moon elves, sun elves, and fury of the feywild

spudvicious

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not all that familiar with 4e, personally, and most of my experience was from 2e to 3.5e. Forgotten Realms in particular, I'm more familiar with the 3/3.5e incarnation.

Anyway, it's great to see new sub races being introduced into game and all, but one little thing just strikes me as odd with the two coming up in Module 1. Maybe things have changed lorewise in the events that led up to the current situation in Faerun, but it still seems strange to me that according to the posted FAQs, Sun Elves will be the free race available to all, and Moon Elves will be limited to people who purchase Feywild packs.

Before, as I understand it, Moon Elves were, by far, the most common and plentiful of the elf sub races, and the ones who had most integrated with other races (with the wood elves being second, iirc). In essence, Moon Elf was considered the "default" elf race in the tabletop game. Does it make lore sense for them to be so limited in play?

Meanwhile, Sun/Gold Elves were, as I recall, blondes with year-round natural tans that had extremely haughty, superior attitudes and generally preferred to stick around with their own kind on their own island, leaving other races to themselves. Yet this is apparently the freely available race option that (presumably) lots of people will roll, making them relatively commonplace in the melting pot that is the city of Neverwinter.

Like I said, I'm not familiar with 4e or the timeline since 3.5e stuff, but this just strikes me as supremely odd. Have things really changed that much in the intervening time frame? I just don't get it.

I'm guessing the answer is going to end up being that these are what Cryptic/PWE figure will make them the most money, and I understand that, but it does still chafe a bit anyway. please feel free to correct/enlighten me.

ukatoenasni

4e did introduce some changes with the time-skip and the events thereof. Namely, elves are now broken down into two groups - the traditional elves (the old wood/wild elves in Forgotten Realms nomenclature), and the eladrin (more fey-esque arcane types, which is what the moon/sun elves became when applying 4e terminology to FR races).

Outside of that, however, it looks like the Moon Elves are still the most common Eladrin, with the Sun Elves being less common. Drow are specifically denoted as being a third sub-species of the same Feywild ancestor that spawned the elves and eladrin (with the Eladrin being more 'in touch' with that ancestor then their elven cousins).

So you're right, there is something a little weird going on there. Maybe it's because they could make Moon Elves more visually distinct from Wood Elves as opposed to Sun Elves (which share skin tones)? I have no idea. Wild Mass Guess there.

I would be curious what other explanations they could come up for it...

savagedeacon

spudvicious wrote: »

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not all that familiar with 4e, personally, and most of my experience was from 2e to 3.5e. Forgotten Realms in particular, I'm more familiar with the 3/3.5e incarnation.

Anyway, it's great to see new sub races being introduced into game and all, but one little thing just strikes me as odd with the two coming up in Module 1. Maybe things have changed lorewise in the events that led up to the current situation in Faerun, but it still seems strange to me that according to the posted FAQs, Sun Elves will be the free race available to all, and Moon Elves will be limited to people who purchase Feywild packs.

Before, as I understand it, Moon Elves were, by far, the most common and plentiful of the elf sub races, and the ones who had most integrated with other races (with the wood elves being second, iirc). In essence, Moon Elf was considered the "default" elf race in the tabletop game. Does it make lore sense for them to be so limited in play?

Lock at the stats of the various elves in game (drow included). While they apparently are not so different from each other, you will notice that the moon elf is the one that has the better stats for a caos wizard. Sure you can do one with the other races too, no problem, but it would not be so good.

Not only that but just because the moon elf is the most common of the sub races is also the race that most players associate with the elf image and they are considered to be the "true elves". Many players want to play with the "true elves" not some little known sub race even if that race is more rare.
It can not to make "lore" sense but it make sense if you look at it from a marketing point of view

nordveig

I never thought about it that way because I never play as a moon elf I play as a drow or wild elf. I think paying for a sub race is absurd, does anyone remember playing D&D back in the day choosing a subrace only for the DM to turn around to you and say "No I'm sorry you'll have to pay for that". You pay to play the game (ok you don't but I kinda hope you see the point I'm making, somethings I understand paying for but this shouldn't be one of them) you shouldn't have to pay to play something which should be available by default.

Just me being a geek and I'm not sure if this is different in 4e but wood elves are either seen as one big group or two distinct groups wood elves and wild elves. Wood elves just don't live in cities they just live in forests and woods. Wilds elves live deep deep in the parts of the forests where nobody goes, they're rare. Oh and wild elves are more feral and stealthy than wood elves.

I'm not sure but wood elves maybe just as plentiful as moon elves or the second most plentiful they just don't live in urban areas but it wouldn't be hard to come across a wood elf in certain wooded areas, but it would be hard to find a wild elf.

I just got thinking but it seems strange to introduce the moon elf when you are releasing a pack called the feywild. Moon elves are urbanised, it makes more sense that wood elves/wild elves would be more involved in this.

EDIT: Just doing some checking up and I found out that wood elves are actually the most populous members of the elven race, so actually it made sense for them to be introduced first. Oh and when I mean wood elves I mean wood elves being the group distinct from wild elves. Obvously though Cryptic decided to bunch wood elves and wild elves into one group, nothing wrong with that it's subjective.

ukatoenasni

nordveig wrote: »

Obvously though Cryptic decided to bunch wood elves and wild elves into one group, nothing wrong with that it's subjective.

Technically, Wizards of the Coast lumped them together when they wrote those particular sections of the 4e Forgotten Realm's Player's Guide. Cryptic is just following forward on that distinction (as there isn't a major mechanical difference otherwise in 4e between the two, outside of qualification for Background options and special feats dependent on those - all of which are optional).

Same with the Moon/Sun Elf and Eladrin classification, really. I don't see it necessarily as a problem to monetize some racial features (especially when those are released, at the same time, with free options as the Moon/Sun elves are), though I do find it odd that of the two, the Moon elf is the one you need to pay for. Technically the sun elves are the rarity there.

Gotta admit, I agree with the OP in finding that part confusing. I'd likely have reversed the two.

ocampusmaximus

I agree. At first I though Sun Elves would be the subrace to pay for. I was left scratching my head when I learnt it would be Moon Elves.

knightfalz

From the point of view of revenue it is best to make the most desired race the one to pay for. Since this game is run by a for profit company, there is no reason to find their choice confusing. They are simply banking on Moon Elf being the most desired.