I mean. I'm a GWF. I meet a rogue. He Attacks from stealth, draining lots of my hp. Then he go ITC. I sprint away but he can still throw knives. I go usntoppable and attack once his ITC runs out. He can dodge. And dodge. And dodge. (gwfs encounters are easy to dodge). My unstoppable runs out. He can attack again, go ITC again, dodge again. How do i counter?
Ok, I'll give a reply as a rogue.
A GWF spots me and vice versa (let's imagine at least a partial 1v1 situation). I wait him to run towards me and enter stealth and dodge slightly before he gets to me. Boom, a missed encounter and cd on (although very short one).
I throw some knives and enter with ItC. Many, many GWFs spam their encounters on my ItC which is rather... unskilled play. When they go Unstoppable, I usually run away and use some knives.
After some time I usually have my stealth ready and I will pretty much repeat what I did before.
I don't know who you are so I haven't seen your playing but trust me, 90% of the GWFs use their cooldowns when trying to catch the rogue in stealth or when ItC is on. Try to avoid those two, if the rogue drains your health quickly from stealth and you have no chance toe-to-toe, then there is a gear difference which should fix within time.
Bottom line: don't use your encounters when they would hit. Anticipate what the rogue will be doing the next second and time your hit there. It's not easy and it doesn't work all the time, but trust me, it is experience from which that comes from.
//edit
And if the anticipating sounds stupid, I can tell it's pretty easy to bring down CWs when they blink to me while I wait in stealth
Hundreds of trials and errors can make a difference in your playing.
Typical forum rouge in action. Your initial choice of a class does not warrant this condescending tone. I sure hope that Cryptic will nerf the hell out of your class, so CWs or GWFs will be teaching you to play in the exact same words.
I main a Cleric and have one of every class. I do this so I know the strengths and weaknesses of each class. Do you have anything to add to the actual topic of this discussion or are you going to continue desperately trying to draw attention away from the fact that the majority of people calling for TR nerfs don't know what they are talking about?
Since many ppl says Impossible to Catch, an encounter skill of TR, is "OP as hell" I've here below on how to counter it.
(ITC is only 3 secs, w/ stealth it's 5 secs. and completely Immune)
BTW if you're having trouble with a certain class in PvP, try to study their skills first before begging for nerf in forums.
Since the TR have been called OP in PvP since day 1 why not learn how the class works first before complaining here in forums.
What! You mean I have to pay attention and read and know stuff to get good at PvP?! **** it I just want to faceroll my PvP victories and demands nerfs when i don't. Don't ask me to actually make an effort! You're not the boss of me!
You said it TR are dd. That's why impossible to catch should NOT provide a TR with 100% damage resistance. 25% would be too much already. If you do not want to get hit, dodge or use stealth.
Now let's be honest, TR can tank, dps, heal better than any other class there is. And it is just a matter of time until they're getting hit on the head, with a gigantic nerfhammer, that big even a half-orc would shrink to halfling size... And some of you know it, that's why you're starting to cry about it, already.
Let's see, if the TR "QQ - happymeal - club" can prevent their precious OP bs from getting nerfed, one more time. I highly doubt it. The incoming nerfs/adjustments will most likely take quite a bit of the survivability of the TR, since that's the main complaint right now. If you like it, or not... It is common sense. 1+1=2.
Do you even play PVP? The quota is 2 of each class in each team. Since the TR is easy mode most will play one, thus making the quota full most of the time. That is 4 TR in total = 2 in each team. More than that is possible but then it's a premade.
So again, if there is a stealth rogue near me I don't know if I'm going to be dazed, lashed, CoS (rare nowadays) or Impact shotted. I wasn't saying I had 2 TR on me at the same time.
Since I'm making this up. Do you have any proof of me saying anything about 4 Impact shot and ItC? Didn't think so.
Oh, and panic about Lashing? How about getting one shotted by lashing from stealth? Naaaaaaaa, just stand still since you've never been hit by a lashing from stealth and absolutely never been one shotted by one.
But then again, you are not the CW and not playing much PVP anyway.
If the Rogue is ItC and using Impact Shot - blink, kite and LoS. They can't chase you while spamming Impact Shot and it's range is 40'. It's quite easy to blink dodge Impact Shot and then outrange it as a CW. Also, if the Rogue has used Impact Shot in stealth, they aren't going full immune with ItC so what is your point? That you can't use dodge effectively? That the Rogue is using high level enchants to hit really hard? Neither point is justification for nerfing the class.
Ok so now the Rogue is using Lash, Daze and Impact Shot... no room for ItC is there? You keep moving the goalposts champ. They can't use every ability you've listed across your posts at once. Which is it? Also, whether the Rogue is in stealth or not makes no difference as to what abilities they are using UNTIL THEY USE THEM. I don't know what ability ANY player will use against me until I see them use it. So... a class should be nerfed because you can't tell what they are using before they use it?
Yes! It's quite clear you panic about it. You're reply highlights this further. In essence "I don't want to be one-shot". To which I say "it might happen". Must be one helluva geared Rogue to do it. To date I haven't been one-shot on my CW and I run around with 9.4k gs. The Rogue has to come within visual range (regardless of stealth) to Lash and it's not that easy to land. I've dodged Lash by continuing to move around when I knew a Rogue was near (without blinking at all). They literally have to be right on top of you for it to connect.
Stop making excuses for what appears to be poor play. Better yet, roll a Rogue and learn it's weaknesses. They are nowhere near as powerful as you think they are.
Well since it's the weakest class by far now in PvP oficially and it's still bringing in so many tears then there might be something true to that statement..
16k with greater vorpal means:
11,6k without vorpal
13k with lesser vorpal
14,5k with normal vorpal
Please check what the 11,6k alternative cost on Dragon since that is pretty close to 50% of my HP.
Oh, nm... the 11,6k alternative was free of charge.
"Yep, cause everyone has that. Nerf the entire class!!11111!"
Ill refer you to this post.
If the Rogue is ItC and using Impact Shot - blink, kite and LoS. They can't chase you while spamming Impact Shot and it's range is 40'. It's quite easy to blink dodge Impact Shot and then outrange it as a CW. Also, if the Rogue has used Impact Shot in stealth, they aren't going full immune with ItC so what is your point? That you can't use dodge effectively? That the Rogue is using high level enchants to hit really hard? Neither point is justification for nerfing the class.
Ok so now the Rogue is using Lash, Daze and Impact Shot... no room for ItC is there? You keep moving the goalposts champ. They can't use every ability you've listed across your posts at once. Which is it? Also, whether the Rogue is in stealth or not makes no difference as to what abilities they are using UNTIL THEY USE THEM. I don't know what ability ANY player will use against me until I see them use it. So... a class should be nerfed because you can't tell what they are using before they use it?
Yes! It's quite clear you panic about it. You're reply highlights this further. In essence "I don't want to be one-shot". To which I say "it might happen". Must be one helluva geared Rogue to do it. To date I haven't been one-shot on my CW and I run around with 9.4k gs. The Rogue has to come within visual range (regardless of stealth) to Lash and it's not that easy to land. I've dodged Lash by continuing to move around when I knew a Rogue was near (without blinking at all). They literally have to be right on top of you for it to connect.
Stop making excuses for what appears to be poor play. Better yet, roll a Rogue and learn it's weaknesses. They are nowhere near as powerful as you think they are.
16k with greater vorpal means:
11,6k without vorpal
13k with lesser vorpal
14,5k with normal vorpal
Please check what the 11,6k alternative cost on Dragon since that is pretty close to 50% of my HP.
Oh, nm... the 11,6k alternative was free of charge.
"Yep, cause everyone has that. Nerf the entire class!!11111!"
So is the shift-key (free of charge).
I regularly get 10k+ crits with Chill Strike and I'm running a Lesser Holy Avenger. Guess they should nerf that too. How about Ice Knife or maybe the huge debuff from Ray in Mastery? Or how about they fact that I can sit on a pillar or bridge and do all of that with near impunity. :O I guess other classes can hit hard too. What was your point again?
If you get into the 40' radius of a Rogue you are going to take damage. How much depends on what abilities they are running and your ability to figure it out and counter.
I can't believe you are tossing heal in this. Is this some kind of sly trolling? Please do tell, how do we heal?
My TR heals very well, but that is because he stacks lifesteal. There are some builds that stack blue regen items like the pre-nerf Seal of the Executioner, and those are fantastic for staying alive while running away. With a DPS CW who doesn't carry any real CC running away when out of stealth is the best way to go, so that likely looks like healing.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
16k with greater vorpal means:
11,6k without vorpal
13k with lesser vorpal
14,5k with normal vorpal
Please check what the 11,6k alternative cost on Dragon since that is pretty close to 50% of my HP.
Oh, nm... the 11,6k alternative was free of charge.
"Yep, cause everyone has that. Nerf the entire class!!11111!"
Well, actually yes. My CW hits that regularly and has had much higher crits with Ice Knife - without a vorpal. My DC used to hit that with Hammer, until it was nerfed. My GF usually doesn't hit that high, but he can take just about anything so he gets there eventually.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Wow, you really surprise me! My point is… here it comes... look closely... wait... now... they are invisible when they attack! I can’t see them and they can, in some cases, kill me before I see them.
In other cases they can stun me from stealth while removing more than 50% of my life and if they have fast ping I can’t do anything about it before next Impact shot hits.
Yes, yes, I know it’s hard to take in at once. Most people here on the forum can’t grasp the concept of being killed from stealth. But it’s true, trust me!
And about the shift key. Do you think I sit and watch?
Wow, you really surprise me! My point is… here it comes... look closely... wait... now... they are invisible when they attack! I can’t see them and they can, in some cases, kill me before I see them.
In other cases they can stun me from stealth while removing more than 50% of my life and if they have fast ping I can’t do anything about it before next Impact shot hits.
Yes, yes, I know it’s hard to take in at once. Most people here on the forum can’t grasp the concept of being killed from stealth. But it’s true, trust me!
And about the shift key. Do you think I sit and watch?
If a Rogue is killing you before you see them chances are you were already half-dead. If not, then you need to work on your situational awareness. Rogues are visible in stealth at close range. You can also hear Rogue abilities activate while they are nearby (Lurkers in particular). Your lack of awareness is not justification for a nerf.
Once again, your story changes. Now it's not a one-shot but getting taken to ~50% and then not dodging effectively due to lag. Your latency is not justification for a nerf.
What I think happens is that you are getting attacked by other enemies and the Rogue finishes you off in an ambush. Rogues are good at that. However, if that is the case, you weren't soloed by a Rogue were you? Getting focused is not justification for a nerf.
There's nothing hard to understand about stealth. When a Rogue is in stealth, it has the upper hand. When it's out of stealth, it's very VERY vulnerable. Good teams know this and kill them when they can see them. The fact that they can land a hard hit (that's ONE hard hit) from stealth doesn't make the class broken no matter how much you wish it. You just seem to struggle dealing with stealth classes. From what I've read of your other posts, GWF and GF struggle to deal with you. By your thinking GWF and GF must need a buff because you kill them most of the time.
Regarding shift - no, I think you use it at the wrong time. Use shift to dodge attacks, not extend. I also think that you are positioning yourself too far from allies, which makes you an easy ambush target.
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blasphemous7Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I'm a little iffy when it comes to nerfing TRs. I think they may need a little adjusting, but not much. It is pretty normal in MMO's for the nerf bat to hit pretty hard, essentially killing a class, which would be a shame if Cryptic did it. The problem may not even really be in the TR line, but more in how armor is calculated.
If we go based on old school fantasy "rules", a wizard shouldn't stand a chance to a rogue. They should be dead most of the time. But when a GWF and a TR are toe to toe, the GWF should tear him apart. Pure melee DPS is the typical fantasy counter for rogues. That just isn't always the case. In Neverwinter, a GWF CAN tear a rogue apart, played properly by a skilled GWF. However, I think that's the problem. The GWF has to be on a much higher level than the rogue. Equally skilled and geared, the TR will win and I don't think that should be the case.
I think most of the complaints are just typical PvP novices whining for a nerf because they run around like crazy people, spamming powers and wondering why they lose every time. However, there is something wrong that gives TR's a slight edge that they really shouldn't have.
As a side note, any GF complaining about TRs... seriously, learn your class. You have no excuse and TRs should be the least of your worries.
Wow, you really surprise me! My point is… here it comes... look closely... wait... now... they are invisible when they attack! I can’t see them and they can, in some cases, kill me before I see them.
Right, and you have skills that allow you to hit invisible attackers with AoE's. As a CW, you should be able to damage them in stealth and unless they have Tactics slotted as a passive and/or have Lurker's Assault up that will suck their stealth right away. If they're massively outgearing you with BiS kit including rank 10's and a perfect vorpal they may be able to one-shot you (assuming you don't have Shield active or any defense that their ArPen doesn't shred), but as soon as they hit you why don't you move and hit back with an AoE? The most damaging TR skills will break stealth unless they are using Lurker's Assault.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
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blasphemous7Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Thinking about it more, I think the issue is really with armor. It should be a challenge for a rogue to take out a cleric or GWF and extremely difficult to take down GFs, even poorly played. You're using daggers! I think if armor counted just a little bit more towards damage reduction, we would see the playing field even itself out.
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
CW is on a base and is getting CoS:ed. Counting the knifes and ports 1 time watching for the TR - with 80 % life. CW now see on the base marker that the rogue is also on the base. CW ports again when he expect the Lashing is coming to get off the base and ports again to create distance.
Then the Impact shot is coming - CW at 50% HP. The TR now presses the ItC and chain spam Impact shot, while the CW is out of ports. For 2,3 sec the CW is thinking about how incredible stupid it is that a TR gets ItC when in fact the CW should have it since he's wearing a bath robe. CW dies and the TR think he's a real skilled player.
End.
Thanks abacuser for making yourself look like more of a fool. Your own thread showed you did not know how to play and were crying instead of learning. Spreading lies and trying to get a class nerfed simply because you are biased against them is pathetic.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Guys, you can stop crying now. The TR nerf is inevitable. I hope it will come with the next bigger update. TR currently can do everything at once, which is a no-go. Dps/tank/heal in 1 character. While the other classes can't even properly do, what they are supposed to do. This is going on for too long already and it's time to finally put a stop to it. The only ones delusional on here, are the ones that are trying to defend this OP class. Everything stated by TR is either a lie, or a pitiful attempt to make TR look weaker than they actually are. Give it up, already. Massive crying saved the oh so precious OP class once, but it's not going to happen twice. I think we can all agree on that, geniuses.
#edit:
The developers really should take a look at the TR "Jump dodging" it is similar to using at-wills during a jump. (a bug)
Best of luck.
Just wait every class will be nerfed again. It will be fun watching people from every class cry even more when every class is destroyed because of cry babies. Mwahaha.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
The truth is that the combo stealth + dazing strike + ITC is almost 15s of total benefit to the rogue (still has LA and Smoke bomb than give more 5s denial of damage). No class can prevent damage as the rogue, and he should be the meele class more vulnerable.
Thinking about it more, I think the issue is really with armor. It should be a challenge for a rogue to take out a cleric or GWF and extremely difficult to take down GFs, even poorly played. You're using daggers! I think if armor counted just a little bit more towards damage reduction, we would see the playing field even itself out.
That didn't work so well if you're knocked off your feet, then you're easy prey for a guy with a dagger or a club.
Given the way that any class can stack defense (obviously easier for some than for others) there are multiple factors involved. For those who want more realism in their fantasy games, that defense value can be dodging or simply taking it on a breastplate - which does get damaged when it takes a hard hit.
Since a GWF wears scale and a cleric wears mail, they're actually quite vulnerable to being stabbed with daggers and less vulnerable to being cut with a longsword.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Mmmm... i'de like to have some help, so i'll join in.
Just 1 thing to say about the GWF description in the op: GWFs right now are not 50-50 damage-tank. If you go destroyer you're 50% dd and more squishy than a TR, since you can't go stealth or dodge or go ITC. If you go sentinel without tenes, you're still very tanky (even with unstoppable nerf) but 0% dd. I think any gwf can agree on these.
My question about the vs TR strategies mentioned:
If you run away from a TR who's ITC (just like you would do with a GWF who is Unstoppable. Which still got nerfed), then can't he just throw knives at you from the distance, while you can't hit him?
If you try to chase him using your Mount:
While your Mount appears, wouldn't he be able to summon his Mount too?
If you reach him using your Mount, wouldn't he still be able to dodge when you reach him and off-Mount to attack? (even more if you're a gwf, since your Attacks are so slow that even a AFK TR would be able to dodge them).
If you try to chase him using your Mount, he could just throw knives at you and dismount you, causing you to prone, giving him more time to run away.
I mean. I'm a GWF. I meet a rogue. He Attacks from stealth, draining lots of my hp. Then he go ITC. I sprint away but he can still throw knives. I go usntoppable and attack once his ITC runs out. He can dodge. And dodge. And dodge. (gwfs encounters are easy to dodge). My unstoppable runs out. He can attack again, go ITC again, dodge again. How do i counter?
There's a reason gwf's have "come get some" it's your best friend against them fkin rogues. lol Many a time I've encountered a perm stealth or a rogue that like to hide and like to throw daggers and run, just pop come get some, this will ALWAYS reveal them> drag them in and make them prone then a quick flourish + ibs and another dead roach. Your welcome.:)
Queen of Dragon Server
Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
Wait wait......EVERY NERF BAT has been swung at the TR in EVERY nerf patch(including other classes, but TR seems to be constant) and you guys want MORE?
Can u see a pattern here? First it was shocking execution,then it was duelist, then it was L.a., then now you're complaining about ITC.
Sheesh. i feel sorry for you, WHAT is gonna save you from realising YOURE LOUSY when there is nothing left to nerf of other classes?
Anyways....now that unstoppable is fixed and sent regen gwf is back to being a *must need minimum 3 players to kill* class, i'll chill. I understand it will take awhile for some of these "special" children to realise they're losing a match cos they need to send 3 ppl to their home base to spend about 3 minutes to kill ONE GUY, and the result is the other 4 enemies FACEROLL the remaining 2 left out there...BUT it will be realised...and the heat will go to the appropriate place.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Wait wait......EVERY NERF BAT has been swung at the TR in EVERY nerf patch(including other classes, but TR seems to be constant) and you guys want MORE?
Can u see a pattern here? First it was shocking execution,then it was duelist, then it was L.a., then now you're complaining about ITC.
Sheesh. i feel sorry for you, WHAT is gonna save you from realising YOURE LOUSY when there is nothing left to nerf of other classes?
Anyways....now that unstoppable is fixed and sent regen gwf is back to being a *must need minimum 3 players to kill* class, i'll chill. I understand it will take awhile for some of these "special" children to realise they're losing a match cos they need to send 3 ppl to their home base to spend about 3 minutes to kill ONE GUY, and the result is the other 4 enemies FACEROLL the remaining 2 left out there...BUT it will be realised...and the heat will go to the appropriate place.
I predicted this to happen even when the nerfs were only on the test shard. Whiners will continue to whine even when there is nothing to whine about at all. What is funny is when a whiner puts a video up showing the game is not unbalanced and yet the whiner claims it is. Just hilarious to be honest.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Replies weren't enough to convince me that ITC deserves a nerf, but I agree that Impact shot is quite OP, with 3-4 charges and stun in stealth, a late game geared TR will surely be OP with this. My opinion it's the critical of Impact Shot that makes it OP for others, so the encunter skill isn't rly OP it only needs a slight nerf. So far from the replies I've read... I've realized there are quite a lot of PvP beginners here, simply doesn't know how to counter their weaknesses. TR is OP for the common ppl(which is unskilled in PvP) they are too lazy to improve their performance on how to counter a rogue. I've a CW class, since my TR is my main, I've no problem dealing with TRs in 1v1 for I know their strengths and weaknesses. The main problem of the majority is that they don't know how the TR works they thought TR is very simple "Easy mode" to use, yet they complain. I agree TR is an easy class, but before you come out with that conclusion, please give the TR a try then compare to other melee class, and soon you'll realize how GF and GWF is easier to use.
L2P
Mmmm... i'de like to have some help, so i'll join in.
Just 1 thing to say about the GWF description in the op: GWFs right now are not 50-50 damage-tank. If you go destroyer you're 50% dd and more squishy than a TR, since you can't go stealth or dodge or go ITC. If you go sentinel without tenes, you're still very tanky (even with unstoppable nerf) but 0% dd. I think any gwf can agree on these.
My question about the vs TR strategies mentioned:
If you run away from a TR who's ITC (just like you would do with a GWF who is Unstoppable. Which still got nerfed), then can't he just throw knives at you from the distance, while you can't hit him?
If you try to chase him using your Mount:
While your Mount appears, wouldn't he be able to summon his Mount too?
If you reach him using your Mount, wouldn't he still be able to dodge when you reach him and off-Mount to attack? (even more if you're a gwf, since your Attacks are so slow that even a AFK TR would be able to dodge them).
If you try to chase him using your Mount, he could just throw knives at you and dismount you, causing you to prone, giving him more time to run away.
I mean. I'm a GWF. I meet a rogue. He Attacks from stealth, draining lots of my hp. Then he go ITC. I sprint away but he can still throw knives. I go usntoppable and attack once his ITC runs out. He can dodge. And dodge. And dodge. (gwfs encounters are easy to dodge). My unstoppable runs out. He can attack again, go ITC again, dodge again. How do i counter?
Now that CoS has only 8 knifes, you as a GWF;will that rly hurt you? A TR who has the same GS with you can only take away 10%-15% of your HP with only 8 knifes. "I sprint away but he can still throw knives." TR can no longer throw daggers while jumping(In case you don't know), if he throws dagger while you're sprinting away from him, you'll definitely be able to escape for he can't move while throwing knifes.
You dealing with TR
I suggest that you use unstoppable then only use your At-will(Gives u more atk speed with Unst.)TR won't be able to exchange blows with you when a GWF is immune with daze. When he dodge, immediately sprint where the direction of roll is going, then CC him right after the dodge. If this fails, that means the TR dodge away again from you, but the consequence of doing this is huge for them(Rogues can only dodge 2 consecutive times). Why? he have to wait for a while to get his stamina back to dodge again and you've enough time to sprint towards him and tear him apart.
There was a guy who exaggerated that TR always succeeds on escaping even if there are 3 players chasing him. I gave him a tip on how to chase the TR if you're 2 or more players(1 Player isn't that enough to chase a TR down, but CWs sometimes can). With ITC and 2 dodge, They would probably be able to escape most of the time if you're the only one chasing him, BUT if you're 2; the other one(range)can attack the TR to prevent it from using mount, then the other one which is you(GWF) can use your mount and chase him. The moment he uses CoS, his movement will stop, you must simply unmount(press 6) before u get hit 3 or more times(simply be alert when facing a TR at all times) Since his movement stopped, your range ally can hit him more or CC him so he won't be able to use mount, this makes u close to the TR. Simply repeat the steps to get closer to him, it doesn't take long to chase him down.
If you're the only one chasing the TR with ITC, it's barely possible to chase him down if you're a GWF. Is that your reason why TR is OP? From your reply thread, I believe this is the most possible reason why a TR is OP for you.
Thus why, there are so many people complaining, because they cant bother to learn the fundamentals of what/who they fight.
If they cant kill anything in a straight 1 on 1 fight. Its OP. The only tactic they know is Zerg/full assault and cant fathom about any other tactic besides that.
This is indeed the sad reality in MMOs, many ppl are unskilled or not experience enough in gaming, yet they confidently post their whines here on forums because they know that he's not the only one who thinks like that.
There are so many reply threads here that I wanted to reply on how to teach them in dealing with their problem. Doing that would srsly waste a lot of time, and I am not willing to be a teacher, for u must learn on how to learn it yourself. It only requires logical thinking and knowledge about the class to learn how to counter your weaknesses against them. Be open minded, but the majority's opinion is not always true, for the majority in this game are the casual gamers who thinks that when there are many ppl who thinks the same as them, they thought they are correct and being narrow minded and close to new ideas.
Comments
Ok, I'll give a reply as a rogue.
A GWF spots me and vice versa (let's imagine at least a partial 1v1 situation). I wait him to run towards me and enter stealth and dodge slightly before he gets to me. Boom, a missed encounter and cd on (although very short one).
I throw some knives and enter with ItC. Many, many GWFs spam their encounters on my ItC which is rather... unskilled play. When they go Unstoppable, I usually run away and use some knives.
After some time I usually have my stealth ready and I will pretty much repeat what I did before.
I don't know who you are so I haven't seen your playing but trust me, 90% of the GWFs use their cooldowns when trying to catch the rogue in stealth or when ItC is on. Try to avoid those two, if the rogue drains your health quickly from stealth and you have no chance toe-to-toe, then there is a gear difference which should fix within time.
Bottom line: don't use your encounters when they would hit. Anticipate what the rogue will be doing the next second and time your hit there. It's not easy and it doesn't work all the time, but trust me, it is experience from which that comes from.
//edit
And if the anticipating sounds stupid, I can tell it's pretty easy to bring down CWs when they blink to me while I wait in stealth
Hundreds of trials and errors can make a difference in your playing.
I main a Cleric and have one of every class. I do this so I know the strengths and weaknesses of each class. Do you have anything to add to the actual topic of this discussion or are you going to continue desperately trying to draw attention away from the fact that the majority of people calling for TR nerfs don't know what they are talking about?
Oh, and it's Rogue, not Rouge.
What! You mean I have to pay attention and read and know stuff to get good at PvP?! **** it I just want to faceroll my PvP victories and demands nerfs when i don't. Don't ask me to actually make an effort! You're not the boss of me!
Nerf all classes....that beat me in PvP!
I can't believe you are tossing heal in this. Is this some kind of sly trolling? Please do tell, how do we heal?
If the Rogue is ItC and using Impact Shot - blink, kite and LoS. They can't chase you while spamming Impact Shot and it's range is 40'. It's quite easy to blink dodge Impact Shot and then outrange it as a CW. Also, if the Rogue has used Impact Shot in stealth, they aren't going full immune with ItC so what is your point? That you can't use dodge effectively? That the Rogue is using high level enchants to hit really hard? Neither point is justification for nerfing the class.
Ok so now the Rogue is using Lash, Daze and Impact Shot... no room for ItC is there? You keep moving the goalposts champ. They can't use every ability you've listed across your posts at once. Which is it? Also, whether the Rogue is in stealth or not makes no difference as to what abilities they are using UNTIL THEY USE THEM. I don't know what ability ANY player will use against me until I see them use it. So... a class should be nerfed because you can't tell what they are using before they use it?
Yes! It's quite clear you panic about it. You're reply highlights this further. In essence "I don't want to be one-shot". To which I say "it might happen". Must be one helluva geared Rogue to do it. To date I haven't been one-shot on my CW and I run around with 9.4k gs. The Rogue has to come within visual range (regardless of stealth) to Lash and it's not that easy to land. I've dodged Lash by continuing to move around when I knew a Rogue was near (without blinking at all). They literally have to be right on top of you for it to connect.
Stop making excuses for what appears to be poor play. Better yet, roll a Rogue and learn it's weaknesses. They are nowhere near as powerful as you think they are.
Tr is the weakest class by far in pvp?
ahahhahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AHAHAHAHHHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....
ty for that mate... i needed that laugh today...
AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHH!!!!!!!!!
16k with greater vorpal means:
11,6k without vorpal
13k with lesser vorpal
14,5k with normal vorpal
Please check what the 11,6k alternative cost on Dragon since that is pretty close to 50% of my HP.
Oh, nm... the 11,6k alternative was free of charge.
"Yep, cause everyone has that. Nerf the entire class!!11111!"
Ill refer you to this post.
So is the shift-key (free of charge).
I regularly get 10k+ crits with Chill Strike and I'm running a Lesser Holy Avenger. Guess they should nerf that too. How about Ice Knife or maybe the huge debuff from Ray in Mastery? Or how about they fact that I can sit on a pillar or bridge and do all of that with near impunity. :O I guess other classes can hit hard too. What was your point again?
If you get into the 40' radius of a Rogue you are going to take damage. How much depends on what abilities they are running and your ability to figure it out and counter.
My TR heals very well, but that is because he stacks lifesteal. There are some builds that stack blue regen items like the pre-nerf Seal of the Executioner, and those are fantastic for staying alive while running away. With a DPS CW who doesn't carry any real CC running away when out of stealth is the best way to go, so that likely looks like healing.
Well, actually yes. My CW hits that regularly and has had much higher crits with Ice Knife - without a vorpal. My DC used to hit that with Hammer, until it was nerfed. My GF usually doesn't hit that high, but he can take just about anything so he gets there eventually.
In other cases they can stun me from stealth while removing more than 50% of my life and if they have fast ping I can’t do anything about it before next Impact shot hits.
Yes, yes, I know it’s hard to take in at once. Most people here on the forum can’t grasp the concept of being killed from stealth. But it’s true, trust me!
And about the shift key. Do you think I sit and watch?
If a Rogue is killing you before you see them chances are you were already half-dead. If not, then you need to work on your situational awareness. Rogues are visible in stealth at close range. You can also hear Rogue abilities activate while they are nearby (Lurkers in particular). Your lack of awareness is not justification for a nerf.
Once again, your story changes. Now it's not a one-shot but getting taken to ~50% and then not dodging effectively due to lag. Your latency is not justification for a nerf.
What I think happens is that you are getting attacked by other enemies and the Rogue finishes you off in an ambush. Rogues are good at that. However, if that is the case, you weren't soloed by a Rogue were you? Getting focused is not justification for a nerf.
There's nothing hard to understand about stealth. When a Rogue is in stealth, it has the upper hand. When it's out of stealth, it's very VERY vulnerable. Good teams know this and kill them when they can see them. The fact that they can land a hard hit (that's ONE hard hit) from stealth doesn't make the class broken no matter how much you wish it. You just seem to struggle dealing with stealth classes. From what I've read of your other posts, GWF and GF struggle to deal with you. By your thinking GWF and GF must need a buff because you kill them most of the time.
Regarding shift - no, I think you use it at the wrong time. Use shift to dodge attacks, not extend. I also think that you are positioning yourself too far from allies, which makes you an easy ambush target.
If we go based on old school fantasy "rules", a wizard shouldn't stand a chance to a rogue. They should be dead most of the time. But when a GWF and a TR are toe to toe, the GWF should tear him apart. Pure melee DPS is the typical fantasy counter for rogues. That just isn't always the case. In Neverwinter, a GWF CAN tear a rogue apart, played properly by a skilled GWF. However, I think that's the problem. The GWF has to be on a much higher level than the rogue. Equally skilled and geared, the TR will win and I don't think that should be the case.
I think most of the complaints are just typical PvP novices whining for a nerf because they run around like crazy people, spamming powers and wondering why they lose every time. However, there is something wrong that gives TR's a slight edge that they really shouldn't have.
As a side note, any GF complaining about TRs... seriously, learn your class. You have no excuse and TRs should be the least of your worries.
Right, and you have skills that allow you to hit invisible attackers with AoE's. As a CW, you should be able to damage them in stealth and unless they have Tactics slotted as a passive and/or have Lurker's Assault up that will suck their stealth right away. If they're massively outgearing you with BiS kit including rank 10's and a perfect vorpal they may be able to one-shot you (assuming you don't have Shield active or any defense that their ArPen doesn't shred), but as soon as they hit you why don't you move and hit back with an AoE? The most damaging TR skills will break stealth unless they are using Lurker's Assault.
Thanks abacuser for making yourself look like more of a fool. Your own thread showed you did not know how to play and were crying instead of learning. Spreading lies and trying to get a class nerfed simply because you are biased against them is pathetic.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Just wait every class will be nerfed again. It will be fun watching people from every class cry even more when every class is destroyed because of cry babies. Mwahaha.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
That didn't work so well if you're knocked off your feet, then you're easy prey for a guy with a dagger or a club.
Given the way that any class can stack defense (obviously easier for some than for others) there are multiple factors involved. For those who want more realism in their fantasy games, that defense value can be dodging or simply taking it on a breastplate - which does get damaged when it takes a hard hit.
Since a GWF wears scale and a cleric wears mail, they're actually quite vulnerable to being stabbed with daggers and less vulnerable to being cut with a longsword.
There's a reason gwf's have "come get some" it's your best friend against them fkin rogues. lol Many a time I've encountered a perm stealth or a rogue that like to hide and like to throw daggers and run, just pop come get some, this will ALWAYS reveal them> drag them in and make them prone then a quick flourish + ibs and another dead roach. Your welcome.:)
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
Can u see a pattern here? First it was shocking execution,then it was duelist, then it was L.a., then now you're complaining about ITC.
Sheesh. i feel sorry for you, WHAT is gonna save you from realising YOURE LOUSY when there is nothing left to nerf of other classes?
Anyways....now that unstoppable is fixed and sent regen gwf is back to being a *must need minimum 3 players to kill* class, i'll chill. I understand it will take awhile for some of these "special" children to realise they're losing a match cos they need to send 3 ppl to their home base to spend about 3 minutes to kill ONE GUY, and the result is the other 4 enemies FACEROLL the remaining 2 left out there...BUT it will be realised...and the heat will go to the appropriate place.
I predicted this to happen even when the nerfs were only on the test shard. Whiners will continue to whine even when there is nothing to whine about at all. What is funny is when a whiner puts a video up showing the game is not unbalanced and yet the whiner claims it is. Just hilarious to be honest.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
L2P
Now that CoS has only 8 knifes, you as a GWF;will that rly hurt you? A TR who has the same GS with you can only take away 10%-15% of your HP with only 8 knifes. "I sprint away but he can still throw knives." TR can no longer throw daggers while jumping(In case you don't know), if he throws dagger while you're sprinting away from him, you'll definitely be able to escape for he can't move while throwing knifes.
You dealing with TR
I suggest that you use unstoppable then only use your At-will(Gives u more atk speed with Unst.)TR won't be able to exchange blows with you when a GWF is immune with daze. When he dodge, immediately sprint where the direction of roll is going, then CC him right after the dodge. If this fails, that means the TR dodge away again from you, but the consequence of doing this is huge for them(Rogues can only dodge 2 consecutive times). Why? he have to wait for a while to get his stamina back to dodge again and you've enough time to sprint towards him and tear him apart.
There was a guy who exaggerated that TR always succeeds on escaping even if there are 3 players chasing him. I gave him a tip on how to chase the TR if you're 2 or more players(1 Player isn't that enough to chase a TR down, but CWs sometimes can). With ITC and 2 dodge, They would probably be able to escape most of the time if you're the only one chasing him, BUT if you're 2; the other one(range)can attack the TR to prevent it from using mount, then the other one which is you(GWF) can use your mount and chase him. The moment he uses CoS, his movement will stop, you must simply unmount(press 6) before u get hit 3 or more times(simply be alert when facing a TR at all times) Since his movement stopped, your range ally can hit him more or CC him so he won't be able to use mount, this makes u close to the TR. Simply repeat the steps to get closer to him, it doesn't take long to chase him down.
If you're the only one chasing the TR with ITC, it's barely possible to chase him down if you're a GWF. Is that your reason why TR is OP? From your reply thread, I believe this is the most possible reason why a TR is OP for you.
This is indeed the sad reality in MMOs, many ppl are unskilled or not experience enough in gaming, yet they confidently post their whines here on forums because they know that he's not the only one who thinks like that.
There are so many reply threads here that I wanted to reply on how to teach them in dealing with their problem. Doing that would srsly waste a lot of time, and I am not willing to be a teacher, for u must learn on how to learn it yourself. It only requires logical thinking and knowledge about the class to learn how to counter your weaknesses against them. Be open minded, but the majority's opinion is not always true, for the majority in this game are the casual gamers who thinks that when there are many ppl who thinks the same as them, they thought they are correct and being narrow minded and close to new ideas.