I am wondering this very much. How is it a game called Dungeons and Dragons can have such bad Dungeons? Once I hit cap I went back to do all the lower level dungeons I was forced to skip. All the boss fights are the same. Boss does frontal attacks, dot somewhere on the group, a short range AOE and adds, lots and lots of adds. It takes forever to kill a boss because you spend at least half the time killing or trying to hide from the adds. They aren't some simple adds, they are solid elite adds. No wonder most of the people do not want to do a dungeon. It's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I spent ten minutes on a level thirty something boss, given I am a GWF and now a waste a space, but I am level sixty. I don't have the best gear, but I do have the t1 pvp sword.
How is it the dungeons in Dungeons and Dragons can be so bad?
Post edited by whoregut on
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Comments
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited August 2013
The short answer is that coding interesting and adaptive AI is hard, while plopping loads and loads of adds is easier, while still making people have to pay attention.
Any game where there's just a boss almost always boils down to tank spamming a taunt while everyone else DPS's and the cleric just keeps the tank healed.
In a perfect world, bosses would have behaviors unique to their background - like maybe some hate clerics more than others, or 1 boss tries to "infect" a teammate so they debuff those near them.
I can deal with some adds, but they should be both preventable and meaningful - they should fit the context of the boss encounter, instead of just serving to flood the combat area. There should be ways either during the fight or while on your way to the fight, to mitigate them.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I played many games and have found both challenging boss fights and boring ones. Many games seem to have a mix of both, but here I am not seeing it. So, it really comes down to laziness?
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I wanted to make the same topic as the OP, but there's no purpose anymore. My experience (epics):
- dungeons are nice as a theme and design
- trash packs are mostly OK
- boss fights are absolutely <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Red zones, huge boss HP, huge amount of adds with large amount of HP. To kill them traditionally with DPS/control takes a very, very overgeared party. So everybody exploits if they can ("experienced" runs...). They run to next campfire, they find safe spots, climb all kinds of walls, stay underneath boss etc. To deal with adds properly, you need a ledge and a CW to push them over, again and again, which I'm really unsure if it's an exploit or not, since some rooms are kinda designed for this to be possible IMO. And surely enough, adds spawn, and spawn... and spawn...
The better boss for now is the elder brain in DV:
- distinct phases
- not that many adds
- interesting environment, very nice esthetics
(this boss compensates though by giving no loot most of the times...)
The "perfect world" bioshrike mentioned exists, with unique bosses with their own mechanisms and abilities, and weaknesses sometimes, which can be interesting with, or without adds. I think everybody knows its name. So its possible to be done.
Pretty much. They are lazy about everything except making items to sell for zen.
Guess why Draco bugged... because it was copy/pasted to malabog and they fubared it.
Then end boss of MoTh skirmish is copy of 2nd FH boss essentially.
Then new top Sharandar weapons are replicas of CN weapons, just a few more stat points added.
It took them 3 months or more to put a leash on bosses, many other exploits are still here from day 1.
We have no reroll ability scores on respec.
We have no 2ndary hot bars for skills, so we clumsy have to scroll and change from powers window.
Many feats/powers have been bugged from day 1.
Every patch breaks more then it fixes. Every new content is exploitable.
This last disaster of a patch.. so much broken. Four days later we have a patch with a half dozen fixes.
Except nothing was fixed:
Draco, still bugged.
Unstoppable still bugged.
Client crashes, still crashing.
Foundry, still down.
The only thing that seems to get any real attention are economy exploits because they stand to lose zen sales (barring the nightmare box fiasco), and foundry issues.
Developers rarely, if ever, respond to issues on the forums.
There are no CSRs working on weekends.
This is the worst game development i have ever seen (no offense to the individual devs, it's not there fault and they work hard i'm sure).
It's completely obvious that the focus is on zen sales, because there is plenty of development of new pretties to sell to weekend wallet warriors.
The only saving grace i find in this game is the combat, because it is truly good. Otherwise, its laughable.
0
sarranspMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Pretty much. They are lazy about everything except making items to sell for zen.
Guess why Draco bugged... because it was copy/pasted to malabog and they fubared it.
Then end boss of MoTh skirmish is copy of 2nd FH boss essentially.
Then new top Sharandar weapons are replicas of CN weapons, just a few more stat points added.
It took them 3 months or more to put a leash on bosses, many other exploits are still here from day 1.
We have no reroll ability scores on respec.
We have no 2ndary hot bars for skills, so we clumsy have to scroll and change from powers window.
Many feats/powers have been bugged from day 1.
Every patch breaks more then it fixes. Every new content is exploitable.
This last disaster of a patch.. so much broken. Four days later we have a patch with a half dozen fixes.
Except nothing was fixed:
Draco, still bugged.
Unstoppable still bugged.
Client crashes, still crashing.
Foundry, still down.
The only thing that seems to get any real attention are economy exploits because they stand to lose zen sales (barring the nightmare box fiasco), and foundry issues.
Developers rarely, if ever, respond to issues on the forums.
There are no CSRs working on weekends.
This is the worst game development i have ever seen (no offense to the individual devs, it's not there fault and they work hard i'm sure).
It's completely obvious that the focus is on zen sales, because there is plenty of development of new pretties to sell to weekend wallet warriors.
The only saving grace i find in this game is the combat, because it is truly good. Otherwise, its laughable.
Dungeons look great. But otherwise, the mechanics lack any flavor and repetition is high. So far, 1 out of 5 stars. Some of the worst dungeons I've ever played.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Dungeons look great. But otherwise, the mechanics lack any flavor and repetition is high. So far, 1 out of 5 stars. Some of the worst dungeons I've ever played.
Pretty much this . I wonder how they even have the balls to post the reviews from some unknown gaming websites here on the forums " hey look guize we got 9 on some website that noone has ever heard of derp "
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
0
ugarthMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
Pretty much. They are lazy about everything except making items to sell for zen.
Guess why Draco bugged... because it was copy/pasted to malabog and they fubared it.
Then end boss of MoTh skirmish is copy of 2nd FH boss essentially.
Then new top Sharandar weapons are replicas of CN weapons, just a few more stat points added.
It took them 3 months or more to put a leash on bosses, many other exploits are still here from day 1.
We have no reroll ability scores on respec.
We have no 2ndary hot bars for skills, so we clumsy have to scroll and change from powers window.
Many feats/powers have been bugged from day 1.
Every patch breaks more then it fixes. Every new content is exploitable.
This last disaster of a patch.. so much broken. Four days later we have a patch with a half dozen fixes.
Except nothing was fixed:
Draco, still bugged.
Unstoppable still bugged.
Client crashes, still crashing.
Foundry, still down.
The only thing that seems to get any real attention are economy exploits because they stand to lose zen sales (barring the nightmare box fiasco), and foundry issues.
Developers rarely, if ever, respond to issues on the forums.
There are no CSRs working on weekends.
This is the worst game development i have ever seen (no offense to the individual devs, it's not there fault and they work hard i'm sure).
It's completely obvious that the focus is on zen sales, because there is plenty of development of new pretties to sell to weekend wallet warriors.
The only saving grace i find in this game is the combat, because it is truly good. Otherwise, its laughable.
About sums it up for me as well. Well put.
0
reshaimMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 21Arc User
Sigh, Dungeons in this game aren't worth it. Even going back to lower level dungeons when capped and geared. The bosses do nothing but aoe and adds. I spend more time trying to avoid stuff then fighting. Should just make a boss that you don't fight, but avoid all his attacks. Dodge ball boss, lol.
Pretty much this . I wonder how they even have the balls to post the reviews from some unknown gaming websites here on the forums " hey look guize we got 9 on some website that noone has ever heard of derp "
I do understand the reviews though, pre-60 the game is a real charm, after that it becomes more of a schizophrenic experience. They've really made a mess by not (AD) wiping after beta, allowing a score of players with billions on their accounts to completely dominate the Auction House. Dungeons are tweaked and tuned to farming groups with 12k+ gearscores, and now they're supposed to be run by groups in blues, repeatedly, to get an even lesser chance at an epic drop.
Income in relation to the price of stuff is totally skewed and the refine-limit makes sure that even if you can salvalge the maximum amount each time, it will take more than 40 days to get your first million.
Post-60 is just a whole lot more adds with a whole lot more hp, still doing the same old things as before only this time you'll need gear you can't afford and can hardly loot.
Fury of the Bugfest, their ambivalent stance on exploiting, severe lack of quality control, nerfings beyond reason and a whole lot of attention to fluff that only money can buy are why I've only been praying for the last weeks.
Let's simply admit it,everything in this game sucks,even with a dream set of armors and weapons u still die like nuts,the mobs do the same damage,exp my TR has 20-22% dmg reduction and gets like 1200-1500 normal damage,while my GWF has 40% and gets the same damage from mobs and it has sentinel spec,this game has no balance,the adds are pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>,the lvl 60 boss with a few adds would be enough,I don't even wanna talk about MC,it's horrible,wipe from the first boss,why, because of the adds,this is not WoW,they have the resources to make a balanced fight with a lot of mobs this is NWN,even with the perfect team u still die,even with the perfect tactics u still wipe.All that gs means nothing because u still get tons of damage from the boss and the adds finish u quick.When u kill a set of adds,another one appears with even more powerfull mobs,and so on,the boss is nothing in comp with the adds,they are the real boss.So were is the challange in all of this,none,because u simply kill the same boring and annoyng mobs and try to touch something called boss in the process.This is not something that entertains u,this is something stupid and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Comments
Any game where there's just a boss almost always boils down to tank spamming a taunt while everyone else DPS's and the cleric just keeps the tank healed.
In a perfect world, bosses would have behaviors unique to their background - like maybe some hate clerics more than others, or 1 boss tries to "infect" a teammate so they debuff those near them.
I can deal with some adds, but they should be both preventable and meaningful - they should fit the context of the boss encounter, instead of just serving to flood the combat area. There should be ways either during the fight or while on your way to the fight, to mitigate them.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
- dungeons are nice as a theme and design
- trash packs are mostly OK
- boss fights are absolutely <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Red zones, huge boss HP, huge amount of adds with large amount of HP. To kill them traditionally with DPS/control takes a very, very overgeared party. So everybody exploits if they can ("experienced" runs...). They run to next campfire, they find safe spots, climb all kinds of walls, stay underneath boss etc. To deal with adds properly, you need a ledge and a CW to push them over, again and again, which I'm really unsure if it's an exploit or not, since some rooms are kinda designed for this to be possible IMO. And surely enough, adds spawn, and spawn... and spawn...
The better boss for now is the elder brain in DV:
- distinct phases
- not that many adds
- interesting environment, very nice esthetics
(this boss compensates though by giving no loot most of the times...)
The "perfect world" bioshrike mentioned exists, with unique bosses with their own mechanisms and abilities, and weaknesses sometimes, which can be interesting with, or without adds. I think everybody knows its name. So its possible to be done.
Internship.
Also, I am not the only one then? Maybe time for a poll or has that been done?
Pretty much. They are lazy about everything except making items to sell for zen.
Guess why Draco bugged... because it was copy/pasted to malabog and they fubared it.
Then end boss of MoTh skirmish is copy of 2nd FH boss essentially.
Then new top Sharandar weapons are replicas of CN weapons, just a few more stat points added.
It took them 3 months or more to put a leash on bosses, many other exploits are still here from day 1.
We have no reroll ability scores on respec.
We have no 2ndary hot bars for skills, so we clumsy have to scroll and change from powers window.
Many feats/powers have been bugged from day 1.
Every patch breaks more then it fixes. Every new content is exploitable.
This last disaster of a patch.. so much broken. Four days later we have a patch with a half dozen fixes.
Except nothing was fixed:
Draco, still bugged.
Unstoppable still bugged.
Client crashes, still crashing.
Foundry, still down.
The only thing that seems to get any real attention are economy exploits because they stand to lose zen sales (barring the nightmare box fiasco), and foundry issues.
Developers rarely, if ever, respond to issues on the forums.
There are no CSRs working on weekends.
This is the worst game development i have ever seen (no offense to the individual devs, it's not there fault and they work hard i'm sure).
It's completely obvious that the focus is on zen sales, because there is plenty of development of new pretties to sell to weekend wallet warriors.
The only saving grace i find in this game is the combat, because it is truly good. Otherwise, its laughable.
Perfectly written. Everything about this is true.
Dungeons look great. But otherwise, the mechanics lack any flavor and repetition is high. So far, 1 out of 5 stars. Some of the worst dungeons I've ever played.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Pretty much this . I wonder how they even have the balls to post the reviews from some unknown gaming websites here on the forums " hey look guize we got 9 on some website that noone has ever heard of derp "
About sums it up for me as well. Well put.
Exactly mu though!
I do understand the reviews though, pre-60 the game is a real charm, after that it becomes more of a schizophrenic experience. They've really made a mess by not (AD) wiping after beta, allowing a score of players with billions on their accounts to completely dominate the Auction House. Dungeons are tweaked and tuned to farming groups with 12k+ gearscores, and now they're supposed to be run by groups in blues, repeatedly, to get an even lesser chance at an epic drop.
Income in relation to the price of stuff is totally skewed and the refine-limit makes sure that even if you can salvalge the maximum amount each time, it will take more than 40 days to get your first million.
Post-60 is just a whole lot more adds with a whole lot more hp, still doing the same old things as before only this time you'll need gear you can't afford and can hardly loot.
Fury of the Bugfest, their ambivalent stance on exploiting, severe lack of quality control, nerfings beyond reason and a whole lot of attention to fluff that only money can buy are why I've only been praying for the last weeks.