundreds of trash mobs in the way to the final boss that just cost you time. The interesting parts are the boss fights. I would not mind having very difficult boss fight that require 10-20 people to compete without the need to grind hourless through boring dungeons and trash mobs that drop green stuff. For example Everquest 2 had epics standing around in the open world, too. There was no need to grind through a dungeon to kill those bosses. They had timers so after being killed they took days to reapear. People camped there, logged in to see if they were up and then went killing. And even lower levels had some epics to kill that required like 12 to 20 people. That would be actually fun to do.
  • notslohgnotslohg Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    No thank you to 4 hour dungeons.

    All content should be open to everyone not just those who can spend 4-6 hours in a dungeon.

    Omg, I cannot believe that so many people have a problem with others trying to do more. Just because you don't want to spend the time means no one else should have it available to them? I am sure you are one of the people who drop out of a pug the first wipe and screw it up for the other four who have waited an hour or more just to have the queue pop. Getting tired of this attitude real fast.

    Would love to see a stiff penalty for those drop outs too. Maybe first to drop out has a 24 hour queue ban. That should give you the limited content your looking for.
  • sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    If dungeons are too easy and too short, there are three things you can do.

    1. Replace your good/best gear with worse gear. I am serious.
    2. Kill everything.
    3. Do not use exploits.
  • morsitansmorsitans Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,284 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    yokihiro wrote: »
    Everquest 2 had epics standing around in the open world, too.

    Yeah, I've played games that do things like that. Bosses that spawn once a day, with like...5 billion HP and that take 50 players an hour to take down. Not quite sure NW's maps are open enough, though. Nor, come to that, am I sure their instances could cope with 50 players... :P
  • dkcandydkcandy Member Posts: 1,555 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Here is the issue with your request:

    1. New "Epic" Dungeons would have bugs and player base will farm all of their gear in those "Epic" dungeons and the "Epic" gear will be all no longer Epic.

    2. After they eventually fix the bugs the player base that did not take advantage of the bugs will be unable to complete the "Epic" dungeons and the players that are capped won't run those "Epic" dungeons anymore.

    This is the current trend with the game with each release of a new dungeon as the game is actually "HARD" for casual gamers. This is why you see such a large amount of QQ's on the forums and in-game a lack of players queuing into T2's outside of DD.

    Currently the last bosses MC & CN are difficult and the challenge is fun. But the average population is unable to complete these dungeons.

    I really do like the concept of adding a "Hardmode" version to the current Epic Dungeons and special BoP Gear that's .5 higher stats. But the mobs would need to be tougher, hit harder and have no resurrections so you have to spawn at the campfire.
  • munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    dkcandy wrote: »
    I really do like the concept of adding a "Hardmode" version to the current Epic Dungeons and special BoP Gear that's .5 higher stats. But the mobs would need to be tougher, hit harder and have no resurrections so you have to spawn at the campfire.

    I agree with everything you said. Especially this part.

    I still enjoy very much so doing dungeons, but I find myself watching t.v and packing a new bowl quite often while playing. My attention isnt needed 100% on the game in order to achieve victory, and there lies my problem, and need/want for harder content.
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    munkey81 wrote: »
    I agree. All content should be open to everyone and it is. But end game gear should drop from actual "End Game" content which takes a good group of people to accomplish.

    But hard core gamers need something more. We need longer, bigger, harder dungeons. Like I keep saying, they already have casual gamer content. Its time for some real content meow.

    If you dont like doing long dungeons then simply dont do them. Having the attitude "everyone should be able to do everything" is not an opinion I share with anyone. There should absolutely be end game raids that take a skilled well geared group of players to finish, and many people will never be able to complete them because "most" people have the attitude like yours(which is fine)that a 4+hour dungeon/raid is ridiculous. Again, no one is forced to do a raid, and for obvious reasons the best gear always drops from end game raids.

    Having Raids in this game will affect your gameplay 0%. Having raids in this game will increase my enjoyment, and many others enjoyment 10 fold. I see no problem here

    If you want hardcore, you are at the wrong place. Cryptic does great casual games, that you don't have to invest your entire life to play. You have played CO and STO?

    It very much does affect my gameplay as this is gear (and a storyline)I would not be able to obtain and therefore puts me out of the PvP arms race....Its already crazy enough in there! It also takes devs from working on smaller dungeons as well. It is content for the few, as you said yourself "most" people think 4hr dungeon is ridiculous...so why cater to the minority?

    Did you know there is a foundry where one could potentially make their own super hard 4hour dungeon, and it wouldn't affect anyone's gameplay?
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    dkcandy wrote: »

    I really do like the concept of adding a "Hardmode" version to the current Epic Dungeons and special BoP Gear that's .5 higher stats. But the mobs would need to be tougher, hit harder and have no resurrections so you have to spawn at the campfire.

    This is a way better idea, and something I could support.
  • zalcszalcs Banned Users Posts: 345 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Raids would definitely be cool, as long as there's a point in running them. (BoP has to go, not for everything, but for most things)
  • jacksoonjacksoon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 332 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Why you don't simply go play WoW? 10 man dungeon o.0? i don't wont to stay inside a dungeon a whole day -.- I love the dungeon we have atm.
  • uri92uri92 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    munkey81 wrote: »
    I agree with everything you said. Especially this part.

    I still enjoy very much so doing dungeons, but I find myself watching t.v and packing a new bowl quite often while playing. My attention isnt needed 100% on the game in order to achieve victory, and there lies my problem, and need/want for harder content.

    Strip your toon and run the dungeon with 8300 GS and 0 epic enchants.
    Problem solved.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    - DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    The first boss of spider isn't bugged if you don't bump adds. After the first boss of FH you can bump all adds in a convenient hole.
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