ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited August 2013
The unbound versions of set items, that drop only from bosses, not chests, will be worth farming outside DD hour. They'll skyrocket in price.
Running dungeons outside of DD hour will be profitable, while running dungeons inside the bonus hour will be far easier for obtaining gear you wear.
Why is it that farmers always assume that everybody else plays the game just to farm?
Play a game for fun?
Run dungeons for fun?
That's madness.
LOL
It's funny that you complain that the farmers are not taking another players perspective but you have done just the same. There is a HUGE number of players who find dungeon running completely boring and the ONLY reason they do it is to get AD. There would be NO incentive to run a dungeon if you couldn't make decent AD. Not talking 4k or 5k ad from a stupid NPC salvager. The game will die because there a majority of players who only run dungeons for AD. So all you stop-and-smell-the-roses type players are a very small minority.
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fathomfulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 207Bounty Hunter
I think the bottom line, though, is that ANY dungeon might start to lose its "fun" appeal after you run it 24,85,668,493,288 times. Sure, it's nice to stop and smell the roses your first time through, but the second time, the roses are going to look and smell the same. They won't change the third or forth time through, either. Eventually, you'll find yourself asking, "WHY am I running this again?"
Enter the Foundry, where (despite buggy and even non-existent rewards) the company had to put more restrictions on language filters to try and aggravate the authors into ragequitting because UGC is getting more attention than dev content (dramatization lolz). The Foundry really is the last hope, in my opinion.
I can see your point about many multiple times. I guess for me it doesnt come up because i no longer have the time for 6 hour marathon sessions several times a week. Just too much life going on. (not a dig on anybody, i wish i did have more time for games lol).
On average maybe 3 or 4 times a week i jump on to play and will run a dungeon or two, go do some gathering on nodes, or run a few pvp sessions. Sometimes i log in and just talk to guildies or level an alt.
I think most people that get bent out of shape are the obsessive MMO-aholics that want to pour 8 hours a day into a casual game then wonder why they feel unfulfilled. Been there done that.
I dont care anymore if i am missing the perfect ring. I will still have tons of fun even if i dont have that ring that will increase my 3 stats by +7. (hell at the end of the day i could whip out my card and buy a full BiS set with what amounts to 15 minutes of my real life work time.)
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derpaderpistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The unbound versions of set items, that drop only from bosses, not chests, will be worth farming outside DD hour. They'll skyrocket in price.
Running dungeons outside of DD hour will be profitable, while running dungeons inside the bonus hour will be far easier for obtaining gear you wear.
I like the new system.
If you're able to obtain the gear that you want in DD there will be no reason for people to buy the gear off the AH .
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
I mean it just feels backwards to refuse to play a game unless you get something for it.
I mean i dont think i would ever say "no not going to play cards with you unless its for money".
I would not ever tell my son "sorry not going to play catch with you unless there is something in it for me".
The people that dont enjoy playing and are only playing for things will gravitate to something else and the player base remaining will be much more dedicated and less toxic.
I would much rather run a dungeon with someone who wants to run the dungeon and have fun as opposed to someone who just wants to exploit their way to the end boss to get a piece of loot.
The enjoyment is in the journey not the destination lol!
These are just fatuous arguments. there is something in it for you besides just love of play. Your reward is joy in your sons face, his growth as a person that is the reward for being good at parenting. Once you play poker for money playing poker without money makes no sense. how often do you play tic-tac-toe probably not often, because the outcome is a foregone conclusion- tie unless someone screws up. there is no fun in that unless there is some legitimate reward. reward could be novelty, accomplishment, or compensation. the first few times i ran dds the novelty was great, the first few times i finished dd's the accomplishment was a great feeling, the 40th and up times i was going for gear to sell to equip my toon. still haven't finished gearing up thats why im pissed.
Originally Posted by ranncore
The unbound versions of set items, that drop only from bosses, not chests, will be worth farming outside DD hour. They'll skyrocket in price.
I hate farming. I hate having to run things on par over and over to get something.
I do like going to low level dungeon and getting gear for alts. I do like having the option to buy an item from a fellow player who had the time, I do not, to farm something.
You folks saying it is a good thing realize that it takes millions of AD to get enchants right? MILLIONS. Unless of course you want to play for 3 years for best enchants...at which time you will be about 5 modules behind and all that old gear you are sporting with those enchants are worth 10k to the salvager.
Rank 4 Enchants drop frequently in the new zone. If it does become harder to make AD after Module1 goes live then the economy will adjust. If current Rank 7s for something you want are 100k and people are never selling because nobody wants to pay top dollar when everyone makes <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for AD then the overall price of those higher Rank enchants will drop in price.
I wish a higher end currency that we desired rotated on a Daily Dungeon so we would go back and run that particular T1/T2 for it. Variety ftw
Q-What to do when DD chests become BoP?
A-What Im gonna do is that im gonna quit playing this game and I will search for another one from a company that has better ethics and cares about the player,not how much money they can squeze out from them
Maybe doing runs during DD for salvage? Yep, imo that's worth it, since most drops currently sell for less than the salvage reward. 10k for a T2 dungeon isn't that bad these days.
And you know what? It's more than you get from endgame instances in STO, and people keep playing this game. The new campaign system will also provide alternative ways to get (new) gear. And if you want enchantments, well, there are many ways to get them. Like legit dungeon runs. I got quite a lot of 7 and 8 since i don't skip content much.
Wards? Make mules.
Not seeing alternative ways to get what you want is a bit weird.
I'm a relative nobody who plays this game for character progression, which is the basis for pretty much every MMO around. If you consider that 90% of the Astral Diamonds in the economy come from maybe 5% of the population, I don't see prices "stabilizing" too quickly. The rich get richer, the poor buy zen. This game was the first free to play game that I never felt the need to pay real money to play. Apparently that was too good to be true.
I just take my time playing, run around exploring every area, take in the sights. I have 1 lvl 60 and the rest are between 25 and 47
Most players need a goal and "taking in the sights" does not earn you ad. I understand you might enjoy chilling out and only leveling toons but you are not the majority of players that are doing these runs for a little more Ad. (proof is in any zone chat durring dd event) Unless you have a deep wallet you should try to understand at least a little why players are upset. Downplaying legitimate complaints in forum posts is not fixing the problem nor is it doing anyone any good whatsoever. Please try to be constructive in forum posts and not laugh at them or make fun. your words (LOL another doom and gloom.) this is called trolling and is not welcomed in forum threads.
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maisaanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 166
edited August 2013
I brought over some chars to the preview server and salvaged all epic items, ranking from T1 to T2.5.
Min AD's you get is 1.000 AD's and max AD's you get is 10.000
This mean that items that currently is selling for 500.000 AD's will have a value of 10.000 AD
Have fun farming.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Here's what people are going to do during DD time:
Run the fastest T2 they can, which will most likely be Pirate King or Spider Queen.
Most likely they'll get 3-4 runs in, which may give them up to 30,000-40,000 rough AD.
Of course people will flock to CN and Malabog's, farming these extensively. Now that more people will be farming these, the prices of Ancients will fall as more supply comes in the market.
I brought over some chars to the preview server and salvaged all epic items, ranking from T1 to T2.5.
Min AD's you get is 1.000 AD's and max AD's you get is 10.000
This mean that items that currently is selling for 500.000 AD's will have a value of 10.000 AD
Have fun farming.
Most people weren't getting items worth 500k AD. Most people were getting items worth 2-4k on average, so in the end the Salvager may represent a net gain for them.
The people farming CN for those 500k items? They still have the advantage of farming CN for non-DD-chest items, which will rise in value because of the decrease in supply.
I can't say I'm thrilled about the loot changes in the new patch, but I can't see a lot of problems either. It seems like a mostly lateral change with respect to earning power.
T1 pvp items no sell(4-15k AD from a piece gone)
T2 GG items no sell (30-90k froma a piece gone)
Drake seal items gone (5-20k AD gone)
And on top of that DD gone.
So now only way to make AD is hitting the cap on the refine from rough diamonds (24k AD) which u already did from dailies/leadership
And raid 50 times to mb sth that will actually sell for some nice chunk of AD.
If it took a casual player 3 months to get full rank 7's in gear,get the armor/jewels he wants,get vorpal/soulforged,a companion and mb a mount now it will take almost 10 months.
and if he want go for more than rank 7 then gl.
They did not do this for the ''economy'' of the game but for make zen sales more.
If u wanted help the ''economy'' of the game then fix exploitable bugs in dungeons etc...
ppl can make 3 runs each DD only because they exploit/skip most part of dung ...
Also about rough astrals.....if u have 24k ~ each day then its not worth getting more.
If some1 asked me u want 5 million rough astrals or 10k Astral diamonds i would choose the 10k.So telling the salvage gonna help ur AD income and it will be nice i just laugh^^.
I think it will reduce, but it will be a good reduction.
I mean it just feels backwards to refuse to play a game unless you get something for it.
I mean i dont think i would ever say "no not going to play cards with you unless its for money".
I would not ever tell my son "sorry not going to play catch with you unless there is something in it for me".
The people that dont enjoy playing and are only playing for things will gravitate to something else and the player base remaining will be much more dedicated and less toxic.
I would much rather run a dungeon with someone who wants to run the dungeon and have fun as opposed to someone who just wants to exploit their way to the end boss to get a piece of loot.
The enjoyment is in the journey not the destination lol!
I understand where you are coming from. However, in MMOs and RPGs in general, there are economies built into the game. Those economies are a large part of the draw for some players. Lots of players are crafters or merchants and, yes, farmers. They represent a good large part of the player base. Already the number of instances throughout the game on Mindflayer are drastically reduced from where they were just a few weeks ago. It is much harder to find a group to do Dungeons with, even during Delves, than it was. After this change it may be nigh impossible. That means that all the hard work that the Devs did to create this content will largely go unplayed. I think this is a big mistake.
What is frustrating, is that the real issue is not BoE, the issue is that people are exploiting because the opportunity is there and do not want to kill "trash" mobs because there is no gain.
A better solution would have been to make the occasional rare item and enchantment drop happen by killing adds in the Dungeon. Another solution that was suggested is to make the quality of the end drop during delves be based on the percentage of Dungeon cleared. These type of changes would have reduced "speed-runs" and given incentive to people to actually do the Dungeon. Making things BoP reduces incentive to do Dungeons at all:(.
So now only way to make AD is hitting the cap on the refine from rough diamonds (24k AD) which u already did from dailies/leadership
The cap isn't trivially easy to hit right now. If you are hitting the cap now, then it's pretty easy to stop running dailies to make room for Salvage income. At worst, you gain ~2+ hours a day back; you could use that time to run non-DD dungeons for a chance at valuable loot.
Also about rough astrals.....if u have 24k ~ each day then its not worth getting more.
Absolutely correct. The keyword is "if."
If some1 asked me u want 5 million rough astrals or 10k Astral diamonds i would choose the 10k.So telling the salvage gonna help ur AD income and it will be nice i just laugh^^.
I'd take the 5 million, which would give me ~200 days worth of the refine limit for zero effort.
The cap isn't trivially easy to hit right now. If you are hitting the cap now, then it's pretty easy to stop running dailies to make room for Salvage income. At worst, you gain ~2+ hours a day back; you could use that time to run non-DD dungeons for a chance at valuable loot.
I have a character that is over the cap every day just from leadership and he is beginning to build a nice stockpile of useless rough astral diamonds. I guess you could call it my main, but all he does is leadership and pray right now because I am working on other alts. He did not "Quite" hit the cap until he hit lvl 20, but after that it was ridiculously easy to do it with some decent assets. It also is not hard to get the assets as you level leadership. One of my mules hit 500k AD about a month ago just from leadership and praying. She still isn't lvl 60 and only has 5 slots open. The cap is not that hard to hit at all.
If I start taking my main a few DD runs oer day I might as well just sell off all my leadership assets because they would do absolutely nothing for me at all. That makes no sense since they all cost someone money. If this change goes in place then EVERY profession will be useless (the rest already are). Then we will have a lot of pissed off people who were ripped off for all those professional asset packs they bought.
These are just fatuous arguments. there is something in it for you besides just love of play. Your reward is joy in your sons face, his growth as a person that is the reward for being good at parenting. Once you play poker for money playing poker without money makes no sense. how often do you play tic-tac-toe probably not often, because the outcome is a foregone conclusion- tie unless someone screws up. there is no fun in that unless there is some legitimate reward. reward could be novelty, accomplishment, or compensation. the first few times i ran dds the novelty was great, the first few times i finished dd's the accomplishment was a great feeling, the 40th and up times i was going for gear to sell to equip my toon. still haven't finished gearing up thats why im pissed.
That post does bring up the other side of the coin: To all of the people say "play for fun", you probably casually get
on here and there. Trust me that's OK, Im not knocking it. For the people who are on every day, the dungeons become
just an obstacle for attaining gear because you have played them 25 time or more each.
IMO a big problem was the lack of effort and creativity put into the dungeons. The graphics are awesome, but every
one has the exact same thing in combat: Difficulty is increased just by increasing the number of the adds. That itself
makes for a boring encounter.
I am really surprised they let the exploiting of dungeons continue (meaning not fixing the ways people are skipping
to the end and getting 4-5 in during DD).
I have a character that is over the cap every day just from leadership and he is beginning to build a nice stockpile of useless rough astral diamonds. I guess you could call it my main, but all he does is leadership and pray right now because I am working on other alts. He did not "Quite" hit the cap until he hit lvl 20, but after that it was ridiculously easy to do it with some decent assets. It also is not hard to get the assets as you level leadership. One of my mules hit 500k AD about a month ago just from leadership and praying. She still isn't lvl 60 and only has 5 slots open. The cap is not that hard to hit at all.
Easy and hard are subjective. In order to get something approaching an objective understanding of the effort required to do as you describe, we need more information. Here's the list of available Leadership missions at level 20:
How are you achieving the refine cap through leadership alone? Which tasks do you run? How many times per day do you refresh crafting tasks? How many Adventurers do you have, and what did they cost? For that matter, how long did it take you to level Leadership given all of the above?
I don't ask any of the above questions to be difficult, by the way; I'm just trying to establish some sort of reasonable standard here. It's clear that various people taking part in this debate have very different opinions about what constitutes trivial daily effort.
If u dont want to do dailies at all to hit the refine cap u will still need to get 2-3 T2 items to salvage.(mb more depending on piece)
t1 salvage for less and u will need more items.
During DD lets say u do 2 runs thats 2 pieces of purple.
You will still need do dailies to hit the cap...
Also u imply all purple u gonna get u will not sell for gold.(if i get a t1 that can be salvaged for less than 5k rough AD rather sell it for gold)
So it doesnt save you 2 hours~~ but way less..
The salvage merchant doesnt really boost much ur ad income,its more like it makes it kinda faster(still not so much) to hit cap on refine thats all..
Also i would still take the 10k AD,especially now with salvage and the extra daily its not even considered effort reach the refine cap ;/
In the end i am not saying salvage system is bad and not wanted,it is nice and good to have,but considering other changes coming and having player's AD income halved so much would either like old system not changed Or make salvage give you normal AD but slightly less than it would give rough ...
Again as i said consider all other changes as well...
If u dont want to do dailies at all to hit the refine cap u will still need to get 2-3 T2 items to salvage.(mb more depending on piece)
t1 salvage for less and u will need more items.
During DD lets say u do 2 runs thats 2 pieces of purple.
You will still need do dailies to hit the cap...
Also u imply all purple u gonna get u will not sell for gold.(if i get a t1 that can be salvaged for less than 5k rough AD rather sell it for gold)
So it doesnt save you 2 hours~~ but way less..
I implied that at worst -- that is, if you already hit the refine cap before the patch -- you can save time or effort that you put into dailies/professions and replace it with time/effort spent on Dungeon Delves. Heck, even if you hit the refine cap through Leadership alone, you can shift your tasks around to prioritize saleable goods rather than rough AD.
Like I said before, I'm not in love with the new system, but I don't see how it'll represent anywhere near a catastrophic loss to the earning power of the average player. Certain players who are already flirting with the rough-AD-refine cap will take a hit, yes, but they also gain more choice with respect to how they spend their gaming time. That's not necessarily a bad trade off.
The salvage merchant doesnt really boost much ur ad income,its more like it makes it kinda faster(still not so much) to hit cap on refine thats all..
Right, it's hard to say how much or how little the salvage merchant will boost the average return on DD loot, leaving the refine cap aside. But in my experience, most DD loot sells for peanuts.
In the end i am not saying salvage system is bad and not wanted,it is nice and good to have,but considering other changes coming and having player's AD income halved so much would either like old system not changed Or make salvage give you normal AD but slightly less than it would give rough ...
Unfortunately, the developers cannot give us normal AD from an NPC vendor. The point of the refine cap is to limit the rate of AD creation; NPC merchants create money out of thin air. All of the regular AD you get on the AH already exists (created by other players, either through pack purchases or through refining), and thus it's unimportant (to the economy) how much money you can make via the AH.
It really halves the AD income of an average player by alot.(will it be catastrophic etc i dunno would be too melodramatic term for me ;/).
I posted b4 too..
t1 pvp (5k-15k AD per piece)
GG items (30k-90k AD per piece)
Drake seals (rings easy sell 12k-17k AD)
DD box cant calculate really some items there u could sell from 5k-300k~~ AD thats the biggest hit...(was able buy full HV set just by selling 1 DD Box drop shadow weaver feet loool).
I guess its true devs cant just make salvage give normal AD (tho in other games it happens,i mean u can buy the ''zen'' (or how else they call it in other games) for ''gold'' u make by either killing mobs or selling to npcs)
instead for 6-10k rough AD getting 3k-7k AD for salvage wont mess up so much in game economy (or just increase refine cap to like 30k-32k AD )
Look at how much income average player looses compared to what he gets..
In terms of time,prolly what u make in 2-3 months u will now do in 10 months~~ that is a really big hit imo.
Still tho gotta w8 see how it will be after we actually play with the new system.
I really don't see the issue. Normal boss drops will sell for more on the AH, at least for some time, as long as there are new characters. If you used to sell a belt for 2k, well, since belt drops from bosses are really rare (except in CN), we will have a lot less belts on the market. And your bound belt will sell for 4k to the salvager.
If you have extra loot from bosses you want to salvage, well, send it to mules or other characters. The refinement cap is per characters, not per account. Or play two different characters during DD. Well, do what you like, but i think many people are exaggerating about what they earn with DD chest (sure, sometimes, i earn 500k in 2h too, but many times, it's just 3k), and vastly underestimate the economic consequences of a huge new rough AD source in game. It's like printing money. All prices will rise, since there are no new sinks.
The difference is you only have a 1 in 5 chance to get a boss drop where you always get one or two things from a DD chest. The huge disparity there should be obvious.
The game is bleeding people and this will make the exodus even faster. I was gone for two weeks and came back a couple of days ago. In that two weeks the number of instances in PE was half what it was when I left and the number of instances in other areas are even worse. There were 3 very small instances in Icespire Peak yesterday, a Saturday, during the Professions events.
It takes a party of 5 to do a Dungeon. Under the current system, you could at least have a good shot of getting a group during Delves because people were motivated to do Dungeons during that time, although it has been getting progressively harder as more people leave the game. It is very hard to get a group at other times. With the upcoming patch, that incentive is gone except for the initial gear up so some people won't do Dungeons at all and the remaining folks will be spread over the 24 hour period making groups very difficult to come by.
Easy and hard are subjective. In order to get something approaching an objective understanding of the effort required to do as you describe, we need more information. Here's the list of available Leadership missions at level 20:
How are you achieving the refine cap through leadership alone? Which tasks do you run? How many times per day do you refresh crafting tasks? How many Adventurers do you have, and what did they cost? For that matter, how long did it take you to level Leadership given all of the above?
Well, first off, it takes a LONG time to level leadership to 20. There is no denying that. I have no idea how long it took, but it moves at a snail's pace. I have 9 heros and 9 Adventurers which I got by selling shirts and pants and alchemy assets from the professional pack add on event.
Keep in mind I do 3 of each task at the same time
I am always doing Lvl 20 task Destroy Enemy Camp - 1600 AD. I run it x3 = 14400
Lvl 16 Fight off the Spellplague - 400 AD unsure how many times. I think it is 3.5 hrs so I do it at least 4 or 5 times a day unless I get a shot at two 1600 AD rare tasks. We will say 4 = 4800
At this point I only need 4800 more to cap and I still have an additional 3 slots to fill all day long.
There is at least one 1600 rare that pops up during the day (Lvl 13 Protect the Diamond Shipment, Lvl 19 Put enemy keep under siege, or the three lvl 20 rares). Any one of these tasks will net 4800 AD in about 7 hrs. If I do any of these tasks I hit my cap for the day. There is also Lvl 8 Give refugees a home that I will pick if I see it because I want the barrels right now and it gives 800 AD (2400 AD per time). Once I no longer need the barrels I probably won't run that task anymore.
If none of them are available I pick Collect Taxes for 800 or deliver metals for 1200. Both tasks take 5 hrs (I think) so they can be run 3 or 4 times a day. Lets just say I only do collect taxes that day I will get 7200 AD for running it 3 times. I try to stay away from Deliver Metals because it takes 3 mining claims for 1200 AD. I prefer to run Protect the Diamond shipment for 1 mining claim and 1600 AD (this one shows up a lot).
As you can see, this puts me over the cap easily even with no rare tasks (and I took all the low end estimates). In the last three days I have gained 34.5k AD that I can not refine due to the rares that popped up. It continues to stack up even though I usually grab a few tasks that do not give AD for rewards. I usually run Seek out Maps when it pops up to make sure I can keep on running Collect taxes (run it once in 3 slots and you get 6 maps).
The difference is you only have a 1 in 5 chance to get a boss drop where you always get one or two things from a DD chest. The huge disparity there should be obvious.
The game is bleeding people and this will make the exodus even faster. I was gone for two weeks and came back a couple of days ago. In that two weeks the number of instances in PE was half what it was when I left and the number of instances in other areas are even worse. There were 3 very small instances in Icespire Peak yesterday, a Saturday, during the Professions events.
It takes a party of 5 to do a Dungeon. Under the current system, you could at least have a good shot of getting a group during Delves because people were motivated to do Dungeons during that time, although it has been getting progressively harder as more people leave the game. It is very hard to get a group at other times. With the upcoming patch, that incentive is gone except for the initial gear up so some people won't do Dungeons at all and the remaining folks will be spread over the 24 hour period making groups very difficult to come by.
I think you're underestimating the number of people playing. Yes there is less people, but i see in PE a lot more players than you have in the main zone in star trek online, the other cryptic game, and this one is doing very well. So, all in all, the game isn't dying. It's summer, people are waiting for the new expansion and may take a short break, give it some time. Many people asked for a reason to do dungeons outside of DD event, now they have one. I think a majority of players asked for that.
I'm not worried about the game, all these changes will not kill it. It will just require us to adapt.
Comments
Running dungeons outside of DD hour will be profitable, while running dungeons inside the bonus hour will be far easier for obtaining gear you wear.
I like the new system.
It's funny that you complain that the farmers are not taking another players perspective but you have done just the same. There is a HUGE number of players who find dungeon running completely boring and the ONLY reason they do it is to get AD. There would be NO incentive to run a dungeon if you couldn't make decent AD. Not talking 4k or 5k ad from a stupid NPC salvager. The game will die because there a majority of players who only run dungeons for AD. So all you stop-and-smell-the-roses type players are a very small minority.
I can see your point about many multiple times. I guess for me it doesnt come up because i no longer have the time for 6 hour marathon sessions several times a week. Just too much life going on. (not a dig on anybody, i wish i did have more time for games lol).
On average maybe 3 or 4 times a week i jump on to play and will run a dungeon or two, go do some gathering on nodes, or run a few pvp sessions. Sometimes i log in and just talk to guildies or level an alt.
I think most people that get bent out of shape are the obsessive MMO-aholics that want to pour 8 hours a day into a casual game then wonder why they feel unfulfilled. Been there done that.
I dont care anymore if i am missing the perfect ring. I will still have tons of fun even if i dont have that ring that will increase my 3 stats by +7. (hell at the end of the day i could whip out my card and buy a full BiS set with what amounts to 15 minutes of my real life work time.)
If you're able to obtain the gear that you want in DD there will be no reason for people to buy the gear off the AH .
These are just fatuous arguments. there is something in it for you besides just love of play. Your reward is joy in your sons face, his growth as a person that is the reward for being good at parenting. Once you play poker for money playing poker without money makes no sense. how often do you play tic-tac-toe probably not often, because the outcome is a foregone conclusion- tie unless someone screws up. there is no fun in that unless there is some legitimate reward. reward could be novelty, accomplishment, or compensation. the first few times i ran dds the novelty was great, the first few times i finished dd's the accomplishment was a great feeling, the 40th and up times i was going for gear to sell to equip my toon. still haven't finished gearing up thats why im pissed.
And additionally, now that your AD income has been hatcheted, people wont be able to afford
skyrocketed prices.
I do like going to low level dungeon and getting gear for alts. I do like having the option to buy an item from a fellow player who had the time, I do not, to farm something.
Rank 4 Enchants drop frequently in the new zone. If it does become harder to make AD after Module1 goes live then the economy will adjust. If current Rank 7s for something you want are 100k and people are never selling because nobody wants to pay top dollar when everyone makes <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for AD then the overall price of those higher Rank enchants will drop in price.
I wish a higher end currency that we desired rotated on a Daily Dungeon so we would go back and run that particular T1/T2 for it. Variety ftw
A-What Im gonna do is that im gonna quit playing this game and I will search for another one from a company that has better ethics and cares about the player,not how much money they can squeze out from them
And you know what? It's more than you get from endgame instances in STO, and people keep playing this game. The new campaign system will also provide alternative ways to get (new) gear. And if you want enchantments, well, there are many ways to get them. Like legit dungeon runs. I got quite a lot of 7 and 8 since i don't skip content much.
Wards? Make mules.
Not seeing alternative ways to get what you want is a bit weird.
Min AD's you get is 1.000 AD's and max AD's you get is 10.000
This mean that items that currently is selling for 500.000 AD's will have a value of 10.000 AD
Have fun farming.
Run the fastest T2 they can, which will most likely be Pirate King or Spider Queen.
Most likely they'll get 3-4 runs in, which may give them up to 30,000-40,000 rough AD.
Of course people will flock to CN and Malabog's, farming these extensively. Now that more people will be farming these, the prices of Ancients will fall as more supply comes in the market.
Those are my projections.
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Most people weren't getting items worth 500k AD. Most people were getting items worth 2-4k on average, so in the end the Salvager may represent a net gain for them.
The people farming CN for those 500k items? They still have the advantage of farming CN for non-DD-chest items, which will rise in value because of the decrease in supply.
I can't say I'm thrilled about the loot changes in the new patch, but I can't see a lot of problems either. It seems like a mostly lateral change with respect to earning power.
T1 pvp items no sell(4-15k AD from a piece gone)
T2 GG items no sell (30-90k froma a piece gone)
Drake seal items gone (5-20k AD gone)
And on top of that DD gone.
So now only way to make AD is hitting the cap on the refine from rough diamonds (24k AD) which u already did from dailies/leadership
And raid 50 times to mb sth that will actually sell for some nice chunk of AD.
If it took a casual player 3 months to get full rank 7's in gear,get the armor/jewels he wants,get vorpal/soulforged,a companion and mb a mount now it will take almost 10 months.
and if he want go for more than rank 7 then gl.
They did not do this for the ''economy'' of the game but for make zen sales more.
If u wanted help the ''economy'' of the game then fix exploitable bugs in dungeons etc...
ppl can make 3 runs each DD only because they exploit/skip most part of dung ...
Also about rough astrals.....if u have 24k ~ each day then its not worth getting more.
If some1 asked me u want 5 million rough astrals or 10k Astral diamonds i would choose the 10k.So telling the salvage gonna help ur AD income and it will be nice i just laugh^^.
I understand where you are coming from. However, in MMOs and RPGs in general, there are economies built into the game. Those economies are a large part of the draw for some players. Lots of players are crafters or merchants and, yes, farmers. They represent a good large part of the player base. Already the number of instances throughout the game on Mindflayer are drastically reduced from where they were just a few weeks ago. It is much harder to find a group to do Dungeons with, even during Delves, than it was. After this change it may be nigh impossible. That means that all the hard work that the Devs did to create this content will largely go unplayed. I think this is a big mistake.
What is frustrating, is that the real issue is not BoE, the issue is that people are exploiting because the opportunity is there and do not want to kill "trash" mobs because there is no gain.
A better solution would have been to make the occasional rare item and enchantment drop happen by killing adds in the Dungeon. Another solution that was suggested is to make the quality of the end drop during delves be based on the percentage of Dungeon cleared. These type of changes would have reduced "speed-runs" and given incentive to people to actually do the Dungeon. Making things BoP reduces incentive to do Dungeons at all:(.
The cap isn't trivially easy to hit right now. If you are hitting the cap now, then it's pretty easy to stop running dailies to make room for Salvage income. At worst, you gain ~2+ hours a day back; you could use that time to run non-DD dungeons for a chance at valuable loot.
Absolutely correct. The keyword is "if."
I'd take the 5 million, which would give me ~200 days worth of the refine limit for zero effort.
I have a character that is over the cap every day just from leadership and he is beginning to build a nice stockpile of useless rough astral diamonds. I guess you could call it my main, but all he does is leadership and pray right now because I am working on other alts. He did not "Quite" hit the cap until he hit lvl 20, but after that it was ridiculously easy to do it with some decent assets. It also is not hard to get the assets as you level leadership. One of my mules hit 500k AD about a month ago just from leadership and praying. She still isn't lvl 60 and only has 5 slots open. The cap is not that hard to hit at all.
If I start taking my main a few DD runs oer day I might as well just sell off all my leadership assets because they would do absolutely nothing for me at all. That makes no sense since they all cost someone money. If this change goes in place then EVERY profession will be useless (the rest already are). Then we will have a lot of pissed off people who were ripped off for all those professional asset packs they bought.
That post does bring up the other side of the coin: To all of the people say "play for fun", you probably casually get
on here and there. Trust me that's OK, Im not knocking it. For the people who are on every day, the dungeons become
just an obstacle for attaining gear because you have played them 25 time or more each.
IMO a big problem was the lack of effort and creativity put into the dungeons. The graphics are awesome, but every
one has the exact same thing in combat: Difficulty is increased just by increasing the number of the adds. That itself
makes for a boring encounter.
I am really surprised they let the exploiting of dungeons continue (meaning not fixing the ways people are skipping
to the end and getting 4-5 in during DD).
Easy and hard are subjective. In order to get something approaching an objective understanding of the effort required to do as you describe, we need more information. Here's the list of available Leadership missions at level 20:
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Leadership
How are you achieving the refine cap through leadership alone? Which tasks do you run? How many times per day do you refresh crafting tasks? How many Adventurers do you have, and what did they cost? For that matter, how long did it take you to level Leadership given all of the above?
I don't ask any of the above questions to be difficult, by the way; I'm just trying to establish some sort of reasonable standard here. It's clear that various people taking part in this debate have very different opinions about what constitutes trivial daily effort.
t1 salvage for less and u will need more items.
During DD lets say u do 2 runs thats 2 pieces of purple.
You will still need do dailies to hit the cap...
Also u imply all purple u gonna get u will not sell for gold.(if i get a t1 that can be salvaged for less than 5k rough AD rather sell it for gold)
So it doesnt save you 2 hours~~ but way less..
The salvage merchant doesnt really boost much ur ad income,its more like it makes it kinda faster(still not so much) to hit cap on refine thats all..
Also i would still take the 10k AD,especially now with salvage and the extra daily its not even considered effort reach the refine cap ;/
In the end i am not saying salvage system is bad and not wanted,it is nice and good to have,but considering other changes coming and having player's AD income halved so much would either like old system not changed Or make salvage give you normal AD but slightly less than it would give rough ...
Again as i said consider all other changes as well...
I implied that at worst -- that is, if you already hit the refine cap before the patch -- you can save time or effort that you put into dailies/professions and replace it with time/effort spent on Dungeon Delves. Heck, even if you hit the refine cap through Leadership alone, you can shift your tasks around to prioritize saleable goods rather than rough AD.
Like I said before, I'm not in love with the new system, but I don't see how it'll represent anywhere near a catastrophic loss to the earning power of the average player. Certain players who are already flirting with the rough-AD-refine cap will take a hit, yes, but they also gain more choice with respect to how they spend their gaming time. That's not necessarily a bad trade off.
Right, it's hard to say how much or how little the salvage merchant will boost the average return on DD loot, leaving the refine cap aside. But in my experience, most DD loot sells for peanuts.
Unfortunately, the developers cannot give us normal AD from an NPC vendor. The point of the refine cap is to limit the rate of AD creation; NPC merchants create money out of thin air. All of the regular AD you get on the AH already exists (created by other players, either through pack purchases or through refining), and thus it's unimportant (to the economy) how much money you can make via the AH.
I posted b4 too..
t1 pvp (5k-15k AD per piece)
GG items (30k-90k AD per piece)
Drake seals (rings easy sell 12k-17k AD)
DD box cant calculate really some items there u could sell from 5k-300k~~ AD thats the biggest hit...(was able buy full HV set just by selling 1 DD Box drop shadow weaver feet loool).
I guess its true devs cant just make salvage give normal AD (tho in other games it happens,i mean u can buy the ''zen'' (or how else they call it in other games) for ''gold'' u make by either killing mobs or selling to npcs)
instead for 6-10k rough AD getting 3k-7k AD for salvage wont mess up so much in game economy (or just increase refine cap to like 30k-32k AD )
Look at how much income average player looses compared to what he gets..
In terms of time,prolly what u make in 2-3 months u will now do in 10 months~~ that is a really big hit imo.
Still tho gotta w8 see how it will be after we actually play with the new system.
If you have extra loot from bosses you want to salvage, well, send it to mules or other characters. The refinement cap is per characters, not per account. Or play two different characters during DD. Well, do what you like, but i think many people are exaggerating about what they earn with DD chest (sure, sometimes, i earn 500k in 2h too, but many times, it's just 3k), and vastly underestimate the economic consequences of a huge new rough AD source in game. It's like printing money. All prices will rise, since there are no new sinks.
The game is bleeding people and this will make the exodus even faster. I was gone for two weeks and came back a couple of days ago. In that two weeks the number of instances in PE was half what it was when I left and the number of instances in other areas are even worse. There were 3 very small instances in Icespire Peak yesterday, a Saturday, during the Professions events
It takes a party of 5 to do a Dungeon. Under the current system, you could at least have a good shot of getting a group during Delves because people were motivated to do Dungeons during that time, although it has been getting progressively harder as more people leave the game. It is very hard to get a group at other times. With the upcoming patch, that incentive is gone except for the initial gear up so some people won't do Dungeons at all and the remaining folks will be spread over the 24 hour period making groups very difficult to come by.
Well, first off, it takes a LONG time to level leadership to 20. There is no denying that. I have no idea how long it took, but it moves at a snail's pace. I have 9 heros and 9 Adventurers which I got by selling shirts and pants and alchemy assets from the professional pack add on event.
Keep in mind I do 3 of each task at the same time
I am always doing Lvl 20 task Destroy Enemy Camp - 1600 AD. I run it x3 = 14400
Lvl 16 Fight off the Spellplague - 400 AD unsure how many times. I think it is 3.5 hrs so I do it at least 4 or 5 times a day unless I get a shot at two 1600 AD rare tasks. We will say 4 = 4800
At this point I only need 4800 more to cap and I still have an additional 3 slots to fill all day long.
There is at least one 1600 rare that pops up during the day (Lvl 13 Protect the Diamond Shipment, Lvl 19 Put enemy keep under siege, or the three lvl 20 rares). Any one of these tasks will net 4800 AD in about 7 hrs. If I do any of these tasks I hit my cap for the day. There is also Lvl 8 Give refugees a home that I will pick if I see it because I want the barrels right now and it gives 800 AD (2400 AD per time). Once I no longer need the barrels I probably won't run that task anymore.
If none of them are available I pick Collect Taxes for 800 or deliver metals for 1200. Both tasks take 5 hrs (I think) so they can be run 3 or 4 times a day. Lets just say I only do collect taxes that day I will get 7200 AD for running it 3 times. I try to stay away from Deliver Metals because it takes 3 mining claims for 1200 AD. I prefer to run Protect the Diamond shipment for 1 mining claim and 1600 AD (this one shows up a lot).
As you can see, this puts me over the cap easily even with no rare tasks (and I took all the low end estimates). In the last three days I have gained 34.5k AD that I can not refine due to the rares that popped up. It continues to stack up even though I usually grab a few tasks that do not give AD for rewards. I usually run Seek out Maps when it pops up to make sure I can keep on running Collect taxes (run it once in 3 slots and you get 6 maps).
I think you're underestimating the number of people playing. Yes there is less people, but i see in PE a lot more players than you have in the main zone in star trek online, the other cryptic game, and this one is doing very well. So, all in all, the game isn't dying. It's summer, people are waiting for the new expansion and may take a short break, give it some time. Many people asked for a reason to do dungeons outside of DD event, now they have one. I think a majority of players asked for that.
I'm not worried about the game, all these changes will not kill it. It will just require us to adapt.