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***Battlefield Skulker set SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER than Swashbuckling for PVE***
corpsemaker86
Member Posts: 148 Bounty Hunter
here are the stats:
Skulker gives
+1,116 armor pen
+1,792 hp
+126 movement
+405 life steal
Swash gives
+898 recovery (1,912 w bonus)
1,271 power (2,295 w bonus)
With skulker im convinced you will do more damage in pve because of the 4 piece set bonus. 25% longer stealth +5% more damage while stealthed. This stacks with cunning stalker (20% more ap regen while stealthed) as well as brutal backstab (25% more crit severity while in stealth)
this means I will be doing 12.5% more damage based on crit severity (assuming 50% crit) for much longer. additionally I will be getting the 5% damage bonus from stealth AS WELL AS 25% longer COMBAT ADVANTAGE
You must consider what your actually getting from all that recovery from swashbuckling. The AP regen will give u what like 4-8% more AP regen? that's countered by cunning stalker. and then your encounter powers will be available a few percent faster. Well, guess what? one of your encounter powers that are always up is shadow strike; and u will be needing to use it less anyways. that's 1/3rd of your encounters right there.
Finally, the Armor Pen is much better than the Power. Reason being that ArP gear and enchants are much more expensive than power gear and enchants. You can plan your gear accordingly and pay less $$
and don't forget your doing 5% more damage while stealthed by default for the entire duration of stealth. all of this equates to much more damage being done
so not only is it better but its SIGNIFICANTLY better for both pvp and pve. thoughts?
Skulker gives
+1,116 armor pen
+1,792 hp
+126 movement
+405 life steal
Swash gives
+898 recovery (1,912 w bonus)
1,271 power (2,295 w bonus)
With skulker im convinced you will do more damage in pve because of the 4 piece set bonus. 25% longer stealth +5% more damage while stealthed. This stacks with cunning stalker (20% more ap regen while stealthed) as well as brutal backstab (25% more crit severity while in stealth)
this means I will be doing 12.5% more damage based on crit severity (assuming 50% crit) for much longer. additionally I will be getting the 5% damage bonus from stealth AS WELL AS 25% longer COMBAT ADVANTAGE
You must consider what your actually getting from all that recovery from swashbuckling. The AP regen will give u what like 4-8% more AP regen? that's countered by cunning stalker. and then your encounter powers will be available a few percent faster. Well, guess what? one of your encounter powers that are always up is shadow strike; and u will be needing to use it less anyways. that's 1/3rd of your encounters right there.
Finally, the Armor Pen is much better than the Power. Reason being that ArP gear and enchants are much more expensive than power gear and enchants. You can plan your gear accordingly and pay less $$
and don't forget your doing 5% more damage while stealthed by default for the entire duration of stealth. all of this equates to much more damage being done
so not only is it better but its SIGNIFICANTLY better for both pvp and pve. thoughts?
Post edited by corpsemaker86 on
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So if u do not possess a set yet, good luck farming GG or be prepared to pay ridiculous prices for the few remaining BoE pieces on the AH.
Swashbuckling Set gives:
1271 power
1271 critical
1024 recovery
644 def
574 life steal
+1014 power bonus
+1014 recovery bonus
Swash is better
.........
Your post doesn't even make sense and I have no clue why u posted the stats I already did the + and - of each set. read my post again and try to comprehend what im saying
Swashbuckling only gives power and recovery advantage
skulker ArP is better than power
Recovery is insignificant since Skulker makes more use of cunning stalker
Skulker is better because of crit severity bonus, combat advantage bonus, and 5% damage bonus while in stealth
understand?
It's really nice to have longer stealth, thus the CA bonus, cunning stalker, brutal backstab, etc. But you have to figure in that you're only getting 25% more of each of these bonuses.
Another thing to consider is the lifesteal 2 piece bonus. While I like lifesteal, it doesn't help your damage any. With my current loadout, wearing the Skulker's set and dismissing my stone, I have 0 recovery. 0. Not too hot.
Anyway, I think the Skulker's set is viable. I would just like to see someone smarter than I am actually figure out some numbers or do some damage logging (which won't work on the practice dummies since they don't have armor).
remember that your doing 5% more damage during stealth as part of the set bonus and that's the entire duration of stealth, (not just the 25% bonus duration). Also recovery enchants are very cheap compared to dark enchants!!! keep that in mind. Even with both my stone as well as swash set I only get 14% quicker ap regen from recovery. Cunning stalker will make up for a lot of this. Also, one thing I noticed is recovery enchants are dirt cheap for companions. u can build a lvl 8 for dirt cheap and put it on your stone. that's 220 recovery right that
What encounters do u need tho? maybe if you want to smoke bomb or something... I end up using dazing strike (if I use at all) at the end of my stealth bar and lashing blade seems to never be available anyways. I guess blitz maybe is the only one
and shadow strike you can use from stealth.
guess encounters are not that important with DF and the high damage encounters should be used at the very end of stealth
Im open to the idea of both but I want to know exactly why/how swash is better.
I mean I have both sets so its no biggie but I would like to see logs done on each
with almost 1700 recovery I only get 14% quicker ap regen. with the bonus active it goes to about 20%
Skulker takes me down to 5% but I can just as easily add nearly 440 recovery since I don't need as much ArP (so lets say 9%) and the bonus to stealth adds (assuming in stealth for 60% of the time in battle) another 3% the difference between the two sets is an average of 8% ap regen
do you guys really think 8% ap regen is better than 5% more damage while stealthed, 25% more combat advantage, and the extra crit severity for 25% longer?
the only way swash can be better is
1) I am underestimating the significance of the extra 1k power from set bonus
2) u spend little time fighting bosses while stealthed and more time dodging out of red spots
I think if you like to both pvp and pve and only want to invest the $ into one set your better off with skulkers
- Frozen Heart: Skulker > Swash when soloing; Swash > Skulker when all the party is focusing the boss and I'm in charge of spamming Wicked Reminder.
- Spellplauge: same as above. I'm soloing this most of the times.
- Karrundax: no big differences but I still prefer Swash since Impossible to Catch and Smoke Bomb spamming greatly helps during the transition phases. Sometimes I switch sets from adds to boss fights but most of the times I'm too lazy and it doesn't make any big difference.
- Temple of Spider: N/A
- Castle Never: Skulker > Swash
- Malabog's Castle: Swash > Skulker since I'm almost always out of stealth. I only use stealth in order to have a 100% crit strike when Valindra comes into battle.
Malabog's and Castle Never trash pulls: Swash > Skulker since I use to spam Smoke Bomb and Dazing Strike right after Singularity.
This pretty much nailed it honestly,
I have almsot 5k power, over 2600 crit (which puts me over 50%), and 2400 armor pen with 2pc master 2pc shadewalker. I am capped in pve on just my GEAR for ARP, I dont need more crit for obvious reasons, so the ONLY stat that is worth getting anymore for me is power.
Each 220 power I get drastically increases my damage since its linear while skulkers set will get you alot of arp, but then once your in high dim return range like I already am, another 220 arp is not worth much.
You can always go skulkers and throw some radiante enchants in there, but again the damage boost from power is insane once you get to high lvl gear.
If you dont have a big bankroll, probably skulkers will be easier and the added stealth is great, but when you run 1 shot lashing setup for pvp, you want the 15% damage bonus on first attack in combat (which adds a couple thousand damagei ncrease on a lashing crit) which means you dont need the 25% more stealth.
You also have encounters and daily to refresh this more and when played properly, you dont need the added stealth. It is nice for suvivability purposes, but its much tougher to 1 shot lashing...
That said, its not a bad set and im suprised its so expensive considering how easy it is to get GG coins...
Ah well
-Desstzo
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Yes this is why I said if you dont have the bankroll, because min/maxing takes significantly more AD and you can get ROUGHLY the same things with skulkers.
But also dont discount the bonuses DO add up, When you go Skulkers you get an additional 1100 (roughly) arp? Well even if you stack arp rings/neck/belt your still probably gonna get better bang using 2-3 R7+ Dark enchants meaning you have (for an apples to apples) about 4-5 r7+ Radiants giving you 740-1000 power...
Well with the 2 pc 2pc set your BONUS gives you that much power, then the set itself gives you an additional like 1200... so basically your losing 1200 power for 25% more stealth and 5% damage. Is it THAT big a deal? Prob not, however again for min/max and the 1 shot capability... it DOES make a big difference.
Right, but how much power do you need to get that same 5% increase? Power scales the best because it doesnt have dim returns. Like I said, with an additional 1200 power, that is going to be >5% increase in damage
Ah well
-Desstzo
25 power = 1 BASE damage your numbers are using total crit damage including severity (which most builds give even more while stealthed.
And the reason most lashings crit over 10k is because of all that critseverity
even if you would cut them down to a third (equivalent of 200% crit severity), you would need more then 4k extra power to make up for the 5% less damage
i mean, yeah, my math was wrong due to the crit severity i didnt take into account but the point is still valid
Ah well
-Desstzo
I dont get it then, how can u be over 50% crit with 2600 crit? that crit rating is unbuffed and u have the stone buffing it further? I have like over 3100 with 25 dex and havent even hit 50% yet.
i must be doing something wrong then.
Yeah, I don't get that either.
Critical Chance = Base + Weapon Mastery + DEX (campfire) + Gear + Critical Teamwork = 5 + 3 + 17 + 16 + 5 = 46%.
So, where is the missing 3-4% come from? Is Critical Teamwork not as described and provides 8% instead of 5%?
how did u calculate that? still a nub and havent found the math info yet.
i get the base is 5 + feats and passives
dex max is 16 so that one extra is from a campfire bonus i guess.
but where can i find a table that tells me crit rating to crit chance values?
I use this: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj
It is very accurate.
I also just got the boon of +250 crit (so 2830 now) but that only inc my crit from 48.8% - 49.8%. So still pretty dang close.
Been thinking about dropping 1 R8 dark and grabbing a R9 radiant for more power as well... its a tough trade there though as the 220 arp really increases damage alot.
@3400 power: 5683-6711
@4781 power: 5947-6975
So eventhough its not a HUGE damage boost, ~1300 power = 264 average damage increase on base damage of lashing. I dont know if the 5% damage boost counts from the tooltip or where it gets added, but it COULD potentially be more.
In 10 lashings with higher power my lowest lashing was 20.9k on a dummy. With 1000 less power it dropped to 18.9 so a 2k difference in the LOWEST number out of 10 lashings. I dont have 4 pc skulkers but could test it out if I had more AD.
Like I said before I think if you DONT have the AD for Darks, go with skulkers for the 5% damage and you can always add power after and the 25% more stealth isnt bad at all...
When you do the math, the 2pc 2pc set = 2067 more power than skulkers but skulkers gives 1116 arp more.
Which (for me) is 5 dark 8 enchants.
So swapping 5 radiant will give you 1100 power meaning that you then have the same stats as me, but with about 1000 less power but 5% more damage from stealth. You can then pick the remaining 2 slots for whatever you like arp or power.
You then have to basically ask is when you start getting over 2500 arp dim returns hit hard so what do you stack?
For me, I liked stacking power and figure that no other combo will get you those same stats. I could go with skulkers but have 1000 less power (or possibly even less) for a 5% boost and a little more stealth?
Also the increase damage from power works with other abilities outside of stealth as well, and not to mention depending on your feats, you wont want to continually attack while stealth but use that advantage to lashing.
Not sure if its worth it honestly...
Not to mention in PVE, power will outdo skulkers by quite a bit.
So its seems skulkers is optimized for PVP but the 2pc 2pc is overall going to output slightly more damage, especially out of stealth when you lose that 5% damage bonus.
did u guys think about using 2 pieces from the new fey set, it also has power bonus and the stats are actually alittle bit higher than the standard t2s.
thx man guess the value in the left would be the crit chance.. which looks it caps at 21 cc at 5000 crit, so max cc should be 54. am i reading it right?
Looks like 25% to me. Each line = 5%
Also looks like ARP doesnt have as bad of Dim returns as I thought, Ill have to run some more numbers!
whish it was that coz i chose momentum over critical teamwork (can stack cc but not severity on gear was my thought process) coz 25 is just the ammount i need to hit 50% cc, but im pretty sure the green line hits 21cc at 5k crit(mouse scroll to make it bigger).