Control Wizards are suffering...

wisam187

Hello everyone,

I'd like to discuss some of the "fixes" that are gonna be applied on CWs in the next few days, along with the stuff that already bother me as a cw, which I'm rather not satisfied with, and I believe many will agree, so here it goes:

One thing bothers me that is already in CWs:

Entangling force: this is one awesome skill, that gets really pointless at some point in PvP, that the second I cast it on a target, target breaks free, making the skill really useless, and target doesn't receive it's damage, so what's up with that?

just wanted to put that there, if anyone has an explanation, please comment it below, if no, then I guess CW needs a bigger fixing list.


This is a quote from the list of fixes on CW that I really don't like, "Feat: Snap Freeze: This feat was previously offering too much bonus damage for a feat that was so easy to access. The overall damage boost from this feat has been reduced by 5% and it no longer affects Daily powers."

I mean, did the "Average" damage that CW deal bother anyone? for it to get nerfed?, and what do you mean "offering too much bonus damage"? is that 5% that makes a CW slightly happy about his damage, really did that huge difference? compared to other classes, and considering how much "AC" they have compared to a CW, I think not.

Snap freeze Feat, was intended to give that bonus damage, in the idea that all the skills are doing correctly calculated damage, but when they do this:"Conduit of Ice: This power no longer incorrectly benefits less from the Power stat than intended.", they decide to nerf the feat that gives it bonus damage, what's the point?


Alright, now for the thing that is really gonna get annoying, this: "Shield: Shield Release no longer incorrectly multiplies its Action Point gain for every target hit."
Shield: Shield Release no longer incorrectly builds a stack of Arcane Mastery for every target hit, resulting in situations where hitting 5 targets would both max the stacks while also instantly reducing its own cooldown.

That was the core of "Crowd control" in a CW, it really helped keeping mobs in control, giving other teammates a chance to breathe, and the cw a better chance to defend himself, considering how low his "AC" is, and his defense in overall, having that removed, I really don't think that CWs will stand a chance anymore against "Castle Never's" Ridiculous amount of mobs, or any other dungeon, having the mobs really can pack a punch, and sometimes, "one hit" a CW on the spot.
I know you might consider that as a "bug", or a "glitch" that people are using, or "abusing", but why take so much from a CW, and give it too little? sometimes it feels like magic is just way too underrated in some games, and can get ridiculous in some other, on how weak a magic user can become, thanks to nerfing his damage, and "Fixing" his shield; his only key to survival against the huge amount of mobs.

Please, reconsider, give magic a chance, if no, then I hope the other new "Paragon paths", other than SpellStorm Mage, wouldn't be as bad.

arcmoon99

I found out that if the person you cast control powers on has a high deflection and they deflect your control power, they instantly break free. TRs naturally have a high deflect and this makes them a really slippery class to control. It's like trying to fight a bar of soap.

Another way they break free of your control is with "Impossible to catch" this TR encounter is able to be in use even if you are disabling them. As it is intended to do so. GWFs can of course use unstoppable which makes them immune to everything pretty much lol. and GFs have their first Daily that makes them immune, I can't remember it's name.

chipster

arcmoon99 wrote: »

I found out that if they person you cast control powers on has a high deflection and they deflect your control power, they instantly break free. TRs naturally have a high deflect and this makes them a really slippery class to control. It's like trying to fight a bar of soap.

Another way they break free of your control is with "Impossible to catch" this TR encounter is able to be in use even if you are disabling them. As it is intended to do so. GWFs can of course use unstoppable which makes them immune to everything pretty much lol. and GFs have their first Daily that makes them immune, I can't remember it's name.

CW is consider the core of the group in a party combination for dungeons. Other class fare poorly and unwanted in CN. You should have something to be happy about...

arcmoon99

chipster wrote: »

CW is consider the core of the group in a party combination for dungeons. Other class fare poorly and unwanted in CN. You should have something to be happy about...

I'm not the one complaining. I got a a level 60 CW with a 10.7k GS and I went down the renegade build. I do massive damage in don't focus to much in control abilities. I destroy in PvP and tend to get first often even with TRs. In PvE it doesn't matter just as long as I can use Arcane Singularity and Repel.

degraafination

This is a L2P issue, especially for PVP. Without question a well-geared rogue is my biggest threat as a CW. 1-2 and you're down if they're speced right. Other classes tend not to be an issue. Even if I cannot kill them (Sent/Regen GWF and tanky/healy clerics), I can keep a point from them for a long time.

I'm a big fan of pointing people to Fruitloop's videos. He went Oppressor tree, and he rocks it.

Match 1: http://www.twitch.tv/honoraryorange/c/2729372
Match 2: http://www.twitch.tv/honoraryorange/c/2729365

No doubt the Shield hit is pretty lame, especially for CN/DDs.

tharsoniusvb

I actually like the shield nerf. I play a level 60 cw myself and the AP gain through shield pulse is rediculous. In some fight Singularity is up more often then my encounters and it's a daily. That just feels wrong somehow.
Sure, this change will make life harder e.g. in CN and I am afraid that the player base will react with taking even more CW's as the standard setup but i guess players will just have to adapt and find different ways to success then the perma singularity

wisam187

in my opinion, that is what made CWs unique in DDs and such, having that removed, will CWs be really able to keep up with all these hordes of mobs?

Answers to that question will differ, but then again, if they count that as a "bug" or somehting, what's up with the damage nerf?

diogene0

You don't need daily powers to maintain control, come on.

All of your issues comes from doing something wrong:
- GFs can block your attacks, so cast EF on a GF in his back. Rogues have a short immunity skill. Test them with shield before wasting EF.
- The changes to snap freeze will be so insignificant you won't even notice it. You don't even need that skill, unless you have a heavy debuff thaumaturge skill and use chilling cloud. The devs want damage increases to come from our gear and builds, not from a single class feature. What a big deal. If you're so worried about being #1 damage, get a better gear.
- shield as the "core of a CC build, really"? I only use shield to push things off edges. I don't even need to use singularity if the GF has a brain. It's also a good AoE skill since it has no target limit, but even if the AP bonus is nice, it's sill a very good skill after the patch.
- singularity is a great positioning tool, if your team is lousy, it's great. If yoy play with people who know what they are doing, someone else will draw mobs at the right location, and you will be able to use icy terrain + tabbed conduit of ice to do nice ice statues. Chill is the main CC mechanic. Singularity isn't.

It is imo a better choice to run with a GF or GWF (just to help you with mobs positionning) after the patch in pve, but that's up to you.

wisam187

First of all, thanks for replying.

diogene0 wrote: »

GFs can block your attacks, so cast EF on a GF in his back. Rogues have a short immunity skill. Test them with shield before wasting EF.

I know that, but I'm talking about for example, using EF on a GWF who isn't in his Unstoppable condition, the second I lift him up, he breaks free, which is really annoying at times.

diogene0 wrote: »

The changes to snap freeze will be so insignificant you won't even notice it. You don't even need that skill, unless you have a heavy debuff thaumaturge skill and use chilling cloud. The devs want damage increases to come from our gear and builds, not from a single class feature. What a big deal. If you're so worried about being #1 damage, get a better gear.

If it's so insignificant as you say, then why change it? that 5% makes a small difference on the long run, and no, I'm not aiming to be #1. I'm aiming to do decent damage with my Ice skills, specially my Ice Blade, that isn't gonna receive any benefit from Snap freeze anymore, is that 5% really bothersome?

jigles

i have a CW, but since its not my main i cant know how op they are or not.

One thing i dont understand is why every CW always telling they weak and everything since all i see in town is "LFM3 CW to Dungeon"... not 1.. not 2... sometimes e see people askin for 3.

If they are that weak why they the class most wanted on dungeons? i understand other classes make more DPS, although other classes that make huge DPS cant control shiznizz...

i just think this is a normal thing... diferent classes diferent jobs, some control, some dps, some tank, and some do company to other classes

I dont agree with any of the nerfs announced for Mod1 tho.. looking forward to check how everything will be

diogene0

wisam187 wrote: »

First of all, thanks for replying.


I know that, but I'm talking about for example, using EF on a GWF who isn't in his Unstoppable condition, the second I lift him up, he breaks free, which is really annoying at times.



If it's so insignificant as you say, then why change it? that 5% makes a small difference on the long run, and no, I'm not aiming to be #1. I'm aiming to do decent damage with my Ice skills, specially my Ice Blade, that isn't gonna receive any benefit from Snap freeze anymore, is that 5% really bothersome?

But that GWF can use unstoppable when he's stunned. Such skills are still available when they are stunned. Just keep in mind that they will get unstoppable as soon as they have taken enough damage.

5% on 20k ice knifes isn't much. 5% on 50-80k ice storm is quite a lot.

vorphied

One of my mains is a CW, and I'm not suffering.

Snap Freeze: Whatever. Wasn't getting the full benefit that often as it was due to constantly applying Chill. Will miss the extra 5% most for Ice Storm use in PvP.

Shield: I don't use it except for the last two bosses in CN. I'll be even less likely to use it for normal dungeon play since Sudden Storm is shaping up to be a useful PvE power now.

Eye of the Storm: I think I like it better now. While you don't get long strings of guaranteed crit, you do get great uptime on it.


CW damage is amazing as it is. It's the CWs who relied exclusively on Singularity who will have the hardest time adjusting. That being said, I will be curious to try Dracolich after patch without easy AP gain and quick-cycling Shields.

austing2013

"Boohoo, we can use Singularity to completely trivialize half the PVE content in the game but we are soooo weak!" "We are included in groups 2x more than any other class but we are sooo poor, help us!"

Forgive me If I don't shed any tears for CWs.