Lockbox Key Addiction

usernumber999

It's disappointing to see peoples obsession with keys and how the game company feeds this behavior and capitalizes on it (and glamorizes it by the on screen messages of winners).

I think they should be removed from the game, or at the very least, the odds of getting an item should be clearly stated (like they are at a casino). They should also be bound to player when purchased, as they have now become a form of currency that takes advantage of uninformed new (and more then a few old) players.

And no, I have never opened a box.

abell39

Some of us don't mind trading an expensive profession item we somehow obtain but will never use for 3 keys that might give us something useful and nifty at best or something to sell at worst. Please don't make them bound.

usernumber999

what i said applies to all the gambling boxes that the game company sells - profession, eapons crate, etc. The odds should be clearly stated. Its deceptive practice not to, and takes advantage of people. I;m fine with the contents of the boxes to not be bound. Your expensive profession item is already something to sell. Sell it and buy the item you want with it, or sell it and buy a key with ad/zen exchange if you want a key so badly. Keys shouldn't serve as a form of currency or addictive behavior.

xabersedge

Your soap box seems to be broken there.

It's not deceptive at all. You are basically scratching a cheap lotto ticket. The one thing you fail to note is accountability. Every single human is accountable for there choices, not the company that puts out a product. As far as 'addictive behavior' that is simply a cop out, an excuse, used by people who don't want to say no. You can say no, you can simply quit the game and be done with all of it.

The point is, and please let this soak in, NO ONE FORCES YOU TO USE THESE SERVICES IN ANY MANNER. You choose to play the game, you choose to pay for services and items, you choose to whine about it because you don't feel it is worth it. Well plenty of us do put in the money in because it is fun and worth it us. That is OUR choice.

Accountability, potent stuff.

cgta1967

I dont know how bad it is here...but over in STO, people have spent literally hundreds and hundreds of dollars seeking the ever so elusive starship drops that are estimated at well under 0.5% chance to get.

it's enabling and taking advantage of the gambling addicted personalities for sure.

digesthisickness

Honestly, it is scary. Law on the side of the games or not, gambling is extremely addicting and kids play these. And, yeah, before someone blames the parents, I'm not saying they shouldn't be more careful, I'm saying sadly, many aren't or just aren't aware, and I have wondered how many kids it messes with.

It's been going on for years though, and while I'm not saying that makes it okay, I'm saying the businesses have figured out exactly how to do things like that and not get into trouble with it. Still...

xabersedge

Some things have to be harder to get. Consider the in-game economy. If everyone has best of the best, then there is nothing to strive for, no one will buy because everyone has it, the market floods and the money stops. There are also stats to consider, and individuality within the player base. From a gameplay point of view it adds that feeling of achievement. From a real world perspective, yes, it is basically a money farm. Which brings me back to the main point. . .CHOICE. No one forces you. You make the choice and you spend the money so there is only one person to blame if you feel bad about it. Come to grips with that and you might not feel so bad ;p

knightfalz

cgta1967 wrote: »

I dont know how bad it is here...but over in STO, people have spent literally hundreds and hundreds of dollars seeking the ever so elusive starship drops that are estimated at well under 0.5% chance to get.

it's enabling and taking advantage of the gambling addicted personalities for sure.

It's not taking advantage of or enabling anyone. That some people can't control their behaviour is hardly the fault of those that provide a chance based product or service. If the seller of a product had to take responsibility for the nature of the purchaser of it, nothing could be sold any more, because every example of poor self-control is an addiction these days, rather than a lack of personal responsibility or self-restraint by some individuals.

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metaplexus

usernumber999 wrote: »

The odds should be clearly stated. Its deceptive practice not to, and takes advantage of people.

Welcome to life.

chrispybrown

It's gambling, plain and simple. I've opened about 30ish lockboxes when the game first started but haven't bothered since then after taking in to account the cost/benefit. My main goal was to get a nightmare, but when I spent enough to buy one in AH (and then some) I just chalked it up to being permanently cursed and instead saved up to buy a mount. I haven't spent any "actual" money yet, but I have spent a a lot of time gaining the resources needed. Telling people the odds only discourages them, imo. I was encouraged by my friend when he got a nightmare on his 5th box and thought I would be just as lucky. Foolish me.

k4pnkrunch

As a player who has opened 700+ lockboxes without spending a cent, I'd say this game has it nailed with the AD to Zen conversion. If you play all the game has to offer, then you won't have to spend any money, an option that is lacking in most other F2P MMOs.

xabersedge

so. . . .you're butthurt. Yeah, that happens. But to truly call it gambling requires that something be lost. You always get something in the box no matter. You are never left with just nothing. You didn't get what you wanted, poor baby, keep trying, I haven't gotten the mount either but I still use everything that comes out of those boxes, even if some of it gets traded/sold off. There is no loss, just a whiner who didn't get exactly what he wanted. Do what I did, I made the CHOICE to buy another mount. I also still CHOOSE to keep buying keys and hammer away at those lockboxes. You played the game and lost, boo hoo, better luck next time.

ironmako

I used to be the same in STO. It Is their money at the end of the day. It is an exploit, but that's what most businesses are about nowadays, selling stuff we don't need.

I think it only abuses/takes advantage of stupid people. They would be the same people who go into a casino thinking that they are about to win big. Those who use the lockbox keys wisely, will be the same ones who go into a casino with money they are prepared to lose.

carletto75

k4pnkrunch wrote: »

As a player who has opened 700+ lockboxes without spending a cent, I'd say this game has it nailed with the AD to Zen conversion. If you play all the game has to offer, then you won't have to spend any money, an option that is lacking in most other F2P MMOs.

How you get all this AD? Pls explain...

goddessunique

xabersedge wrote: »

Some things have to be harder to get. Consider the in-game economy. If everyone has best of the best, then there is nothing to strive for, no one will buy because everyone has it, the market floods and the money stops. There are also stats to consider, and individuality within the player base. From a gameplay point of view it adds that feeling of achievement. From a real world perspective, yes, it is basically a money farm. Which brings me back to the main point. . .CHOICE. No one forces you. You make the choice and you spend the money so there is only one person to blame if you feel bad about it. Come to grips with that and you might not feel so bad ;p

Umm you do realize gambling addiction is an mental illness right? So saying someone has a choice when the game makes gambling so easy is stupid. It's like putting people with OCD in a room full of light switches and hand soap dispensers and wonder why they can't stop turning on and off the light and constantly washing hands and saying they can stop or have a choice. I know a girl with this and she had to have EVERYTHING neat and in order and if you moved something, she would spend the whole next hour rearranging everything.
And I know another person that play this game he said he couldn't stop until he spent every dime he had on lockboxes, or he said he only stopped because he spent all his money. He said he lost count after 300 boxes and this is sad.

k4pnkrunch

It's actually really easy to open thatany lockboxes. In over 50% of the cases of buying 10 keys I've been able to make back 90% or more by selling everything I got from them. People forget the tarmalune bars and how you can get a coalescent ward with 200 of them. If you're clever, you can set yourself up to pretty much open lockboxes continuously. When I open them I sometimes go through 100 at a time in this manner, usually only selling one or two of my non-lockbox-obtained items.

noroblad

you sound so proud of never having opened a box. What is so taboo about buying something that supports the game developers and having some fun? I have seen people who spend more per month on their cell phones (tens of dollars, some over 50 a month!) that I do on zen. Others spend it on cable TV (again, over more than $20 a month for many!). They are proud of their "apps" (whatever that is) which nickel & dime them at $5 here and $1 there. They spend $50 to go to a movie with a date. But if I spend $30 on zen once a month, that makes me a wasteful moron who throws money away. I don't get it.

And that is aside from the sell, recover diamonds, convert to zen, get more keys perpetual motion machine. The high prices for several of the rewards keep the losses small.

However its all about what you want. Out of probably 500 boxes, I have 1 horse, about 8 birds, 4 or 5 heroes (some of those from putting blue guys in a blender), millions of AD worth of enchantments, 7 green ioun stone pets, and a ton of other stuff. All of which entertained me more than anything on cable tv (which I do not have).

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stercogburn

xabersedge wrote: »

Your soap box seems to be broken there.

It's not deceptive at all. You are basically scratching a cheap lotto ticket. The one thing you fail to note is accountability. Every single human is accountable for there choices, not the company that puts out a product. As far as 'addictive behavior' that is simply a cop out, an excuse, used by people who don't want to say no. You can say no, you can simply quit the game and be done with all of it.

The point is, and please let this soak in, NO ONE FORCES YOU TO USE THESE SERVICES IN ANY MANNER. You choose to play the game, you choose to pay for services and items, you choose to whine about it because you don't feel it is worth it. Well plenty of us do put in the money in because it is fun and worth it us. That is OUR choice.

Accountability, potent stuff.

Some years ago, Asian based MMOs discovered they could earn more money by encouraging gambling addiction, as people are more likely to pay up for a chance to win something rather than a guarantee of receiving something. Its a business model based on encouraging/enabling addiction.

cgta1967 wrote: »

it's enabling and taking advantage of the gambling addicted personalities for sure.

This.

I paid for a Founder's Pack and bought a little zen since launch. I don't begrudge them money for a game I'm playing. However Cryptic will never earn a penny from me for a gambling related business model and I will not buy lockbox keys under any circumstances. I personally think its a very scummy way to do business.

xabersedge

You keep calling it gambling but there is no loss, there is no zero effect. You guys are simply displacing blame because your not happy with it. It's the same as saying [cigarette company] killed him or [fast food] made me fat. You buy/earn keys, use said keys and ALWAYS GET SOMETHING. There is no gamble only return. And choice is still the biggest factor, nobody shoves a death stick in your mouth, you do. Nobody puts a fork in your fat hand, you do. Nobody takes money out of your wallet and spends it, YOU DO. Don't blame a company because you are either too weak or to dumb to make your own decisions.

spanky2014

xabersedge wrote: »

You keep calling it gambling but there is no loss, there is no zero effect. You guys are simply displacing blame because your not happy with it. It's the same as saying [cigarette company] killed him or [fast food] made me fat. You buy/earn keys, use said keys and ALWAYS GET SOMETHING. There is no gamble only return. And choice is still the biggest factor, nobody shoves a death stick in your mouth, you do. Nobody puts a fork in your fat hand, you do. Nobody takes money out of your wallet and spends it, YOU DO. Don't blame a company because you are either too weak or to dumb to make your own decisions.

If opening a lockboxes with keys purchased with money is not gambling then I don't know what is. I have opened maybe 300 lockboxes and I DO know it is gambling. When I'm bored I will gamble.

The OP is stating that odds need to be given as this is gambling. Obviously data "suggests" that Nightmare drops are 1%. I believe I got 2 nightmare opening 200+ lock boxes. Chances could be as low as 0.5%, doubt it would be any lower than this. But I think chances need to be stated!!!

Someone stated that you given bars which you can trade for wards and the smart player should recoup 90% of the cost. This is what casinos do to keep gamblers playing. They give them "credit" for gambling so their losses don't seem so much. I don't know about you but my rate of return on the lock boxes is closer to 50%.

dirtyhook

xabersedge wrote: »

You keep calling it gambling but there is no loss, there is no zero effect. You guys are simply displacing blame because your not happy with it. It's the same as saying [cigarette company] killed him or [fast food] made me fat. You buy/earn keys, use said keys and ALWAYS GET SOMETHING. There is no gamble only return. And choice is still the biggest factor, nobody shoves a death stick in your mouth, you do. Nobody puts a fork in your fat hand, you do. Nobody takes money out of your wallet and spends it, YOU DO. Don't blame a company because you are either too weak or to dumb to make your own decisions.

You have a pretty ignorant view. I wish I knew you in real life. I would trade you $5 dollar bills for hundreds every day and just tell you 'look you are getting something right? so you're not losing anything.'.
Try to understand that even with virtual items there is a value associated with them. If you don't think so then why don't you trade your T2 equipment for white equipment? Why don't you trade keys for a few healing potions? Why do you buy anything with AD if there is no value?

knightfalz

goddessunique wrote: »

Umm you do realize gambling addiction is an mental illness right?

An actual gambling addiction is. However, people are far too quick to apply the addiction label these days, so it is often misapplied to or by individuals that don't have addictions but can't be bothered to be responsible. It's such a popular practice these days that claims of addiction are often used as a 'get out of personal responsibility free' card.

OCD relates more to compulsion rather than addiction.

Could the person have stopped before spending all his money on lockboxes? It's hard to say whether his claim is actually true or an excuse for his actions without knowing the person. You may be in a position to judge that, depending how well you know him, but since I do not I couldn't say one way or the other. I can say that I don't accept claims of addiction simply because they are made, due to the increasingly popular improper use of the term I mentioned above.

xabersedge

gambling implies that there will be either win or loss. There is no loss, you always get something. It's like a bubble toy dispenser, you might not get the one you wanted but you still get something for your quarter. No loss, No gamble, just chance. And as far as mental issues, it all comes down to will power and weak minds. If you can't control yourself, it's as simply as that, YOU can't control yourself. If you are that weak will (or weak minded) then get out of the situation. If you can't do at least that then your weak minded can be nothing short of stupidity. Excuses all day, you're weak and making excuses and blaming other people for the choices YOU are making. bottom line, you are still never ever forced. You are never ever forced. Say it with me now, You are never ever forced.

noroblad

If you want to travel down the morality and addiction rabbit hole, you could just say the game itself feeds the so called gaming addiction, therefore they are bad people for making a game at all because someone out there somewhere could become addicted to the game at the expense of their job or family or something.

Sure, the lockboxes are a type of gambling. Kind of like a slot machine that takes $5 from you every pull and spits out 50 cents most of the time, and spews a big pile of cash once a year (usually to a disguised casino employee who knows when the machine is due to pay out within a few hundred pulls, or they were once gamed this way when the machines were mechanical). So what? Again, I compare it to people that spend 50 to 100 to more money on other forms of entertainment each month. This game is entertainment. Spending $20 or $50 or whatever on it once a month across 50+ hours of time enjoied is some of the cheapest entertainment going. Again, I spend less in a month on the game than many spend on a 2 hour movie. I claim my money went farther as far as entertainment goes.

knightfalz

dirtyhook wrote: »

Try to understand that even with virtual items there is a value associated with them.

You're quite right here. Each of the virtual items in a lock box will have a value associated to them by the one opening it, and these personal values will vary from person to person.

As such it is quite easy for someone to feel loss when opening a box if the item(s) contained within have less value from his personal point of view than the resources he expended to be able to open the box, even if he gets other things from the box that can be sold to make up the cost of opening the box.

Value judgments are personal judgments that are not always based with clockwork precision on perfect logic.

knightfalz

xabersedge wrote: »

There is no loss, you always get something.

This only applies if the individual is getting something of value to that individual.

stalesmoke

xabersedge wrote: »

You keep calling it gambling but there is no loss, there is no zero effect. You guys are simply displacing blame because your not happy with it. It's the same as saying [cigarette company] killed him or [fast food] made me fat.

Not that I care much, but as a comparison..Cigarette pack labels are required to say they are dangerous and somewhat what is in them and that its harmful, and in some placed depict graphic labels of what can happen if you use, and fast food companies are required to list their "nutritional values", casino's post odds and even cheap scratch off tickets give you "odds"

in the end, people are still responsible for their decisions. imo
but an "informed" decision

knightfalz

stalesmoke wrote: »

Not that I care much, but as a comparison..Cigarette pack labels are required to say they are dangerous and somewhat what is in them and that its harmful, and in some placed depict graphic labels of what can happen if you use, and fast food companies are required to list their "nutritional values", casino's post odds and even cheap scratch off tickets give you "odds"

in the end, people are still responsible for their decisions. imo
but an "informed" decision

Cigarettes include physically addictive substances which sets them apart from the other things you mention. Those addicted to substances often have skewed perceptions and needs, making logical choices about them difficult no matter how well informed the person is. Of course, this is more pronounced with substances that are more addictive.

slayorian

Xaber is spot on. Just because personal responsibility is out of style these days doesn't mean one should not practice it. If you feel that opening boxes isn't worth it, then don't do it. Simple. Case closed.